80611 réponses à ce sujet

[badmojo88]

BatmanTurian wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

since being nice and forthright doesnt seem to work on this thread lets try this....

Hey! new theory! Shepard was knocked out in ME1 at the beacon blowing up and is still out cold and all of ME1-2-3 were just a dream and we're really waiting on the real game to come out

That was you being nice?  Jesus...

yeah me being mean is going back 2014 pages on this thread and reporting certain people for harrasment, looks like all that one kid does is sit here accussing people of trolling. 

Wow, seriously? I'm harassing you? That's hilarious. I haven't sent you a PM or anything. I'm simply responding to your behavior in this thread. As you said, it's an open forum.

ok then let me ask you this, have i directly insulted anyone? have i called anyone a troll? have i truely been hateful in any way shape or form? the answer is no, you have done nothing but jump on me since i came on this forum doing nothing but saying "lol troll lol troll lol troll" -guess what, your trolling. people not agreeing with you does not make them a troll, it makes them -not agree with you- if you cant except this then i see why the -child- concept struck a cord, heres a thought, if you dont like what i have to say, dont reply, easy as that. But insulting people is begging them to respond.

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Legion is not uploading the Reaper code into the Geth, he's uploading a code he created and wrote that was based on the Reaper code.

While under the influence of it.

[Rifneno]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I don't care if it's passive aggressiveness for if I'm merely stating a fact. And this time it's really just that: it doesn't matter how much "evidence" you have if there is just one tiny counter. If you define that as passive aggressive then I could define the "we have tons of evidence" slogan as just a cheap attack. It's nothing more then intimidation.

I also don't get why you always have to bring Estebanus in it too if he didn't even post since I-even-don't-know-how-long. It doesn't matter what he writes if you don't like my attitude.

This isn't about real world science, it's about literature.  As you literalists are so fond of pointing out, writers do occasionally screw up.  So no, it does not take "one tiny counter".

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
I never said indoctrination isn't at play. It certainly is. I said the choice to activate the crucible is real and it doesn't matter which one you pick as long as you choose to do so. That this isn't that way is a huge point in the current definition of IT.

There have been several posts of Raistlin, others and me about several actions that could break Control/Synthesis Shepards free from indoctrination (Rachni Queen, Liara, Shiala/Feros colonists, Leviathan,...) at a certain cost (like the counter to get Quarian/Geth peace).
So. There are variations in the IT.

They still involve winning by conventional means which is impossible.

Not that crap again

Not that ignorance again.

[DoomsdayDevice]

demersel wrote...

@, though it was me, who initially started the topic of not trusting the geth, and legion uploading his code essentially being synthesis, I really think that there is a possibility for it not to be a trap or double game. In fact it works even better as a forshadowing and a trick device for the ending for the whole geth thing being true, and there being no negative consequences - think about it - it is a positive example of synthesis! - so the guardian sees that in your memories and exploits it. And he also exploits your compassion for the geth as allies.

And really what makes me think that Legion really was Legion, and that he was not compromised - is the example of EDI - she also has reaper code in her, and that is what makes her truly alive. And she had a full two games of proving herself to you.

That is the positive points.

However, there are negative points as well. (or neutral, depends on your point of view)
First, think carefully, where do you actually meet Legion, and what is he doing there? (derelict reaper, interacting with the core of the derelict reaper).

Then there is the thing about the "house devided" mission. You see, in that mission, legion says that the heretics are preparing to upload a virus, that would turn all geth into heretics. That virus is of reaper origin. And then he preposes to ise that same reaper virus to turn the heretics into normal geth.

Good points, and you could be right about it being a possible 'good' scenario that sets us up for a possible 'bad' scenario.

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I don't care if it's passive aggressiveness for if I'm merely stating a fact. And this time it's really just that: it doesn't matter how much "evidence" you have if there is just one tiny counter. If you define that as passive aggressive then I could define the "we have tons of evidence" slogan as just a cheap attack. It's nothing more then intimidation.

I also don't get why you always have to bring Estebanus in it too if he didn't even post since I-even-don't-know-how-long. It doesn't matter what he writes if you don't like my attitude.

Pointing out that we have a lot of evidence is, as you say, " merely stating a fact". It's not intimidation. You're over-exaggerating as usual.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 24 novembre 2012 - 01:13 .

[ElSuperGecko]

badmojo88 wrote...
hmm you raise a good point unlike the other ywo children who seem to like trolling me. For one my original comment was not meant to be offensive rather point out bickering over IT was silly- the ending of mass effect 3 was a cheap rip-off  from Issac Isomoff's Irobot and Robot Carnaval. Here is why the reapers must destory yadda yadda yadda.... and here 3 choices (4 with EC)  -but only the choice "we" give you- casey hudson wanted "to make an ending people would debate over endlessly" all the while he goes to the bank and no longer cares about mass effect.

Oh, there's no denying ME3 channels other sci-fi stories... in fact, that's been discussed at length in this very thread.  Not just Isaac Asimov, but Stephen Baxter and many more.  The story is derivative, yes, but it puts it's own spin on things.

And yes, it's clear that the ending of ME3 was designed to provoke controversy and speculation.  But surely discussing what the game has given us and thinking about where the story has taken us is much better than simply writing it all off as a badly written mess?

The way I look at IT and the brickering over it is like watching people dance to a cheap puppet master (hudson)  -and as for needing to be confirmed, sadly yes it does, because without that confirmation-being it is JUST a video game- players must accept the game at face value rather then explore some deeper hidden meaning. ultimately, and sadly because i love mass effect i do, mass effect may and in some ways is already the stuff of ****tale party jokes -"oh did you hear? they me3'd the ending of that one!" 

That's your opinion, that's fine.  However I disagree.  The endings were never originally intended to simply be taken at face value.  They were left open to interpretation, and an open ending is meant to be discussed.  That's what we're doing here.  And ME's developers left us with plenty to speculate about.

[demersel]

So yeah, I think that DD is nuts for saying that legion is indoctrinaded and indoctrinates all the geth in the rannoch mission. Let's return to discussing some serious theories, that are not so radical and out of touch with reality. Like that one that states that TIM is actually an avatar of the derelict reaper.

[Rifneno]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

1. Both catalyst and Legion appear to you as something familiar. Catalyst appears as the child from Earth, Legion wears a N7 armour piece. (And Shepard is supicious of this)
2. Both are showing you images in a virtual environment. 
3. Both are feeding you information about a conflict between organics and synthetics. The catalyst is feeding you false information about a conflict between synthetics and organics, to influence your decision. The parallel makes me wonder if Legion could be doing the same.
4. Legion sacrifices himself to help the Geth ascend, through Reaper technology. That is exactly what happens in synthesis.
5. Both are making you do something futile, or so it appears. Legion lets you erase data while you can't get rid of the roots, and the catalyst shows you a pretty image of how you control/destroy/ascend while in fact god knows what else happens in reality. For all we know, Shepard could have been erasing parts of his own brain instead of Reaper code without knowing it.

FFS, the only thing Legion shows us that isn't directly confirmed by the quarians is that some quarians supported the geth during the initial conflict.  And that makes the quarians, not the geth, seem more sympathetic.

This is worse than the Hackett is indoctrinated crap.  And that's saying a lot.

[MegumiAzusa]

Rifneno wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I don't care if it's passive aggressiveness for if I'm merely stating a fact. And this time it's really just that: it doesn't matter how much "evidence" you have if there is just one tiny counter. If you define that as passive aggressive then I could define the "we have tons of evidence" slogan as just a cheap attack. It's nothing more then intimidation.

I also don't get why you always have to bring Estebanus in it too if he didn't even post since I-even-don't-know-how-long. It doesn't matter what he writes if you don't like my attitude.

This isn't about real world science, it's about literature.  As you literalists are so fond of pointing out, writers do occasionally screw up.  So no, it does not take "one tiny counter".

That would be a pretty big screw up.

[MegumiAzusa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I don't care if it's passive aggressiveness for if I'm merely stating a fact. And this time it's really just that: it doesn't matter how much "evidence" you have if there is just one tiny counter. If you define that as passive aggressive then I could define the "we have tons of evidence" slogan as just a cheap attack. It's nothing more then intimidation.

I also don't get why you always have to bring Estebanus in it too if he didn't even post since I-even-don't-know-how-long. It doesn't matter what he writes if you don't like my attitude.

Pointing out that we have a lot of evidence is, as you say, " merely stating a fact". It's not intimidation. You're over-exaggerating as usual.

It is, as it takes only little to disprove something you always pull out the "we got lots of evidence" card in the hope no one tries to call your bluff.

[MegumiAzusa]

demersel wrote...

So yeah, I think that DD is nuts for saying that legion is indoctrinaded and indoctrinates all the geth in the rannoch mission. Let's return to discussing some serious theories, that are not so radical and out of touch with reality. Like that one that states that TIM is actually an avatar of the derelict reaper.

Nice troll, 10/10

[DoomsdayDevice]

However, I feel the 'Legion synthesis' is still not an example of a 'good synthesis scenario', because he betrays his own ideals.

Legion was the one who said we should achieve our own future, reject the Reapers gifts, because by accepting them, we would follow the path the Reapers laid out before us, achieving the Reapers' future.

[BatmanTurian]

badmojo88 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

since being nice and forthright doesnt seem to work on this thread lets try this....

Hey! new theory! Shepard was knocked out in ME1 at the beacon blowing up and is still out cold and all of ME1-2-3 were just a dream and we're really waiting on the real game to come out

That was you being nice?  Jesus...

yeah me being mean is going back 2014 pages on this thread and reporting certain people for harrasment, looks like all that one kid does is sit here accussing people of trolling. 

Wow, seriously? I'm harassing you? That's hilarious. I haven't sent you a PM or anything. I'm simply responding to your behavior in this thread. As you said, it's an open forum.

ok then let me ask you this, have i directly insulted anyone? have i called anyone a troll? have i truely been hateful in any way shape or form? the answer is no, you have done nothing but jump on me since i came on this forum doing nothing but saying "lol troll lol troll lol troll" -guess what, your trolling. people not agreeing with you does not make them a troll, it makes them -not agree with you- if you cant except this then i see why the -child- concept struck a cord, heres a thought, if you dont like what i have to say, dont reply, easy as that. But insulting people is begging them to respond.

 Your first post was provocative and insulting, which is why I have jumped on you. It's possible to make your point without acting like an ass. If you can't understand this, and then call me a child, you are clearly incapable of self-reflection.

It has nothing to do with your disagreement. I'm used to that. The whole BSN is a toxic lake of negative and pessimistic people. It has to do with your behavior. Don't come into a thread, say insulting things, and expect a warm welcome.

[BansheeOwnage]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I don't care if it's passive aggressiveness for if I'm merely stating a fact. And this time it's really just that: it doesn't matter how much "evidence" you have if there is just one tiny counter. If you define that as passive aggressive then I could define the "we have tons of evidence" slogan as just a cheap attack. It's nothing more then intimidation.

I also don't get why you always have to bring Estebanus in it too if he didn't even post since I-even-don't-know-how-long. It doesn't matter what he writes if you don't like my attitude.

Pointing out that we have a lot of evidence is, as you say, " merely stating a fact". It's not intimidation. You're over-exaggerating as usual.

Over-exaggerating is redudant

@Meg one tiny counter does not kill IT. I'm sorry. It just doesn't.

[badmojo88]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...
hmm you raise a good point unlike the other ywo children who seem to like trolling me. For one my original comment was not meant to be offensive rather point out bickering over IT was silly- the ending of mass effect 3 was a cheap rip-off  from Issac Isomoff's Irobot and Robot Carnaval. Here is why the reapers must destory yadda yadda yadda.... and here 3 choices (4 with EC)  -but only the choice "we" give you- casey hudson wanted "to make an ending people would debate over endlessly" all the while he goes to the bank and no longer cares about mass effect.

Oh, there's no denying ME3 channels other sci-fi stories... in fact, that's been discussed at length in this very thread.  Not just Isaac Asimov, but Stephen Baxter and many more.  The story is derivative, yes, but it puts it's own spin on things.

And yes, it's clear that the ending of ME3 was designed to provoke controversy and speculation.  But surely discussing what the game has given us and thinking about where the story has taken us is much better than simply writing it all off as a badly written mess?

The way I look at IT and the brickering over it is like watching people dance to a cheap puppet master (hudson)  -and as for needing to be confirmed, sadly yes it does, because without that confirmation-being it is JUST a video game- players must accept the game at face value rather then explore some deeper hidden meaning. ultimately, and sadly because i love mass effect i do, mass effect may and in some ways is already the stuff of ****tale party jokes -"oh did you hear? they me3'd the ending of that one!" 

That's your opinion, that's fine.  However I disagree.  The endings were never originally intended to simply be taken at face value.  They were left open to interpretation, and an open ending is meant to be discussed.  That's what we're doing here.  And ME's developers left us with plenty to speculate about.

I do respect you opinion, we'll have to agree to disagree, mass effect in essence was beloved because it was a "war story" not a "lets question the meaning of life and the universe story" and i know i know neither are mutually exclussive, and some within the story were brought into shap relief, but ulitmately it was the cowboy guns blazing feel that drove mass effect, and the character relationships, the feel that the players choice mattered. Hudson making the story take a violent left turn from the story style is well remarked and lamented, quivalling over IT is giving him what he wants, and frankly he doesnt deserve it.

[BansheeOwnage]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

1. Both catalyst and Legion appear to you as something familiar. Catalyst appears as the child from Earth, Legion wears a N7 armour piece. (And Shepard is supicious of this)
2. Both are showing you images in a virtual environment. 
3. Both are feeding you information about a conflict between organics and synthetics. The catalyst is feeding you false information about a conflict between synthetics and organics, to influence your decision. The parallel makes me wonder if Legion could be doing the same.
4. Legion sacrifices himself to help the Geth ascend, through Reaper technology. That is exactly what happens in synthesis.
5. Both are making you do something futile, or so it appears. Legion lets you erase data while you can't get rid of the roots, and the catalyst shows you a pretty image of how you control/destroy/ascend while in fact god knows what else happens in reality. For all we know, Shepard could have been erasing parts of his own brain instead of Reaper code without knowing it.

FFS, the only thing Legion shows us that isn't directly confirmed by the quarians is that some quarians supported the geth during the initial conflict.  And that makes the quarians, not the geth, seem more sympathetic.

This is worse than the Hackett is indoctrinated crap.  And that's saying a lot.

Calm down Rif. I agree with you, but this is just for fun I think.

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I don't care if it's passive aggressiveness for if I'm merely stating a fact. And this time it's really just that: it doesn't matter how much "evidence" you have if there is just one tiny counter. If you define that as passive aggressive then I could define the "we have tons of evidence" slogan as just a cheap attack. It's nothing more then intimidation.

I also don't get why you always have to bring Estebanus in it too if he didn't even post since I-even-don't-know-how-long. It doesn't matter what he writes if you don't like my attitude.

Pointing out that we have a lot of evidence is, as you say, " merely stating a fact". It's not intimidation. You're over-exaggerating as usual.

It is, as it takes only little to disprove something you always pull out the "we got lots of evidence" card in the hope no one tries to call your bluff.

That's the problem, people try to focus on one thing to disprove all of IT. But IT is more than one piece of evidence. You, of all people, should know this.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

1. Both catalyst and Legion appear to you as something familiar. Catalyst appears as the child from Earth, Legion wears a N7 armour piece. (And Shepard is supicious of this)
2. Both are showing you images in a virtual environment. 
3. Both are feeding you information about a conflict between organics and synthetics. The catalyst is feeding you false information about a conflict between synthetics and organics, to influence your decision. The parallel makes me wonder if Legion could be doing the same.
4. Legion sacrifices himself to help the Geth ascend, through Reaper technology. That is exactly what happens in synthesis.
5. Both are making you do something futile, or so it appears. Legion lets you erase data while you can't get rid of the roots, and the catalyst shows you a pretty image of how you control/destroy/ascend while in fact god knows what else happens in reality. For all we know, Shepard could have been erasing parts of his own brain instead of Reaper code without knowing it.

FFS, the only thing Legion shows us that isn't directly confirmed by the quarians is that some quarians supported the geth during the initial conflict.  And that makes the quarians, not the geth, seem more sympathetic.

This is worse than the Hackett is indoctrinated crap.  And that's saying a lot.

Hey, relax. Why do some of you need to get all hostile?

It's not like I'm saying this is the truth.

I'm just thinking out loud and would love to hear good counter arguments.

You make good points.

Still, Legion betrays his own beliefs (as expressed in the ME2 ending) by using the Reaper code.

[Dwailing]

Oh come ON, knock it off people. Batman and Megumi, if you're going to continue your argument from before, DO IT VIA PM. It's a negative influence on the rest of the thread. And rif, please don't join this discussion. It's not a new fight, and you joining it just encourages them.

[demersel]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

However, I feel the 'Legion synthesis' is still not an example of a 'good synthesis scenario', because he betrays his own ideals.

Legion was the one who said we should achieve our own future, reject the Reapers gifts, because by accepting them, we would follow the path the Reapers laid out before us, achieving the Reapers' future.

That he did. It was a pretty big point. 

[badmojo88]

@BatmanTurian again you open with a insult, and you have the gall to call anyone else a troll