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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#49176
Revan87

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demersel wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Revan87 wrote...

Hey guys, you should check out this:

andrewryanart.deviantart.com/#/d5lq8wr



Now you're scaring meme...er,me..sorry.Posted Image


Where is Jacob??


There artist of this picture doesn't like Jacob and Ashley, so they're both not in it.

#49177
EXMEFan

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The theory just fails. If my Shepard was a controlling bastard in the first place, before the Reapers even showed up, there is no reason to indoctrinate me to do something I was going to do anyways.

And there is no benefit for the Reapers in none of the choices except refuse, which wasn't an original choice:

1. Control - They were being controlled anyways....and why would they want Shepard to control them?
2. Sythesis- They were already part organic and part mechanical anyways, and that choices was stupid anyways because it doesn't change anything but DNA, and not political motives and other things that cause chaos.
3. Destroy- Obvious

And either way the mass relays and the citadel was destroyed....so the Reapers would have been stuck in the SOL system for a very long time, and it would have taken them forever to come back in 50,000 years, they couldn't continue their mission, unless you refused, which wasn't an original choice.

I mean none of it makes sense, even the game as is doesn't make sense. It was a bad job at the end by Bioware, thats all I'm trying to say.

#49178
The Heretic of Time

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Dwailing wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

To be fair, the "one more story" is probably just EA shamelessly advertising their DLC. Nowhere does the old man say that this "one more story" takes place AFTER the Mass Effect trilogy.


To be fair One more story mean 1 dlc, and it looks like we got more than 1 more story, unless it's all just one bug dlc/ story that's was just cut down. :whistle:


You know. the, "one more story," thing is still my explanation for why the endings be crazy.  Old Stargeazer Mac Walters had to finish his story!  And since he was telling it to a kid bunch of dumb fanboys and bio-drones, the ending didn't HAVE to make sense.  And we're going to get that one more story later, as DLC. And we're going to have to pay a lot for it because EA cares more about money than fans.


There, fixed it for you. :lol:


No, I don't think you did.... :?:D


Well, EA wanted BioWare to aim for the CoD-crowd with Mass Effect 3. The CoD-crowd doesn't care about story, it's all about the PEW-PEW! So story-wise, everything was fair game, as long as EA would get their precious Mass Effect 3 released as soon as possible, with lots of multiplayer and lots of day-one DLC for extra munniez. Because it's all about the munniez.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Mac Walters indeed was rushed to finish the story ASAP so ME3 could hit the shelves.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 21 novembre 2012 - 05:48 .


#49179
masster blaster

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Restrider wrote...

----------Preamble----------



This list has been compiled to enable an easy access to The Indoctrination Theory. While there are many other aspects, hints and signs throughout Mass Effect 3 and the entire trilogy that may also point to The Indoctrination Theory, the concepts presented in this list are - to the best of my knowledge - the most compelling ones. Take into account that my role in this undertaking was mainly the role of an editor, though many broader suggestions I found to be convincing, made it into the list. The vast majority of the points listed below were reported by fellow associates of The Indoctrination Theory and they deserve the correspondent gratitude.
The order of the list was determined through surveys and polls that can be found here.




----------The Ten Most Important Concepts Supporting The Indoctrination Theory----------



     
        I) Indoctrination in general :

          1.   Regarding IT, Shepard is in the process of indoctrination and the outcome is decided by the final decision taken.
          2.   The concept of indoctrination is a crucial part throughout the trilogy and nothing new to the player (link 1 and 2).
          3.   Rana Thanoptis is an example of how subtle and slow indoctrination can be.
          4.   Shepard knocked out for two days by a Reaper artifact that indoctrinated an entire facility.
          5.   Logs on the derelict Reaper illustrate the reactions of victims of indoctrination.
          6.   Paul Grayson's indoctrination show its effects on someone's mind.
          7.   Harbinger's smacktalk (link 1 and 2).

 
       II) The Breath Scene :

          1.   London rubble.
          2.   Mako in the background.
          3.   Citadel explosion (link 1 and 2).


    III) The Dreams :
         
          1.   Dream sequences and post-beam sequence share the same game mechanics.
          2.   Reality-nonreality transition after beam shot (post-beam, dreams, Geth Consensus).
          3.   Oily shadows and whispering.
          4.   Nightmares are mentioned in the Arrival by subjects being indoctrinated.
          5.   Chambers and Asari having PTSD as comparison between PTSD & Shepard's dreams.


    IV) Leviathan :

          1.   Harbinger/the Reapers perfected enthrallment to indoctrination.
          2.   Enthrallment uses memories of its victim.
          3.   Similarities between Leviathan end and decision chamber.
          4.   Zap sound as a sign to enter/leave virtual reality (link 1 and 2).
          5.   Note the file name of the sixth murder that can be found in Bryson's lab.


     V) The Choices :

          1.   Shepard on his knees happened only during/after some mind control.
          2.   The Guardian is aligned to the Reapers.
          3.   Control and Synthesis being supported by indoctrinated characters.
          4.   A swap in the colours (TIM = ParagonAnderson = Renegade).
          5.   Huskification during Control/Synthesis vs. Shepard gaining strength while shooting the tubes.
          6.   Guardian losing it when you refuse ("SO BE IT!").
          7.   Decision chamber looks like a dialogue wheel from an aerial view.
          8.   Decision chamber resembling beam scenery (link 1 and 2).
          9.   Ambiguous end dialogue (Control/Synthesis).
        10.   Slide shows in Control/Synthesis/Destroy illustrate future possibilities, not facts that already happened.
        11.   Soldiers in Destroy fighting fiercely while in Control/Synthesis they are losing (note: no cheering in Synthesis).


    VI) The Kid :

         1.   Moves from one roof to another during an invasion (all links).
         2.   It can open a door that is marked as locked.
         3.   It survives a blast from a Reaper laser.
         4.   It is not seen by anyone else.
         5.   There always are warning symbols around it.
         6.   It disappears without making any noise.
         7.   It does not behave like a normal kid ("You cannot save me!").
         8.   The Guardian has the same form as the kid.


   VII) Anderson & TIM :

         1.   How did Anderson follow Shepard?
         2.   How can Anderson reach the control first?
         3.   Why did no one else follow Anderson?
         4.   From where did TIM shows up?
         5.   TIM's scars are only present at the end of the game.
         6.   Anderson may be addressing Shepard ("They are controlling you!").
         7.   Shepard is dominated by TIM and thus through him by the Reapers.
         8.   Anderson and Shepard have wounds at the same place (link 1 and 2).
         9.   Reaper horn played in the background (at 1/2 speed).


  VIII) The Guardian :

         1.   It has the same shape as the kid ( thus an extraction of Shepard's memories).
         2.   It speaks with femshep's and maleshep's voice.
         3.   Harbinger's line in the MP trailer (link 1 and 2).


    IX) The Beam Run :

        1.   Harbinger is pin-pointing everyone and everything but Shepard.
        2.   Harbinger does not destroy the Normandy.
        3.   Shepard survives a blast that should one-shot Makos and Gunships.
        4.   Harbinger just leaves.


     X) The Citadel :

        1.   The Citadel resembles events of the past.
        2.   You can find Coats dead on the Citadel.
        3.   The illumination without a specific source.




----------Epilogue----------


I would again like to thank everyone that has contributed to this list and if only a single person gains a broader perspective of The Indoctrination Theory through this list, the porpuse of this undertaking has been fulfilled and not in vain. This list may seem to be complete, but there are certainly going to be new discoveries in the course of exploring new content and I will try to adjust this list accordingly.


Version 1.0  (23.10.2012)


HOW about you read this EXMEFAN. All your question will be explained, and click the video links.



Also Hanar what do you think of this?

Modifié par masster blaster, 21 novembre 2012 - 05:51 .


#49180
smokingotter1

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Reminder to put in your prediction to what if anything Omega will bring to IT.

Posted Image

Make sure to add #icalledIT

Will compile it on 26th.... probably on the the next thread because as you all know this thread is going to be locked down soon due to size, once it hits past 2000......

EDIT:  Also I'm going to be out of town for awhile for the holiday. You all have a happy thanksgiving. As for me I'm off to float around in the ocean and eat lobsters with my otter family. See you all later!

Edit2: MB have a merry thanksgiving!

Modifié par smokingotter1, 21 novembre 2012 - 05:52 .


#49181
masster blaster

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EXMEFan wrote...

The theory just fails. If my Shepard was a controlling bastard in the first place, before the Reapers even showed up, there is no reason to indoctrinate me to do something I was going to do anyways.

And there is no benefit for the Reapers in none of the choices except refuse, which wasn't an original choice:

1. Control - They were being controlled anyways....and why would they want Shepard to control them?
2. Sythesis- They were already part organic and part mechanical anyways, and that choices was stupid anyways because it doesn't change anything but DNA, and not political motives and other things that cause chaos.
3. Destroy- Obvious

And either way the mass relays and the citadel was destroyed....so the Reapers would have been stuck in the SOL system for a very long time, and it would have taken them forever to come back in 50,000 years, they couldn't continue their mission, unless you refused, which wasn't an original choice.

I mean none of it makes sense, even the game as is doesn't make sense. It was a bad job at the end by Bioware, thats all I'm trying to say.


IF you don't understand the endings, then why are you here. You want to understand IT, you want to know why, why did ME3 is this way. But your to into bad writing, you don't see what ITers see. So open your mind to IT, and everything you want to know will be explained, but keep this up, and you won't get nothing.

#49182
masster blaster

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smokingotter1 wrote...

Reminder to put in your prediction to what if anything Omega will bring to IT.

Posted Image

Make sure to add #icalledIT

Will compile it on 26th.... probably on the the next thread because as you all know this thread is going to be locked down soon due to size, once it hits past 2000......


Otter my best friend.

#49183
spotlessvoid

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So much RETARDED in here! Go away little pest, you aren't making sense.

#49184
demersel

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Revan87 wrote...

There artist of this picture doesn't like Jacob and Ashley, so they're both not in it.


There is Kaidan - they can't both be in it. But Jacob is just absent. 

#49185
Revan87

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demersel wrote...

Revan87 wrote...

There artist of this picture doesn't like Jacob and Ashley, so they're both not in it.


There is Kaidan - they can't both be in it. But Jacob is just absent. 


"Ashley and Jacob aren't included because I'm not a fan of either
character, sorry to anyone who's upset by this. But rest assured they
died nobly in their fight against the darkspawn."

#49186
Davik Kang

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wtf, you guys are still entertaining the troll, is there really so little to talk about these days? are you actively feeding him now? maybe cook up a buffet and invite all the trolls in for a big troll-fest

...or you could stop feeding them maybe?

#49187
EXMEFan

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masster blaster wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

Look I'm going to make a realistic point, and I'm done trolling here, I was going to save this til I understood more, but I think I know what you guys are saying.  You are saying if you picked a choice other than destroy, that you were indoctrinated.  Well check this out:

The ending of this game is the exact same ending of Deus Ex human revolution, where it just gave you 4 choices to make you feel like you decided how the game ended.  

If your decisions was influenced by anything, it was your personality as a player.

Now in mass effect if I picked what you guys think the reapers wanted me to pick, that underminds my decision as a player....it tells me I picked this being I was indoctrinated, when in reality I picked it so my character wouldn't die or for 1000 other reasons as  A PERSON.

I am Shepard, so if I picked this choice, I obviously did it because I wanted to, because I was able to pick any other choice, and I've made similar choices throughout the series.



How can a game tell me I picked a choice because I was indoctrinated when I picked it because I believe people should live in harmony or because I wanted to control the Reapers because I was an **** since ME1?  What if my decision throughout the game reflected this final choice, are you going to say I was indoctrinated the whole game because my ending choice was the same type of choice I made through the whole ME series?

You see where you guys are flawed?  The game can't tell you that you picked this because you were indoctrinated if the personality you gave Shepard from the beginning reflected this choice.

You were able to be the type of person who would pick control or merge from the first conversation option in ME1, therefore indoctrination is not needed.  Your motives were the same ones that most likely didn't change even at the end of the series, and THAT is the reason for your choice.

Its like the game TELLING me I saved Ashley because I loved her, when that wasn't the motivation for my choice, I saved her because she is a female, this is why I made the decision as a player.  My future conversation options affirmed to Ashley the reasons why I saved her, not the game forcing me.




You takeing things to literaly, and your blinded by your own trolling to see what you are saying. You just told use your a troll, and now not every single god dam thing you do counts for IT. Shepard again is under going Indocctrination. Only we the player have to choose, if Shepard get's Indoctrinated, or not.


You not reading what I said.

Why would the Reapers need to indoctrinate a player who played an Anti-Hero when left alone he would have made the same decision anyways.

Everybody's Shepard wasn't this GOOD guy who was willing to get himself killed for the sake of other people.  Some people's Shepard was always selfish in the first place.  So there is no need to indoctrinate him.  There is no need for him to be TRICKED into doing something he would have done in the first place.

And its not like the Reapers win if they are controlled or merged with organics...and Reapers are already merged with organic material, so that really doesn't change who they are.


The reason why is because we said this to you on the first page when you showed up, but no you didn't read it, you just trolled am I right.

That's the point. Who controls Shepard we do. Bioware knows that Shepard can't make the choice because the player Controls SHepard, which is why Bioware Indoctrinates the player with the endings. It's simple who has the power we do, but look what happence when our squad it not with Shepard. He/she is lost.


Um they live that's a huge win. You save the Reapers. Oh  no I can't kill teh Reapers because the leader of teh Reaper says I will kill my friends EDI, and tehGeht, and I will die. bs I mean come on it hates Destroy. You can tell it does, and why on Earth in Control we can't Control all SYnthesitcs, where in Destroy we kill them all?

That's just it. i can't explain anything to you because you shut IT out the moment you can on this thread.


You forget that the device was made by different civilizations, the choices weren't made by the star child, it was obviously made by finishing the device by whoever made the blue prints.

Its a poorly concieved ending.  Indoctrinated or not, Shepard is still presented with consequences associated with each choice.  You don't need indoctrination to realize if you pick destory all Synthetics some of your friends, and the geth will die, thats actually a human choice.

The BS comes in with the fact Bioware tried to make an ending that would make a person think twice about their actions, and it end up being something this generic, and confusing.

Thus it spawns BS like this thread.   It was a bad ending.  

But you don't need indoctrination to make somebody make any of those decisions, they basically had risk and rewards associated with them by default.  I just wanted the choice to walk away, which was added in the EC. 

And the reason I pick refuse was because I rather lose like a man, other than make any of those choices......as long as I did what I could.

Somebody else reason probably would have been different.....but thats why they are Shepard, to make the choice for themselves.

#49188
Wayning_Star

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EXMEFan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

Look I'm going to make a realistic point, and I'm done trolling here, I was going to save this til I understood more, but I think I know what you guys are saying.  You are saying if you picked a choice other than destroy, that you were indoctrinated.  Well check this out:

The ending of this game is the exact same ending of Deus Ex human revolution, where it just gave you 4 choices to make you feel like you decided how the game ended.  

If your decisions was influenced by anything, it was your personality as a player.

Now in mass effect if I picked what you guys think the reapers wanted me to pick, that underminds my decision as a player....it tells me I picked this being I was indoctrinated, when in reality I picked it so my character wouldn't die or for 1000 other reasons as  A PERSON.

I am Shepard, so if I picked this choice, I obviously did it because I wanted to, because I was able to pick any other choice, and I've made similar choices throughout the series.



How can a game tell me I picked a choice because I was indoctrinated when I picked it because I believe people should live in harmony or because I wanted to control the Reapers because I was an **** since ME1?  What if my decision throughout the game reflected this final choice, are you going to say I was indoctrinated the whole game because my ending choice was the same type of choice I made through the whole ME series?

You see where you guys are flawed?  The game can't tell you that you picked this because you were indoctrinated if the personality you gave Shepard from the beginning reflected this choice.

You were able to be the type of person who would pick control or merge from the first conversation option in ME1, therefore indoctrination is not needed.  Your motives were the same ones that most likely didn't change even at the end of the series, and THAT is the reason for your choice.

Its like the game TELLING me I saved Ashley because I loved her, when that wasn't the motivation for my choice, I saved her because she is a female, this is why I made the decision as a player.  My future conversation options affirmed to Ashley the reasons why I saved her, not the game forcing me.




You takeing things to literaly, and your blinded by your own trolling to see what you are saying. You just told use your a troll, and now not every single god dam thing you do counts for IT. Shepard again is under going Indocctrination. Only we the player have to choose, if Shepard get's Indoctrinated, or not.


You not reading what I said.

Why would the Reapers need to indoctrinate a player who played an Anti-Hero when left alone he would have made the same decision anyways.

Everybody's Shepard wasn't this GOOD guy who was willing to get himself killed for the sake of other people.  Some people's Shepard was always selfish in the first place.  So there is no need to indoctrinate him.  There is no need for him to be TRICKED into doing something he would have done in the first place.

And its not like the Reapers win if they are controlled or merged with organics...and Reapers are already merged with organic material, so that really doesn't change who they are.


Actually,the reaperships only "contain" organic compounds,their 'entity' is organic, in as much a material to contain data. The catalyst actually controls them, for alpha programming. They are machines,they are NOT synthesised, like portended in the decision making choices. Synthesis definitively 'changes' them and it also makes for them to be freed from their duties as reaperships. The ITer's have a point there, I think the catalyst does infer that it's probably "for" synthesis, as a choice, logically, to be more efficient than others.

But, the kicker being that BiowarEa is not forthcoming in the exposure of the intended entity ultimately responsible for the choices. Shep has NO clue as to who/what designed the crucible or thought out the choices.. if any..

(if any, means that there isn't really a choice there, if you scope out the different fact based realities associated with the overall story. From 1 through 3....)

#49189
spotlessvoid

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Davik Kang wrote...

wtf, you guys are still entertaining the troll, is there really so little to talk about these days? are you actively feeding him now? maybe cook up a buffet and invite all the trolls in for a big troll-fest

...or you could stop feeding them maybe?


I demand more Davik posts!

#49190
Restrider

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Davik Kang wrote...

wtf, you guys are still entertaining the troll, is there really so little to talk about these days? are you actively feeding him now? maybe cook up a buffet and invite all the trolls in for a big troll-fest

...or you could stop feeding them maybe?

I have the sensation that this incarnation of the IT thread is slowly reaching its date of demise. The eruption of troll wars is one sign of that.
It would be ideal, if the fourth incarnation started with a discussion of Omega DLC. And it is likely to be that way.
I assume that this thread is going to be locked next weekend.

#49191
The Heretic of Time

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masster blaster wrote...

*snip*

Also Hanar what do you think of this?


Unconvincing and some points are even meaningless.


I could go on and debunk every single point made step by step, but honestly, I don't have the time nor do I care enough about this to do so.

#49192
CmdrShep80

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EXMEFan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

Look I'm going to make a realistic point, and I'm done trolling here[/u], I was going to save this til I understood more, but I think I know what you guys are saying.  You are saying if you picked a choice other than destroy, that you were indoctrinated.  Well check this out:

The ending of this game is the exact same ending of Deus Ex human revolution, where it just gave you 4 choices to make you feel like you decided how the game ended.  

If your decisions was influenced by anything, it was your personality as a player.

Now in mass effect if I picked what you guys think the reapers wanted me to pick, that underminds my decision as a player....it tells me I picked this being I was indoctrinated, when in reality I picked it so my character wouldn't die or for 1000 other reasons as  A PERSON.

I am Shepard, so if I picked this choice, I obviously did it because I wanted to, because I was able to pick any other choice, and I've made similar choices throughout the series.



How can a game tell me I picked a choice because I was indoctrinated when I picked it because I believe people should live in harmony or because I wanted to control the Reapers because I was an **** since ME1?  What if my decision throughout the game reflected this final choice, are you going to say I was indoctrinated the whole game because my ending choice was the same type of choice I made through the whole ME series?

You see where you guys are flawed?  The game can't tell you that you picked this because you were indoctrinated if the personality you gave Shepard from the beginning reflected this choice.

You were able to be the type of person who would pick control or merge from the first conversation option in ME1, therefore indoctrination is not needed.  Your motives were the same ones that most likely didn't change even at the end of the series, and THAT is the reason for your choice.

Its like the game TELLING me I saved Ashley because I loved her, when that wasn't the motivation for my choice, I saved her because she is a female, this is why I made the decision as a player.  My future conversation options affirmed to Ashley the reasons why I saved her, not the game forcing me.




You takeing things to literaly, and your blinded by your own trolling to see what you are saying. You just told use your a troll, and now not every single god dam thing you do counts for IT. Shepard again is under going Indocctrination. Only we the player have to choose, if Shepard get's Indoctrinated, or not.


You not reading what I said.

Why would the Reapers need to indoctrinate a player who played an Anti-Hero when left alone he would have made the same decision anyways.

Everybody's Shepard wasn't this GOOD guy who was willing to get himself killed for the sake of other people.  Some people's Shepard was always selfish in the first place.  So there is no need to indoctrinate him.  There is no need for him to be TRICKED into doing something he would have done in the first place.

And its not like the Reapers win if they are controlled or merged with organics...and Reapers are already merged with organic material, so that really doesn't change who they are.

I'll be honest. If you started with a post like this you would have gotten a lot more out of everyone. 

XMEFan wrote...
If your decisions was influenced by anything, it was your personality as a player.

Now in mass effect if I picked what you guys think the reapers wanted me to pick, that underminds my decision as a player....it tells me I picked this being I was indoctrinated, when in reality I picked it so my character wouldn't die or for 1000 other reasons as  A PERSON.

I am Shepard, so if I picked this choice, I obviously did it because I wanted to, because I was able to pick any other choice, and I've made similar choices throughout the series.

Ok this I agree with that the personality of the player actually influences the choices they make. Because I tend to be a paragon type of player I walked into the whole save everyone line the catalyst said and initially chose synthesis even though I had a guide telling me that destroy with the breath scene was higher up on the EMS scale.   The reapers obviously have their own agenda and would love for you to pick a certain choice but they have to have you freely choose it doing as you say, making a player defined choice.  The game though tries to convince us of other "possibilities" and we can easily become influenced by them based on what we as the player wants. This is why we have the wonderful debate about which of the four choices is right. 
By the way if this game told me blatantly up front that Shepard becomes indoctrinated if I make the wrong choices, I might have played all 3 games different making tons of different choices. Because it doesn't tell you up front I am making choices that I hope won't bite me later because like I said earlier I like making paragon choices and some of those choices well have come back to bite me 
Though right now I would probably make most of them again because some of them helps advance the story in a good bad way

#49193
masster blaster

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

*snip*

Also Hanar what do you think of this?


Unconvincing and some points are even meaningless.


I could go on and debunk every single point made step by step, but honestly, I don't have the time nor do I care enough about this to do so.


I bet you you can't.


That's why you don't have the time. When I posted this in the Synthesis, and Control threads a while back they got so angry they went on a killing sprea on ITers.

You on the other had can't do it. I mean come on what you going to say bad writing. please. Or what um you can't can you without using bad writing. try it without using bad writing.

Modifié par masster blaster, 21 novembre 2012 - 06:06 .


#49194
Wayning_Star

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EXMEFan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

Look I'm going to make a realistic point, and I'm done trolling here, I was going to save this til I understood more, but I think I know what you guys are saying.  You are saying if you picked a choice other than destroy, that you were indoctrinated.  Well check this out:

The ending of this game is the exact same ending of Deus Ex human revolution, where it just gave you 4 choices to make you feel like you decided how the game ended.  

If your decisions was influenced by anything, it was your personality as a player.

Now in mass effect if I picked what you guys think the reapers wanted me to pick, that underminds my decision as a player....it tells me I picked this being I was indoctrinated, when in reality I picked it so my character wouldn't die or for 1000 other reasons as  A PERSON.

I am Shepard, so if I picked this choice, I obviously did it because I wanted to, because I was able to pick any other choice, and I've made similar choices throughout the series.



How can a game tell me I picked a choice because I was indoctrinated when I picked it because I believe people should live in harmony or because I wanted to control the Reapers because I was an **** since ME1?  What if my decision throughout the game reflected this final choice, are you going to say I was indoctrinated the whole game because my ending choice was the same type of choice I made through the whole ME series?

You see where you guys are flawed?  The game can't tell you that you picked this because you were indoctrinated if the personality you gave Shepard from the beginning reflected this choice.

You were able to be the type of person who would pick control or merge from the first conversation option in ME1, therefore indoctrination is not needed.  Your motives were the same ones that most likely didn't change even at the end of the series, and THAT is the reason for your choice.

Its like the game TELLING me I saved Ashley because I loved her, when that wasn't the motivation for my choice, I saved her because she is a female, this is why I made the decision as a player.  My future conversation options affirmed to Ashley the reasons why I saved her, not the game forcing me.




You takeing things to literaly, and your blinded by your own trolling to see what you are saying. You just told use your a troll, and now not every single god dam thing you do counts for IT. Shepard again is under going Indocctrination. Only we the player have to choose, if Shepard get's Indoctrinated, or not.


You not reading what I said.

Why would the Reapers need to indoctrinate a player who played an Anti-Hero when left alone he would have made the same decision anyways.

Everybody's Shepard wasn't this GOOD guy who was willing to get himself killed for the sake of other people.  Some people's Shepard was always selfish in the first place.  So there is no need to indoctrinate him.  There is no need for him to be TRICKED into doing something he would have done in the first place.

And its not like the Reapers win if they are controlled or merged with organics...and Reapers are already merged with organic material, so that really doesn't change who they are.


The reason why is because we said this to you on the first page when you showed up, but no you didn't read it, you just trolled am I right.

That's the point. Who controls Shepard we do. Bioware knows that Shepard can't make the choice because the player Controls SHepard, which is why Bioware Indoctrinates the player with the endings. It's simple who has the power we do, but look what happence when our squad it not with Shepard. He/she is lost.


Um they live that's a huge win. You save the Reapers. Oh  no I can't kill teh Reapers because the leader of teh Reaper says I will kill my friends EDI, and tehGeht, and I will die. bs I mean come on it hates Destroy. You can tell it does, and why on Earth in Control we can't Control all SYnthesitcs, where in Destroy we kill them all?

That's just it. i can't explain anything to you because you shut IT out the moment you can on this thread.


You forget that the device was made by different civilizations, the choices weren't made by the star child, it was obviously made by finishing the device by whoever made the blue prints.

Its a poorly concieved ending.  Indoctrinated or not, Shepard is still presented with consequences associated with each choice.  You don't need indoctrination to realize if you pick destory all Synthetics some of your friends, and the geth will die, thats actually a human choice.

The BS comes in with the fact Bioware tried to make an ending that would make a person think twice about their actions, and it end up being something this generic, and confusing.

Thus it spawns BS like this thread.   It was a bad ending.  

But you don't need indoctrination to make somebody make any of those decisions, they basically had risk and rewards associated with them by default.  I just wanted the choice to walk away, which was added in the EC. 

And the reason I pick refuse was because I rather lose like a man, other than make any of those choices......as long as I did what I could.

Somebody else reason probably would have been different.....but thats why they are Shepard, to make the choice for themselves.


boooo refusers...ahhhhhh!! lol

I chose synthesis just because it's canon. The MEU demands change, otherwise, they're stuck in the trap set by nature... Never argue with Mother Nature, you'll lose every time.

#49195
Guest_magnetite_*

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Indeed. Reusing assets and especially textures is a common thing in video-games where textures take up lots of storage space. It's called "modular texturing". Look it up. it's nothing new and it most certainly is NOT a clue, hint, proof or evidence for the IT.


Whatever. As far as I'm concerned we go could go on about this for ages. At the end of the day, there's more than enough *proof* in the game to say that's what the ending is. You don't need a developer to confirm every single detail or to say that's what was intended.

I've been kind of thinking about maybe taking a break from all this. It's driving me a little bonkers.

I though I had blocked some of these guys (EXMEFan), but their posts still show up instead of being hidden.

Modifié par magnetite, 21 novembre 2012 - 06:07 .


#49196
EXMEFan

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masster blaster wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

The theory just fails. If my Shepard was a controlling bastard in the first place, before the Reapers even showed up, there is no reason to indoctrinate me to do something I was going to do anyways.

And there is no benefit for the Reapers in none of the choices except refuse, which wasn't an original choice:

1. Control - They were being controlled anyways....and why would they want Shepard to control them?
2. Sythesis- They were already part organic and part mechanical anyways, and that choices was stupid anyways because it doesn't change anything but DNA, and not political motives and other things that cause chaos.
3. Destroy- Obvious

And either way the mass relays and the citadel was destroyed....so the Reapers would have been stuck in the SOL system for a very long time, and it would have taken them forever to come back in 50,000 years, they couldn't continue their mission, unless you refused, which wasn't an original choice.

I mean none of it makes sense, even the game as is doesn't make sense. It was a bad job at the end by Bioware, thats all I'm trying to say.


IF you don't understand the endings, then why are you here. You want to understand IT, you want to know why, why did ME3 is this way. But your to into bad writing, you don't see what ITers see. So open your mind to IT, and everything you want to know will be explained, but keep this up, and you won't get nothing.


I don't want to understand it, because I know it doesn't exist, with 100% certainty.  You are basically just saying if you picked any choice that left the Reapers alive you were indoctrinated, but if you been making choices like that the whole game, there would be no need for you to be indoctrinated to pick something you would have picked anyways.

You as the player determines the reason why you picked each choice.  The game never tries to explain your reason for the choice, because it can't, because it can't tell you this is why you made a choice.

Just like it didn't explain the reason why you saved Ashley or didn't kill Wrex.  The game doesn't iron fist your choices with its own literary reason for choosing.  It lets the consequences of your choices play out, but it never assumes you made a choice for any reason. 

I just can't believe you guys are this dumb.

#49197
EXMEFan

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magnetite wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Indeed. Reusing assets and especially textures is a common thing in video-games where textures take up lots of storage space. It's called "modular texturing". Look it up. it's nothing new and it most certainly is NOT a clue, hint, proof or evidence for the IT.


Whatever. As far as I'm concerned we go could go on about this for ages. At the end of the day, there's more than enough *proof* in the game to say that's what the ending is. You don't need a developer to confirm every single detail or to say that's what was intended.

I've been kind of thinking about maybe taking a break from all this. It's driving me a little bonkers.


Theres no proof at all.  The fact is you get to choose.  If my guy was a butthole the whole game and chooses control, that is directly in his nature.  He does not need to be tricked into making that choice....

And he doesn't even LOOK indoctrinated at all even when he makes the choice.  There is something unhumanly, and a struggle going on when somebody gets indoctrinated.

Shepard is talking perfect english, has clear thoughts, and everything at the end.  Where as the Illusive Man was wigging out, and still end up defeating the indoctrination by kill himself. 

So if you were at the same stage the Illusive man was at, at the point where you can lose control, or regain it, wouldn't you guys been acting the same way?

Illusive man didn't have a scratch on him, and he was acting crazy.  Your guy looked like hell, and was acting normal.

You guys are just making up stuff, while ignoring the clear cut facts.  

#49198
CmdrShep80

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By the way don't forget to invite me to mark IV if t does get locked. In case I can't find it for some reason.

#49199
masster blaster

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EXMEFan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

EXMEFan wrote...

The theory just fails. If my Shepard was a controlling bastard in the first place, before the Reapers even showed up, there is no reason to indoctrinate me to do something I was going to do anyways.

And there is no benefit for the Reapers in none of the choices except refuse, which wasn't an original choice:

1. Control - They were being controlled anyways....and why would they want Shepard to control them?
2. Sythesis- They were already part organic and part mechanical anyways, and that choices was stupid anyways because it doesn't change anything but DNA, and not political motives and other things that cause chaos.
3. Destroy- Obvious

And either way the mass relays and the citadel was destroyed....so the Reapers would have been stuck in the SOL system for a very long time, and it would have taken them forever to come back in 50,000 years, they couldn't continue their mission, unless you refused, which wasn't an original choice.

I mean none of it makes sense, even the game as is doesn't make sense. It was a bad job at the end by Bioware, thats all I'm trying to say.


IF you don't understand the endings, then why are you here. You want to understand IT, you want to know why, why did ME3 is this way. But your to into bad writing, you don't see what ITers see. So open your mind to IT, and everything you want to know will be explained, but keep this up, and you won't get nothing.


I don't want to understand it, because I know it doesn't exist, with 100% certainty.  You are basically just saying if you picked any choice that left the Reapers alive you were indoctrinated, but if you been making choices like that the whole game, there would be no need for you to be indoctrinated to pick something you would have picked anyways.

You as the player determines the reason why you picked each choice.  The game never tries to explain your reason for the choice, because it can't, because it can't tell you this is why you made a choice.

Just like it didn't explain the reason why you saved Ashley or didn't kill Wrex.  The game doesn't iron fist your choices with its own literary reason for choosing.  It lets the consequences of your choices play out, but it never assumes you made a choice for any reason. 

I just can't believe you guys are this dumb.


look who is talking. every post you mad on this thread is worthless. Your arguments, your attitude suck. I don't know if you like doing this for fun trolling people I mean, but it's stupid. Your like the people at my shcool. Always pointing the finger at people that are just not normal, and not giving a crap about something in life. Oh why do I even bother. Your head is too clouded, and you don't even understand what IT is. You s ay it's bad, but only you fail to see what IT is, and can do.

#49200
Dwailing

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EXMEFan wrote...

magnetite wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Indeed. Reusing assets and especially textures is a common thing in video-games where textures take up lots of storage space. It's called "modular texturing". Look it up. it's nothing new and it most certainly is NOT a clue, hint, proof or evidence for the IT.


Whatever. As far as I'm concerned we go could go on about this for ages. At the end of the day, there's more than enough *proof* in the game to say that's what the ending is. You don't need a developer to confirm every single detail or to say that's what was intended.

I've been kind of thinking about maybe taking a break from all this. It's driving me a little bonkers.


Theres no proof at all.  The fact is you get to choose.  If my guy was a butthole the whole game and chooses control, that is directly in his nature.  He does not need to be tricked into making that choice....

And he doesn't even LOOK indoctrinated at all even when he makes the choice.  There is something unhumanly, and a struggle going on when somebody gets indoctrinated.

Shepard is talking perfect english, has clear thoughts, and everything at the end.  Where as the Illusive Man was wigging out, and still end up defeating the indoctrination by kill himself. 

So if you were at the same stage the Illusive man was at, at the point where you can lose control, or regain it, wouldn't you guys been acting the same way?

Illusive man didn't have a scratch on him, and he was acting crazy.  Your guy looked like hell, and was acting normal.

You guys are just making up stuff, while ignoring the clear cut facts.  


*Says we're making stuff up*

*Makes stuff up about us by saying that we think Shepard is already indoctrinated*

SEEMS LEGIT!

Oh, and speaking of ignoring clear cut facts, you seem to be conveniently forgetting that Chris Priestly and Michael Gamble have both said that IT is a valid interpetation of the endings.  I don't know if it's actually what's going on at this point, but you have no right to tell us that we're crazy.

Modifié par Dwailing, 21 novembre 2012 - 06:16 .