80611 réponses à ce sujet

[ElSuperGecko]

BleedingUranium wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...
EDI:  "Moral decisions should not be made in a vacuum.

Also, Shepard's in space.

BleedingUranium Wins The Thread
Good God, even the literalists can't argue with that one! 

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 23 novembre 2012 - 11:13 .

[BleedingUranium]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...
EDI:  "Moral decisions should not be made in a vacuum.

Also, Shepard's in space.

BleedingUranium Wins The Thread
Good God, even the literalists can't argue with that one! 

B-b-but... invisible protective force field!

I'm off to bed, see you all tomorrow, I hope I don't miss page 2000

[paxxton]

I'm starting to doubt we'll ever see Omega trailer. lol

[ElSuperGecko]

I was going to ask if anyone had seen it yet myself! The DLC will be out by the time the trailer hits at this rate...

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Just a simple brain fart I had that I wanted to share:

For Renegades it's easier to pick the Destroy endings. After all, my Renegade Shepard already destroyed the geth back on Rannoch, so the only real downside of the Destroy option in his case is just EDI. Jep. just EDI, that's all. Since Renegade Shepards usually don't accept that synthetics can be truly alive (if you pick the right Renegade dialogue options), the decision is quickly and easily made. For Renegades such as my Renegade Shepard, there isn't really any downside of the Destroy option.

So, how does that play in the indoctrination theory? Does this mean Renegades are more resistant against indoctrination attempts? 

Sabotaging the Genophage cure is Renegade, for example, but killing the Geth isn't Renegade, it's inaction. You can make peace via a Charm or Intimidate option. Just like getting everyone killed on the suicide mission isn't Renegade, it's sucking at playing properly.

Killing the geth isn't inaction. You deliberately shoot Legion or the geth VI to sabotage his reaper-code upload. Just because the option isn't color-coded doesn't mean it isn't Renegade. It's in the bottom-left corner. It's Renegade. It just doesn't require any charm/intimidate skills to pick that option. 

Choosing to destroy the geth is also not sucking at the game. I chose to destroy them deliberately. I wanted them death, just like I want the reapers death.


So, again, I have to ask: How does this translate to the indoctrination theory? For my Shepard there is no real reason NOT to pick the Destroy option in the end. Does that mean my Shepard is more resistant to indoctrination than any goody-two-shoes Paragon Shepard?

So does that mean that ruthlessness and cold calculus helps you to keep the Reapers out of your brain? 

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 23 novembre 2012 - 11:53 .

[Jadebaby]

paxxton wrote...

I'm starting to doubt we'll ever see Omega trailer. lol

EAWare have to pay people to make their trailers for them....

Since they're selling the dlc for $15 I think that tells us they believe people will buy it anyway...

Therefore awesomesauce trailers are not required.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Just a simple brain fart I had that I wanted to share:

For Renegades it's easier to pick the Destroy endings. After all, my Renegade Shepard already destroyed the geth back on Rannoch, so the only real downside of the Destroy option in his case is just EDI. Jep. just EDI, that's all. Since Renegade Shepards usually don't accept that synthetics can be truly alive (if you pick the right Renegade dialogue options), the decision is quickly and easily made. For Renegades such as my Renegade Shepard, there isn't really any downside of the Destroy option.

So, how does that play in the indoctrination theory? Does this mean Renegades are more resistant against indoctrination attempts? 

Sabotaging the Genophage cure is Renegade, for example, but killing the Geth isn't Renegade, it's inaction. You can make peace via a Charm or Intimidate option. Just like getting everyone killed on the suicide mission isn't Renegade, it's sucking at playing properly.

Killing the geth isn't inaction. You deliberately shoot Legion or the geth VI to sabotage his reaper-code upload. Just because the option isn't color-coded doesn't mean it isn't Renegade. It's in the bottom-left corner. It's Renegade. It just doesn't require any charm/intimidate skills to pick that option. 

Choosing to destroy the geth is also not sucking at the game. I chose to destroy them deliberately. I wanted them death, just like I want the reapers death.


So, again, I have to ask: How does this translate to the indoctrination theory? For my Shepard there is no real reason NOT to pick the Destroy option in the end. Does that mean my Shepard is more resistant to indoctrination than any goody-two-shoes Paragon Shepard?

So does that mean that ruthlessness and cold calculus helps you to keep the Reapers out of your brain? 

Makes sense to me. If you are willing to accomplish something at any cost then it becomes that much harder to persuade someone to not do it.

[Gwyphon]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm starting to doubt we'll ever see Omega trailer. lol

EAWare have to pay people to make their trailers for them....

Since they're selling the dlc for $15 I think that tells us they believe people will buy it anyway...

Therefore awesomesauce trailers are not required.

Your belief is not required. 

[Jadebaby]

Gwyphon wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm starting to doubt we'll ever see Omega trailer. lol

EAWare have to pay people to make their trailers for them....

Since they're selling the dlc for $15 I think that tells us they believe people will buy it anyway...

Therefore awesomesauce trailers are not required.

Your belief is not required. 

Oh snap!

But rly, if they were going to do one, it would have been out by now

[paxxton]

Gwyphon wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm starting to doubt we'll ever see Omega trailer. lol

EAWare have to pay people to make their trailers for them....

Since they're selling the dlc for $15 I think that tells us they believe people will buy it anyway...

Therefore awesomesauce trailers are not required.

Your belief is not required. 

@Jade8aby88: Mike Gamble tweeted a few days ago that they were putting finishing touches on the trailer. It is in the works but I just don't understand why it hasn't been released yet.

[ElSuperGecko]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
So, again, I have to ask: How does this translate to the indoctrination theory? For my Shepard there is no real reason NOT to pick the Destroy option in the end. Does that mean my Shepard is more resistant to indoctrination than any goody-two-shoes Paragon Shepard?
So does that mean that ruthlessness and cold calculus helps you to keep the Reapers out of your brain? 

Could be.  Garrus:  "The ruthless calculus of war - ten billion people here die so twenty billion people there can live"

But in this instance you're saying that you have your agenda, and you're sticking to it.  You intend to pick Destroy, there's no reason for you not to pick Destroy so you're going to do it regardless of what the Catalyst tells you.  So yes, you're resisting indoctrination.   If you went into the final decision intended to pick Destroy, but ended up picking a different option after hearing the Catalyst's choices, then you'd be indoctrinated.

But imho, Paragon/Renegade doesn't really come into the final choice. The red/blue of the Destroy/Contorl endings is a trick, designed to confuse you and throw you off.  Renegade or Paragon, Shepard advocates Destroying the Reapers with Anderson and Hackett.  Renegade or Paragon, Shepard tries to convince TIM that Control is impossible.  Renegade or Paragon, Shepard doesn't even contemplate Synthesis at all until the Catalyst suggests it.

[Jadebaby]

@paxxton, why the fudge do you have a control banner?

[paxxton]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

@paxxton, why the fudge do you have a control banner?

Because I am the Catalyst.

Seriously, I like how Control plays out. In the literal sense, the war is over and you get a bonus working Reaper tech to study.

Modifié par paxxton, 23 novembre 2012 - 12:39 .

[Dwailing]

Huh, so I just had a thought. I think the key to the endings is this: are you looking for peace? or are you looking for victory? Think about it. Synthesis is not victory. It's peace, but it's not victory. Same with Control, though to a lesser extent since in Control you're at least trying to stop the threat.  However, it's only in Destroy that you well and truly achieve VICTORY.  Even Hackett says it in the Destroy monologue.

Modifié par Dwailing, 23 novembre 2012 - 12:41 .

[Jadebaby]

Isn't that a bit contradictory to all your links in your sig?

It's that kind of mentality that makes the literal endings seem good. I feel sick now...

[Andromidius]

BleedingUranium wrote...
But Indoctrination is just more evolved Enthrallment. Put in ME gameplay terms, if it were a power, the Leviathans only had level one Enthrallment, while the Reapers, over time, got it all the way up to six, and renamed it.

The two seem slightly different, Indoctrination makes more use of technology to influence the subject while Enthrallment seems to be a biological process of some kind.  Though we'd need to know more about them to really be sure.

[ElSuperGecko]

paxxton wrote...
Seriously, I like how Control plays out. In the literal sense, the war is over and you get a bonus working Reaper tech to study.

Working Reaper tech to study..?

Garrus:  "Nothing good ever came from Reaper tech!"

JK

[Andromidius]

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, so I just had a thought. I think the key to the endings is this: are you looking for peace? or are you looking for victory? Think about it. Synthesis is not victory. It's peace, but it's not victory. Same with Control, though to a lesser extent since in Control you're at least trying to stop the threat.  However, it's only in Destroy that you well and truly achieve VICTORY.  Even Hackett says it in the Destroy monologue.

Synthesis is as much peace as everyone in the world dying simulanteously.  The conflict is over because there's no-one left.

Actually, scratch that.  The Reapers are still left.  Hense its a defeat.  If you can make your enemies surrender, then you've won, regardless of the conditions.

[paxxton]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Isn't that a bit contradictory to all your links in your sig?

It's that kind of mentality that makes the literal endings seem good. I feel sick now...

Not really. The fact that I support IT as a mind-blowing storytelling device doesn't mean that I have to blindly buy into choosing Destroy at all cost. I like Control from my head-canon standpoint, so I support it too. Actually, Control doesn't prevent Shepard from continuing his fight. In ME4 he could either spend time fighting off Indoctrination in his head or become the new antagonist of the series. Of course, Destroy is the only ending from the IT standpoint that preserves status quo in Shepard's psyche.

Modifié par paxxton, 23 novembre 2012 - 12:50 .

[paxxton]

I also had a though the other day. What if what we see in the ending of ME3 is the same process Saren went through before he fully succumbed to Sovereign's thinking and allowed him to augment his body with Reaper tech. Shepard's gone through a slow Indoctrination throughout the games and now he faces the final choice. In Shepard's case the augmentation might have taken place at the beginning of ME2. But his psyche wasn't ready then to accept Reaper thinking.

[ElSuperGecko]

Just got over shaking my head sadly at the "hate" thread.

Seems to me like ME really is a thinking person's game. i.e. those that stop and think about it enjoy it a lot more than those who don't...

[paxxton]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Just got over shaking my head sadly at the "hate" thread.

Seems to me like ME really is a thinking person's game. i.e. those that stop and think about it enjoy it a lot more than those who don't...

I think that thinking is useful for everything.

[Dwailing]

Huh, just had another thought about peace vs. victory. Remember what Shepard says to Anderson at the beginning? "I'm a soldier, Anderson, I'm no politician." Well, while Shepard DOES make peace a lot throughout the games, he is a SOLDIER. And the job of soldiers is to WIN! Victory.

Modifié par Dwailing, 23 novembre 2012 - 01:07 .

[Restrider]

starlitegirl wrote...

What astounds me is that anyone  would actually trust the reapers. I still find that shocking. They've told you that you are basically worthless and insignificant since ME1 and you're going to trust that they won't harvest or indoctrinate you first chance you get? Lots of naive folks out there to buy that one. I can see it on a first playthrough where you're pulled in by the geth and blindsided by the choices. It was jarring, like in a bad dream. I didn't really think about it much else other than I really was horrified about destroying the geth after working so hard to save them and all the other races. I lost the quarians on that first run, so I still felt bad about it (rewrote heretics and didn't talk to admirals before leaving to save the ship on tali's loyalty mission). But after that first time, you know what's coming. I don't know. I guess people don't look at  things the way we do.

The fun part is that Sovereign told Saren that he would be spared in the end. You have to take into account that Saren knew how Sovereign belittled the Heretics, who were nothing more than tools, but believed that Sovereign thought different of himself.
People have to remember the following:
Reapers lie - deal with it.

Modifié par Restrider, 23 novembre 2012 - 01:20 .

[RavenEyry]

Restrider wrote...

People have to remember the following:
Reapers lie - deal with it.

And they're good at messing with egos.
"Hey Saren Jack Harper Shepard, no one else could do this but I bet you could no problem!"