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[archangel1996]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

magnetite wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

Is BW so smart? I don't think so -.-

I'd believe it. I've only played the Mass Effect series and not any of their other games, but these guys are master story tellers.

Part of me is thinking they planned this whole thing from the start. I know the dark energy thing was the original ending, but they probably had a contingency plan, which was IT. You've always got to have one in case something happens.

I think the dark energy ending was just the 'vehicle' for the same thing. They went with the 'synthetics-organics conflict' vehicle (which I like better), but both are merely ways of motivating people to willingly side with the Reapers.

So, the dark energy ending would have been just as much IT as what we got now, I'm sure.

I hope you are right......

[401 Kill]

demersel wrote...

btw, this time we know that the lockdown is coming and we're ready for it! Perhaps this is the cycle that will defeat Cris Pristly once and for all!

We have no hope of winning that battle, quick, I found these plans for a weapon over here in a Bioware archive! Let's use all of our resources to build it even though we don't know what it does. Then we can set it off when he attempts to lock the thread!

Modifié par 401 Kill, 23 novembre 2012 - 05:30 .

[ElSuperGecko]

#icalledIT

There'll be a comment about 6,000+ pages of speculation in Omega somewhere...

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

My predictions for ME4:

- If you allowed Legion to upload the Reaper code (so you could have peace between Geth and Quarians and the war assets for both factions), you're screwed. Reaper-controlled Geth on the loose.

The Geth have been compromised in ME3, they need to be destroyed.

- If you cured the genophage with Wreav in charge, instead of Wrex, you're screwed. Krogan on the loose.

Regarding the Geth, as I a said before.

I think the code Legion uploaded was only based of the Reaper code and not the Reaper code in itself, Like the Thanix cannon is based of the principals of Sovereigns guns, but it is not Sovereigns guns.

Do I have anything to support this, no, but what i do know is that there is a dozen places where the geth if truly Reaper controlled could have ended the war in seconds. After Legion uploaded the code they could have destroyed the Quarians and captured Shepard, the end, just to name one.

Or in the final battle where the Geth have one of if not the Galaxies strongest fleet (not counting Reapers) and if they turned on us in the final battle it would all be over faster than you can sing "dont fear the Reaper."

So easy a victory for the Reapers if the Geth turned upon us, but they dont.

My own thoughst for ME4? No major threat, at least not one in the galaxy conquering army size (unless they continue the Reaper war). We played that game with ME1-3.

No, I think it will be about a weakened galaxy trying to recover after the war and all the instability that brings. All the major powers in the galaxy was hit hard and there is a massive area once belonging to the Batarains ripe for the taking. Combine that with a few new races on the galactic scene (Krogan, Geth, Quarians, Rahcni) and you got a witch cauldron of factions which all trying rebuild as well as grab some new territory.

And I think that is what we will navigating.

[401 Kill]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

#icalledIT

There'll be a comment about 6,000+ pages of speculation in Omega somewhere...

If that happens, I will ride my bicycle all the way to Bioware headquarters with a suitcase full of money. When I arrive I will plant the suitcase on their doorstep and ride back home.

I do hope this happens though.

[Rifneno]

demersel wrote...

What if ME4 is all about dark energy?

Okay, I'm ready to murder someone over this dark energy ****. Two questions. First, how many times do we have to go through that it makes no sense? None of this "yeah but if they ignore the entire reason it was an intriguing idea to begin with then it could work" drivel either. Second, where did this actually come from? Everyone keeps going on about how it was the original plan but I've never seen any actual evidence of that. It's just an out of control rumor as far as I can see. Everyone takes it as gospel because everyone else takes it as gospel.

Speaking of things that are stupid, page countdowns are stupid. And every post ever that goes "I don't think BW is that smart" without any points to back it up.

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

btw, this time we know that the lockdown is coming and we're ready for it! Perhaps this is the cycle that will defeat Cris Pristly once and for all!

Ah yes, "Chris Priestly." The all-powerful locker of threads supposedly lurking the forums.

We have dismissed that claim.

This "Chris Priestly" theory proves how fragile your mental state is. You have been manipulated - by EA and before them, by BioWare.

[demersel]

I think that Dark Energy was supposed to be the reason the gaurdian would give you for doing what it does and it would still be a lie. But you know, the thing about a great lie is that it is 90% true. So i think that it is entirely possible for dark energy thing really be a serious problem, that we do have still to deal with. And ME4 would be a perfect place to do it. We do need a huge threat to everyone, and we need to be a surprise threat. Reapers are still likely to be in ME4 but they are known quantity now.

[RavenEyry]

estebanus wrote...
Yup. They also said that the setting of the next game will be completely different from anything else they've made in the universe.

So that's a ground and space setting out. Perhaps some sort of aether?

[demersel]

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

What if ME4 is all about dark energy?

Okay, I'm ready to murder someone over this dark energy ****. Two questions. First, how many times do we have to go through that it makes no sense? None of this "yeah but if they ignore the entire reason it was an intriguing idea to begin with then it could work" drivel either. Second, where did this actually come from? Everyone keeps going on about how it was the original plan but I've never seen any actual evidence of that. It's just an out of control rumor as far as I can see. Everyone takes it as gospel because everyone else takes it as gospel.

Speaking of things that are stupid, page countdowns are stupid. And every post ever that goes "I don't think BW is that smart" without any points to back it up.

Rif, pure speculation of course. But there was something wrong with Heastrom sun. It was a legitimate mission in the game. And big one at that.  Besides. crucible works on dark energy - it is all over it's assests in ME3. the theme is there. 

[paxxton]

magnetite wrote...

Not sure how they could explain something like dark energy in a simple format most people could comprehend. We're talking about the essential building blocks of the universe here. You'd have to be Stephen Hawking in order to fully understand how it all works.

Wikipedia to the rescue.
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Dark_energy

[RavenEyry]

Rifneno wrote...
Second, where did this actually come from? Everyone keeps going on about how it was the original plan but I've never seen any actual evidence of that. It's just an out of control rumor as far as I can see. Everyone takes it as gospel because everyone else takes it as gospel.

I've said that several times and been ignored.

[byne]

Rifneno wrote...

And every post ever that goes "I don't think BW is that smart" without any points to back it up.

I love those posts, because everyone who says that is admitting they think IT is a cool idea, whether they're aware of it or not.

You'd never say "They arent smart enough to do this stupid thing."

[RavenEyry]

demersel wrote...

Rif, pure speculation of course. But there was something wrong with Heastrom sun. It was a legitimate mission in the game. And big one at that.  Besides. crucible works on dark energy - it is all over it's assests in ME3. the theme is there. 

Dark energy is a thing that exists and may have damaged that one star. That doesn't mean it was secretly the main threat of the series.

[byne]

RavenEyry wrote...

demersel wrote...

Rif, pure speculation of course. But there was something wrong with Heastrom sun. It was a legitimate mission in the game. And big one at that.  Besides. crucible works on dark energy - it is all over it's assests in ME3. the theme is there. 

Dark energy is a thing that exists and may have damaged that one star. That doesn't mean it was secretly the main threat of the series.

I thought Karpyshyn said it was?

[DoomsdayDevice]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

My predictions for ME4:

- If you allowed Legion to upload the Reaper code (so you could have peace between Geth and Quarians and the war assets for both factions), you're screwed. Reaper-controlled Geth on the loose.

The Geth have been compromised in ME3, they need to be destroyed.

- If you cured the genophage with Wreav in charge, instead of Wrex, you're screwed. Krogan on the loose.

Regarding the Geth, as I a said before.

I think the code Legion uploaded was only based of the Reaper code and not the Reaper code in itself, Like the Thanix cannon is based of the principals of Sovereigns guns, but it is not Sovereigns guns.

Do I have anything to support this, no, but what i do know is that there is a dozen places where the geth if truly Reaper controlled could have ended the war in seconds. After Legion uploaded the code they could have destroyed the Quarians and captured Shepard, the end, just to name one.

Or in the final battle where the Geth have one of if not the Galaxies strongest fleet (not counting Reapers) and if they turned on us in the final battle it would all be over faster than you can sing "dont fear the Reaper."

So easy a victory for the Reapers if the Geth turned upon us, but they dont.

My own thoughst for ME4? No major threat, at least not one in the galaxy conquering army size (unless they continue the Reaper war). We played that game with ME1-3.

No, I think it will be about a weakened galaxy trying to recover after the war and all the instability that brings. All the major powers in the galaxy was hit hard and there is a massive area once belonging to the Batarains ripe for the taking. Combine that with a few new races on the galactic scene (Krogan, Geth, Quarians, Rahcni) and you got a witch cauldron of factions which all trying rebuild as well as grab some new territory.

And I think that is what we will navigating.

IMO it stands to reason that the compromised Geth will only become a problem at a later stage. If we would be able to immediately oversee the consequences of our choices, everyone would pick the same option (exactly like with the endings).

If the Geth had betrayed you right then and there, the game would have been over. So yeah, of course that didn't happen.

You're saying 'after the war'. Does that mean you think the Reapers were destroyed?

[The Heretic of Time]

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

What if ME4 is all about dark energy?

Okay, I'm ready to murder someone over this dark energy ****. Two questions. First, how many times do we have to go through that it makes no sense? None of this "yeah but if they ignore the entire reason it was an intriguing idea to begin with then it could work" drivel either. Second, where did this actually come from? Everyone keeps going on about how it was the original plan but I've never seen any actual evidence of that. It's just an out of control rumor as far as I can see. Everyone takes it as gospel because everyone else takes it as gospel.

Speaking of things that are stupid, page countdowns are stupid. And every post ever that goes "I don't think BW is that smart" without any points to back it up.

Wow Rif, I actually agree with you for a chance! That's quite rare.

Yes, This dark energy bullcrap is a rumor that has gone too far. I don't know who brought it up, but that person deserves a smack in the face. There is no evidence that BioWare originally planned to go anywhere with the whole dark energy bullcrap, none, zero, absolutely nothing. It's just something a fan made up based on Tali's recruiting mission in ME2 and something that was said in one of the Mass Effect novels. It's nothing but wild speculation from fans, but for some reason a lot of fans think this dark energy crap was indeed the original plot of Mass Effect, before Mac Walters supposedly ruined it. I tell you, it's bullshit.

[DoomsdayDevice]

SwobyJ wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

My predictions for ME4:

- If you allowed Legion to upload the Reaper code (so you could have peace between Geth and Quarians and the war assets for both factions), you're screwed. Reaper-controlled Geth on the loose.

The Geth have been compromised in ME3, they need to be destroyed.

- If you cured the genophage with Wreav in charge, instead of Wrex, you're screwed. Krogan on the loose.

Bioware tends to give 'ways to win' in many situations, so yeah, while I think Bioware may be staying with the geth as 'enemy faction' with like, very game (lol), I also think they may give a specific set of circumstances and decision sets where things still turn out alright in the end.

It wouldn't even be 'saving everyone' either, as, if the geth are compromised, you may have to destroy a heck of a lot of them in order to save them (like in ME2 Heratic Base... like in ME3 Rannoch missions...).

I don't think Reaper AI code is 'EVILLLLLL', but I think it makes the creation of the synthetic it is associated with to be super important. The geth were made and developed in a certain way, and it was a way that lead to genocide. So if people REALLY want to save them, they better be ready to fight for it and do very specific actions.

And on the case of EDI, I think it was easier for her.
"The Illusive Man ordered my creation years ago. Jeff was the one who
allowed me to think for myself. But only now do I feel alive. That is
your influence."

I think EDI is meant to be the model of ideal synthetic AI development. The Anti-Reaper in many ways (ha, and she's all about being an Anti-Reaper with her cyberwarfare measures, even in the literal sense).

The geth, they're more complicated. A 'tainted' race that needs the 'hopes and dreams' (or the equal of it) of its 'heroes' (Legion) to rise up to its full potential. Not computing potential, but moral and ethical.

So no, I don't think having Legion upload the code will lead to disaster, but I do think it'll lead to further complications. As long as the geth exist, there will be complications.

I'll refer to my beliefs on the 3 choice philosophies:
-Destroy is effective, but violent
-Control is progressive, but dangerous
-Synthesis is ideal, but a path filled with Destroy and Control

As it should be. It's an evolution of its own, and having the Reapers claim to push it forward possibly millions of years is a DREAM. It's fake. And even if it happened, the hidden blowback may be HUGE. 'Transhumanistic' ideas are actually quite great, but they also go horribly wrong when 'humanity' (aka ethics, etc) is abandoned in the process.

And I don't think EDI or Legion lack ethics. In fact, I believe they gain it through ME2-ME3. They in fact strive against the Reaper philosophy, so I'm pretty sure having Legion spread his 'influence' throughout the geth will not be a bad thing in itself.

But it can certainly open up stories where the geth are split even further from each other.

You might be right about there being a chance to redeem the Geth after all, I could see that. Still, I think the decision to let Legion upload the Reaper code is a mistake.

Remember, in the Geth Consensus mission: no matter how hard you try to erase all the Reaper code, the 'roots' will remain there? It cannot be completely erased. That always bugged me.

At first I thought it was a design oversight. But in retrospect, it looks like the roots are deliberately placed JUST out of weapon reach.

I think it is telling.

[RavenEyry]

byne wrote...
I thought Karpyshyn said it was?

A quick google reveals the starter of the rumour appears to be someone on Something Awful who said they were Karpyshyn.

[demersel]

RavenEyry wrote...

demersel wrote...

Rif, pure speculation of course. But there was something wrong with Heastrom sun. It was a legitimate mission in the game. And big one at that.  Besides. crucible works on dark energy - it is all over it's assests in ME3. the theme is there. 

Dark energy is a thing that exists and may have damaged that one star. That doesn't mean it was secretly the main threat of the series.

I'm not saying it is secretly the main threat of the series. The reapers are.
But really, your sun suddenly going supernova for no apperent reason - that is pretty scary. And if all suns in the galaxy suddenly start to do that - that is a problem and a mystery that needs investigating and fixing. - a great starting point for a Sci-Fi RPG game. It isn't war, there isn't a direct enemy, so the your hero doesn't need to be a soldier. And it affects everyone in the galaxy. And goal is to find out why is it happenning, who's doing it , and to stop them. Great premise for a space fantasy RPG.