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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#48576
Rifneno

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

No but seriously, I have no problem with people believing in the "puzzle theory". I do have a problem with companies selling incomplete products however and forcing us to buy all the DLC first before we finally get the last part of the product that we should have had in the first place. That's just wrong. For that reason I hope that the IT or PT is not true, as I can't imagine a company being that much corrupt that they would do such a thing, not even EA.


I actually agree the DLC thing would be despicable.  But epic lol's at not imagining a company being that corrupt.  You must know less than nothing about business.

#48577
The Heretic of Time

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Rifneno wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

No but seriously, I have no problem with people believing in the "puzzle theory". I do have a problem with companies selling incomplete products however and forcing us to buy all the DLC first before we finally get the last part of the product that we should have had in the first place. That's just wrong. For that reason I hope that the IT or PT is not true, as I can't imagine a company being that much corrupt that they would do such a thing, not even EA.


I actually agree the DLC thing would be despicable.  But epic lol's at not imagining a company being that corrupt.  You must know less than nothing about business.


I know more than you think. I also know that companies can be quite corrupt indeed. However, I also know that there are laws and customer rights and protection. Selling an incomplete product under false pretences is against the law.

#48578
Raistlin Majare 1992

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EXMEFan wrote...

hukbum wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

Coming up with all this stuff when Bioware has said otherwise....

When did they?
Some links would be nice.


When they released the EC DLC

they obviously supported the ending in every single way, and closed all loop holes they wanted to close.

If somebody was indoctrinated, that DLC would have had it in there, there were many of you who had hoped it would been in there,  and it wasn't.

End of story. You can't interpret a story that has been resolved.

You guys give Bioware TOO much credit on this one, and its funny, you forget they are run by EA now.  This game isn't Baldur's Gate deep.

The endings were Paragon, Renegade, and or Neutral.....like they have always been.  You guys are making it out to be Resist Indoctrination, Indoctrinated, and Kind but not really Indoctrinated

And thats very stupid, because the game doesn't hint at this.............it doesn't even focus on indoctrination with Shepard, it does with the Illusive man, and you can easily tell by the way the illusive man was acting he was indoctrinated.

Shepard was acting like Shepard the whole time.....


TIM = Indoctrinated

Shepard = In the process of Indoctrination, how many times must this be said?

But anyway so Shepard never showed any signs of Indoctrination :?...:unsure:...:devil:

Lets see, where to begin...ah yes, the Dreams:

Nightmares by themselves, especially recurring Nightmares is symptom of Indoctrinationas revealed in Arrival where one of the persons on the Asteroid says over a log that he has recurring nightmares. Everyone on that Asteroid ended up Indoctrinated btw and Shepard spent 2 days uncounscious near Object Rho.

What do we see in the dreams, shadows, what some quite precisely would describe as Oily Shadows. The term Oily Shadows was also used by the Rachni Queen to describe Indoctrination back in ME1.

Then there is the music or rather the sound effect as you near the shadows, a whispering though the words are impossible to make out, not unlike Alien voices, you know like the codex on Indoctrination which states, "manifesting as Alien voices in the mind."

"May experience feelings of beeing watched," Shepards idle animation has him/her looking around in ME2 and ME3 (weaker piece)

"Buzzing or ringing in their ears." To quote James on this: "Do you hear that hum?" Also there is a hum audible at certain points in ME2 and 3, most noteably on the Derelict Reaper in ME2 which Indoctrinated a crew of Scienctists.

Then we got the kid in the opening, the same kid the Catalyst for some reason imitates. The Kid performs some pretty amazing feats. He moves from the roof of one building and across a sizeable area up to another building where he simply is standing and watching a Reaper until Shepard gets close. Then he runs into a building through a locked door and survives the blast by the Reaper.

Anderson also mysertiously never hears the kid in the vent and the kid disappears without a sound the moment Shepard looks away despite making noise in the vent a moment before. This is accompanied by a Reaper horn sound effect.

Said kid then makes his way to the shuttles where noo one seems to notice the kid as he climbs into the shuttle, except off course Shepard.

Cross refence with the fact that the Catalyst took this form and that Indoctrination can result in Illusions and guess where I am going.

And that was just the tip of the iceberg.

Also this line from Ashley: "How do you fight soemthing which creeps inside your head?"
Shepard responds with: "I dont know, but we have to try."

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 20 novembre 2012 - 05:25 .


#48579
Raistlin Majare 1992

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
It's anime.  No good can come of it.  It's like Reaper tech, but worse.

Blasphemy!


You need to watch some proper anime then.

May I suggest Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Darker than Black (just the first season).

Or if you truly want something good sit down with a Hayao Miyasaki movie. My personal suggestion is Princess Mononoke which i also consider among the greatest films ever created.

#48580
hukbum

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EXMEFan wrote...

When they released the EC DLC

So again no official statement? Just your interpretation?

EXMEFan wrote...

You guys give Bioware TOO much credit on this one, and its funny, you forget they are run by EA now.  This game isn't Baldur's Gate deep.

I don't give them anything. I'm just reading here because I think it's interesting.

EXMEFan wrote...

The endings were Paragon, Renegade, and or Neutral.....like they have always been.

There is no neutral ending ...

EXMEFan wrote...

And thats very stupid, because the game doesn't hint at this.............it doesn't even focus on indoctrination with Shepard, it does with the Illusive man, and you can easily tell by the way the illusive man was acting he was indoctrinated.

There is one scene where you have nearly everything that's been told about indoctrination from the codex. You know which one?

Again - I'm reading here about IT because I think it's interesting. Nothing dumb or stupid. If I want to see something dumb or stupid, I read topics from the so called "pro-enders" who try to justify the endings literal.

#48581
Hanako Ikezawa

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
You need to watch some proper anime then.

May I suggest Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Darker than Black (just the first season).

Or if you truly want something good sit down with a Hayao Miyasaki movie. My personal suggestion is Princess Mononoke which i also consider among the greatest films ever created.

Raistlin, you have great taste.

#48582
ElSuperGecko

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...
That line from Buzz, together with the datapad at the end saying: "Good job at finishing our crappy now buy lots of DLC!" was just EAware's shameless DLC promotion. They want you to buy all them DLCz lolz0rs!


That is exactly how I read that entire epilogue scene and the end screen myself.  (minus the crappy game part, of course).  Buzz deserved better than being a DLC advertising tool.

No but seriously, I have no problem with people believing in the "puzzle theory". I do have a problem with companies selling incomplete products however and forcing us to buy all the DLC first before we finally get the last part of the product that we should have had in the first place. That's just wrong. For that reason I hope that the IT or PT is not true, as I can't imagine a company being that much corrupt that they would do such a thing, not even EA.


Unfortunately, "episodic content" (along with online passes) is the way the industry is going to go.  ME, Final Fantasy, Fallout etc.  Piracy and used game sales are a huge concern for developers, so they'll always be looking for ways to improve a game's profitability by circumventing those people that don't contribute to their sales figures.

A somewhat cynical argument to use in favour of IT, certainly, but a realistic one. 

#48583
The Heretic of Time

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
It's anime.  No good can come of it.  It's like Reaper tech, but worse.

Blasphemy!


You need to watch some proper anime then.

May I suggest Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Darker than Black (just the first season).


Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is awesome. It had the same plot as Mass Effect, but executed way better, with a proper resolution. ;)


The Anti-Spirals > The Reapers

The Spiral Nemesis > The Catalyst

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann > The Crucible

Spiral Energy > Space Magic

#48584
demersel

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Am I the only one who considers Big O a great anime?

#48585
Arashi08

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Aw come on you guys! When you were ignoring him for like half a page it was so amusing to see him grasping for our attention. I mean he was straining, practically begging for us to respond. that was hilarious!

#48586
Rifneno

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

No but seriously, I have no problem with people believing in the "puzzle theory". I do have a problem with companies selling incomplete products however and forcing us to buy all the DLC first before we finally get the last part of the product that we should have had in the first place. That's just wrong. For that reason I hope that the IT or PT is not true, as I can't imagine a company being that much corrupt that they would do such a thing, not even EA.


I actually agree the DLC thing would be despicable.  But epic lol's at not imagining a company being that corrupt.  You must know less than nothing about business.


I know more than you think. I also know that companies can be quite corrupt indeed. However, I also know that there are laws and customer rights and protection. Selling an incomplete product under false pretences is against the law.


Fair enough, I misunderstood then. Still, those laws are much more malleable in company's favor than most people think. Which is why so many asinine movies are "based on a true story".

#48587
Hanako Ikezawa

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demersel wrote...

Am I the only one who considers Big O a great anime?

I haven't seen that in so long so I can't remember if it was good or not. Probably was.

#48588
The Heretic of Time

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EXMEFan, just stop.

You're just fueling the biased and negative view that these ITers have of us "literalists".

Also, if you believe the 3 endings represent Paragon, Renegade and Neutral, I'm really curious which ending is supposed to be the Paragon ending according to you. I also wonder how you explain the fact that the Control ending has 2 versions after the EC: a Paragon version and a Renegade version.

#48589
Arashi08

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estebanus wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

Just ignore it and it will go away...

Ignoring it is way too boring, though!

Yep Posted Image  Tho honestly I was talking to him too.  If we offend him so much then one piece of advice I could give would be to...oh idk...NOT read this thread.  I mean how hard could it be to not do something?

#48590
Raistlin Majare 1992

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
You need to watch some proper anime then.

May I suggest Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Darker than Black (just the first season).

Or if you truly want something good sit down with a Hayao Miyasaki movie. My personal suggestion is Princess Mononoke which i also consider among the greatest films ever created.

Raistlin, you have great taste.


Thanks, I got into anime when I picked up princess Mononoke by coincedence. Since then i have watched all of Miyasaki´s movies, quite a few other Ghibli movies (Grave of the Fireflies is so sad :() and plenty of episodic anime.

Oh, right I can add Code Geass R1 and R2 to the recomendations above.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 20 novembre 2012 - 05:35 .


#48591
spotlessvoid

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So if you're an EX ME fan, aren't you that guy doing the slow creep as you drive by your ex's house?

"Doing it with the lights on now, ****? Don't mind looking at his body? I love you so much though"

#48592
Hanako Ikezawa

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
You need to watch some proper anime then.

May I suggest Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Darker than Black (just the first season).

Or if you truly want something good sit down with a Hayao Miyasaki movie. My personal suggestion is Princess Mononoke which i also consider among the greatest films ever created.

Raistlin, you have great taste.


Thanks, I got into anime when I picked up princess Mononoke by coincedence. Since then i have watched all of Miyasaki´s movies, quite a few other Ghibli movies (Grave of the Fireflies is so sad :() and plenty of episodic anime.

Oh, right I can add Code Geass S1 and S2 to the recomendations above.

Yes, you can add my favorite anime of all time to your reccomendations, though its R1 and R2.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 20 novembre 2012 - 05:34 .


#48593
Rifneno

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Once again, Spotlessvoid wins the thread.

#48594
Raistlin Majare 1992

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spotlessvoid wrote...

So if you're an EX ME fan, aren't you that guy doing the slow creep as you drive by your ex's house?

"Doing it with the lights on now, ****? Don't mind looking at his body? I love you so much though"


Relax Spotless, that is uncalled for.

Just be polite.

#48595
ElSuperGecko

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...
EXMEFan, just stop.

You're just fueling the biased and negative view that these ITers have of us "literalists".


Oh come on Hanar, please give us a little credit.

We can tell the difference between someone who's obviouslly trolling for attention and someone who simply believes the endings are what they are. 

One we laugh at.  The other we may disagree with, but we can still enjoy a good-natured debate about the game (and the endings) with them.

#48596
Raistlin Majare 1992

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
You need to watch some proper anime then.

May I suggest Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Darker than Black (just the first season).

Or if you truly want something good sit down with a Hayao Miyasaki movie. My personal suggestion is Princess Mononoke which i also consider among the greatest films ever created.

Raistlin, you have great taste.


Thanks, I got into anime when I picked up princess Mononoke by coincedence. Since then i have watched all of Miyasaki´s movies, quite a few other Ghibli movies (Grave of the Fireflies is so sad :() and plenty of episodic anime.

Oh, right I can add Code Geass S1 and S2 to the recomendations above.

Yes, you can add my favorite anime of all time to your reccomendations, though its R1 and R2.


Oh right, thanks.

#48597
spotlessvoid

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

So if you're an EX ME fan, aren't you that guy doing the slow creep as you drive by your ex's house?

"Doing it with the lights on now, ****? Don't mind looking at his body? I love you so much though"


Relax Spotless, that is uncalled for.

Just be polite.




Relaxed? Definitely
Polite? Sometimes

#48598
Raistlin Majare 1992

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spotlessvoid wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

So if you're an EX ME fan, aren't you that guy doing the slow creep as you drive by your ex's house?

"Doing it with the lights on now, ****? Don't mind looking at his body? I love you so much though"


Relax Spotless, that is uncalled for.

Just be polite.




Relaxed? Definitely
Polite? Sometimes


Ah dident realize it was a reference :pinched:

#48599
IronSabbath88

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 Did anyone ever realize that when you have low EMS and your squaddies get vaporized by Harby, I thought I distinctly heard a "They can't help you." Of course, like the same "Serve us" it's pure speculation... but god damn if it doesn't sound almost like a subliminal message.
Of course this could be akin to listening to record's backwards and hearing messages so I could be crazy.. :D

#48600
Rifneno

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IronSabbath88 wrote...

 Did anyone ever realize that when you have low EMS and your squaddies get vaporized by Harby, I thought I distinctly heard a "They can't help you." Of course, like the same "Serve us" it's pure speculation... but god damn if it doesn't sound almost like a subliminal message.
Of course this could be akin to listening to record's backwards and hearing messages so I could be crazy.. :D


Aye.  As much as I'd like to, I can't take the distorted Reaper voices seriously as anything until we have something to go on that makes it absolutely clear what they're saying.  It's hilariously easy the human mind to trick itself into hearing things that aren't there.  There doesn't have to be any conscious bias, hell, there probably doesn't have to be any subconscious bias.  It's just the way we're programmed.  For instance, anyone remember that infamous face on Mars?  If not, check it out.

Posted Image

Holy ****, there's a face carved on Mars!  Aliens or some ****!  Someone call Tom Cruise and tell him he's not quite as retarded as we told him as he is (but still totally as much of an ass)!  ...  So anyway, that was taken in 1976.  Here's a shot of the same thing decades later with way the hell better technology.

Posted Image

How did we think that thing was a face from a blurrier photo?  That's just the way our minds work.  It tries to find patterns and similarities where it can, even when it's blowing smoke out its ass.  And that's why, sadly, those distorted voices won't be serious evidence either way until they're not so distorted.