80611 réponses à ce sujet

[EXMEFan]

byne wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

And this is a GAME not a BOOK, the characters don't have lives once you beat the game. 

Wait, what? You think characters in books have lives once you stop reading?

A game is interactive, visual, whether it has story or not, it still is a game, and has to be played to continue.

A book is literature, and what you get out of a book, the pictures, the characters, HAVE to be created and live in your mind.

[Wayning_Star]

One little problem, if Shep is indoctrinated, to overcome it to thwart the catalyst, how did Shep become indoctrinated? What with all that stress in the end, seems easy to resist indoctrination up unitl the choices. Just curious?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

[quote]Wayning_Star wrote...

1: The ending makes even less sense after the EC as the Catalyst has massive holes in his logic and explanation which do not match what we actually see. The entire Normandy pickup secne also destroys several characters, including Shepard as no matter what Shepard no played you led a litteral suicide on the Collector Base. The stakes now are a million times what they were then, but Shepard sends his squad away inlcuding EDI who faces no danger in charging alongside him (remember everything that makes EDi who she is is onboard the Normandy)

2: Read up on IT damnit. IT quite clearly states Shepard is not Indoctrinated, he is only in the process. The choice is the turning point, he is not controlled up until the point where he makes a choice.

[/quote]

but to make Shep choose destroy, doesn't that kind of undermine everyone who plays out for other outcomes, kind of a "rule of thumb"? just say'n[/quote]

Making a  wrong choice during the suicide mission got people killed, how is this different?

Though to be fair I would agree was it not for the fact that Control and Synthesis has been shown to highly unreliable often leading to dister or downright abomniable in their outcomes through the series. Just looking at TIM and Saren who are just about the only two supports you will find beyond the Reapers gives a good idea. With TIM advertising Control and Saren Synthesis and both are Indoctrinated, that alone makes me think twice on both accounts.

The choices might be appeleaing to the player, but if it goes against the themes and examples placed by the story (which should come before the players personal ideas) then something is wrong.

Beyond taht IT does not necesarily mean it is just gameover when you pick a wrong choice. Certian events might allow Shepard a saving grace, kinda like Saren killing himself, before he can cause any damage and thus allowing others to finish the fight.

My own personal idea on thsi is the Rachni Queen, a creature Immune (or at least resistant) to Indoctrination who can interact with the minds of living creatures. In a situation where Shepard is Indoctrinated while the Rahcni Queen is alive it might provide the key to breaking free (for a short time) by interacting with Shepards mind. This would also fit the Pre release quote stating the Rachni would have a large impact upon the ending.

[ElSuperGecko]

EXMEFan wrote...
Guess what ALLLLLLLLLLLLL endings have in common?  The person talking to the CHILD at the end that basically lets you know Shepard is now a LEGEND who made PEACE for the Galaxy, no matter what choice you made.

"tell me another story about the Shepard" "OK, one more story"

That's exceptionally definitive and damning evidence you're quoting there.  Not intentionally vague or disconnected from the rest of the game in the slightest.  We know absolutely nothing for sure about the figures in the epilogue, other than they know of a being known as "the Shepard".  How they know of Shepards deeds; how MUCH of the story ("...the details are lost in time") they know; how far in the future the scene is set; whether or not they're even human at all is entirely up in the air.

But you choose to interpret it however you want.  That's your decision.  Don't let us stop you.

The Thank You note at the end even says congrates on stopping the Reaper Threat, no matter what choice you picked.

And now you're quoting evidence that breaks the fourth wall and is essentially addressing the company addressing the fans directly.  Bioware's "Thank You Please Buy Our DLC" note bears no significence when it comes to the events, situations and story of game itself.  As you said yourself, it's a thank you note. (and an advertisment for downloadable content).  There's nothing more to read into it than that.

And watch nobody answer me directly.  I am 100% right.

No you're not.  You're speculating and interpreting, just like we are.  As proven above.

You're welcome. 

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 21 novembre 2012 - 05:03 .

[EXMEFan]

leonia42 wrote...

There's nothing said about peace at the end, only that the Reapers were dealt with.

No, the women/man says there is peace in the galaxy, and I uniquely remember the ending WHERE YOU LET THE REAPERS WIN BY WALKING AWAY, and they still say it was peace. And that time it was a woman speaking to a child.

[CoolioThane]

EXMEFan wrote...

byne wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

And this is a GAME not a BOOK, the characters don't have lives once you beat the game. 

Wait, what? You think characters in books have lives once you stop reading?

A game is interactive, visual, whether it has story or not, it still is a game, and has to be played to continue.

A book is literature, and what you get out of a book, the pictures, the characters, HAVE to be created and live in your mind.

But you're still seeing the characters. Characters of Mass Effect already have a neat form already created for us. They still exist in our minds lol

[masster blaster]

*Reads the last few pages*

Hello Hanar.

What the hell EX's is back again.

*facepalms at all of his post*

Modifié par masster blaster, 21 novembre 2012 - 05:04 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Wayning_Star wrote...

One little problem, if Shep is indoctrinated, to overcome it to thwart the catalyst, how did Shep become indoctrinated? What with all that stress in the end, seems easy to resist indoctrination up unitl the choices. Just curious?

Indoctrination is not a an immediate mind control, it is a slow process, especially if the Reapers want to create a thrall whose metal capacities do not quickly detoriate.

But in basic Shepard has had more than a little bit of proximity to Reapers and their tech. Most noteably is the base on Virmire which was dedicated to Indoctrination study, the Derelict reaper which had already indoctrinated a science team, the Collector Ship, the Collector base, he spends two days days passed out near Object Rho which Indoctrinated a another team (and is the source of the "Struggle as you wish Shepard, you mind will be ours" quote) and beyond that there are the two Reaper Destroyers in ME3. And that is just the most major bits as we have several minor instances as well.

Indoctriantion is also a process once established continues even when the victim is not in proximity to Reaper tech as shown by Rana Thanoptis from Virmire. her only exposure was from the base (though we dont know how much) yet it is not until Mass Effect 3, 2.5 year later that she carves and shoots several high ranking Asari.

As for the stress it could be a sign of Shepards detoriating condition as by then NPC´s start to notice something is wrong. But it might be legimate stress brought on by the situation, however I seem to recall that the Indoctrination process speeds up when the victim is under stress or similar. I recall that beeing froma log in Sanctuary.

[ElSuperGecko]

CoolioThane wrote...
Mate, trolls are fun to talk to.

Especially when they talk themselves into a corner and throw their toys out of the pram... as I believe may well be about to happen here shortly...

[CoolioThane]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...
Mate, trolls are fun to talk to.

Especially when they talk themselves into a corner and throw their toys out of the pram... as I believe may well be about to happen here shortly...

Or start arguing with themselves. That's always schizophrenic fun!

[demersel]

GLYPH - "the reaper destroyed by the thresher maw appears to be completely inert. We would need to send in teams to be sure."

That thing deffiinitly has a sense of humor. And very dark one at that.

Modifié par demersel, 21 novembre 2012 - 05:11 .

[EXMEFan]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...
Guess what ALLLLLLLLLLLLL endings have in common?  The person talking to the CHILD at the end that basically lets you know Shepard is now a LEGEND who made PEACE for the Galaxy, no matter what choice you made.

"tell me another story about the Shepard" "OK, one more story"

That's exceptionally definitive and damning evidence you're quoting there.  Not intentionally vague or disconnected from the rest of the game in the slightest.  We know absolutely nothing for sure about the figures in the epilogue, other than they know of a being known as "the Shepard".  How they know of Shepards deeds; how MUCH of the story ("...the details are lost in time") they know; how far in the future the scene is set; whether or not they're even human at all is entirely up in the air.

But you choose to interpret it however you want.  That's your decision.  Don't let us stop you.

The Thank You note at the end even says congrates on stopping the Reaper Threat, no matter what choice you picked.

And now you're quoting evidence that breaks the fourth wall and is essentially addressing the company addressing the fans directly.  Bioware's "Thank You Please Buy Our DLC" note bears no significence when it comes to the events, situations and story of game itself.  As you said yourself, it's a thank you note. (and an advertisment for downloadable content).  There's nothing more to read into it than that.

And watch nobody answer me directly.  I am 100% right.

No you're not.  You're speculating and interpreting, just like we are.  As proven above.

You're welcome. 

The one more story was refering to the DLC you ****** lol.  Since Shepard is dead at the end regardless of what you do (aside from the little twitch ending, but I didn't get that but once), how can you have one more story unless they are just refering to the DLC.

Also, yes, Bioware is effectively stating that their intent was that you stopped the Reaper threat.  And were linking with the one more story reference with the DLC.

Also

Why would the Reapers want to be controlled or merge? How is either one in the best interest of the Reapers.  It doesn't make sense that they WANTED Shepard to complete the weapon in the first place.  Starchild even said they underestimated Shepard.

Also Starchild, if he wanted to trick Shepard, would have never explained how to use the devices in the first place.

And lets not mention this WHOLE situation is a total 360 of what Soveriegn said the Reapers were.  

Its bad writing, its a bad story to a great game...thats all it is...there is no super secret plot.  Accept the the game has a bad ending, like Knights of the Old Republic 2.

You guys are just pathetic.

[masster blaster]

EXMEFan wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

There's nothing said about peace at the end, only that the Reapers were dealt with.

No, the women/man says there is peace in the galaxy, and I uniquely remember the ending WHERE YOU LET THE REAPERS WIN BY WALKING AWAY, and they still say it was peace. And that time it was a woman speaking to a child.

What is peace to you? Look at everyone is Synthesis. Are they at peace yes, but it's wrong. Nobody in their right minds would befriends with the Reapers. The Leviathans, and Javik would sure as hell die before they let the Reapers live, and befriends with everyone. The catalyst said the cycle would end, but not the war. Why do people stop fighting at all in Control, and Synthesis? Just why? What is fredom? Is it not fought for, or is it just handed down to anyone.

No it's fought with the blood, and sacrifices of the men, and woman that fight for their own freedom for either others, and their.

Control you become the enemy you swore to stop. Also remember your a specter.; Your suppost to bring justice to the Reapers, not save them. Why would you want to save them, " Oh the brat said EDI, and the Geth will die in Destroy..." You know how much bs the Catalyst tells us. Everything. Oh it's just doing it's job, and I don't want to kill EDi, and the Geth.

I mean come on it clams it doesn't know anything about the Crucible, yet it tells us about Destroy, Control, and Synthesis perfectly. I don't by it. Oh and I am going to say this. You don't know nothing about IT, and if you want an argument of your to get acroos back it up with evidence. Hell we have beeen doing ever since Mark1, but what evidence, or things to back up what you are saying.

[CoolioThane]

I still think Glyph is an evil bastard

[EXMEFan]

CoolioThane wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

byne wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

And this is a GAME not a BOOK, the characters don't have lives once you beat the game. 

Wait, what? You think characters in books have lives once you stop reading?

A game is interactive, visual, whether it has story or not, it still is a game, and has to be played to continue.

A book is literature, and what you get out of a book, the pictures, the characters, HAVE to be created and live in your mind.

But you're still seeing the characters. Characters of Mass Effect already have a neat form already created for us. They still exist in our minds lol

They only exist for the purpose of playing the game....bad graphics means crappy game, and the story wouldn't even mean much, if the game play sucked, the story wouldn't mean much.  Too many things that go into a game.

A book is a book, its ALL about story, the FOCUS is story.  

A game is not a book, its a freaking game.

[MaximizedAction]

EXMEFan wrote...

*snip*

Its not TRUE at all.  Its 100% false, the game has a very clear ending with the person telling the story to the child, and implying that no matter what choice you made, it was peace. 
*snip*

Last scene non-Refuse vs. Refuse ending:



Closeup of Refuse:


Closeup of non-Refuse/pre-EC:


The first one is a child, what about the last one?
Don't fall for tricks, don't trust everything right from the spot, look more closely at the details and question what you see. The rest is up to you.

[Wayning_Star]

[quote]Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

[quote]Wayning_Star wrote...

1: The ending makes even less sense after the EC as the Catalyst has massive holes in his logic and explanation which do not match what we actually see. The entire Normandy pickup secne also destroys several characters, including Shepard as no matter what Shepard no played you led a litteral suicide on the Collector Base. The stakes now are a million times what they were then, but Shepard sends his squad away inlcuding EDI who faces no danger in charging alongside him (remember everything that makes EDi who she is is onboard the Normandy)

2: Read up on IT damnit. IT quite clearly states Shepard is not Indoctrinated, he is only in the process. The choice is the turning point, he is not controlled up until the point where he makes a choice.

[/quote]

but to make Shep choose destroy, doesn't that kind of undermine everyone who plays out for other outcomes, kind of a "rule of thumb"? just say'n[/quote]

Making a  wrong choice during the suicide mission got people killed, how is this different?

Though to be fair I would agree was it not for the fact that Control and Synthesis has been shown to highly unreliable often leading to dister or downright abomniable in their outcomes through the series. Just looking at TIM and Saren who are just about the only two supports you will find beyond the Reapers gives a good idea. With TIM advertising Control and Saren Synthesis and both are Indoctrinated, that alone makes me think twice on both accounts.

The choices might be appeleaing to the player, but if it goes against the themes and examples placed by the story (which should come before the players personal ideas) then something is wrong.

Beyond taht IT does not necesarily mean it is just gameover when you pick a wrong choice. Certian events might allow Shepard a saving grace, kinda like Saren killing himself, before he can cause any damage and thus allowing others to finish the fight.

My own personal idea on thsi is the Rachni Queen, a creature Immune (or at least resistant) to Indoctrination who can interact with the minds of living creatures. In a situation where Shepard is Indoctrinated while the Rahcni Queen is alive it might provide the key to breaking free (for a short time) by interacting with Shepards mind. This would also fit the Pre release quote stating the Rachni would have a large impact upon the ending.

[/quote]

Actually, Saren was more of a control through assimilation. He wanted to be accepted by the machine mind, but didn't really understand the motives of that reapership who waylaid him. Overall, the reaperships have only one motive, harvest. They're given free reign enough to accomplish that goal. Set out by non other than the catalyst. IN the the end Shep is fighting an unknown force with unknown weapons/tools provided by unknown quantities. The story leaves out information up until Shep attains the catalyst audience. The IT theory, IMHO, fills in the blanks, and creates an alternate ending situation, crafted from a whole cloth, given with the lack of information, and general mistrust, garnered by that lack there of. So I feel that the IT is forged from the necessity of closure, an actuality in the mist of those dream states Shep apparently endures.

Personally, I cannot agree that BiowarEa would permit this volume of speculation as a canon ending for Shepard, even if Shep were victorious. With the ageless catalyst, there is NO being victorious. The catalyst is the MEU. It created the MEU system of events. All Shep can do is complicate the situation, not change it utterly. The trap is laid, the organics made it fool proof...

[CoolioThane]

EXMEFan wrote...


The one more story was refering to the DLC you ****** lol.  Since Shepard is dead at the end regardless of what you do (aside from the little twitch ending, but I didn't get that but once), how can you have one more story unless they are just refering to the DLC.

Also, yes, Bioware is effectively stating that their intent was that you stopped the Reaper threat.  And were linking with the one more story reference with the DLC.

Also

Why would the Reapers want to be controlled or merge? How is either one in the best interest of the Reapers.  It doesn't make sense that they WANTED Shepard to complete the weapon in the first place.  Starchild even said they underestimated Shepard.

Also Starchild, if he wanted to trick Shepard, would have never explained how to use the devices in the first place.

And lets not mention this WHOLE situation is a total 360 of what Soveriegn said the Reapers were.  

Its bad writing, its a bad story to a great game...thats all it is...there is no super secret plot.  Accept the the game has a bad ending, like Knights of the Old Republic 2.

You guys are just pathetic.

Haha, you're funny. So what happens when we play with DLC? The ending still says "One more story" - Implying this one more story takes place after the events of what has been said...which fits our theory.

pfft...if you want to try and talk to us it's best you not call us pathetic, yeah?

[Wayning_Star]

demersel wrote...

GLYPH - "the reaper destroyed by the thresher maw appears to be completely inert. We would need to send in teams to be sure."

That thing deffiinitly has a sense of humor. And very dark one at that.

It meant to send in a team of synthetics,they're impervious to indoctrination.

[ElSuperGecko]

EXMEFan wrote...
The one more story was refering to the DLC you ****** lol.  Since Shepard is dead at the end regardless of what you do (aside from the little twitch ending, but I didn't get that but once), how can you have one more story unless they are just refering to the DLC.

Also, yes, Bioware is effectively stating that their intent was that you stopped the Reaper threat.  And were linking with the one more story reference with the DLC.

LOL yep, just as I predicted - backed itself into a corner, and now it's arguing with itself...

You guys are just pathetic.

...and there go the toys!  Brilliant.

[MisterX867]

I always found it funny that in the stargazer scene the kid said "Did all that really happen?" I took that line as everything was not as it seemed

[The Heretic of Time]

CoolioThane wrote...

FWIW, Ocarina of Time is, in my opinion, the best Zelda game by far.

This EXME guy is hilarious, by the way. class entertainment

I believe this is the 2nd (or the 3rd?) time we actually agree on something.  Ocarina of Time rules!

[paxxton]

MisterX867 wrote...

I always found it funny that in the stargazer scene the kid said "Did all that really happen?" I took that line as everything was not as it seemed

What happen?

[Revan87]

Hey guys, you should check out this:

andrewryanart.deviantart.com/#/d5lq8wr

[masster blaster]

paxxton wrote...

MisterX867 wrote...

I always found it funny that in the stargazer scene the kid said "Did all that really happen?" I took that line as everything was not as it seemed

What happen?

That's the question right, hence we speculate on teh endings, like Bioware wants.