80611 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

Rifneno wrote...

Isn't it funny how the literalists are on it like stink on **** when someone makes an error about the order of releases, but they can never seem to do it on points that are actually about IT?

Except that  the IT is just a pipe dream we don't care 2 sh*ts about until the devs confirm the IT is true in an upcomming DLC or sequel.

And before you ask why I lurk here if I don't care about the IT: I do so because I find it hylarious to read this thread. Some comments here are pure comedy gold.

[masster blaster]

Also hellor Hanar how have you been?

[CmdrShep80]

dorktainian wrote...

Reaper brains out of human goo. What next? Science fiction at least has to have an element of Science about it. Goo does not make brains. DNA does not make brains. Pumping human goo into terminators skull serves what purpose? Does each reaper symbolise purgatory? What the hell is going on Bioware?

i read this late last night. It's a science fact that a creature can "eat" another creature and use the biomaterial for reproduction

[Andromidius]

EXMEFan wrote...And ME1 and ME2 were quite literal

Okay, explain in a literal sense what the Prothean Beacons were actually saying.  Without any post-knowledge from ME2 or ME3.  Especially the first one.

Explain exactly what the Reapers are, only using ME1 in-game knowledge.

Explain how Indoctrination works, only using ME1 in-game knowledge.

Funny thing is, the more you look the less literal things seem and the more confusing and abstract they become.  IF you look.

[Rifneno]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Isn't it funny how the literalists are on it like stink on **** when someone makes an error about the order of releases, but they can never seem to do it on points that are actually about IT?

Except that  the IT is just a pipe dream we don't care 2 sh*ts about until the devs confirm the IT is true in an upcomming DLC or sequel.

And before you ask why I lurk here if I don't care about the IT: I do so because I find it hylarious to read this thread. Some comments here are pure comedy gold.

Speak when spoken to.

[Andromidius]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Isn't it funny how the literalists are on it like stink on **** when someone makes an error about the order of releases, but they can never seem to do it on points that are actually about IT?

Except that  the IT is just a pipe dream we don't care 2 sh*ts about until the devs confirm the IT is true in an upcomming DLC or sequel.

And before you ask why I lurk here if I don't care about the IT: I do so because I find it hylarious to read this thread. Some comments here are pure comedy gold.

You obviously do.  Otherwise you'd not keep coming back.  First step to recovery is admitting you're an addict.

And the sad thing is, there is comedy gold here.  Mostly coming from you.  We're laughing at you, not with you.

Modifié par Andromidius, 20 novembre 2012 - 03:24 .

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

Also hellor Hanar how have you been?

Hi blaster. I'm doing fine. Keeping myself busy with 3D modelling and talking to my mates on BSN, while sometimes taking a peek in this thread for the lulz. And you?

[The Heretic of Time]

Andromidius wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Isn't it funny how the literalists are on it like stink on **** when someone makes an error about the order of releases, but they can never seem to do it on points that are actually about IT?

Except that  the IT is just a pipe dream we don't care 2 sh*ts about until the devs confirm the IT is true in an upcomming DLC or sequel.

And before you ask why I lurk here if I don't care about the IT: I do so because I find it hylarious to read this thread. Some comments here are pure comedy gold.

You obviously do.  Otherwise you'd not keep coming back.  First step to recovery is admitting you're an addict.

And the sad thing is, there is comedy gold here.  Mostly coming from you.  We're laughing at you, not with you.

I just said the reason why I come back here is because I find you guys hilarous. That's as far as my connection to the IT thread goes. Do you understand? Or do you have reading comprehension problems?

[EXMEFan]

You guys are just too invested and nerdy over this, move on, the games over....

[The Heretic of Time]

Rifneno wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Isn't it funny how the literalists are on it like stink on **** when someone makes an error about the order of releases, but they can never seem to do it on points that are actually about IT?

Except that  the IT is just a pipe dream we don't care 2 sh*ts about until the devs confirm the IT is true in an upcomming DLC or sequel.

And before you ask why I lurk here if I don't care about the IT: I do so because I find it hylarious to read this thread. Some comments here are pure comedy gold.

Speak when spoken to.

Geez, such arrogance. Keep your smug stink to yourself. You have no authority over me boy.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 20 novembre 2012 - 03:29 .

[Rifneno]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Isn't it funny how the literalists are on it like stink on **** when someone makes an error about the order of releases, but they can never seem to do it on points that are actually about IT?

Except that  the IT is just a pipe dream we don't care 2 sh*ts about until the devs confirm the IT is true in an upcomming DLC or sequel.

And before you ask why I lurk here if I don't care about the IT: I do so because I find it hylarious to read this thread. Some comments here are pure comedy gold.

You obviously do.  Otherwise you'd not keep coming back.  First step to recovery is admitting you're an addict.

And the sad thing is, there is comedy gold here.  Mostly coming from you.  We're laughing at you, not with you.

I just said the reason why I come back here is because I find you guys hilarous. That's as far as my connection to the IT thread goes. Do you understand? Or do you have reading comprehension problems?

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Also hellor Hanar how have you been?

Hi blaster. I'm doing fine. Keeping myself busy with 3D modelling and talking to my mates on BSN, while sometimes taking a peek in this thread for the lulz. And you?

Been doing fine, had to write a history report for my AP world Histroy class, and been playing AC3/Halo  4. Still I come here and speculate, and would you like to see a little project an Iter worked on? His name is Restrider, and he did a great job.

[CmdrShep80]

EXMEFan wrote...

Its not an hallucination, or else the game would have said it was a hallucination. I can't believe people are this dull minded. The ending was the ending, just accept it. For it to be an hallucination would not make sense because of the invents that followed. A hallucination usually involves things that your mind already knows.

Also the old guy at the very end talking to the kid, and the fact they showed scenes of whoever survived being on a new planet, proves it wasn't a hallucination, why would they go that far with a hallucination, and end the SERIES on a hallucination? That would be dumb writing.

They made a bad ending, that made a lot of story mistakes before that, that made me already anticipate a bad ending.

Sovereign made the Reapers look like a God race, all unique in look and personality, come to find out they were made on an assembly line, and none of them had a real personality, not even Harbinger, he even looked like the rest.

Unfortunately you're too late. We've already accepted the ending as it is and are perfectly happy with that. As for hallucinations, they do not involve things your mind already knows. You could actually see or hear things that you would not have ever experienced before in your life. Also with hallucinations you lose the ability to tell if it is really real or not. When you are actively hallucinating, your mind will not tell you that you are. In fact an external person could tell you and you could end up not believing them because it is so real to you. It takes a while to learn how to cope with just simply recognizing that you are hallucinating in the first place

[Andromidius]

EXMEFan wrote...

You guys are just too invested and nerdy over this, move on, the games over....

You first.  Door is over there.

[dorktainian]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

Reaper brains out of human goo. What next? Science fiction at least has to have an element of Science about it. Goo does not make brains. DNA does not make brains. Pumping human goo into terminators skull serves what purpose? Does each reaper symbolise purgatory? What the hell is going on Bioware?

i read this late last night. It's a science fact that a creature can "eat" another creature and use the biomaterial for reproduction

yeah.  Can you now explain how the reaper gets its intelligence from melting together human remains with no nural structure or pathways present.  In fact how would the data be retrieved from pulped humans?  Surely they would need human brains.....oh guess what ,they've pulped them as well.  In fact if you pulped and animal/creature the only colour left would be brown (which ties up nicely to mass effect 3s ending) as i said...DNA does not make brains.  plus with the complexity of the human genome multiplied by the sheer number of people needed to be turned into goo.....  wowzers.  The sheer complexity of trying to decipher that many strands of dna would be impossible to comprehend.

Maybe we think too much.

[masster blaster]

EXMEFan wrote...

You guys are just too invested and nerdy over this, move on, the games over....

I could say the same for you. Why are you even here? Honest don't you have something better to do. I already sent a message to Bioware about this, so you can either leave, or be banned from the BSN. Have a nice day.

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

Indeed.  I think we may have a secret supporter on our hands.

Its okay, its safe to come out.  This is a safe place.  You can admit your true feelings, and have a little cry if you need to.  The endings hurt us too, before we realised what they really were.  It takes time, and effort, but we're in a good place now.  Come, join us.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EXMEFan wrote...

Bioware ISN'T backing you guys on this theory.

You want to know who they backed? The people who complained about how much the ending didn't make sense.  And you know what they did, CHANGED it, ENHANCED it, so people choices could matter more.

And you want to know what they did it for?  FREE!

So that kills your theory, I can't believe you guys are so stupid.  You are acting like bioware is supporting what you guys are saying,  They actually debunked the damn theory themselves by realizing the ending wasn't as fleshed out as it could be.

You guys are just bored desperate fans who don't want to admit they wasted 100 hours on a game where the choices ended up not mattering one bit.  The ending was poorly concieved and executed.

The game is not made up of some magic hidden goody of Shepard being indoctrinated.  The fact is the whole game he could have been a nice guy or an **** depending on how the users used him.

The game was meant for Shepard to be indoctrinated and guided by the PLAYER not the REAPERS......

God you dont want me to pull out the list of how much less sense the ending makes after EC. Let us just say that the Normandy pickup scene alone if taken litterally destroys several characters, including Shepard no matter how you choose to play him/her so there goes your repeated Shepard is the PLAYER argument out the window.

But anyway I am quite amazed how someone who claims to be a true fan of Mass Effect knows so little about how Indoctrination or this theory works. Indoctrination is not some magicl instant mind control, it is a slow process in which a persons motivations, goals and beliefs is nudged towads beeing in line with the Reapers. It keeps the person, his personality and everything that makes that person intact, he simply follows a different goal now. The person never realizes he is beeing controlled, at least not as long as someone dosent point it out to him. That was established just by glancing over the plot of ME1.

And Shepard is not Indoctrinated under the IT as i have told you twice now. He is in the process. His mind is still his own, but he is showing symptoms of the Reapers manipulations. The choice at the end is the point of no return where a wrong choice will send Shepard leaping of the slippery slope. You are still Shepard, more so than ever actually as you will be the one who falls for the Reapers tricks, not him.

Also once again. You claim to be a True Fan yet complain about exploring the universe (and most of Indoctrination stuff is not even hidden). When the ending came you were probably angry or sad. All you saw was  bad ending and yet despite claiming to be a true fan you never asked yourself wy it was bad ending or looked for an answer to that question.

But that is what the people of this thread, the people I see as the true fans of Mass Effect, did. Most of us felt anger or sadness, maybe even loud "What the ****s!" but we looked for an answer and what we found was a possible answer buried in data. Only a small bit of light at first the people of this thread, including me have played through and analyzed every bit of the three Mass Effect games, from graphic to soundtrack to story and what we found has given us hope, true hope, one that Bioware has yet to deny.

You claim to be a true fan yet dont even want to take the time to look up what the Indoctrination Theory truly means. I will waste no more time on you.

[TheWill]

its like throwing a suprise party for someone and telling them.. you have a suprise party for them... its no longer a suprise is it..?

if we were being spoon fed the idea of indoctrination happening to shepard... it would no longer be a suprise... though i have to say.. i had a really bad day today and reading some of the comments posted by EXMEfan had me in stitches... very funny ....your ignorance knows no bounds...

It seems that most people who disagree with IT at least have taken the time to think about it and have absorbed alot of information about the game from the game and other sources... and then have come to an informed conclusion on the ending... many with wildly different opinions which is great...

yet you have proven the case set by many against you... with your own words... its fantastic when people add something to the discussion or challenge it in someway.. but you do nothing but fan the flames that burn your heels... we are the fire that will burn away the darkness in your soul... embrace eternity....

[masster blaster]

Restrider wrote...

----------Preamble----------

This list has been compiled to enable an easy access to The Indoctrination Theory. While there are many other aspects, hints and signs throughout Mass Effect 3 and the entire trilogy that may also point to The Indoctrination Theory, the concepts presented in this list are - to the best of my knowledge - the most compelling ones. Take into account that my role in this undertaking was mainly the role of an editor, though many broader suggestions I found to be convincing, made it into the list. The vast majority of the points listed below were reported by fellow associates of The Indoctrination Theory and they deserve the correspondent gratitude.
The order of the list was determined through surveys and polls that can be found here.

----------The Ten Most Important Concepts Supporting The Indoctrination Theory----------

     
        I) Indoctrination in general :

          1.   Regarding IT, Shepard is in the process of indoctrination and the outcome is decided by the final decision taken.
          2.   The concept of indoctrination is a crucial part throughout the trilogy and nothing new to the player (link 1 and 2).
          3.   Rana Thanoptis is an example of how subtle and slow indoctrination can be.
          4.   Shepard knocked out for two days by a Reaper artifact that indoctrinated an entire facility.
          5.   Logs on the derelict Reaper illustrate the reactions of victims of indoctrination.
          6.   Paul Grayson's indoctrination show its effects on someone's mind.
          7.   Harbinger's smacktalk (link 1 and 2).

 
       II) The Breath Scene :

          1.   London rubble.
          2.   Mako in the background.
          3.   Citadel explosion (link 1 and 2).


    III) The Dreams :
         
          1.   Dream sequences and post-beam sequence share the same game mechanics.
          2.   Reality-nonreality transition after beam shot (post-beam, dreams, Geth Consensus).
          3.   Oily shadows and whispering.
          4.   Nightmares are mentioned in the Arrival by subjects being indoctrinated.
          5.   Chambers and Asari having PTSD as comparison between PTSD & Shepard's dreams.


    IV) Leviathan :

          1.   Harbinger/the Reapers perfected enthrallment to indoctrination.
          2.   Enthrallment uses memories of its victim.
          3.   Similarities between Leviathan end and decision chamber.
          4.   Zap sound as a sign to enter/leave virtual reality (link 1 and 2).
          5.   Note the file name of the sixth murder that can be found in Bryson's lab.


     V) The Choices :

          1.   Shepard on his knees happened only during/after some mind control.
          2.   The Guardian is aligned to the Reapers.
          3.   Control and Synthesis being supported by indoctrinated characters.
          4.   A swap in the colours (TIM = Paragon; Anderson = Renegade).
          5.   Huskification during Control/Synthesis vs. Shepard gaining strength while shooting the tubes.
          6.   Guardian losing it when you refuse ("SO BE IT!").
          7.   Decision chamber looks like a dialogue wheel from an aerial view.
          8.   Decision chamber resembling beam scenery (link 1 and 2).
          9.   Ambiguous end dialogue (Control/Synthesis).
        10.   Slide shows in Control/Synthesis/Destroy illustrate future possibilities, not facts that already happened.
        11.   Soldiers in Destroy fighting fiercely while in Control/Synthesis they are losing (note: no cheering in Synthesis).


    VI) The Kid :

         1.   Moves from one roof to another during an invasion (all links).
         2.   It can open a door that is marked as locked.
         3.   It survives a blast from a Reaper laser.
         4.   It is not seen by anyone else.
         5.   There always are warning symbols around it.
         6.   It disappears without making any noise.
         7.   It does not behave like a normal kid ("You cannot save me!").
         8.   The Guardian has the same form as the kid.


   VII) Anderson & TIM :

         1.   How did Anderson follow Shepard?
         2.   How can Anderson reach the control first?
         3.   Why did no one else follow Anderson?
         4.   From where did TIM shows up?
         5.   TIM's scars are only present at the end of the game.
         6.   Anderson may be addressing Shepard ("They are controlling you!").
         7.   Shepard is dominated by TIM and thus through him by the Reapers.
         8.   Anderson and Shepard have wounds at the same place (link 1 and 2).
         9.   Reaper horn played in the background (at 1/2 speed).


  VIII) The Guardian :

         1.   It has the same shape as the kid ( thus an extraction of Shepard's memories).
         2.   It speaks with femshep's and maleshep's voice.
         3.   Harbinger's line in the MP trailer (link 1 and 2).


    IX) The Beam Run :

        1.   Harbinger is pin-pointing everyone and everything but Shepard.
        2.   Harbinger does not destroy the Normandy.
        3.   Shepard survives a blast that should one-shot Makos and Gunships.
        4.   Harbinger just leaves.


     X) The Citadel :

        1.   The Citadel resembles events of the past.
        2.   You can find Coats dead on the Citadel.
        3.   The illumination without a specific source.

----------Epilogue----------

I would again like to thank everyone that has contributed to this list and if only a single person gains a broader perspective of The Indoctrination Theory through this list, the porpuse of this undertaking has been fulfilled and not in vain. This list may seem to be complete, but there are certainly going to be new discoveries in the course of exploring new content and I will try to adjust this list accordingly.


Version 1.0  (23.10.2012)

Here is his project he worked on Hanar. He did a great job. And EXMEFAN read this if your still here.

Modifié par masster blaster, 20 novembre 2012 - 03:34 .

[Andromidius]

dorktainian wrote...

Maybe we think too much.

Its a bit like trying to get a cave man to understand how Binary code works.  I imagine for a supercomputer advanced enough its a simple enough concept to 'read' DNA.

Though yeah, you're right in that memories aren't stored in DNA.  Hense the whole idea of Reapers harvesting 'the collective memories of species' is hilariously inept.  And the fact they only care about certain species, and not one **** about others.

Literalism.  Hahaha.

[Rifneno]

dorktainian wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

Reaper brains out of human goo. What next? Science fiction at least has to have an element of Science about it. Goo does not make brains. DNA does not make brains. Pumping human goo into terminators skull serves what purpose? Does each reaper symbolise purgatory? What the hell is going on Bioware?

i read this late last night. It's a science fact that a creature can "eat" another creature and use the biomaterial for reproduction

yeah.  Can you now explain how the reaper gets its intelligence from melting together human remains with no nural structure or pathways present.  In fact how would the data be retrieved from pulped humans?  Surely they would need human brains.....oh guess what ,they've pulped them as well.  In fact if you pulped and animal/creature the only colour left would be brown (which ties up nicely to mass effect 3s ending) as i said...DNA does not make brains.  plus with the complexity of the human genome multiplied by the sheer number of people needed to be turned into goo.....  wowzers.  The sheer complexity of trying to decipher that many strands of dna would be impossible to comprehend.

Maybe we think too much.

Supposedly the nanites that deconstruct victims into people pudding put into it a record of the position of every atom and its position.  So the Reaper uses the slime to create a perfect computerized reproduction of the victim in its neural network.  And then combines a few billion of them into one gestalt intelligence.

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Also hellor Hanar how have you been?

Hi blaster. I'm doing fine. Keeping myself busy with 3D modelling and talking to my mates on BSN, while sometimes taking a peek in this thread for the lulz. And you?

Been doing fine, had to write a history report for my AP world Histroy class, and been playing AC3/Halo  4. Still I come here and speculate, and would you like to see a little project an Iter worked on? His name is Restrider, and he did a great job.

Argh, I'm so jelly. I still have to wait 2 weeks until playing AC 3. 
UBISOFT, Y U TAKE SO LONG TO PORT GAME TO PC???

[CmdrShep80]

By the way I should add- the game was made by people who are/were doctors who also get their training in understanding and writing about things like hallucinations. The average person doesn't understand why a person is actively hallucinating and will just see the person talking to himself/herself saying things like that scene with Anderson and TIM. The person themselves often don't realize they're doing it either.

Also plus you're playing an RPG. That means the game requires thinking. All RPGs does not equal puzzles or massive inventory management but one common theme is that RPGs are games where you have to actively think as you play

[masster blaster]

Andromidius wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

Maybe we think too much.

Its a bit like trying to get a cave man to understand how Binary code works.  I imagine for a supercomputer advanced enough its a simple enough concept to 'read' DNA.

Though yeah, you're right in that memories aren't stored in DNA.  Hense the whole idea of Reapers harvesting 'the collective memories of species' is hilariously inept.  And the fact they only care about certain species, and not one **** about others.

Literalism.  Hahaha.

AC begs to differ:lol: