80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromidius]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I'm off for now, guys. TTYL

Me too, though I'll be back later.

Have fun everyone.

[Wayning_Star]

estebanus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Ugh, why are the people on my side of the fence such dumbasses? ;

Don't worry about it Hanar.  It's not as though this is some kind of literalist vs IT'er war.  We each have our opinions, we can disagree about the endings, have our own interpretations and still discuss them reasonably, that's fine.

Our friend under the bridge over there doesn't want to do anything of the sort.  It just wants to try and annoy people.  I assume it gets off on it.

That's true. But lets be honest here; wouldn't you find some form of sadistic pleasure if it turns out you're right and the others are wrong? That small sense of superiority that you get from simply being right while the other is wrong, don't you ever have that feeling? I won't lie about it, I do.

While nothing is certain until we had our very last piece of DLC for ME3, I have to admit that once the final piece of DLC is released and it turns out that there is no such thing as Shepard being indoctrinated, I'll have a short little sadistic laugh and make a tongue-in-cheek "I told you so" comment here in this thread.

If anyone says that they don't get that feeling, I'd immediately call BS. That's just what humans do. However, that desn't mean they should run around the streets yelling how stupid everyone else but them is. That's just being a regular douche.

Yeah, I hate Mayan calender makers too..lol

[Humakt83]

byne wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

and it means they don't know anything about story, literature, gaming, or the development process. 

And what exactly makes you believe that you do know anything about story, literature, gaming or their development process?

Because he's a psychology major, duh! That makes him right about everything! Try to keep up, here.

Bet he's also a surgeon, spacecraft engineer, president of Molvania and Satan's left nut.

Modifié par Humakt83, 21 novembre 2012 - 04:40 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

byne wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

and it means they don't know anything about story, literature, gaming, or the development process. 

And what exactly makes you believe that you do know anything about story, literature, gaming or their development process?

Because he's a psychology major, duh! That makes him right about everything! Try to keep up, here.

Yeah it is not like some of us here do writing for a hobby and are taking an education towards becoming a Videogame designer...

[estebanus]

Wayning_Star wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Ugh, why are the people on my side of the fence such dumbasses? ;

Don't worry about it Hanar.  It's not as though this is some kind of literalist vs IT'er war.  We each have our opinions, we can disagree about the endings, have our own interpretations and still discuss them reasonably, that's fine.

Our friend under the bridge over there doesn't want to do anything of the sort.  It just wants to try and annoy people.  I assume it gets off on it.

That's true. But lets be honest here; wouldn't you find some form of sadistic pleasure if it turns out you're right and the others are wrong? That small sense of superiority that you get from simply being right while the other is wrong, don't you ever have that feeling? I won't lie about it, I do.

While nothing is certain until we had our very last piece of DLC for ME3, I have to admit that once the final piece of DLC is released and it turns out that there is no such thing as Shepard being indoctrinated, I'll have a short little sadistic laugh and make a tongue-in-cheek "I told you so" comment here in this thread.

If anyone says that they don't get that feeling, I'd immediately call BS. That's just what humans do. However, that desn't mean they should run around the streets yelling how stupid everyone else but them is. That's just being a regular douche.

Yeah, I hate Mayan calender makers too..lol

The people who believe that crap are mad. 

[EXMEFan]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

and it means they don't know anything about story, literature, gaming, or the development process. 

And what exactly makes you believe that you do know anything about story, literature, gaming or their development process?

Because if the whole game you were CONTROLLED by something, the story would have revealed it, just like it revealed every other major event.

It wouldn't have you play the game, a game based on choice, only not to tell you that you were being controlled by the reapers.

There isn't even a reason NOT to divuldge that information.  Most gamers didn't even GET indoctrination from the game, Bioware are way better writers than that.

This IT stuff is only followed by a few hundred people out of millions of people who played the game.  

EA is about SELLING things and MAKING money, and they would not hang their hat on some vague plot twist thats never explained or that most people wouldn't even think about.

Also they PATCHED the ending to EXPLAIN things better, and one thing you think they WOULD HAVE EXPLAINED would be the fact that Shepard was indoctrinated.  

Also they already played the indoctrinated card with the Illusive Man, so if you were indoctrinated, why would your character help Illusive Man break out of it?  Why would they even have a confrontation if they were under the same secret literary device?

[ElSuperGecko]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
That's true. But lets be honest here; wouldn't you find some form of sadistic pleasure if it turns out you're right and the others are wrong? That small sense of superiority that you get from simply being right while the other is wrong, don't you ever have that feeling? I won't lie about it, I do.

While nothing is certain until we had our very last piece of DLC for ME3, I have to admit that once the final piece of DLC is released and it turns out that there is no such thing as Shepard being indoctrinated, I'll have a short little sadistic laugh and make a tongue-in-cheek "I told you so" comment here in this thread.

Of course I'd feel some kind of satisfaction if my suspicions were proved to be correct over time.  Who wouldn't?

That's possibly why there's so much division on the BSN at the moment.  Not just IT vs Literalist, but Destroy vs Control vs Synthesis vs Refuse... everyone wants their beliefs to be well founded, to be correct.  And of course, no one likes to be duped, to have the wool pulled over their eyes.  We can't ALL be right.  Or even if we can, we can't all be EQUALLY right.

Personally, I'm more than happy to listen to any arguments regarding ME3's endings, literal, speculative, whatever.  I'm happy to debate the varying merits of Red/Green/Blue/Giving Up all day long, and argue the cases for and against each of them.  I have my own conclusions, that I'm comfortable with.  If they prove to be unfounded, c'est la vie.  But an open ending is meant to be discussed, meant to be talked about, and belittling people for their interpretation of an open ending - whatever it may be - is little more than childish trolling.

I'm not beyond indulging in a little bit of childishness of my own, of course.  Far from it.  But generally I'll leave each to their own, unless they openly and deliberately challenge my own interpretation.  At which point, they become fair game.

[EXMEFan]

You guys are just dumb, and I am letting you know that you are stupid, and you probably look too much into every game.

Its JUST A FREAKING GAME, it has no meaning beyond what the game gives you. You can make up lives for people who don't exist. That Turian that wanted the Quarian? Guess what, they don't exist, so you can't wonder if he got her or not, because if the game didn't explain it, it didn't happen, because these are AIs and not real people.

You can discuss it on a WHAT IF basis, but you can't go around saying things are true that the game hasn't said were true. These are real events....they don't exist until you play the game and they are revealed to you. If its not revealed to you, its not part of the game.

[The Heretic of Time]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ah hello again Heretic, just waited for you to  show up.

Had to leave after asking about your favorite Legend of Zelda yesterday and looking up your reoky I found it curious. Mostly that you call Skyward Sword meh, as for me it is one of my favorites, a tie actually for best between it, Twilight Princess and Ocarina.

I didn't like Zelda because it didn't have a real living, breathing world like the other Zeldas. The only interesting area in the overworld was Skyloft. The surface areas didn't even feel like overworld areas to me, but actually part of the dungeon. The fact that you have to solve puzzles to continue in each particular area gave me that feeling. Though it might sound strange, I actually didn't like that.

What I mostly didn't like is that the overworld lacks any civilisations other than the skyloftians. We only saw a goron here and there and a few random NPCs. Folks like the kiwki's didn't even have their own village or palace, like the deku scrubs used to have in Zelda Majora's Mask. It made Skyward Sword feel death and empty to me.

I did like the motion controls, though I could also live without them. The motion controls certainly aren't a must for me.

Twilight Princess I like for 3 reasons. I liked the darker visuals style it had, I loved the soundtrack and Midna is the best companion in a Legend of Zelda game, to me at least.

I like Twilight Princess because it was the first true 3D Zelda game after Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. "But what about The Windwaker?" I hear you say. Well, I loved The Windwaker also, but it did not give me that same classical Zelda feeling like Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask did. Twilight Princess did give me that feeling again.

Ocarina is just the classic and I probably have no small part of nostalgia towards it.

Ocarina of Time is just simply the best Zelda game ever made, period.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EXMEFan wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

and it means they don't know anything about story, literature, gaming, or the development process. 

And what exactly makes you believe that you do know anything about story, literature, gaming or their development process?

Because if the whole game you were CONTROLLED by something, the story would have revealed it, just like it revealed every other major event.

It wouldn't have you play the game, a game based on choice, only not to tell you that you were being controlled by the reapers.

There isn't even a reason NOT to divuldge that information.  Most gamers didn't even GET indoctrination from the game, Bioware are way better writers than that.

This IT stuff is only followed by a few hundred people out of millions of people who played the game.  

EA is about SELLING things and MAKING money, and they would not hang their hat on some vague plot twist thats never explained or that most people wouldn't even think about.

Also they PATCHED the ending to EXPLAIN things better, and one thing you think they WOULD HAVE EXPLAINED would be the fact that Shepard was indoctrinated.  

Also they already played the indoctrinated card with the Illusive Man, so if you were indoctrinated, why would your character help Illusive Man break out of it?  Why would they even have a confrontation if they were under the same secret literary device?

Sigh...

1: The ending makes even less sense after the EC as the Catalyst has massive holes in his logic and explanation which do not match what we actually see. The entire Normandy pickup secne also destroys several characters, including Shepard as no matter what Shepard no played you led a litteral suicide on the Collector Base. The stakes now are a million times what they were then, but Shepard sends his squad away inlcuding EDI who faces no danger in charging alongside him (remember everything that makes EDi who she is is onboard the Normandy)

2: Read up on IT damnit. IT quite clearly states Shepard is not Indoctrinated, he is only in the process. The choice is the turning point, he is not controlled up until the point where he makes a choice.

[clennon8]

My momma always said "Stupid is as Stupid does."

[Wayning_Star]

EXMEFan wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

and it means they don't know anything about story, literature, gaming, or the development process. 

And what exactly makes you believe that you do know anything about story, literature, gaming or their development process?

Because if the whole game you were CONTROLLED by something, the story would have revealed it, just like it revealed every other major event.

It wouldn't have you play the game, a game based on choice, only not to tell you that you were being controlled by the reapers.

There isn't even a reason NOT to divuldge that information.  Most gamers didn't even GET indoctrination from the game, Bioware are way better writers than that.

This IT stuff is only followed by a few hundred people out of millions of people who played the game.  

EA is about SELLING things and MAKING money, and they would not hang their hat on some vague plot twist thats never explained or that most people wouldn't even think about.

Also they PATCHED the ending to EXPLAIN things better, and one thing you think they WOULD HAVE EXPLAINED would be the fact that Shepard was indoctrinated.  

Also they already played the indoctrinated card with the Illusive Man, so if you were indoctrinated, why would your character help Illusive Man break out of it?  Why would they even have a confrontation if they were under the same secret literary device?

but, its another thing to harvest the IT crowd as well. They're welcome to their construction. I think they worked hard to create that idea, and should get an A for effort, not matter how bad I disagree with that idea. From that arguement, it begs the question why doesn't BiowarEa challenge the concept?  There is a nasty kind of misery to it..lol

[byne]

EXMEFan wrote...

You guys are just dumb, and I am letting you know that you are stupid, and you probably look too much into every game.

Its JUST A FREAKING GAME, it has no meaning beyond what the game gives you. You can make up lives for people who don't exist. That Turian that wanted the Quarian? Guess what, they don't exist, so you can't wonder if he got her or not, because if the game didn't explain it, it didn't happen, because these are AIs and not real people.

Why even bother with fiction if you care so little about the characters in it?

You can discuss it on a WHAT IF basis, but you can't go around saying things are true that the game hasn't said were true.

Go back through all 6,473 pages of the IT thread, and find a single place where I said IT was definitely true.

I'll wait.

[EXMEFan]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
That's true. But lets be honest here; wouldn't you find some form of sadistic pleasure if it turns out you're right and the others are wrong? That small sense of superiority that you get from simply being right while the other is wrong, don't you ever have that feeling? I won't lie about it, I do.

While nothing is certain until we had our very last piece of DLC for ME3, I have to admit that once the final piece of DLC is released and it turns out that there is no such thing as Shepard being indoctrinated, I'll have a short little sadistic laugh and make a tongue-in-cheek "I told you so" comment here in this thread.

Of course I'd feel some kind of satisfaction if my suspicions were proved to be correct over time.  Who wouldn't?

That's possibly why there's so much division on the BSN at the moment.  Not just IT vs Literalist, but Destroy vs Control vs Synthesis vs Refuse... everyone wants their beliefs to be well founded, to be correct.  And of course, no one likes to be duped, to have the wool pulled over their eyes.  We can't ALL be right.  Or even if we can, we can't all be EQUALLY right.

Personally, I'm more than happy to listen to any arguments regarding ME3's endings, literal, speculative, whatever.  I'm happy to debate the varying merits of Red/Green/Blue/Giving Up all day long, and argue the cases for and against each of them.  I have my own conclusions, that I'm comfortable with.  If they prove to be unfounded, c'est la vie.  But an open ending is meant to be discussed, meant to be talked about, and belittling people for their interpretation of an open ending - whatever it may be - is little more than childish trolling.

I'm not beyond indulging in a little bit of childishness of my own, of course.  Far from it.  But generally I'll leave each to their own, unless they openly and deliberately challenge my own interpretation.  At which point, they become fair game.

Guess what ALLLLLLLLLLLLL endings have in common?  The person talking to the CHILD at the end that basically lets you know Shepard is now a LEGEND who made PEACE for the Galaxy, no matter what choice you made.

The choices are just there to make it feel like you dictated HOW that peace happened, with subtle differences in what the man/woman tells the child.

This is an undeniable truth.......non-debatable.  The Thank You note at the end even says congrates on stopping the Reaper Threat, no matter what choice you picked.

And watch nobody answer me directly.  I am 100% right.

[Wayning_Star]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

and it means they don't know anything about story, literature, gaming, or the development process. 

And what exactly makes you believe that you do know anything about story, literature, gaming or their development process?

Because if the whole game you were CONTROLLED by something, the story would have revealed it, just like it revealed every other major event.

It wouldn't have you play the game, a game based on choice, only not to tell you that you were being controlled by the reapers.

There isn't even a reason NOT to divuldge that information.  Most gamers didn't even GET indoctrination from the game, Bioware are way better writers than that.

This IT stuff is only followed by a few hundred people out of millions of people who played the game.  

EA is about SELLING things and MAKING money, and they would not hang their hat on some vague plot twist thats never explained or that most people wouldn't even think about.

Also they PATCHED the ending to EXPLAIN things better, and one thing you think they WOULD HAVE EXPLAINED would be the fact that Shepard was indoctrinated.  

Also they already played the indoctrinated card with the Illusive Man, so if you were indoctrinated, why would your character help Illusive Man break out of it?  Why would they even have a confrontation if they were under the same secret literary device?

Sigh...

1: The ending makes even less sense after the EC as the Catalyst has massive holes in his logic and explanation which do not match what we actually see. The entire Normandy pickup secne also destroys several characters, including Shepard as no matter what Shepard no played you led a litteral suicide on the Collector Base. The stakes now are a million times what they were then, but Shepard sends his squad away inlcuding EDI who faces no danger in charging alongside him (remember everything that makes EDi who she is is onboard the Normandy)

2: Read up on IT damnit. IT quite clearly states Shepard is not Indoctrinated, he is only in the process. The choice is the turning point, he is not controlled up until the point where he makes a choice.

but to make Shep choose destroy, doesn't that kind of undermine everyone who plays out for other outcomes, kind of a "rule of thumb"? just say'n

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ah hello again Heretic, just waited for you to  show up.

Had to leave after asking about your favorite Legend of Zelda yesterday and looking up your reoky I found it curious. Mostly that you call Skyward Sword meh, as for me it is one of my favorites, a tie actually for best between it, Twilight Princess and Ocarina.

I didn't like Zelda because it didn't have a real living, breathing world like the other Zeldas. The only interesting area in the overworld was Skyloft. The surface areas didn't even feel like overworld areas to me, but actually part of the dungeon. The fact that you have to solve puzzles to continue in each particular area gave me that feeling. Though it might sound strange, I actually didn't like that.

Not strange at all, though i figure it kinda went with the background of the game beeing set after a cataclysmic war which forced the Goddess to move the people into the Sky.

It dident really bother me as my primary irritation with Twilight Princess was how the overworld felt large but barren, so i guess that balanced it out.

Though i will say they have yet to hit the magical point between openess and content in an overworld. Crossing my fingers fro the next game.

[Wayning_Star]

EXMEFan wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
That's true. But lets be honest here; wouldn't you find some form of sadistic pleasure if it turns out you're right and the others are wrong? That small sense of superiority that you get from simply being right while the other is wrong, don't you ever have that feeling? I won't lie about it, I do.

While nothing is certain until we had our very last piece of DLC for ME3, I have to admit that once the final piece of DLC is released and it turns out that there is no such thing as Shepard being indoctrinated, I'll have a short little sadistic laugh and make a tongue-in-cheek "I told you so" comment here in this thread.

Of course I'd feel some kind of satisfaction if my suspicions were proved to be correct over time.  Who wouldn't?

That's possibly why there's so much division on the BSN at the moment.  Not just IT vs Literalist, but Destroy vs Control vs Synthesis vs Refuse... everyone wants their beliefs to be well founded, to be correct.  And of course, no one likes to be duped, to have the wool pulled over their eyes.  We can't ALL be right.  Or even if we can, we can't all be EQUALLY right.

Personally, I'm more than happy to listen to any arguments regarding ME3's endings, literal, speculative, whatever.  I'm happy to debate the varying merits of Red/Green/Blue/Giving Up all day long, and argue the cases for and against each of them.  I have my own conclusions, that I'm comfortable with.  If they prove to be unfounded, c'est la vie.  But an open ending is meant to be discussed, meant to be talked about, and belittling people for their interpretation of an open ending - whatever it may be - is little more than childish trolling.

I'm not beyond indulging in a little bit of childishness of my own, of course.  Far from it.  But generally I'll leave each to their own, unless they openly and deliberately challenge my own interpretation.  At which point, they become fair game.

Guess what ALLLLLLLLLLLLL endings have in common?  The person talking to the CHILD at the end that basically lets you know Shepard is now a LEGEND who made PEACE for the Galaxy, no matter what choice you made.

The choices are just there to make it feel like you dictated HOW that peace happened, with subtle differences in what the man/woman tells the child.

This is an undeniable truth.......non-debatable.  The Thank You note at the end even says congrates on stopping the Reaper Threat, no matter what choice you picked.

And watch nobody answer me directly.  I am 100% right.

but other than to metagame? cheat alert!! heheh

[EXMEFan]

byne wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

You guys are just dumb, and I am letting you know that you are stupid, and you probably look too much into every game.

Its JUST A FREAKING GAME, it has no meaning beyond what the game gives you. You can make up lives for people who don't exist. That Turian that wanted the Quarian? Guess what, they don't exist, so you can't wonder if he got her or not, because if the game didn't explain it, it didn't happen, because these are AIs and not real people.

Why even bother with fiction if you care so little about the characters in it?

You can discuss it on a WHAT IF basis, but you can't go around saying things are true that the game hasn't said were true.

Go back through all 6,473 pages of the IT thread, and find a single place where I said IT was definitely true.

I'll wait.

Its not TRUE at all.  Its 100% false, the game has a very clear ending with the person telling the story to the child, and implying that no matter what choice you made, it was peace. 

And this is a GAME not a BOOK, the characters don't have lives once you beat the game.  Thats like trying to talk about what happens after Godfather 3.  If there is no Godfather 4 you will NEVER know what happens next, because NEXT doesn't exist until it is created.

This is the problem with nerds, obsessed with things that have no meaning beyond their given purpose.

[The Heretic of Time]

EXMEFan wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

and it means they don't know anything about story, literature, gaming, or the development process. 

And what exactly makes you believe that you do know anything about story, literature, gaming or their development process?

Because... *snip*

Yeah, well, that didn't quite answer my question. You just ramble on about some assumptions you make. And while I agree with you on some of your points, none of them explain on what ground, what basis, what foundation you base your assumptions. You claim that these ITers don't know anything, so I wonder why you think you do know anything.

So again: what exactly makes you believe that you do know anything about story, literature, gaming or their development process?

[KonguZya]

EXMEFan wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

and it means they don't know anything about story, literature, gaming, or the development process. 

And what exactly makes you believe that you do know anything about story, literature, gaming or their development process?

Because if the whole game you were CONTROLLED by something, the story would have revealed it, just like it revealed every other major event.

It wouldn't have you play the game, a game based on choice, only not to tell you that you were being controlled by the reapers.

There isn't even a reason NOT to divuldge that information.  Most gamers didn't even GET indoctrination from the game, Bioware are way better writers than that.

This IT stuff is only followed by a few hundred people out of millions of people who played the game.  

EA is about SELLING things and MAKING money, and they would not hang their hat on some vague plot twist thats never explained or that most people wouldn't even think about.

Also they PATCHED the ending to EXPLAIN things better, and one thing you think they WOULD HAVE EXPLAINED would be the fact that Shepard was indoctrinated.  

Also they already played the indoctrinated card with the Illusive Man, so if you were indoctrinated, why would your character help Illusive Man break out of it?  Why would they even have a confrontation if they were under the same secret literary device?

IT doesn't say that you've been controlled by the Reapers the whole game, it says that little by little, the Reapers are influencing Shepard, and at the end they try to trick you, just like they did Saren and TIM, and if you fall for it, you have given in to indoctrination. If Bioware had explained that 'lol ur indctrinated' then it wouldn't be a TRICK! That's what the Reapers do! No one would jump into the Synthesis beam if the Child was a hologram of Harbinger and said "Perfect your species now."

[byne]

EXMEFan wrote...

And this is a GAME not a BOOK, the characters don't have lives once you beat the game. 

Wait, what? You think characters in books have lives once you stop reading?

[CoolioThane]

FWIW, Ocarina of Time is, in my opinion, the best Zelda game by far.

This EXME guy is hilarious, by the way. class entertainment

[Leonia]

There's nothing said about peace at the end, only that the Reapers were dealt with.

[Humakt83]

You people prefer your trolls raw or well-cooked & crispy?

[CoolioThane]

Mate, trolls are fun to talk to.