80611 réponses à ce sujet

[DoomsdayDevice]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

GhostShadow115 wrote...

byne wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

So did you all see that response from a BioWare dev that all the writers are going to be involved with the next DLC?

It's called a Citadel DLC... we DO end up at the Citadel at the end of the game.. this could be very interesting.

I wonder if the Citadel DLC will include the cut Citadel quest with Xen where she accuses Tali of sleeping with Shepard.

What...?

http://social.biowar...ndex/11773629/1

Whoa, I completely forgot about this. thanks for re-posting!

Also, Shepard: "The city on Earth where I grew up was hard and dirty. I can see it as a war zone."

(unrelated, I know)

[BansheeOwnage]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Restrider wrote...

YOU ! HERE! I want to see your most-valuable-post-collection, please

Any ideas on where to post it?

The IT group?

AND I WAS SERIOUS ABOUT THOSE THIRTY FIVE ENTRIES

YOU OWE ME, SONNY!

*shakes fist*

 I don't always save everything on it. You have a few entries, but you deserve more and I often miss yours for some reason 

[byne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Restrider wrote...

YOU ! HERE! I want to see your most-valuable-post-collection, please

Any ideas on where to post it?

The IT group?

AND I WAS SERIOUS ABOUT THOSE THIRTY FIVE ENTRIES

YOU OWE ME, SONNY!

*shakes fist*

 I don't always save everything on it. You have a few entries, but you deserve more and I often miss yours for some reason 

Dont I have one in there?

[The Heretic of Time]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

The decision to let Legion upload the Reaper code is a good example. I agree with you that it's the renegade option to not allow it and side with the Quarians. I also agree that it's wiser to side with the Quarians, but my reason for that is that I believe the Geth have been compromised. I think the Reaper code is the synthetics version of indoctrination, and I also think Legion using the Reaper code is analogous to choosing synthesis, sacrificing oneself to achieve ascension through Reaper technology. No thanks. It just screams 'WRONG'.

I absolutely agree with you on that. There were MANY reasons why I didn't want the geth VI (in my Renegade playthrough Legion wasn't there, I sold him to Cerberus) to upload the reaper code into the geth consensus. Several reasons are:

1) The geth are an VI gone rogue. Like the VI on Luna they need to be either fixed or shut down / exterminated.

2) The geth are already way too powerful and superior to many organics. If we allow them to use the reaper code, they'll become even stronger, more advanced, more dangerous. If they decided to go Skynet on us as they already did on the quarians, we'd be fucked.

3) The code upgrade is a REAPER code. Like you said, it screams "WRONG", even I, a literalist, thought so.

4) Not to mention that if it's Legion that's uploading the code, he's being a hypocrite. Didn't Legion cheer on Shepard for blowing up the Collector base saying "build your own future, don't use reaper tech" or something like that? Like I said, Legion in ME3 is a goddamn HYPOCRITE. I don't like hypocrites.

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

ok heres my point, all this drama about IT, now 'what if' just bare with me 'what if' they add nothing more after omega but multi-player packs? considering what happened with DA2 its not a far reach either. You must keep in mind this is a game dictated by marketing guidelines, so even IF i.t. was real it might not get put in the game by the time bioware would be forced to move on by EA, and theres the chance IT is just a prayer from disappointed players. Hell I know i was let down, but I dont attack people about it. Just by questioning IT at all ive been attack on every post. People say 'give me proof lets see bioware deny IT' then they dismiss the proof, heres the catch IT itself has no proof, no open declaration by bioware that it is so, and sadly IT people, the burden of proof is on you not the people who doubt. proclaiming something is doesnt make it so.

You didnt question IT. You came in and claimed that BioWare has flat out denied it. Those are two different things. Question it if you want, but dont say with such certainty things that are not true.

And reveal or not, I still think IT was very likely intended. I've never said a reveal was even needed. One would be nice I guess, but I'm not gonna freak out if I dont get one.

And even if BioWare does at some point come out and just straight up deny IT, then oh well. Its not like I'll be devastated emotionally or anything. I'll just think "It really looked like it was what they intended, but I guess not." and I'll move on.

True but have you ever thought about they maybe just intended the idea of IT, but in the end it's not what happens? To have additional layers to your last choice maybe? I mean my stance is about that they intended for it to be true or not based on the player, but changed that with the EC where IT is in the form that is discussed here simply isn't possible.

[GhostShadow115]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

GhostShadow115 wrote...

byne wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

So did you all see that response from a BioWare dev that all the writers are going to be involved with the next DLC?

It's called a Citadel DLC... we DO end up at the Citadel at the end of the game.. this could be very interesting.

I wonder if the Citadel DLC will include the cut Citadel quest with Xen where she accuses Tali of sleeping with Shepard.

What...?

http://social.biowar...ndex/11773629/1

How the bloody hell did I miss this for 7 bloody months...? Thanks for showing this...

[BansheeOwnage]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

True but have you ever thought about they maybe just intended the idea of IT, but in the end it's not what happens? To have additional layers to your last choice maybe? I mean my stance is about that they intended for it to be true or not based on the player, but changed that with the EC where IT is in the form that is discussed here simply isn't possible.

What the?

@Ghost No problem.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 24 novembre 2012 - 12:21 .

[MegumiAzusa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

ok heres my point, all this drama about IT, now 'what if' just bare with me 'what if' they add nothing more after omega but multi-player packs? considering what happened with DA2 its not a far reach either. You must keep in mind this is a game dictated by marketing guidelines, so even IF i.t. was real it might not get put in the game by the time bioware would be forced to move on by EA, and theres the chance IT is just a prayer from disappointed players. Hell I know i was let down, but I dont attack people about it. Just by questioning IT at all ive been attack on every post. People say 'give me proof lets see bioware deny IT' then they dismiss the proof, heres the catch IT itself has no proof, no open declaration by bioware that it is so, and sadly IT people, the burden of proof is on you not the people who doubt. proclaiming something is doesnt make it so.

IT has no absolute proof but it has evidence, a whole page of it, which you apparently ignored on your way to troll this thread.

Proving something right is hard, proving something wrong only needs one example that shows the error.

[badmojo88]

lol see? im insulted and dismissed for not agreeing, -no im not trolling, no dlc after omega has not been confirmed yet, been suggested, not really committed to yet. ME4 may get made instead, they "may" make ME4 a pre-quel from what they've implied. and @BatmanTurian "evidence" is not always true, all ive seen is with IT and speculations from both directions. -and as for pax, look up the EC pre-release interview. sounded fairly final.

[IronSabbath88]

At this point I just want to have that final confrontation with Harbinger, see all your war assets in action, have the chance to live or die in a blaze of glory and most importantly have the Earth battle just be on one big epic scale.

I don't care HOW they go about implementing that the final choice was all a farce, I just hope we see it in some form.

[badmojo88]

SwobyJ wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

lol see? im insulted and dismissed for not agreeing, -no im not trolling, no dlc after omega has not been confirmed yet, been suggested, not really committed to yet. ME4 may get made instead, they "may" make ME4 a pre-quel from what they've implied. and @BatmanTurian "evidence" is not always true, all ive seen is with IT and speculations from both directions. -and as for pax, look up the EC pre-release interview. sounded fairly final.

Seems you don't need to be here then.

too bad for you its an open forum.

[ElSuperGecko]

badmojo88 wrote...
ok heres my point, all this drama about IT, now 'what if' just bare with me 'what if' they add nothing more after omega but multi-player packs? considering what happened with DA2 its not a far reach either. You must keep in mind this is a game dictated by marketing guidelines, so even IF i.t. was real it might not get put in the game by the time bioware would be forced to move on by EA, and theres the chance IT is just a prayer from disappointed players. Hell I know i was let down, but I dont attack people about it. Just by questioning IT at all ive been attack on every post. People say 'give me proof lets see bioware deny IT' then they dismiss the proof, heres the catch IT itself has no proof, no open declaration by bioware that it is so, and sadly IT people, the burden of proof is on you not the people who doubt. proclaiming something is doesnt make it so.

OK.  To your point - IT isn't reliant on DLC, or any changes to the game.  It's an interpretation of the endings.  An attempt to make sense of what we see in the endings, using what we've witnessed, observed and learned through the course of the Mass Effect trilogy.

Indoctrination Theory doesn't require Bioware to reveal it.

Of course, we want Bioware to reveal it, we hope they'll reveal it - because that would mean they've had a plan regarding the end of the game (and the series) all along.  But it isn't necessary.

As to the "proof", again, there's no conclusive proof one way or another.  Bioware haven't said yes, and they haven't said no.  Because they WANT players to speculate on their intent, they WANT players to try to interpet the endings.  So all we can do is build a case for or against.  On the first page of the thread you'll find a huge amount of material gathered from within the game itself that appears to support IT.  Whether you choose to accept it or not is entirely up to you.  However, if you want to refute IT, or disprove it, then you need to address the material and tell us why you don't accept it.

In short, it comes back to the point I made earlier - you can question IT all you want.  We're fine with that.  So long as you actually give us questions to answer, and don't just come up with trite and inconsequential comments like

badmojo88 wrote...
...more IT really? please someone rick roll this now and put an end to this suffering! lol

[Rifneno]

badmojo88 wrote...

lol see? im insulted and dismissed for not agreeing, -no im not trolling, no dlc after omega has not been confirmed yet, been suggested, not really committed to yet. ME4 may get made instead, they "may" make ME4 a pre-quel from what they've implied. and @BatmanTurian "evidence" is not always true, all ive seen is with IT and speculations from both directions. -and as for pax, look up the EC pre-release interview. sounded fairly final.

Here you go!



Remind me why, if they flatly denied IT at PAX, they refuse to take a stance one way or another?

[DoomsdayDevice]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

The decision to let Legion upload the Reaper code is a good example. I agree with you that it's the renegade option to not allow it and side with the Quarians. I also agree that it's wiser to side with the Quarians, but my reason for that is that I believe the Geth have been compromised. I think the Reaper code is the synthetics version of indoctrination, and I also think Legion using the Reaper code is analogous to choosing synthesis, sacrificing oneself to achieve ascension through Reaper technology. No thanks. It just screams 'WRONG'.

I absolutely agree with you on that. There were MANY reasons why I didn't want the geth VI (in my Renegade playthrough Legion wasn't there, I sold him to Cerberus) to upload the reaper code into the geth consensus. Several reasons are:

1) The geth are an VI gone rogue. Like the VI on Luna they need to be either fixed or shut down / exterminated.

2) The geth are already way too powerful and superior to many organics. If we allow them to use the reaper code, they'll become even stronger, more advanced, more dangerous. If they decided to go Skynet on us as they already did on the quarians, we'd be fucked.

3) The code upgrade is a REAPER code. Like you said, it screams "WRONG", even I, a literalist, thought so.

4) Not to mention that if it's Legion that's uploading the code, he's being a hypocrite. Didn't Legion cheer on Shepard for blowing up the Collector base saying "build your own future, don't use reaper tech" or something like that? Like I said, Legion in ME3 is a goddamn HYPOCRITE. I don't like hypocrites.

Thing is, what really made me question the Geth is the Geth consensus mission.

First off, you can never actually eradicate the Reaper code entirely. There will always be some 'root' left. At first I thought it was a design oversight, but in retrospect, it seems telling. Especially because Legion suddenly lies to you about the Reaper code and then goes ahead and uses it.

My second reason is this (and you might not agree with me here):

During this mission, you just so happen to uncover data that shows you the start of the Quarian-Geth conflict, and reveals that the Quarians were the agressors.

What if the data is false? It's a virtual environment, Legion could theoretically showing you whatever he wants. What if the Geth were the agressors and he's just changing the story, so you'll cooperate with him later.

What if all of this is true, and it is foreshadowing of the ending?

It would exactly foreshadow the catalyst showing you false pictures in your mind and trying to influence your decision.

Wow, I'm on a roll today.

Mind = blown.

[Restrider]

@DD
But didn't Tali and Admiral Zael'Koris kind of confirm that they started turning the Geth off, once they started to evolve to something the Quarians did not desire to have?
And Zael'Koris declares these actions as unethical and wrong.

I can see the different approaches to handle the Geth uprising, but I think that it is confirmed from the Geth and the Quarians that the Quarians can be seen as aggressors - rightfully or not.

Modifié par Restrider, 24 novembre 2012 - 12:34 .

[ElSuperGecko]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
True but have you ever thought about they maybe just intended the idea of IT, but in the end it's not what happens? To have additional layers to your last choice maybe? I mean my stance is about that they intended for it to be true or not based on the player, but changed that with the EC where IT is in the form that is discussed here simply isn't possible.

I don't doubt for one second that IT in it's current form is not what Bioware intended.  However I also don't doubt for one second that Bioware intended indoctrination to play a role in the final scenes.

In fact, we know for a fact that Bioware originally intended for indoctrination to play a part (Final Hours app), we just don't know what that part was, how big a role it had or how deep into the story it goes.

Indoctrination Theory is an interpretation, an attempt to make sense of the hints, clues and questions that Bioware left us with throughout the game.  It's speculation - and that's something that Bioware definitely DID intend.

[MegumiAzusa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

The decision to let Legion upload the Reaper code is a good example. I agree with you that it's the renegade option to not allow it and side with the Quarians. I also agree that it's wiser to side with the Quarians, but my reason for that is that I believe the Geth have been compromised. I think the Reaper code is the synthetics version of indoctrination, and I also think Legion using the Reaper code is analogous to choosing synthesis, sacrificing oneself to achieve ascension through Reaper technology. No thanks. It just screams 'WRONG'.

I absolutely agree with you on that. There were MANY reasons why I didn't want the geth VI (in my Renegade playthrough Legion wasn't there, I sold him to Cerberus) to upload the reaper code into the geth consensus. Several reasons are:

1) The geth are an VI gone rogue. Like the VI on Luna they need to be either fixed or shut down / exterminated.

2) The geth are already way too powerful and superior to many organics. If we allow them to use the reaper code, they'll become even stronger, more advanced, more dangerous. If they decided to go Skynet on us as they already did on the quarians, we'd be fucked.

3) The code upgrade is a REAPER code. Like you said, it screams "WRONG", even I, a literalist, thought so.

4) Not to mention that if it's Legion that's uploading the code, he's being a hypocrite. Didn't Legion cheer on Shepard for blowing up the Collector base saying "build your own future, don't use reaper tech" or something like that? Like I said, Legion in ME3 is a goddamn HYPOCRITE. I don't like hypocrites.

Thing is, what really made me question the Geth is the Geth consensus mission.

First off, you can never actually eradicate the Reaper code entirely. There will always be some 'root' left. At first I thought it was a design oversight, but in retrospect, it seems telling. Especially because Legion suddenly lies to you about the Reaper code and then goes ahead and uses it.

My second reason is this (and you might not agree with me here):

During this mission, you just so happen to uncover data that shows you the start of the Quarian-Geth conflict, and reveals that the Quarians were the agressors.

What if the data is false? It's a virtual environment, Legion could theoretically showing you whatever he wants. What if the Geth were the agressors and he's just changing the story, so you'll cooperate with him later.

What if all of this is true, and it is foreshadowing of the ending?

It would exactly foreshadow the catalyst showing you false pictures in your mind and trying to influence your decision.

Wow, I'm on a roll today.

Mind = blown.

Also Legion outright attacks you when you deny it to upload the code. Before he told you how the Geth numbers got lower until they panicked. Still the count of Geth programs in Legion should be the same all the time. No need to panic like that.

[Rifneno]

Now we're demonizing the geth? Great. <eye roll> Keep in mind that you're saying the catalyst is right about synthetics and conflicts. That should probably give you an idea where you're at right now.

[CmdrShep80]

TJBartlemus wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

oh so anyone who is talking about IT but doesnt agree that it has merrit is a troll? that seems more like a gathering of cheerleaders for a failing team doesnt it?

No, not at all. What makes someone a troll is how they talk to others and their behavior.

Troll: In Internet slang, a troll[/b] is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Strange...the star kid did that same thing!

[DoomsdayDevice]

Okay guys, so this is officially my next speculation.

What if the Geth consensus mission is a foreshadowing of the ending?

What if Legion is showing you false images of the events that caused the Geth-Quarian war?

(Just like the catalyst is showing you false images in a virtual environment)

What if he is showing you those images in hopes of influencing your decision to let them use the Reaper code?

(Just like the catalyst is trying to influence your decision)

That would explain why the decision to let Legion upload the Reaper code seems exactly like synthesis.

He sacrifices himself to achieve ascension through Reaper technology!

What if Legion was a Reaper agent from the get-go?

What if he only donned the N7 armour to manipulate you into thinking he's your fanboy?

(Just like the catalyst appears as the child to gain your trust)

What if the whole 'erasing of Reaper code' from the Geth consensus was a complete charade? As we can see, you can never really eradicate it completely. The 'roots' will remain.

Just like the whole 'destroying/controlling' the Reapers thing you do in the end is only an illusion?

Is the entire Geth consensus mission completely foreshadowing the end?

HAVE WE BEEN TRICKED TWICE IN THE SAME GAME WITH THE SAME TRICK BY BIOWARE?

Mind = blown?

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 24 novembre 2012 - 12:42 .