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[MegumiAzusa]

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I just noticed/remembered something:
when harby shot at you and you get up and move away from the beam you just collapse... in the book where grayson is controlled by the reapers it was the same when they hadn't full control (to preserve power) when he acted as they wanted he felt good etc, but when he tried to go the other way he first collapsed, and later where it was basically the same he just got super tired etc until persuaded to go the way they want

Interesting...
Are there any other instances of a Critical Mission Failure in form of a collapse in the trilogy? Did it look the same when you stepped into the lava in ME1 (yes, you tried that too)?

Though that's more of an issue of the lack of animations and doesn't have much to do with the point at hand.

[MaximizedAction]

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...
Interesting...
Are there any other instances of a Critical Mission Failure in form of a collapse in the trilogy? Did it look the same when you stepped into the lava in ME1 (yes, you tried that too)?[/quote]
Though that's more of an issue of the lack of animations and doesn't have much to do with the point at hand.[/quote]

Okaaay then, so this adds more ambiguity to the post-Harbinger laser shot scenes in terms of 'literal vs. IT interpretation'. Could be Shepard collapsing due to his wounds, could be his being lured into indoctrination land.

[MegumiAzusa]

[quote]MaximizedAction wrote...

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...
Interesting...
Are there any other instances of a Critical Mission Failure in form of a collapse in the trilogy? Did it look the same when you stepped into the lava in ME1 (yes, you tried that too)?[/quote]
Though that's more of an issue of the lack of animations and doesn't have much to do with the point at hand.[/quote]

Okaaay then, so this adds more ambiguity to the post-Harbinger laser shot scenes in terms of 'literal vs. IT interpretation'. Could be Shepard collapsing due to his wounds, could be his being lured into indoctrination land.[/quote]
Wounds/willpower, as she can move forward and being shot at without problems.

[abnocte]

Didn't Shepard collapse in Arrival just in front of object rho?

Edit: well, sort of...

starting 9:40 aprox

Modifié par abnocte, 20 novembre 2012 - 01:08 .

[EXMEFan]

Its not an hallucination, or else the game would have said it was a hallucination. I can't believe people are this dull minded. The ending was the ending, just accept it. For it to be an hallucination would not make sense because of the invents that followed. A hallucination usually involves things that your mind already knows.

Also the old guy at the very end talking to the kid, and the fact they showed scenes of whoever survived being on a new planet, proves it wasn't a hallucination, why would they go that far with a hallucination, and end the SERIES on a hallucination? That would be dumb writing.

They made a bad ending, that made a lot of story mistakes before that, that made me already anticipate a bad ending.

Sovereign made the Reapers look like a God race, all unique in look and personality, come to find out they were made on an assembly line, and none of them had a real personality, not even Harbinger, he even looked like the rest.

[Restrider]

MaximizedAction wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

Reaper brains out of human goo. What next? Science fiction at least has to have an element of Science about it. Goo does not make brains. DNA does not make brains. Pumping human goo into terminators skull serves what purpose? Does each reaper symbolise purgatory? What the hell is going on Bioware?

I don't think the "human goo" becomes the "brain" of a Reaper, rather the goo is fused with some kind of Reaper tech we don't have a name for (seen somewhat in ME2) and the combination is used to create everything a Reaper is; cables, plates, armoring, firing chambers, eyes, mind, voice, etc. In that sense, a species makes the Reaper what it is.

I still agree that his seems slightly un-hard-scifi-y. It resembles what crazy ***** say when they say "when I eat him he'll become part of me".

It's like a fireplace horror tale. If anything then this has to be an oversimplifaction of what is a highly complicated and advanced mechanism....however, I'm struggling to see how complete goo-ification can be successful at extracting anything important (that has to be of complex structure). What this can server, however is as something like a medium for Reaper functionality, not the defining functionality itself.
...which still seems kinda dramatic...but hey, at least it stufficices the explaination that we are just part of their reproductive cycle and just the vomit that the parents feed their babies with (I mean birds).

Be creative.

Just a thought:
During the process of gooification, the nanides disintegrate a body. While they are doing this, they are also retrieving the information of that body (how all those molecular components were aligned, etc.). The more bodies are melted, the more information you get and you are somehow able to get the core information that make each race unique - the essence of the race. It's like the average information, you could say.
The goo, the material, is just used to construct the Reaper, which is then constructed following the information that was retrieved in the process of disintegration of millions or billion of individuals of each race.

[Ithurael]

EXMEFan wrote...

Its not an hallucination, or else the game would have said it was a hallucination. I can't believe people are this dull minded. The ending was the ending, just accept it. For it to be an hallucination would not make sense because of the invents that followed. A hallucination usually involves things that your mind already knows.

Also the old guy at the very end talking to the kid, and the fact they showed scenes of whoever survived being on a new planet, proves it wasn't a hallucination, why would they go that far with a hallucination, and end the SERIES on a hallucination? That would be dumb writing.

They made a bad ending, that made a lot of story mistakes before that, that made me already anticipate a bad ending.

Sovereign made the Reapers look like a God race, all unique in look and personality, come to find out they were made on an assembly line, and none of them had a real personality, not even Harbinger, he even looked like the rest.

IT is a valid way to interpret the ending.

Deal homeslice. unless you are one of those kids who kicks a bee's nest then runs away. If so...BM man. Those bees deserve better.

[Rifneno]

EXMEFan wrote...

Its not an hallucination, or else the game would have said it was a hallucination. I can't believe people are this dull minded.

It's funny because it's true, but not in the way it intended it.

[Restrider]

EXMEFan wrote...

Its not an hallucination, or else the game would have said it was a hallucination. I can't believe people are this dull minded. The ending was the ending, just accept it. For it to be an hallucination would not make sense because of the invents that followed. A hallucination usually involves things that your mind already knows.

Also the old guy at the very end talking to the kid, and the fact they showed scenes of whoever survived being on a new planet, proves it wasn't a hallucination, why would they go that far with a hallucination, and end the SERIES on a hallucination? That would be dumb writing.

They made a bad ending, that made a lot of story mistakes before that, that made me already anticipate a bad ending.

Sovereign made the Reapers look like a God race, all unique in look and personality, come to find out they were made on an assembly line, and none of them had a real personality, not even Harbinger, he even looked like the rest.

...or anticipates/hopes.

[EXMEFan]

Restrider wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

Its not an hallucination, or else the game would have said it was a hallucination. I can't believe people are this dull minded. The ending was the ending, just accept it. For it to be an hallucination would not make sense because of the invents that followed. A hallucination usually involves things that your mind already knows.

Also the old guy at the very end talking to the kid, and the fact they showed scenes of whoever survived being on a new planet, proves it wasn't a hallucination, why would they go that far with a hallucination, and end the SERIES on a hallucination? That would be dumb writing.

They made a bad ending, that made a lot of story mistakes before that, that made me already anticipate a bad ending.

Sovereign made the Reapers look like a God race, all unique in look and personality, come to find out they were made on an assembly line, and none of them had a real personality, not even Harbinger, he even looked like the rest.

...or anticipates/hopes.

Yeah because he totally anticipated that his crew would leave him for dead while he had a grand conversation with a God Child blue thing that comes out of no where in a weapon that was made by different civilizations, but some how linked to the reapers creator.

It doesn't even make sense for it to be a hallucination, its just a bad ending, bad writing, bad thinking on the part of EA/Bioware.

Its so bad we just hoping we were hallucinating lol.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EXMEFan wrote...

Yeah because he totally anticipated that his crew would leave him for dead while he had a grand conversation with a God Child blue thing that comes out of no where in a weapon that was made by different civilizations, but some how linked to the reapers creator.

It doesn't even make sense for it to be a hallucination, its just a bad ending, bad writing, bad thinking on the part of EA/Bioware.

Its so bad we just hoping we were hallucinating lol.

Indoctrination fully capable of making the subject see things that are not there (as mentioned in the videologs onboard the Derelict Reaper) or go into a full blown dreamlike sequence (as shown shown by Leviathan who traps Shepard in his own mind, in a place which is distinctly unlike anything we have seen before and then proceeds to tell us the Reapers have perfected this ability).

In short the Reapers can manipulate what its victims sees. Even if Shepards mind gives vision or voice to some of the things he sees, it is not his halucination or dream, it is the Reapers as done through Indoctrination.

[ElSuperGecko]

EXMEFan wrote...
They made a bad ending, that made a lot of story mistakes before that, that made me already anticipate a bad ending...

LOL @ bad writing argument.  Just because the story doesn't spell everything out for you in big, bold capital letters doesn't make it bad.  It's an open ending, deal with it.  Here's a tip if you're struggling with the concept - lateral thinking is your friend.

Thanks for bumping and fuelling the topic though!

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 20 novembre 2012 - 01:56 .

[EXMEFan]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

Yeah because he totally anticipated that his crew would leave him for dead while he had a grand conversation with a God Child blue thing that comes out of no where in a weapon that was made by different civilizations, but some how linked to the reapers creator.

It doesn't even make sense for it to be a hallucination, its just a bad ending, bad writing, bad thinking on the part of EA/Bioware.

Its so bad we just hoping we were hallucinating lol.

Indoctrination fully capable of making the subject see things that are not there (as mentioned in the videologs onboard the Derelict Reaper) or go into a full blown dreamlike sequence (as shown shown by Leviathan who traps Shepard in his own mind, in a place which is distinctly unlike anything we have seen before and then proceeds to tell us the Reapers have perfected this ability).

In short the Reapers can manipulate what its victims sees. Even if Shepards mind gives vision or voice to some of the things he sees, it is not his halucination or dream, it is the Reapers as done through Indoctrination.

You are just WRONG.  If the game was to do something THIS important and make you indoctrinated, they would have described the process much more throroughly, other than in game logs and extras most people who play the game won't read or care about, or take serious note of. 

I don't even see how this is a discussion, I would think people would be smart enough to know EA wouldn't make a stupid ending like they did just hang their hat on a vague concept like indoctrination.

The theory is just 100% wrong, and due to the fact it has to be argued and explained in a 1000 page EA forum where only the most hardcore people read, its just not true.

Also, if this indoctrination theory was true, that mean every single choice you made in the game, even the color coded choices, did not matter, because obviously you get turned into a reaper anyways regardless of what choices you made.

So if you believe this Indctrination theory is true, then you believe you played the game and made all these choices for no reason because that means no matter what you did, the fact was you was indoctrinated lmfao.


Why would Bioware spend money patching up the ending, other than revealing online in a simple press release that the players were indoctrinated?

You guys really don't make sense at all.  Its 1000 things that points to this just not being true at all, 100% not true.

[Rifneno]

EXMEFan wrote...

Yeah because he totally anticipated that his crew would leave him for dead while he had a grand conversation with a God Child blue thing that comes out of no where in a weapon that was made by different civilizations, but some how linked to the reapers creator.

It doesn't even make sense for it to be a hallucination, its just a bad ending, bad writing, bad thinking on the part of EA/Bioware.

Its so bad we just hoping we were hallucinating lol.

You don't understand this theory, the lore of the game, or the pathetic psychobabble you're trying to pass off as wisdom.  Go away.  You're beyond hope.  The only bad writing is your posts.  So stop them.

[ElSuperGecko]

EXMEFan wrote...
You are just WRONG.  If the game was to do something THIS important and make you indoctrinated, they would have described the process much more throroughly, other than in game logs and extras most people who play the game won't read or care about, or take serious note of...

They did.  You were clearly not paying attention.

[Andromidius]

EXMEFan wrote...

Its not an hallucination, or else the game would have said it was a hallucination. I can't believe people are this dull minded. The ending was the ending, just accept it. For it to be an hallucination would not make sense because of the invents that followed. A hallucination usually involves things that your mind already knows.

Also the old guy at the very end talking to the kid, and the fact they showed scenes of whoever survived being on a new planet, proves it wasn't a hallucination, why would they go that far with a hallucination, and end the SERIES on a hallucination? That would be dumb writing.

They made a bad ending, that made a lot of story mistakes before that, that made me already anticipate a bad ending.

Sovereign made the Reapers look like a God race, all unique in look and personality, come to find out they were made on an assembly line, and none of them had a real personality, not even Harbinger, he even looked like the rest.

0/10.  Try again.

If you NEED to be told something is a hallucination, you're not paying attention.  Or do you beleive that Shepard actually went for a walk in a forest three times during ME3?  Because the game never told you it was a dream, did it?

And calling people stupid when its clear you're the one who's lacked any serious thought about the subject is amusing to say the least.

[Rifneno]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...
You are just WRONG.  If the game was to do something THIS important and make you indoctrinated, they would have described the process much more throroughly, other than in game logs and extras most people who play the game won't read or care about, or take serious note of...

They did.  You were clearly not paying attention.

I know, right?  "I suck at paying attention, so this obviously can't be true!"  Epic.

[EXMEFan]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...
They made a bad ending, that made a lot of story mistakes before that, that made me already anticipate a bad ending...

LOL @ bad writing argument.  Just because the story doesn't spell everything out for you in big, bold capital letters doesn't make it bad.  It's an open ending, deal with it.  Here's a tip if you're struggling with the concept - lateral thinking is your friend.

Thanks for bumping and fuelling the topic though!

I am comparing the game with itself, ME3 had bad writing, very bad writing.  Whole concepts were thrown out the window, especially those involving the Reapers, and the way they were protrayed with soveriegned.  And then in ME 2 it was described the reapers were made from past species, and they were attempting to make a human looking one.  However, when you playe ME3 all of them look like the same squid-like robot.

This is just obvious laziness on the part of the ME3 writing team, and EA.

When I beat ME1 I understood everything about the game, about my choices.  When I beat ME2, I understood everything that happened, understood things I did in the first game, and how they effected me in ME2.  In ME3, my choices came only in random missions involving people who I left alive in the final ME2 misison, in which they all popped up in the same, go to mission see person from previous game, help them with a problem, they still don't join you because they have their own battles to fight, kinda way.

No choice I made really mattered in ME3 because it all ended the same way.

Also the Catalyst thing.  This was suppose to be made by each civilization that was wiped out by the reapers, but some how in a stupid way, it was a gate to the Star Child's decision making machine?  And some how he has magical powers to fuse people with robots?  

And then the Star Child explains perfectly how this machine, made by other civilizations and JUST NOW FINISHED BY THE CURRENT CIVILIZATIONS, works.  I mean, what the hell...nothing is ever explaiend.

The Star Child totally writes off Soverigns' speech to Commander Shepard which is arguably the best part of ME, by revealing they are just toys for some little kid.

[demersel]

EXMEFan wrote...

Restrider wrote...

...or anticipates/hopes.

Yeah because he totally anticipated that his crew would leave him for dead while he had a grand conversation with a God Child blue thing that comes out of no where in a weapon that was made by different civilizations, but some how linked to the reapers creator.

It doesn't even make sense for it to be a hallucination, its just a bad ending, bad writing, bad thinking on the part of EA/Bioware.

Its so bad we just hoping we were hallucinating lol.

...or fears...

Modifié par demersel, 20 novembre 2012 - 02:23 .

[Leonia]

A vision without proper execution is just a hallucination.

[Andromidius]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...
You are just WRONG.  If the game was to do something THIS important and make you indoctrinated, they would have described the process much more throroughly, other than in game logs and extras most people who play the game won't read or care about, or take serious note of...

They did.  You were clearly not paying attention.

Exactly.  The hint is in what you said - its in the game logs and extra dialogue, and if you can't be bothered to pay attention then you can't complain that you didn't know what was going on.

Its YOUR fault.  100%.  The game goes out of its way to explain what's going on without forcing it down your throat.  And thus people who want to rush the game and treat it like an FPS action game scratch their heads and ask what happened, and refuse to accept any other answer then 'bad writing'.

And honestly, bad writing is all you deserve.  You don't deserve anything better, because you didn't put in the effort.

[EXMEFan]

You guys are stupid, very stupid.....lmfao debating a theory that is obviously not intended to be the ending of the game.

They even have an old guy telling his grandson that it was the story of the Shepard. Basically saying it was a guy telling this story to his kid of a legendary hero.

You guys are just overly nerdy about this, there is NO indoctrination theory. All this comes from what some guy said on youtube. There are not hints in the game, the game is basically telling you that the ending is the ending.

If there is indoctrination, that means your choices didn't matter, because everybody was indoctrinated at the end, and thus you didn't have a final choice, because that choice didn't exist.

Bioware said that you will have choice at the end of the game.....that kills the theory right there, dead in its tracks.

They even spent money ENHANCING THE ENDING!? Why would the make an ENDING DLC if it was meant to not make sense because Shepard was indoctrination?

You guys are dumb beyond belief, this shouldn't even be a topic. Lmfao. I can't believe people really cling to stuff like this.

Modifié par EXMEFan, 20 novembre 2012 - 02:21 .

[Andromidius]

EXMEFan wrote...

You guys are stupid, very stupid.....lmfao

Bye.

[EXMEFan]

Andromidius wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

You guys are stupid, very stupid.....lmfao

Bye.

You the one who believes Bioware would address people's anger at the ending, and ENHANCE it, which takes up time and money, just for it to be the same ending that you guys are saying it is.

Its not indoctrination, at all.  You guys are just wasting time with this debate.  The ending is what it is, why would they go out the way and create the starchild and all this other stuff, just for it not to matter what choices you made.

Did you forget this game was about choice?  Then why would they make an ending you couldn't choose? Defeats the purpose of even making ONE choice in the game if what you saying happened is true.

The game gave you THREE choices at the end, this was intended to be the ending choice, the way you ultimately decide how to save the universe.

Not, oh we made you pick a choice, but guess what, YOU WERE INDOCTRINATED, but we're not going to tell you, we're going to leave it up to youtubers and forum trolls.

Lmfao get a life.

[Rifneno]

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - Charles Darwin and the perfect description of literalists.