80611 réponses à ce sujet

[TheWill]

[[/quote]

Also once again. You claim to be a True Fan yet complain about exploring the universe (and most of Indoctrination stuff is not even hidden). When the ending came you were probably angry or sad. All you saw was  bad ending and yet despite claiming to be a true fan you never asked yourself wy it was bad ending or looked for an answer to that question.

But that is what the people of this thread, the people I see as the true fans of Mass Effect, did. Most of us felt anger or sadness, maybe even loud "What the ****s!" but we looked for an answer and what we found was a possible answer buried in data. Only a small bit of light at first the people of this thread, including me have played through and analyzed every bit of the three Mass Effect games, from graphic to soundtrack to story and what we found has given us hope, true hope, one that Bioware has yet to deny.

You claim to be a true fan yet dont even want to take the time to look up what the Indoctrination Theory truly means. I will waste no more time on you.
[/quote]


Very true.. you get a gold star

[EXMEFan]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

Its not an hallucination, or else the game would have said it was a hallucination. I can't believe people are this dull minded. The ending was the ending, just accept it. For it to be an hallucination would not make sense because of the invents that followed. A hallucination usually involves things that your mind already knows.

Also the old guy at the very end talking to the kid, and the fact they showed scenes of whoever survived being on a new planet, proves it wasn't a hallucination, why would they go that far with a hallucination, and end the SERIES on a hallucination? That would be dumb writing.

They made a bad ending, that made a lot of story mistakes before that, that made me already anticipate a bad ending.

Sovereign made the Reapers look like a God race, all unique in look and personality, come to find out they were made on an assembly line, and none of them had a real personality, not even Harbinger, he even looked like the rest.

Unfortunately you're too late. We've already accepted the ending as it is and are perfectly happy with that. As for hallucinations, they do not involve things your mind already knows. You could actually see or hear things that you would not have ever experienced before in your life. Also with hallucinations you lose the ability to tell if it is really real or not. When you are actively hallucinating, your mind will not tell you that you are. In fact an external person could tell you and you could end up not believing them because it is so real to you. It takes a while to learn how to cope with just simply recognizing that you are hallucinating in the first place

Your mind can not make up whole concepts it was never introduced to.  For example, I can't talk french or understand french in a hallucination because I don't know french.

[estebanus]

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

Indeed.  I think we may have a secret supporter on our hands.

Its okay, its safe to come out.  This is a safe place.  You can admit your true feelings, and have a little cry if you need to.  The endings hurt us too, before we realised what they really were.  It takes time, and effort, but we're in a good place now.  Come, join us.

Oh trust me, Hanar is anything but an IT supporter. 

[masster blaster]

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Also hellor Hanar how have you been?

Hi blaster. I'm doing fine. Keeping myself busy with 3D modelling and talking to my mates on BSN, while sometimes taking a peek in this thread for the lulz. And you?

Been doing fine, had to write a history report for my AP world Histroy class, and been playing AC3/Halo  4. Still I come here and speculate, and would you like to see a little project an Iter worked on? His name is Restrider, and he did a great job.

Argh, I'm so jelly. I still have to wait 2 weeks until playing AC 3. 
UBISOFT, Y U TAKE SO LONG TO PORT GAME TO PC???

Harbinger: This hurts you. I am sorry to hear that Estebauns.

[dorktainian]

Andromidius wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

Maybe we think too much.

Its a bit like trying to get a cave man to understand how Binary code works.  I imagine for a supercomputer advanced enough its a simple enough concept to 'read' DNA.

Though yeah, you're right in that memories aren't stored in DNA.  Hense the whole idea of Reapers harvesting 'the collective memories of species' is hilariously inept.  And the fact they only care about certain species, and not one **** about others.

Literalism.  Hahaha.

What about the 'Organic Battery' Theory (yeh its one of mine)?  In that they collect organic material from a specific race to use as an organic battery.  The CPU of the reaper is one of the Individuals from that race (in humanitys case...that would be shepard).

[masster blaster]

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

Indeed.  I think we may have a secret supporter on our hands.

Its okay, its safe to come out.  This is a safe place.  You can admit your true feelings, and have a little cry if you need to.  The endings hurt us too, before we realised what they really were.  It takes time, and effort, but we're in a good place now.  Come, join us.

Oh trust me, Hanar is anything but an IT supporter. 

Hanar is trust me. We will not say in public, but in the inside he likes IT, but doesn't want to get his hopes up.

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Also hellor Hanar how have you been?

Hi blaster. I'm doing fine. Keeping myself busy with 3D modelling and talking to my mates on BSN, while sometimes taking a peek in this thread for the lulz. And you?

Been doing fine, had to write a history report for my AP world Histroy class, and been playing AC3/Halo  4. Still I come here and speculate, and would you like to see a little project an Iter worked on? His name is Restrider, and he did a great job.

What was the history report about?

And what kind of IT project are you talking about? Is it related to 3D modelling? If it is, I'd like to see it. If it's another 50 minutes long video about IT, I think I'll skip it, no offense. I find 50 minutes for a YouTube video way too long, especially if it's only about a fan theory.

[Andromidius]

masster blaster wrote...
AC begs to differ:lol:

Don't even get me started.  I'm pretty sure the writers of AC are wetting themselves with laughter at how little sense their story is making.

I mean you get a story about a long line of assassins throughout history.  Nice start.  But no, let's throw in a present/future element, where its all 'memories' stored in some guy's DNA.  And then aliens.  Who aren't aliens but are really future/past humans.

Seriously, I want what they are smoking.

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

Indeed.  I think we may have a secret supporter on our hands.

Its okay, its safe to come out.  This is a safe place.  You can admit your true feelings, and have a little cry if you need to.  The endings hurt us too, before we realised what they really were.  It takes time, and effort, but we're in a good place now.  Come, join us.

Oh trust me, Hanar is anything but an IT supporter. 

Hanar is trust me. We will not say in public, but in the inside he likes IT, but doesn't want to get his hopes up.

He isn't. Trust me. I think I've had a bit more conversations with him than you.

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Also hellor Hanar how have you been?

Hi blaster. I'm doing fine. Keeping myself busy with 3D modelling and talking to my mates on BSN, while sometimes taking a peek in this thread for the lulz. And you?

Been doing fine, had to write a history report for my AP world Histroy class, and been playing AC3/Halo  4. Still I come here and speculate, and would you like to see a little project an Iter worked on? His name is Restrider, and he did a great job.

What was the history report about?

And what kind of IT project are you talking about? Is it related to 3D modelling? If it is, I'd like to see it. If it's another 50 minutes long video about IT, I think I'll skip it, no offense. I find 50 minutes for a YouTube video way too long, especially if it's only about a fan theory.

It's not a video, but actually a post. I will repost it again. Also people tried to move IT to the fan forum, but no luck. We stay here,

[Andromidius]

EXMEFan wrote...
Your mind can not make up whole concepts it was never introduced to.  For example, I can't talk french or understand french in a hallucination because I don't know french.

Exactly.  Now pay attention.

That's why the endings are constructed using things Shepard has seen in the past, or are modified versions of memories.

DA-DA!  And there you go, you should have been paying attention.

[masster blaster]

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

Indeed.  I think we may have a secret supporter on our hands.

Its okay, its safe to come out.  This is a safe place.  You can admit your true feelings, and have a little cry if you need to.  The endings hurt us too, before we realised what they really were.  It takes time, and effort, but we're in a good place now.  Come, join us.

Oh trust me, Hanar is anything but an IT supporter. 

Hanar is trust me. We will not say in public, but in the inside he likes IT, but doesn't want to get his hopes up.

He isn't. Trust me. I think I've had a bit more conversations with him than you.

for some reason Hanar and get along from time to time.

[Andromidius]

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

Indeed.  I think we may have a secret supporter on our hands.

Its okay, its safe to come out.  This is a safe place.  You can admit your true feelings, and have a little cry if you need to.  The endings hurt us too, before we realised what they really were.  It takes time, and effort, but we're in a good place now.  Come, join us.

Oh trust me, Hanar is anything but an IT supporter. 

Oh I don't know, people always rebel hardest when they are hiding something

[masster blaster]

Andromidius wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
AC begs to differ:lol:

Don't even get me started.  I'm pretty sure the writers of AC are wetting themselves with laughter at how little sense their story is making.

I mean you get a story about a long line of assassins throughout history.  Nice start.  But no, let's throw in a present/future element, where its all 'memories' stored in some guy's DNA.  And then aliens.  Who aren't aliens but are really future/past humans.

Seriously, I want what they are smoking.

I was just kodong, but I forgot what part of your brain stores the memorys of everything you did. shame on me.

[Vibez]

One thing worries me about Casey's prequel / sequel questionare. He expect us to juge, suggest ideas, and consider all possibilities based on the current game endings. Bioware wants to know what we would like to see now, at this moment, at this "state" of game life, in the middle of the DLC cycle. CH asks one very important question that tells quite a lot about their approach, in-between words. This basically rules out any major "post-ending" modifications some of us are hoping for. They wouldn't be asking, if they knew we haven't seen it all. They wouldn't be gathering our ideas, if they haven't finished showing off theirs (which would be crucial for sequel theme [and I'm talking about the endgame, not DLC's with sidestories]). This really scares me out because what he asked would imply that the product is actually finished, as some of the devs previously said. No reveals, no explanations... 

I hope I am wrong though. 

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Also hellor Hanar how have you been?

Hi blaster. I'm doing fine. Keeping myself busy with 3D modelling and talking to my mates on BSN, while sometimes taking a peek in this thread for the lulz. And you?

Been doing fine, had to write a history report for my AP world Histroy class, and been playing AC3/Halo  4. Still I come here and speculate, and would you like to see a little project an Iter worked on? His name is Restrider, and he did a great job.

Argh, I'm so jelly. I still have to wait 2 weeks until playing AC 3. 
UBISOFT, Y U TAKE SO LONG TO PORT GAME TO PC???

Harbinger: This hurts you. I am sorry to hear that Estebauns.

Don't worry, Masster. With all those awesome Skyrim mods I've recently downloaded, I'm gonna have my mind occupied for the time being. Plus, Omega DLC next week.

[masster blaster]

masster blaster wrote...

Restrider wrote...

----------Preamble----------

This list has been compiled to enable an easy access to The Indoctrination Theory. While there are many other aspects, hints and signs throughout Mass Effect 3 and the entire trilogy that may also point to The Indoctrination Theory, the concepts presented in this list are - to the best of my knowledge - the most compelling ones. Take into account that my role in this undertaking was mainly the role of an editor, though many broader suggestions I found to be convincing, made it into the list. The vast majority of the points listed below were reported by fellow associates of The Indoctrination Theory and they deserve the correspondent gratitude.
The order of the list was determined through surveys and polls that can be found here.

----------The Ten Most Important Concepts Supporting The Indoctrination Theory----------

     
        I) Indoctrination in general :

          1.   Regarding IT, Shepard is in the process of indoctrination and the outcome is decided by the final decision taken.
          2.   The concept of indoctrination is a crucial part throughout the trilogy and nothing new to the player (link 1 and 2).
          3.   Rana Thanoptis is an example of how subtle and slow indoctrination can be.
          4.   Shepard knocked out for two days by a Reaper artifact that indoctrinated an entire facility.
          5.   Logs on the derelict Reaper illustrate the reactions of victims of indoctrination.
          6.   Paul Grayson's indoctrination show its effects on someone's mind.
          7.   Harbinger's smacktalk (link 1 and 2).

 
       II) The Breath Scene :

          1.   London rubble.
          2.   Mako in the background.
          3.   Citadel explosion (link 1 and 2).


    III) The Dreams :
         
          1.   Dream sequences and post-beam sequence share the same game mechanics.
          2.   Reality-nonreality transition after beam shot (post-beam, dreams, Geth Consensus).
          3.   Oily shadows and whispering.
          4.   Nightmares are mentioned in the Arrival by subjects being indoctrinated.
          5.   Chambers and Asari having PTSD as comparison between PTSD & Shepard's dreams.


    IV) Leviathan :

          1.   Harbinger/the Reapers perfected enthrallment to indoctrination.
          2.   Enthrallment uses memories of its victim.
          3.   Similarities between Leviathan end and decision chamber.
          4.   Zap sound as a sign to enter/leave virtual reality (link 1 and 2).
          5.   Note the file name of the sixth murder that can be found in Bryson's lab.


     V) The Choices :

          1.   Shepard on his knees happened only during/after some mind control.
          2.   The Guardian is aligned to the Reapers.
          3.   Control and Synthesis being supported by indoctrinated characters.
          4.   A swap in the colours (TIM = Paragon; Anderson = Renegade).
          5.   Huskification during Control/Synthesis vs. Shepard gaining strength while shooting the tubes.
          6.   Guardian losing it when you refuse ("SO BE IT!").
          7.   Decision chamber looks like a dialogue wheel from an aerial view.
          8.   Decision chamber resembling beam scenery (link 1 and 2).
          9.   Ambiguous end dialogue (Control/Synthesis).
        10.   Slide shows in Control/Synthesis/Destroy illustrate future possibilities, not facts that already happened.
        11.   Soldiers in Destroy fighting fiercely while in Control/Synthesis they are losing (note: no cheering in Synthesis).


    VI) The Kid :

         1.   Moves from one roof to another during an invasion (all links).
         2.   It can open a door that is marked as locked.
         3.   It survives a blast from a Reaper laser.
         4.   It is not seen by anyone else.
         5.   There always are warning symbols around it.
         6.   It disappears without making any noise.
         7.   It does not behave like a normal kid ("You cannot save me!").
         8.   The Guardian has the same form as the kid.


   VII) Anderson & TIM :

         1.   How did Anderson follow Shepard?
         2.   How can Anderson reach the control first?
         3.   Why did no one else follow Anderson?
         4.   From where did TIM shows up?
         5.   TIM's scars are only present at the end of the game.
         6.   Anderson may be addressing Shepard ("They are controlling you!").
         7.   Shepard is dominated by TIM and thus through him by the Reapers.
         8.   Anderson and Shepard have wounds at the same place (link 1 and 2).
         9.   Reaper horn played in the background (at 1/2 speed).


  VIII) The Guardian :

         1.   It has the same shape as the kid ( thus an extraction of Shepard's memories).
         2.   It speaks with femshep's and maleshep's voice.
         3.   Harbinger's line in the MP trailer (link 1 and 2).


    IX) The Beam Run :

        1.   Harbinger is pin-pointing everyone and everything but Shepard.
        2.   Harbinger does not destroy the Normandy.
        3.   Shepard survives a blast that should one-shot Makos and Gunships.
        4.   Harbinger just leaves.


     X) The Citadel :

        1.   The Citadel resembles events of the past.
        2.   You can find Coats dead on the Citadel.
        3.   The illumination without a specific source.

----------Epilogue----------

I would again like to thank everyone that has contributed to this list and if only a single person gains a broader perspective of The Indoctrination Theory through this list, the porpuse of this undertaking has been fulfilled and not in vain. This list may seem to be complete, but there are certainly going to be new discoveries in the course of exploring new content and I will try to adjust this list accordingly.


Version 1.0  (23.10.2012)

Here is his project he worked on Hanar. He did a great job. And EXMEFAN read this if your still here.

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

Indeed.  I think we may have a secret supporter on our hands.

Its okay, its safe to come out.  This is a safe place.  You can admit your true feelings, and have a little cry if you need to.  The endings hurt us too, before we realised what they really were.  It takes time, and effort, but we're in a good place now.  Come, join us.

Oh trust me, Hanar is anything but an IT supporter. 

Hanar is trust me. We will not say in public, but in the inside he likes IT, but doesn't want to get his hopes up.

He isn't. Trust me. I think I've had a bit more conversations with him than you.

for some reason Hanar and get along from time to time.

Oh, I get along with him as well. He's quite the nice guy, as a matter of fact.

[masster blaster]

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Also hellor Hanar how have you been?

Hi blaster. I'm doing fine. Keeping myself busy with 3D modelling and talking to my mates on BSN, while sometimes taking a peek in this thread for the lulz. And you?

Been doing fine, had to write a history report for my AP world Histroy class, and been playing AC3/Halo  4. Still I come here and speculate, and would you like to see a little project an Iter worked on? His name is Restrider, and he did a great job.

Argh, I'm so jelly. I still have to wait 2 weeks until playing AC 3. 
UBISOFT, Y U TAKE SO LONG TO PORT GAME TO PC???

Harbinger: This hurts you. I am sorry to hear that Estebauns.

Don't worry, Masster. With all those awesome Skyrim mods I've recently downloaded, I'm gonna have my mind occupied for the time being. Plus, Omega DLC next week.

For me been also play Empire at War FOC mods because on Dec 1st there is an ME mods for Empire at war coming out for FOC, and on the 11th a halo mod. God fighting Reapers in space.:innocent:

[Andromidius]

masster blaster wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
AC begs to differ:lol:

Don't even get me started.  I'm pretty sure the writers of AC are wetting themselves with laughter at how little sense their story is making.

I mean you get a story about a long line of assassins throughout history.  Nice start.  But no, let's throw in a present/future element, where its all 'memories' stored in some guy's DNA.  And then aliens.  Who aren't aliens but are really future/past humans.

Seriously, I want what they are smoking.

I was just kodong, but I forgot what part of your brain stores the memorys of everything you did. shame on me.

To be fair, its genius.  But its still insane.

As non-innovative and samey as the games are, the background story is peachy.

[CmdrShep80]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Guys, less fighting with the trolls and more discussion of the stuff we're trying to bring up. All the good stuff gets ignored because of the trolls, which is exactly what they want.

actually it helped I think to remind us all about why we chose IT over the standard interpretation. As James said, it's not right...it looks pretty but it's not right

[masster blaster]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Guys, less fighting with the trolls and more discussion of the stuff we're trying to bring up. All the good stuff gets ignored because of the trolls, which is exactly what they want.

actually it helped I think to remind us all about why we chose IT over the standard interpretation. As James said, it's not right...it looks pretty but it's not right

What ending did EXfan even pick?

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Also hellor Hanar how have you been?

Hi blaster. I'm doing fine. Keeping myself busy with 3D modelling and talking to my mates on BSN, while sometimes taking a peek in this thread for the lulz. And you?

Been doing fine, had to write a history report for my AP world Histroy class, and been playing AC3/Halo  4. Still I come here and speculate, and would you like to see a little project an Iter worked on? His name is Restrider, and he did a great job.

Argh, I'm so jelly. I still have to wait 2 weeks until playing AC 3. 
UBISOFT, Y U TAKE SO LONG TO PORT GAME TO PC???

Harbinger: This hurts you. I am sorry to hear that Estebauns.

Don't worry, Masster. With all those awesome Skyrim mods I've recently downloaded, I'm gonna have my mind occupied for the time being. Plus, Omega DLC next week.

For me been also play Empire at War FOC mods because on Dec 1st there is an ME mods for Empire at war coming out for FOC, and on the 11th a halo mod. God fighting Reapers in space.:innocent:

Really? I need to get those mods. Empire at war is awesome. Especially forces of corruption, when you get the super star destroyer. 

EDIT: top!

Modifié par estebanus, 20 novembre 2012 - 03:47 .

[Rifneno]

estebanus wrote...

Don't worry, Masster. With all those awesome Skyrim mods I've recently downloaded, I'm gonna have my mind occupied for the time being. Plus, Omega DLC next week.

Oh God.  Skyrim.  While we're on the subject of trolls, how awesome of a trolling was it by Bethesda to finally give us a follower with a decent backstory and personality, add in some less-than-subtle insinuations between her and your PC and then make her unmarryable?
And the mods... I'm trying to find a mod that lets me get the Crown of Barenziah without resorting to douchebaggery for the Thieves Guild and all I can find it several dozen different retextures of the stones.  I wish modders put as much effort into story modification as they do into porn mods.  <sigh>