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[spotlessvoid]

Megumi isn't doing anyone any favors when she demeans people for posting things they find important, or when she insults people, or when she tries to dictate how the thread should be run. Personally, I've made it very clear that being a voice of dissent is a good thing, and that I appreciate her trying to be the voice of reason. But I have seen her repeatedly insulting some of the nicest people in the thread, and despite her making often excellent points, she's become incredibly negative and rude. She sure as hell isn't doing it out of the kindness of her heart. I don't feel the need to conform to whatever vision she has for the thread. This is a video game discussion, fun is just as important, maybe even more important, than rigorous standards or staying on topic 24/7. Her condescending and bossy attitude sucks

[Davik Kang]

Damn I'm still here, laptop in bed, I am obsessive, need sleep...

spotlessvoid wrote...
Megumi isn't doing anyone any favors when she demeans people for posting things they find important, or when she insults people, or when she tries to dictate how the thread should be run. Personally, I've made it very clear that being a voice of dissent is a good thing, and that I appreciate her trying to be the voice of reason. But I have seen her repeatedly insulting some of the nicest people in the thread, and despite her making often excellent points, she's become incredibly negative and rude. She sure as hell isn't doing it out of the kindness of her heart. I don't feel the need to conform to whatever vision she has for the thread. This is a video game discussion, fun is just as important, maybe even more important, than rigorous standards or staying on topic 24/7. Her condescending and bossy attitude sucks

Ok, and I agree that it really could crush the thread if everyone is on serious mode all the time, and treating this as an intellectual exercise, rather than friendly chat on a forum.  I agree that sometimes Megumi goes about making her points the wrong way, and also that it's important to stay positive and not get too serious.

It's just that from a (relatively) neutral perspective, there are very rarely the kind of dissenting voices that she represents.  Good points and bad points get ignored in equal measure, and it's difficult to know how a given idea was taken if there's no feedback.

Some stuff just needs that dissenting voice imo.  To give an example, and honestly sorry to those who'll be offended by this, but e.g. posting a picture of the final choices with the red and blue colour channels reversed was one of the stupidest things I have ever seen.  "Confirmation bias" gets thrown around on forums but oh my god.  Now if people browsing this thread and see stuff like that get a few appreciative nods and no opposite view expressed, you can't then be that surprised when people dismiss IT after browsing maybe only one or two pages.

[spotlessvoid]

Yeah, I get it. We need to challenge each other more. But you know what? Anyone that forms their opinion of IT from a few pages in the middle of the thread isn't really trying to understand it anyways. We're 8 months in, there's not much to talk about, and people enjoy each others company while we wait to see where this ride is taking us. So yeah, meaningless stuff is going to get brought up. But I'd rather have that then the thread dying on the vine. Do good posts get missed? Unfortunately yes, but different people are on here at any given moment and there's nothing wrong with self bumping a post later on. This is a relatively tight knit group, and that's a big part of what keeps people interested in continuing all this speculation. Someone can disagree without insulting people, ESPECIALLY when they aren't insulting them.

[JMDekker2]

Seeing as it's been going on in the last few pages...1993 REPRESENT B**CHES, best year ever.
 I'm Commander Shepard and this is my ah screw it

Modifié par JMDekker2, 23 novembre 2012 - 05:07 .

[spotlessvoid]

And btw, your post about the trial a few pages back....are you suggesting what I think you're suggesting?

[DoomsdayDevice]

Reposting this with more clarification on how I'm interpreting this.

Okay, first off: my apologies if this has been noticed before. It's new to me, and if it isn't new, well, it's worth bringing it up again.

Secondly, I realize this will make me look like a complete tinfoil crazy, and it proves nothing, but it's too cool not to bring it up.

Here we go. SPECULATION TIME!

Having dug into a lot of dialogue recently, I can't help but notice there's a lot of 4th wall breaking stuff in the game. Stuff with a double meaning.

From Ashes - Eden Prime

Three datapads.

First dapatad:



Eden Prime = Earth
Colony = Galaxy
Dr. William Cambiata = Commander Shepard
Cerberus = Reaper

Is this an explanation that the ending is a Reaper trap? It is completely consistent with IT.

IMO it could mean something like this:

Resistance information update. We've gotten word from our source within Earth's resistance movement (COATS - who else?) that we can expect an attack on our security center (the beacon or maybe even : the Citadel!) between 2200 and 2300 PM tomorrow night. They're pulling in forces from across the galaxy--this gives us the perfect chance to destroy their leadership. Once the attack is contained, allow Commander Shepard to escape, firing near-miss shots to keep it realistic. He's given us good information (built the crucible for us), and with luck, the locals (organics) will see him as a daring hero and the only man to escape the Reaper trap. They might even put him in charge! (Imagine the consequences of putting an indoctrinated Shepard in charge of the entire galactic fleet!)

Second datapad:



Colony = Galaxy.

Is this an explanation that the Reapers are actually with far fewer than we think? Do they only have a large presence in the 'south-west' of the galaxy to make it seem like they're with much more? Is this a clue that we could have a conventional victory?

Third datapad:



Maintain the story as long as possible? Bioware PR plan?

This third datapad could be talking about how they've indoctrinated players through control and synthesis (pacified - in those two endings you throw your gun away - you stop fighting - also, pacified, as in indoctrinated) The rest could be translated like:  The players have generally accepted the story that they have achieved peace, etcetera. Increasing DLC (?) as "payment for the work". Maintain the lie as long as we can. We don't have the manpower to fight the entire fandom, and if these players knew they would in fact die, there's no way they'd make those choices. (Cooperate - by choosing control/synthesis)

I propose we call controllers & synthesizers the 'pacified neighbourhoods' from now on. xD

I mean seriously, could this just be Bioware subliminally telling us that the ending was a trap, conventional victory is possible and that we'll have to wait until they stop lying?

One more thing.

At the start of the mission, my Earthborn Shepard said this:

"The city on Earth where I grew up was hard and dirty. I can see it as a war zone."

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 23 novembre 2012 - 05:16 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

Davik Kang wrote...

Damn I'm still here, laptop in bed, I am obsessive, need sleep...

spotlessvoid wrote...
Megumi isn't doing anyone any favors when she demeans people for posting things they find important, or when she insults people, or when she tries to dictate how the thread should be run. Personally, I've made it very clear that being a voice of dissent is a good thing, and that I appreciate her trying to be the voice of reason. But I have seen her repeatedly insulting some of the nicest people in the thread, and despite her making often excellent points, she's become incredibly negative and rude. She sure as hell isn't doing it out of the kindness of her heart. I don't feel the need to conform to whatever vision she has for the thread. This is a video game discussion, fun is just as important, maybe even more important, than rigorous standards or staying on topic 24/7. Her condescending and bossy attitude sucks

Ok, and I agree that it really could crush the thread if everyone is on serious mode all the time, and treating this as an intellectual exercise, rather than friendly chat on a forum.  I agree that sometimes Megumi goes about making her points the wrong way, and also that it's important to stay positive and not get too serious.

It's just that from a (relatively) neutral perspective, there are very rarely the kind of dissenting voices that she represents.  Good points and bad points get ignored in equal measure, and it's difficult to know how a given idea was taken if there's no feedback.

Some stuff just needs that dissenting voice imo.  To give an example, and honestly sorry to those who'll be offended by this, but e.g. posting a picture of the final choices with the red and blue colour channels reversed was one of the stupidest things I have ever seen.  "Confirmation bias" gets thrown around on forums but oh my god.  Now if people browsing this thread and see stuff like that get a few appreciative nods and no opposite view expressed, you can't then be that surprised when people dismiss IT after browsing maybe only one or two pages.

In 6000 plus pages of conversation on the theory its ineviteble that theorists will start examining the story under a microscope to find additional clues. Its the reader's damn fault if he wants to drop in on page 2139 and decide that whatever random speculation is being discussed on that page sums up IT entirely.

Theres a front page with links for a reason. It'd be nice if people would take a look at them before deciding ITers are nothing more than crackpot conspiracy theorists, basing this conclusion off of nothing more than somoene having fun with an inverse colored desicion chamber.

[Davik Kang]

spotlessvoid wrote...

And btw, your post about the trial a few pages back....are you suggesting what I think you're suggesting?

After fumbling around with the forum formatting controls for about 15 minutes I finally managed to grey out the "what I'm thinking" bit... unfortunately I don't know what I think you're suggesting as I don't see any greyed out grey matter on your post ...

And ok when you put it like "We need to challenge each other more" then I can see how I'm getting too close to trying to dictate how the thread works, which I have absolutely no business doing... no-one in here needs to do anything... I guess I was just expressing how I see Megumi's posts.  

But the group camaraderie in this thread is unique on BSN and is way more important than what I'm babbling about... I think a lot of trolls post in here not so much because they're secret IT believers but more because they wish they could enjoy this kind of atmmosphere on the forums...

[Davik Kang]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...
In 6000 plus pages of conversation on the theory its ineviteble that theorists will start examining the story under a microscope to find additional clues. Its the reader's damn fault if he wants to drop in on page 2139 and decide that whatever random speculation is being discussed on that page sums up IT entirely.

Theres a front page with links for a reason. It'd be nice if people would take a look at them before deciding ITers are nothing more than crackpot conspiracy theorists, basing this conclusion off of nothing more than somoene having fun with an inverse colored desicion chamber.

I know but I was illustrating an example.  Those who think "Crackpot Conspiracy" were probably always gonna think so, but I'm more talking about people in between.

I concede that the negativity is poisonous, and that the last thing the thread needs is a list of evidentiary rules to adhere to.  I don't think that's at the core of Megumi's reasoning though, even though it can come across this way.

And there is a certain expextancy of people making judgments on a thread mased on a few sample pages.  E.g. I doubt anyone here has read the full 400+ pages in the Control Support and SSynthesis Compendium threads combined.  I'm not saying you should, I'm more saying that people can't really be expected to put the effort into understanding IT if they don't already believe it has worth.

[lex0r11]

DK and others are right about the "distraction from time to time" part. You can't stay focused on a discussion like this 24/7 and refreshing "monkey business" should be allowed from time to time. I've been saying this a couple of times in all 3 threads and distracting people with pictures maybe too much.

But in the case of this particular thread, I feel it was the right way to go because this is really a mixture of serious discussion and a lot of people having a fun time together chatting about interests they have in common.

So I'll stick around as long as I can and keep doing what I did for so many months, unless Creator Byne™ tells me to stop of course. ;D

[ThisOneIsPunny]

Most people that bash IT or are on the fence about it also don't seem to know or understand that IT isn't a single solid theory.

[Davik Kang]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Most people that bash IT or are on the fence about it also don't seem to know or understand that IT isn't a single solid theory.

The discussions with Wayning and Hanar recently did highlight just how poorly even some regular non-ITer posters on BSN understand the theory.

[spotlessvoid]

The fundamental difference is the approach. You take great care to be respectful of others. I really do wish Megumi would pull back on the negativity, because I like a lot of what she has to say, and I really don't want to fight with her. I'm tired of it. Like Lex said, she's been part of this thread for a long time, and has earned her place. But insulting people to the point that some have been upset enough by it that they seriously considered leaving the thread is not okay, and it completely takes away from all the thought provoking things she has to share.

[Gwyphon]

There's a fine line between informing and imposing.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

Davik Kang wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Most people that bash IT or are on the fence about it also don't seem to know or understand that IT isn't a single solid theory.

The discussions with Wayning and Hanar recently did highlight just how poorly even some regular non-ITer posters on BSN understand the theory.

I can't say I'm surprised. They weren't around for the whole debate over when the hallucination actually starts(Similarities in London to Palaven and other places, black screen after mako/hammerhead crashes, hole in wall during Cerberus Assault mission where you can see into Space, other things) and whether Shepard was simply out cold or experiencing a waking nightmare(Was this what prompted Waking Nightmare Theory or was it around before then? I can't seem to remember.). That or they engage in selective reading and simplifying.

It's easier to hate on something and call it stupid when you simplify it.

[lex0r11]

spotlessvoid wrote...

The fundamental difference is the approach. You take great care to be respectful of others. I really do wish Megumi would pull back on the negativity, because I like a lot of what she has to say, and I really don't want to fight with her. I'm tired of it. Like Lex said, she's been part of this thread for a long time, and has earned her place. But insulting people to the point that some have been upset enough by it that they seriously considered leaving the thread is not okay, and it completely takes away from all the thought provoking things she has to share.

Don't get me wrong, I once asked Megumi and Rifneno to take their fight somewhere else. But I had a rather exhausting argument with one of our visitors in on of the older threads and I'm not exactly sure anymore if I kept it civil enough.

So I'm always trying NOT to judge any behavior I myself might have showen in the past.

[spotlessvoid]

Davik...it seemed you were implying the whole game is the trial?

[Davik Kang]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Davik...it seemed you were implying the whole game is the trial?

Nope nothing as grandiose as that.  Just that they took what they had for the trial and rewrote it to be the end of the game rather than the start.  Just an idea, nothing really concrete to back it up.  The trial maybe would've been about justifying your actions and, in doing so, demonstrating your beliefs regarding the game's main themes, which is effectively what you do when you pick your ending.

It was just an idea I had when wandering round the Council chambers in ME1, and remembering the brief inquiry with Saren, which is almost like a mini trial.  It has Saren's hologram up at the top left, and an empty stand at the top right, with the Council in the middle and the same drop in front of you which you fall into at the end of ME1 and the Synth ending of ME3.  Might be nothing, just an idea.  I would quote what I wrote earlier in text you can read without having to double-click but I really need to sleep now, I really should've gone to sleep 2 1/2hours ago or more, gn all

[Jadebaby]

Just about my post back on page 1984...

I know neurological pathways have been connected to the 'trees' before, but had anyone been knowledgable enough about how the brain functions to know that the increased haziness of the trees in sequence 2 could be referring to instability and/or deterioration in Shepard's brain?

[lex0r11]

Jade8aby88 wrote...


Just about my post back on page 1984...

I know neurological pathways have been connected to the 'trees' before, but had anyone been knowledgable enough about how the brain functions to know that the increased haziness of the trees in sequence 2 could be referring to instability and/or deterioration in Shepard's brain?

Jade!

Uhm, haziness as in everything is not in its right place or the world being blurry after you wake up after a lousy nap could be a great way to show us that something is off.

Just like everything after the Harbinger beam hit being all blurry in visuals and muffled in sound. Something's off, too muchto be just the effects of a short-term trauma from a close proximity explosion.

Basically everything that is shown to us "wrong" visually means something is very very wrong.

Good point.

Modifié par lex0r11, 23 novembre 2012 - 06:15 .

[spotlessvoid]

Doing some research and I can't find anything specifically supporting it, but it definitely makes sense Jade. You would think they had a reason for doing that, right?

[Lakeshow1986]

Simply the difference between sequence 1 when Shepard has their weapons to sequence 2&3 when they don't suggests a removal of their ability to fight in their dream.

[Lakeshow1986]

I simply cannot shake this quote, really is epic;

"Your mind belongs to me, breathe."

"Ann, what's happening?"

"Your memories give voice to our words. Your nature will be revealed to us, accept this."

Mind boggling to see how the ending isn't an illusion if the Reapers have perfecting enthrallment to give rise to indoctrination! The reapers are even able to manipulate our memories to give the appearance of the child in a glowing angelic light to influence us.

[masster blaster]

So what did I miss?

[BleedingUranium]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...
Also top? On my birth year page? 

Punny... you're in my top of page post spot.