MegumiAzusa wrote...
You cannot just undo synthesis, that's a problem.
Modifié par demersel, 22 novembre 2012 - 03:45 .
MegumiAzusa wrote...
I just explained the meaning of the quote which you didn't seem to understand...
Interestingly that is exactly what was described on the last page. You are biased towards IT because of your choices towards it. As everything crafted is also flawed in some ways (inconsistencies, rewrites etc) there is no way of telling what was intended to demonstrate what in the first place. So logically you can only assume you cannot know and not biased in any direction.BleedingUranium wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
You are still assuming one of the "solutions" was intended.BleedingUranium wrote...
Megumi, watch the two videos in my signature. They pretty much sum up why "knowing" in the way you're talking about isn't required.
I am. There's a lot of evidence to support one very well thought out view, and overwhelming amout, and very little for anything else.
Restrider posted this video earlier today, and it pretty much sums up my views on IT. Could IT be wrong? Sure it could! But I would be extremely surprised, like the one guy mentions about plate tectonics being disproved. It's possible, but that doesn't mean much to me.
Andromidius wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
I just explained the meaning of the quote which you didn't seem to understand...
No, I understood it for what it was - retrorical philosophical nonsense. Apperently you didn't understand that.
use "demagogy". It is shorter and sounds smarter.
MegumiAzusa wrote...
Interestingly that is exactly what was described on the last page. You are biased towards IT because of your choices towards it. As everything crafted is also flawed in some ways (inconsistencies, rewrites etc) there is no way of telling what was intended to demonstrate what in the first place. So logically you can only assume you cannot know and not biased in any direction.
If you call it nonsense you don't understand it.Andromidius wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
I just explained the meaning of the quote which you didn't seem to understand...
No, I understood it for what it was - retrorical philosophical nonsense. Apperently you didn't understand that.
Guest_SwobyJ_*
demersel wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
Interestingly that is exactly what was described on the last page. You are biased towards IT because of your choices towards it. As everything crafted is also flawed in some ways (inconsistencies, rewrites etc) there is no way of telling what was intended to demonstrate what in the first place. So logically you can only assume you cannot know and not biased in any direction.
What's your point?
SwobyJ wrote...
Damn that Halo 4 ending scene rocks.
I gave kudos to the narrative designer on Facebook. I'm so glad she was picked up for that game.
Guest_SwobyJ_*
BleedingUranium wrote...
demersel wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
Interestingly that is exactly what was described on the last page. You are biased towards IT because of your choices towards it. As everything crafted is also flawed in some ways (inconsistencies, rewrites etc) there is no way of telling what was intended to demonstrate what in the first place. So logically you can only assume you cannot know and not biased in any direction.
What's your point?
Yeah, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I just said I can't know with 100% certainty, no one can unless Bioware officially confirms or denies what's happening. But I'm saying that not important or needed.
Guest_SwobyJ_*
BleedingUranium wrote...
SwobyJ wrote...
Damn that Halo 4 ending scene rocks.
I gave kudos to the narrative designer on Facebook. I'm so glad she was picked up for that game.
The entire last mission, from the moment John wakes up before it, reminded me of what we're missing in ME3. It was so epic!
Now that was an endrun! They pretty much did it perfectly, right down to the gradually building up music.BleedingUranium wrote...
SwobyJ wrote...
Damn that Halo 4 ending scene rocks.
I gave kudos to the narrative designer on Facebook. I'm so glad she was picked up for that game.
The entire last mission, from the moment John wakes up before it, reminded me of what we're missing in ME3. It was so epic!
Wow, that was very interesting to read. Hey Spot.spotlessvoid wrote...
Megumi is making the mistake many do when quoting buddhist concepts. The existence of things is not denied, only the accuracy of our perception of them. Mental constructs are inaccurate representations of reality. The lesson in that story is irrelevant to discussions on fiction. Fiction is the realm of the intellect, therefore a quote regarding the inherent fallacy of intellect (mind) is so far removed from the discussion that it's wisdom is meaningless. The teacher is reminding his students that enlightenment is reached by seeing beyond intellect. That quote mocks Megumi's very reason for being in the thread, but the irony escapes her.
Guest_SwobyJ_*
spotlessvoid wrote...
Megumi is making the mistake many do when quoting buddhist concepts. The existence of things is not denied, only the accuracy of our perception of them. Mental constructs are inaccurate representations of reality. The lesson in that story is irrelevant to discussions on fiction. Fiction is the realm of the intellect, therefore a quote regarding the inherent fallacy of intellect (mind) is so far removed from the discussion that it's wisdom is meaningless. The teacher is reminding his students that enlightenment is reached by seeing beyond intellect. That quote mocks Megumi's very reason for being in the thread, but the irony escapes her.
Modifié par SwobyJ, 22 novembre 2012 - 04:09 .
Guest_SwobyJ_*
SwobyJ wrote...
Hey everyone.
I've had like one major project due each day lately (...) so I haven't been able to catch up on this thread.
Butttt, in my Psychology class, we were shown an interesting TED talk.
View it in the context of the 'Citadel' actually being a walk through Shepard's mind, and the Catalyst choice being a visualization of both Shepard's, and the player's mental process and reaction to being given choice of such magnitude.
I think this video is VERY important, thematically.
www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html
"When our fears are bounded, we're prudent; we're cautious; we're thoughtful. When our fears are unbounded and overblown, we're reckless, and we're cowardly."
And lol from the comments: "SYNTHESIS ONLY WORKS UP TO A CERTAIN LEVEL."
"Once we make a decision on something, our mind will then synthesise happiness and exaggerate the goodness of the thing we have chosen, therefore making it now appear better than it initially seemed in relation to the things we didn't choose. This then distorts our perception of the happiness values we associate with the outcome of such a decision, which will then lead to future decisions being based upon a distorted perception, therefore not basing future decisions rationally on the natural happiness values that we would have once associated with each outcome. So to conclude, dont be ignorant to this process which goes on in our minds, as it can lead to a wildly distorted perception in which the things we think certain things are so much better than the alternative."
If you're wondering about my point, its that if the Catalyst is Harbinger, he is preying on our 'greatest strength and weakness', hope.
We/Shepard envision a beautiful future regardless of the choice, because EMS = HOPE. It's not a realistic description in any choice (even Destroy, in some ways), but the PLAYER will accept what the game shows, because the player wants *oh so badly* for something good to come out of this trilogy, and Shepard's story.
Even if Shepard may actually be knocked out in rubble on London and the Galactic Fleet is in a big ol' trap. That's the nightmare scenario that both Shepard, and the players, are trying to escape, and Harbinger offers us the 'solution', which really isn't a solution at all. But...its the only way that Harbinger can claim Shepard's mind, if he wants to use it for a Reaper.
Exactly. For many players, they just want to feel that whatever choices they make, they were the right ones, or at least the ones to give them closure and happiness about the story.
Even if there are bad decisions made.
IMO Synthesis and Control are manipulations on this strength and weakness of the prefrontal cortex.
"Isn't this talk just saying: Enjoy the process of all you do in life, don't over invest in the outcomes as they are never as "good" as we imagine them to be, and be sure that the process you are busy enjoying is a noble one so as to lead to a good future not a ****y one."
Ha. Reminds me of Legion: The process is as important as the outcome. (or words to that effect)
Sorry, but these comments are so interesting!
"But it´s not lying, it´s a defence to endure the hardness of life. Sometimes the truth is to hard to bear. We are blinded by it, it hurts us. We can´t endure all the truth sometimes, so we have defences to help us settle with reality. If you are an optimist, you would say it leaves you time to find what you want later, if you are pesimistic, it might mean that you conform and lose.
I choose both."
"Watching this video made me question how emotions even work. Emotions are controlled by the limbic system in the brain, it is also known as the “emotional center.” The hypothalamus controls molecules that make you feel happy or unhappy. The brain produces chemicals that are connected with the physiological processes of the body so it can sense what the body is feeling."
"Whoa. This is unsettling.
If we can really be happy when we get what we want, and when we don't get what we want (and i know this myself to be true) then I hope that every person is UNHAPPY forever.
Why? Because if we convinced ourselves that every single thing we didn't get is actually not important and we are happier with the opposite result, then there would be stagnation. What should drive us? Why should we strive for being better persons, better bosses?
This is exactly what every totalitarism system wants, every dictator's dream. A people that will, when faced with fear and force will bend their happiness to protect themselves.
Then, what this means is that unhappy people, those who don't accommodate to circumstances and keep fighting them they will be unhappy and tragic, yes, but they will be the catalyst of change, and of better worlds.
As they say, Ignorance is Bliss. But I made my choice a long time ago; to be unhappy but to maintain my ability to change my surroundings. "
WOW. Put that into the Indoctrination Theory, and you'll see how disturbing the 'Catalyst' is. Final boss, indeed.
"Now, all of a sudden, "the cake is a lie" seems so poignant. The problem is people always feel like they do have control. Maybe more people should understand that they are Not in control. The whole world, and especially the human brain, is a chaotic system. We have limited control at best. This is our coping mechanism. And even if this is supposedly "fake" happiness, it by far predated "genuine happiness."
Problem is: i Would rather be Socrates dissatisfied (and schizophrenic apparently), than a pig satisfied, Satisfaction or happiness is not the goal. For me, learning is the goal. Ironically, sometimes by forsaking the holy grail, you stumble upon it.
Well actually, according to Dan Gilbert (and Adam Smith before him) , this happens almost All the time."
I feel like I've hit a gold mine here. And... I highly respect Bioware at this point. Yep, I'm a firm ITer now.
Wow, thanks Banshee! youtu.be/vvfxOXcaSIM
I'm actually more excited than ever for more Mass Effect content, at this point.
Honestly, if IT is true, then (and don't think I'm going crazy about this idea, because I'm not) I'll feel pretty vindicated about my ideas of writing and perceptual analysis in narrative, and it'll really push me forward into getting into narrative design as a career.
Oh, and my boyfriend is meeting his Bioware friend sometime soon to catch up. He'll maybe bring up indoc theory, ha!
EDIT: It's interesting how 'Harbinger' (yes I know that's not really him in Halo 4) talks about humanity, and using gardening/horticulture/agriculture metaphor while doing so.
It... reminds me of the theory that Alliance may be the heroes of ME3, but maybe not quite so in a ME4.... in fact, they may be the enemy.
Glad you liked itSwobyJ wrote...
Wow, thanks Banshee! youtu.be/vvfxOXcaSIM
I'm actually more excited than ever for more Mass Effect content, at this point.
Honestly, if IT is true, then (and don't think I'm going crazy about this idea, because I'm not) I'll feel pretty vindicated about my ideas of writing and perceptual analysis in narrative, and it'll really push me forward into getting into narrative design as a career.
Oh, and my boyfriend is meeting his Bioware friend sometime soon to catch up. He'll maybe bring up indoc theory, ha!
EDIT: It's interesting how 'Harbinger' (yes I know that's not really him in Halo 4) talks about humanity, and using gardening/horticulture/agriculture metaphor while doing so.
It... reminds me of the theory that Alliance may be the heroes of ME3, but maybe not quite so in a ME4.... in fact, they may be the enemy.
I feel this was lost in the discussion. Night all!
Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 22 novembre 2012 - 04:22 .
Modifié par spotlessvoid, 22 novembre 2012 - 04:29 .
Guest_SwobyJ_*
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Glad you liked itSwobyJ wrote...
Wow, thanks Banshee! youtu.be/vvfxOXcaSIM
I'm actually more excited than ever for more Mass Effect content, at this point.
Honestly, if IT is true, then (and don't think I'm going crazy about this idea, because I'm not) I'll feel pretty vindicated about my ideas of writing and perceptual analysis in narrative, and it'll really push me forward into getting into narrative design as a career.
Oh, and my boyfriend is meeting his Bioware friend sometime soon to catch up. He'll maybe bring up indoc theory, ha!
EDIT: It's interesting how 'Harbinger' (yes I know that's not really him in Halo 4) talks about humanity, and using gardening/horticulture/agriculture metaphor while doing so.
It... reminds me of the theory that Alliance may be the heroes of ME3, but maybe not quite so in a ME4.... in fact, they may be the enemy.
I feel this was lost in the discussion. Night all!
I, too, thought his lines about horticulture werevery interesting as well, simply because they could so easily be about harvesting. In fact, he talks about harvesting in the game... and synthesis, ascendance, choice, preserving the protagonists body etc.
'.
Guest_Commander Casanova_*
Rifneno wrote...
6,488 pages and we're still at the point where we can't just discuss stuff without somebody blathering on about proof. Depressing.
Guest_SwobyJ_*
spotlessvoid wrote...
Hey Banshee!
@Swoby
Well, buddhism would say there is only the movement of energy from which transitory states of being take form. The apple exists, but only as an aggregate of interdependent phenomena, and most importantly only has meaning as an apple in your mind. Meaning, you can eat it when you're hungry, but there is no inherent "appleness" in an apple, only a mental construct based on your perspective assigns it this quality.
Why did you change your name?Commander Casanova wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
6,488 pages and we're still at the point where we can't just discuss stuff without somebody blathering on about proof. Depressing.
Do you have proof to confirm this theory of yours?
Commander Casanova wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
6,488 pages and we're still at the point where we can't just discuss stuff without somebody blathering on about proof. Depressing.
Do you have proof to confirm this theory of yours?
Guest_Commander Casanova_*
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Why did you change your name?Commander Casanova wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
6,488 pages and we're still at the point where we can't just discuss stuff without somebody blathering on about proof. Depressing.
Do you have proof to confirm this theory of yours?
SwobyJ wrote...
spotlessvoid wrote...
Hey Banshee!
@Swoby
Well, buddhism would say there is only the movement of energy from which transitory states of being take form. The apple exists, but only as an aggregate of interdependent phenomena, and most importantly only has meaning as an apple in your mind. Meaning, you can eat it when you're hungry, but there is no inherent "appleness" in an apple, only a mental construct based on your perspective assigns it this quality.
Yeah. The 'apple is just an apple', but its also much more than that, based on subjective experience and perception.
I just think its funny how she first says that, but then talks about something kinda opposite to it.
"This is how the story should be taken"
"No wait, the story can be taken in many ways!"
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