80611 réponses à ce sujet

[DoomsdayDevice]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Let's change the example a bit: The Reapers wrote a book, but you obviously shouldn't read it because the physical part of the book is made out of Reaper tech. So instead you copy the words of the book (ctrl+c) onto a physical book you built yourself, and add and remove parts to make it work for you better.

You're using Reaper knowledge, there's nothing wrong with that. It's the same as the Protheans building their own mass relay and us building Thanix cannons.

-Are we using physical Reaper tech, as in, the stuff that indoctrinates? No.
-Are we using technology without understanding how it works, as in, advancing along the path the Reapers desire? No.

No problem then.

Yes, I understand that. But what if Reaper code is the synthetic form of indoctrination? An incredibly advanced and complex code with hidden subroutines?

I realize that's not really a question that can be answered. Let me phrase it like this:

How do the Reapers control synthetics?

Through code? Nanites that influence their processors? Both?

Do we even have an idea?

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 24 novembre 2012 - 02:04 .

[badmojo88]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I imply IT in its current form is disproved. I'm not saying IT has some valid points in it.
3 points which are huge "contributions" to the validity or invalidity of the current form of IT:
The Mako in the ShepAlive clip: please outline it for once.
Shepard not able to survive on the base of the Tower: you can see in the EC it's shielded against the beam when the Crucible fires. You also see the Tower completely intact afterwards.
The new EC finale which only distinguishes between Crucible fired and not fired.

Very well.

1. I give you the Mako. It's a Schroedinger's Cat, if anything. The scene is still on Earth.

2. Whether the tower is shielded or not, Shepard is at ground zero inside the "shield". Even if the tower is intact (it's quantum shielded), Shepard would not be ( because he/she is not quantum shielded).

3. Irrelevant.

1. Ignorance.
2. You can see the beam while fireing spreading around the tower, way over Sheps head.
3. Ignorance.

You're going to have to give me a bit more than ignorance if you want to have a civil discussion. I'm throwing you an olive branch here.

OK
1. You simply have no pointer to tell you if it's on the Citadel or on Earth. You simply say "[it] is still on Earth" because you want it to. This is ignorant behavior.
3. How is it irrelevant when the developers thought it is relevant enough to actually add a different one? The Opt Out choice shows you blatantly what it looks like if you choose not to use the Crucible. Shepard being indoctrinated would also result in the Crucible not being used, as no one is there to do it like when Shep decides not to, as evidenced in Opt Out.

1. The concrete and rebar would not be used on a space station,  Shepard should also be dead because the explosion is megatons in power, not a sparkler on a shield. Like, disintegrated Terminator 2 Sarah Connor dream style. Or you could look at images from the after effects of Hiroshima. Shepard would be worse off than those poor souls, however.

3. The opt out choice shows the child for what he is, a Reaper intelligence. It can't be trusted. Also, yeah, the crucible is never used. Everything after every choice is just the dream sequence. It doesn't matter.

for the #1- you'd be surprised, bare in mind not the framework
, but the structures within? sure they would. 

#2 may shock you but im right with you there believe it or not
#3 the Entire 'choice' bit is an open and closed farse, as in babylon 5 the shadows and volrons wanted the young races to pick a side, one or the other, but the correct choice was to not choose at all. Same with the starchild, but then again its a question of is it really good story telling (IT real) or lazy and fail story telling (IT a lie) 

[BansheeOwnage]

Home run MF wrote...

byne wrote...

I wish everyone would just shut the hell up with the arguing.

Indeed

Home Run!  That's the exact thing I thought of when reading that, and Dwailing's post. Didn't know you watched Red vs. Blue!

[byne]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Let's change the example a bit: The Reapers wrote a book, but you obviously shouldn't read it because the physical part of the book is made out of Reaper tech. So instead you copy the words of the book (ctrl+c) onto a physical book you built yourself, and add and remove parts to make it work for you better.

You're using Reaper knowledge, there's nothing wrong with that. It's the same as the Protheans building their own mass relay and us building Thanix cannons.

-Are we using physical Reaper tech, as in, the stuff that indoctrinates? No.
-Are we using technology without understanding how it works, as in, advancing along the path the Reapers desire? No.

No problem then.

Yes, I understand that. But what if Reaper code is the synthetic form of indoctrination? An incredibly advanced and complex code with hidden subroutines?

I realize that's not really a question that can be answered. Let me phrase it like this:

How do the Reapers control synthetics?

Through code? Nanites that influence their processors? Both?

Do we even have an idea?

Legion says they dont really control the geth, they just changed the way they thought a bit. The heretics were technically following the Reapers of their own free will, and not being controlled at all.

[MegumiAzusa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I imply IT in its current form is disproved. I'm not saying IT has some valid points in it.
3 points which are huge "contributions" to the validity or invalidity of the current form of IT:
The Mako in the ShepAlive clip: please outline it for once.
Shepard not able to survive on the base of the Tower: you can see in the EC it's shielded against the beam when the Crucible fires. You also see the Tower completely intact afterwards.
The new EC finale which only distinguishes between Crucible fired and not fired.

Very well.

1. I give you the Mako. It's a Schroedinger's Cat, if anything. The scene is still on Earth.

2. Whether the tower is shielded or not, Shepard is at ground zero inside the "shield". Even if the tower is intact (it's quantum shielded), Shepard would not be ( because he/she is not quantum shielded).

3. Irrelevant.

1. Ignorance.
2. You can see the beam while fireing spreading around the tower, way over Sheps head.
3. Ignorance.

You're going to have to give me a bit more than ignorance if you want to have a civil discussion. I'm throwing you an olive branch here.

OK
1. You simply have no pointer to tell you if it's on the Citadel or on Earth. You simply say "[it] is still on Earth" because you want it to. This is ignorant behavior.
3. How is it irrelevant when the developers thought it is relevant enough to actually add a different one? The Opt Out choice shows you blatantly what it looks like if you choose not to use the Crucible. Shepard being indoctrinated would also result in the Crucible not being used, as no one is there to do it like when Shep decides not to, as evidenced in Opt Out.

1. The concrete and rebar would not be used on a space station,  Shepard should also be dead because the explosion is megatons in power, not a sparkler on a shield. Like, disintegrated Terminator 2 Sarah Connor dream style. Or you could look at images from the after effects of Hiroshima. Shepard would be worse off than those poor souls, however.

3. The opt out choice shows the child for what he is, a Reaper intelligence. It can't be trusted. Also, yeah, the crucible is never used. Everything after every choice is just the dream sequence. It doesn't matter.

1. There is still no rebar but cables, I don't know where you have that rebar idea coming from other then "it has to be in London, hey in London is rebar which looks basically the same, different but hey who cares right?". You also still ignore the shielded part and the option of moveable objects and the fact that the same "concrete" texture is indeed used for the Citadel. There is just nothing there that suggests Shepard is not on the Citadel.

3. Low EMS causes Shepard to die while the door of the Normandy opens, which is before that scene...

[byne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

byne wrote...

I wish everyone would just shut the hell up with the arguing.

Indeed

Home Run!  That's the exact thing I thought of when reading that, and Dwailing's post. Didn't know you watched Red vs. Blue!

I didnt know Home Run watched RvB either! Or maybe I did and forgot.

[badmojo88]

masster blaster wrote...

1. I am not bulling you Bad.
2. Your point is what? What is it that you want? You haven't asked us anything that was what you wanted to here. We gave you answers, but your attitude sucks. It was your first enterence that made you labeld as a troll. You actions.
3. I didn't even pm chris about you. I asked him a question that's it.
4. No offence you sound like that Salarian Dalitrass about the bullying thing. Did Shepard bully her, no just getting a point across from her stupid own logic. I am not saying your stupid, but more or less you don't understand IT at all.

you dont know my attitude, you all keep attacking me rather then let me make comments, heres a tip, leave me be and see rather then troll or threaten. you may be surprised, im not a combative person by nature. But i will defend myself. 

[masster blaster]

I am being attack here, frankly I wont be bullied away if i choose to be here, I am not trolling anyone, I am being accussed of it only. PM Chris all you like ive been sending him reports all evening. I've not been attacking anyone, cussing or trying to insult IT in general, you all are attacking me.



Wait you have been sending Chris about this. Oh that's it I have had it. I am going to another thread for a while. Bad your wrong your not the innocent person here. You came into the thread, and provoked us. So all we have to do is senf Chris your first post and that's it.

Also he has said many times.

If you don't like IT, then stay away, and IT is a valid interpitation.

[BleedingUranium]

byne wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Let's change the example a bit: The Reapers wrote a book, but you obviously shouldn't read it because the physical part of the book is made out of Reaper tech. So instead you copy the words of the book (ctrl+c) onto a physical book you built yourself, and add and remove parts to make it work for you better.

You're using Reaper knowledge, there's nothing wrong with that. It's the same as the Protheans building their own mass relay and us building Thanix cannons.

-Are we using physical Reaper tech, as in, the stuff that indoctrinates? No.
-Are we using technology without understanding how it works, as in, advancing along the path the Reapers desire? No.

No problem then.

Yes, I understand that. But what if Reaper code is the synthetic form of indoctrination? An incredibly advanced and complex code with hidden subroutines?

I realize that's not really a question that can be answered. Let me phrase it like this:

How do the Reapers control synthetics?

Through code? Nanites that influence their processors? Both?

Do we even have an idea?

Legion says they dont really control the geth, they just changed the way they thought a bit. The heretics were technically following the Reapers of their own free will, and not being controlled at all.

Right, which is exactly what indoctrination is: No control, just influence. If you choose to agree with the Reapers' ideology or methods, you're indoctrinated. Period.

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

OK
1. You simply have no pointer to tell you if it's on the Citadel or on Earth. You simply say "[it] is still on Earth" because you want it to. This is ignorant behavior.
3. How is it irrelevant when the developers thought it is relevant enough to actually add a different one? The Opt Out choice shows you blatantly what it looks like if you choose not to use the Crucible. Shepard being indoctrinated would also result in the Crucible not being used, as no one is there to do it like when Shep decides not to, as evidenced in Opt Out.

1- What??? We never needed the so-called Mako to know it was Earth.

3-This is no different than saying that Synthesis is possible because I saw it happen. According to IT it didn't happen, that's the whole point! Also, symbolic fourth-wall breaking scene.

1. No, you did not know. You just assumed and spouted it out as the truth.

3. Again, you assume and declare it truth.

[BansheeOwnage]

byne wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

byne wrote...

I wish everyone would just shut the hell up with the arguing.

Indeed

Home Run!  That's the exact thing I thought of when reading that, and Dwailing's post. Didn't know you watched Red vs. Blue!

I didnt know Home Run watched RvB either! Or maybe I did and forgot.

Yeah... I was hoping I didn't do that too.

[BatmanTurian]

badmojo88 wrote...

for the #1- you'd be surprised, bare in mind not the framework
, but the structures within? sure they would. 

#2 may shock you but im right with you there believe it or not
#3 the Entire 'choice' bit is an open and closed farse, as in babylon 5 the shadows and volrons wanted the young races to pick a side, one or the other, but the correct choice was to not choose at all. Same with the starchild, but then again its a question of is it really good story telling (IT real) or lazy and fail story telling (IT a lie) 

1. I think that's presumptuous. London is more likely to have broken concrete and rebar than the citadel, which is more likely to be made of more resiliant materials and alloys. Concrete breaks down and cracks over time from stress and moisture. It is unlikely it would be used on a space station.

2. Kay

3. I can't really argue with opinion and head canon so believe what you like. I can tell you, however, that bioware has more of a history of great storytelling, mindscrews, and twists than bad storytelling.

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

OK
1. You simply have no pointer to tell you if it's on the Citadel or on Earth. You simply say "[it] is still on Earth" because you want it to. This is ignorant behavior.
3. How is it irrelevant when the developers thought it is relevant enough to actually add a different one? The Opt Out choice shows you blatantly what it looks like if you choose not to use the Crucible. Shepard being indoctrinated would also result in the Crucible not being used, as no one is there to do it like when Shep decides not to, as evidenced in Opt Out.

1- What??? We never needed the so-called Mako to know it was Earth.

3-This is no different than saying that Synthesis is possible because I saw it happen. According to IT it didn't happen, that's the whole point! Also, symbolic fourth-wall breaking scene.

1. No, you did not know. You just assumed and spouted it out as the truth.

3. Again, you assume and declare it truth.

1- I never spout out anything as truth here, but since this is the IT thread, we don't need to make that point clear.

3- See above.

IT is about things not being taken literally, and you're insisting on taking things literally.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 24 novembre 2012 - 02:14 .

[badmojo88]

@masster blaster or you can stop talking to me and not pretend you have the right to tell me where to be? trust me if you hadnt started in on me i wouldnt have ever commented, you bullied "leave before i get angry" is what you stated, ive been on this fourm 2 years longer then you, i dont care if you get angry, just leave me be if you dont like it but i have just as much right to post here as anyone, not trolling, not attacking, just dont continue baiting me.

[masster blaster]

badmojo88 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

...more IT really? please someone rick roll this now and put an end to this suffering! lol

.
If you disagree, state your reasons why. Otherwise, leave us to do what the developers intended: speculation.

1. Developers intend speculation and purposefully make the ending ambiguous
2. Playerbase cries bad writing and that everyone should take the ending at face value
3. Playerbase does not realize they are doing the exact opposite of what the developers intended. Make fun of the speculators anyway.
4. PROFIT???

I don't need to, -Bioware themselves- openly shot IT down at pax, their making plans to move on to ME4, IT would have been awsome if it were true, but since Bioware is not interested in embracing it-or rather EA. This is just people grasping at straws.

[masster blaster]

Look at what I posted above. That is YOU. You are not innocent at all, and that's why people on here are calling you a troll because you said that. This what you said.

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

byne wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Let's change the example a bit: The Reapers wrote a book, but you obviously shouldn't read it because the physical part of the book is made out of Reaper tech. So instead you copy the words of the book (ctrl+c) onto a physical book you built yourself, and add and remove parts to make it work for you better.

You're using Reaper knowledge, there's nothing wrong with that. It's the same as the Protheans building their own mass relay and us building Thanix cannons.

-Are we using physical Reaper tech, as in, the stuff that indoctrinates? No.
-Are we using technology without understanding how it works, as in, advancing along the path the Reapers desire? No.

No problem then.

Yes, I understand that. But what if Reaper code is the synthetic form of indoctrination? An incredibly advanced and complex code with hidden subroutines?

I realize that's not really a question that can be answered. Let me phrase it like this:

How do the Reapers control synthetics?

Through code? Nanites that influence their processors? Both?

Do we even have an idea?

Legion says they dont really control the geth, they just changed the way they thought a bit. The heretics were technically following the Reapers of their own free will, and not being controlled at all.

Right, which is exactly what indoctrination is: No control, just influence. If you choose to agree with the Reapers' ideology or methods, you're indoctrinated. Period.

Read Retribution. It can be both.

[badmojo88]

BatmanTurian wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

for the #1- you'd be surprised, bare in mind not the framework
, but the structures within? sure they would. 

#2 may shock you but im right with you there believe it or not
#3 the Entire 'choice' bit is an open and closed farse, as in babylon 5 the shadows and volrons wanted the young races to pick a side, one or the other, but the correct choice was to not choose at all. Same with the starchild, but then again its a question of is it really good story telling (IT real) or lazy and fail story telling (IT a lie) 

1. I think that's presumptuous. London is more likely to have broken concrete and rebar than the citadel, which is more likely to be made of more resiliant materials and alloys. Concrete breaks down and cracks over time from stress and moisture. It is unlikely it would be used on a space station.

2. Kay

3. I can't really argue with opinion and head canon so believe what you like. I can tell you, however, that bioware has more of a history of great storytelling, mindscrews, and twists than bad storytelling.

 hmm not presumptuous really ive worked reallife construction before, you'd be surprised what things people wouldnt think are made from those are, more over the citidels innereds were "rebuilt" by the other races, perhaps they did use those for the inner stuctures, some of the me3 citidel fights imply they did. 
#2 well to be fair it could have been a sperate light source, kinda unknown
as for 3#...Anders

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
1. There is still no rebar but cables, I don't know where you have that rebar idea coming from other then "it has to be in London, hey in London is rebar which looks basically the same, different but hey who cares right?". You also still ignore the shielded part and the option of moveable objects and the fact that the same "concrete" texture is indeed used for the Citadel. There is just nothing there that suggests Shepard is not on the Citadel.

3. Low EMS causes Shepard to die while the door of the Normandy opens, which is before that scene...

1. Okay, seriously, you're going to go back to the Reaper cable argument? To which I would reply that the conduit is made out of reaper technology, so there could be reaper cables nearby.  I'll tell you why Shepard isn't on the citadel. Shepard should be vaporized. Secondly, which place is more likely for concrete, London or the Citadel? Occam's Razor says London. If you think Shepard is on the Citadel, you have failed Physics 101.

3. People see a light before they die and other delusions.

[badmojo88]

masster blaster wrote...

Look at what I posted above. That is YOU. You are not innocent at all, and that's why people on here are calling you a troll because you said that. This what you said.

you need to stop

[IronSabbath88]

This constant bickering is what drove me away in the first place. I came back because it looked like things had calmed down quite a bit, now it's back to needless bickering.

Come on.

[BatmanTurian]

badmojo88 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

badmojo88 wrote...

for the #1- you'd be surprised, bare in mind not the framework
, but the structures within? sure they would. 

#2 may shock you but im right with you there believe it or not
#3 the Entire 'choice' bit is an open and closed farse, as in babylon 5 the shadows and volrons wanted the young races to pick a side, one or the other, but the correct choice was to not choose at all. Same with the starchild, but then again its a question of is it really good story telling (IT real) or lazy and fail story telling (IT a lie) 

1. I think that's presumptuous. London is more likely to have broken concrete and rebar than the citadel, which is more likely to be made of more resiliant materials and alloys. Concrete breaks down and cracks over time from stress and moisture. It is unlikely it would be used on a space station.

2. Kay

3. I can't really argue with opinion and head canon so believe what you like. I can tell you, however, that bioware has more of a history of great storytelling, mindscrews, and twists than bad storytelling.

 hmm not presumptuous really ive worked reallife construction before, you'd be surprised what things people wouldnt think are made from those are, more over the citidels innereds were "rebuilt" by the other races, perhaps they did use those for the inner stuctures, some of the me3 citidel fights imply they did. 
#2 well to be fair it could have been a sperate light source, kinda unknown
as for 3#...Anders

1. Occam's Razor says Jolly Ol' England is more likely to have concrete.

2. I don't think it's a separate light source.

3. Different team.