dorktainian wrote...
can i throw in my ''test'' theory where actually the whole thing (from ME1 to ME3) is in fact a test of shepard? Anderson & Udina flag this right at the start of ME1.
Or am i Nuts?
So Shepard is in a cryo chamber on the Normandy SR-1 dreaming it all up. Nah, that's not what happened.dorktainian wrote...
can i throw in my ''test'' theory where actually the whole thing (from ME1 to ME3) is in fact a test of shepard? Anderson & Udina flag this right at the start of ME1.
Or am i Nuts?
Krimzie wrote...
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Gwyphon wrote...
Does synthesis give us the ability to understand, or force us to? Honestly I don't feel as if I can comment on the details of synthesis until Bioware give us a little more understanding.
One thing is certain, Synthesis has to change how people think in at least some way because I doubt the entire Galaxy would just run with a forgive an forget mentality in regards to the Reapers who has already murdered millions in this cycle alone.
Pre-EC describes that synthesis puts energy of Shep "into a new framework. A new... DNA." EC adds "Your organic energy, the essence of who and what you are, will be broken down and then dispersed. The energy of the Crucible, released in this way, will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy." Integrating fully with synthetic technology... sounds a lot like forming a consensus.
BUT ANYWAY, the thing I always noticed is that "..." before "DNA." To me, that pause makes it clear that synth has nothing to DO with DNA (which makes the fact that BW gives no consideration to the "science" of it totally acceptable), and the Catalyst was just phrasing it in a way familiar to Shep. Synth alters the "framework" and allows "integration" and alters the "matrix" of life. And one does not simply toss around the word "matrix" in a post-Matrix popular culture without intending the implications (to SOME extent, at least. Not saying that everyone's in a Matrix virutal reality, but... it's also what I AM saying).
So yeah. I totally agree with you that synth has to change how people think -- but I'm gonna go one step further and say that it creates a new framework made ONLY out of thinking. No true corporeality. Every being is a platform with one kind of programming. Bam. Consensus. Bam. End of evolution.
paxxton wrote...
So Shepard is in a cryo chamber on the Normandy SR-1 dreaming it all up. Nah, that's not what happened.dorktainian wrote...
can i throw in my ''test'' theory where actually the whole thing (from ME1 to ME3) is in fact a test of shepard? Anderson & Udina flag this right at the start of ME1.
Or am i Nuts?
BleedingUranium wrote...
paxxton wrote...
So Shepard is in a cryo chamber on the Normandy SR-1 dreaming it all up. Nah, that's not what happened.dorktainian wrote...
can i throw in my ''test'' theory where actually the whole thing (from ME1 to ME3) is in fact a test of shepard? Anderson & Udina flag this right at the start of ME1.
Or am i Nuts?
Eight cryo pods, seven organic human-sized squadmates, and a pilot.
Shepard beats indoctrination, but Earth, and the forces there, are lost. ME4: Beat the Reapers 100 years later.
Not my personal choice of ending, but a very possible one.
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
BleedingUranium wrote...
paxxton wrote...
So Shepard is in a cryo chamber on the Normandy SR-1 dreaming it all up. Nah, that's not what happened.dorktainian wrote...
can i throw in my ''test'' theory where actually the whole thing (from ME1 to ME3) is in fact a test of shepard? Anderson & Udina flag this right at the start of ME1.
Or am i Nuts?
Eight cryo pods, seven organic human-sized squadmates, and a pilot.
Shepard beats indoctrination, but Earth, and the forces there, are lost. ME4: Beat the Reapers 100 years later.
Not my personal choice of ending, but a very possible one.
100 years later? Why not 50.000 years
Because the first IT thread was locked on page 2286.Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
BleedingUranium wrote...
paxxton wrote...
So Shepard is in a cryo chamber on the Normandy SR-1 dreaming it all up. Nah, that's not what happened.dorktainian wrote...
can i throw in my ''test'' theory where actually the whole thing (from ME1 to ME3) is in fact a test of shepard? Anderson & Udina flag this right at the start of ME1.
Or am i Nuts?
Eight cryo pods, seven organic human-sized squadmates, and a pilot.
Shepard beats indoctrination, but Earth, and the forces there, are lost. ME4: Beat the Reapers 100 years later.
Not my personal choice of ending, but a very possible one.
100 years later? Why not 50.000 years
Modifié par paxxton, 24 novembre 2012 - 10:17 .
We ran out. So cold...Rifneno wrote...
What's up guys? Are we still rambling about how the catalyst is so right about everything and geth are teh evil, or did the cocaine wear off?
*in Zaeed's voice*Davik Kang wrote...
Random thought, I'll srop it here to likely get swallowed up in the currents of time...
Sovereign says "you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding" or some such
In Synthesis, EDI says "Where once they threatened us with extinction...they know bring us the collective knowledge of the cultures that came before"
Perhaps our newly synthesised minds are capable of understanding now... given that we are likely united with our minds no longer separate, but conjoined as a new Reaper entity... and so joined to all other Reapers and their 'collective knowledge' of the previous cultures they've consumed...
Check the color (lighting) on any other part of the Geth ship. Then compare it to the second screen. Also if you're at replaying that level stop in some rooms and listen to the background.DoomsdayDevice wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
Browsing my ME pictures I remembered
*snip*
Still no one having any idea about these weird colors? Also if you look from the right angle in the second pic you can see that the lights at the top are in fact slightly green.
What is it exactly that you are wondering about? I'm kind of wondering what the point is, sorry. (No sarcasm)
demersel wrote...
Restraider. There is even a better thing.
You said yourself - the connection between an directly controlled/enthralled/heavily indoctrinated victim works both ways.
Ok. I agree. But you know what that means? (among other things?)
Leviathan touched Shepard's mind. And then right after that he suddenly changed his mind on a very important topic. We know that Shepard's mind has already been touched by indoctrination significantly by the start of ME3. So that basicly means that Leviathans in touching Shepards mind, directly might have cought on bits of indoctrination - like having unprotected sex. And that is why suddenly they are easily persuaded to come out of hiding and fight openly - easier for reapers to find them and process into new reapers.
Very unlikely and there is nothing there to support it. Also the vision you get from the Virmire beacon contains images of Sovereign and because of that I would rather assume the "you touch my mind" part was in the past.Restrider wrote...
*in Zaeed's voice*Davik Kang wrote...
Random thought, I'll srop it here to likely get swallowed up in the currents of time...
Sovereign says "you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding" or some such
In Synthesis, EDI says "Where once they threatened us with extinction...they know bring us the collective knowledge of the cultures that came before"
Perhaps our newly synthesised minds are capable of understanding now... given that we are likely united with our minds no longer separate, but conjoined as a new Reaper entity... and so joined to all other Reapers and their 'collective knowledge' of the previous cultures they've consumed...
This one takes me back... a couple of pages ago I tried to get people thinking about this very line.
Sovereign: "YOU ARE NOT SAREN. Rudamentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding..."
Here is the link (kudos to Garrus - Resident Tech Expert).
People usually claim that our team is having a conversation with Sovereign via a holo-interface. But what if what Sovereign said is not figuratively but to be taken literally?
On the other hand - at least in this thread - it is en vogue to state that the conversation with Harbinger in The Arrival DLC at a remote landing pad is a direct link between Harbinger and Shepard.
I see it this way. Sovereign was taken off guard and opened his mind to strangers that were not Saren and unintended - though that is not really that important - provided the team with revealing information about the nature of the Reapers. Maybe the whole conversation was a matter of seconds in real time, but seemed to be longer for the player and the ground team.
Anyways, we can assume - thanks to the conversations with Harbinger and Sovereign as well as the events at the end of ME1 - that the connection between an directly controlled/enthralled/heavily indoctrinated victim works both ways.
Thus, after Shepard realizes that he is being manipulated and that Harbinger has establish a connection, Shepard can fight Harbinger and gain valuable information that will somehow help us to beat the Reapers. Maybe information that will reveal the truth of the Crucible - being a Reaper trap - but also with ways to re-porpuse the Crucible combined with the Citadel to severely harm the Reapers ... somehow.
I really hope to get some answers, since the last time I posted this was during weird and slow times and it got lost in the endless nirvana of posts.
Restrider wrote...
demersel wrote...
Restraider. There is even a better thing.
You said yourself - the connection between an directly controlled/enthralled/heavily indoctrinated victim works both ways.
Ok. I agree. But you know what that means? (among other things?)
Leviathan touched Shepard's mind. And then right after that he suddenly changed his mind on a very important topic. We know that Shepard's mind has already been touched by indoctrination significantly by the start of ME3. So that basicly means that Leviathans in touching Shepards mind, directly might have cought on bits of indoctrination - like having unprotected sex. And that is why suddenly they are easily persuaded to come out of hiding and fight openly - easier for reapers to find them and process into new reapers.
That might be a reasonable explanation for the Leviathan's stange 180 regarding their participation in the war.
Some might say the Leviathan's were touched by Shepard's awesomeness and became Paragon (I know this is simplifying it heavily, but I really read this somewhere).
But I guess that your assertion are more likely. The Leviathan's were somehow revealed to the Reapers and in conclusion their strategy of hiding and waiting wouldn't work.
Doesn't have to do with Shepard being indoctrinated, though. Maybe they learned from Shepard's memories that the Reapers were onto them, if we assume the old Dr. Bryson was actually searching for the Leviathans as a Reaper agent. But then again, they would've already known that, since his assistant was enthralled.
Modifié par demersel, 24 novembre 2012 - 12:48 .
Of course the part about the Crucible = trap and such are heavy speculation. Just showing how it could work - imho.MegumiAzusa wrote...
Very unlikely and there is nothing there to support it. Also the vision you get from the Virmire beacon contains images of Sovereign and because of that I would rather assume the "you touch my mind" part was in the past.
You cling too much to the Crucible = trap thing.
As I wrote: the vision of the Virmire beacon displays Sovereign and it looks like it notices you and then kicks you out. After that you have a talk via holo terminal.Restrider wrote...
Of course the part about the Crucible = trap and such are heavy speculation. Just showing how it could work - imho.MegumiAzusa wrote...
Very unlikely and there is nothing there to support it. Also the vision you get from the Virmire beacon contains images of Sovereign and because of that I would rather assume the "you touch my mind" part was in the past.
You cling too much to the Crucible = trap thing.
You cannot deny the connection part, though. And I am not really sure what you mean with "it was in the past", mind to elaborate on it a bit more for clarifictaion?
I see. But that would imply that Sovereign has taken control of the prothean beacons.MegumiAzusa wrote...
As I wrote: the vision of the Virmire beacon displays Sovereign and it looks like it notices you and then kicks you out. After that you have a talk via holo terminal.Restrider wrote...
Of course the part about the Crucible = trap and such are heavy speculation. Just showing how it could work - imho.
You cannot deny the connection part, though. And I am not really sure what you mean with "it was in the past", mind to elaborate on it a bit more for clarifictaion?
You are jumping here. I only said there is a connection between the beacon on Virmire and Sovereign, not that it controls all the beacons. It is labeled comm room, but I cannot see what it would stop for them to experiment on the beacon, and over the course maybe they achieved a link without Saren (btw interesting sidethought: it was a Marauder that established a link to the Leviathan sphere).Restrider wrote...
I see. But that would imply that Sovereign has taken control of the prothean beacons.MegumiAzusa wrote...
As I wrote: the vision of the Virmire beacon displays Sovereign and it looks like it notices you and then kicks you out. After that you have a talk via holo terminal.Restrider wrote...
Of course the part about the Crucible = trap and such are heavy speculation. Just showing how it could work - imho.
You cannot deny the connection part, though. And I am not really sure what you mean with "it was in the past", mind to elaborate on it a bit more for clarifictaion?
What was the reason again for the hunt for beacons? I understand why Shepard and company tried to find new beacons, just to complete the vision Shepard had on Eden Prime.
As far as I know, Saren/Sovereign needed the information stored in the beacons to find out what happened to the Keepers, find Ilos and think of a contigency plan to reactivate the Citadel.
Furthermore after Eden Prime Benezia tells Saren/Sovereign about Shepard using the beacon. I guess Benezia used external sources and we can assume that - at least between Sovereign and the Eden Prime beacon - is no connection anymore if there ever was.
So, what is the purpose of the beacon on Virmire? Is it a direct link to Sovereign's mind used by Saren as a communication channel? If so, is there a holo-pad as a back-up comm-system? And what is it with Harbinger's holo in Arrival?
BleedingUranium wrote...
Krimzie wrote...
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Gwyphon wrote...
Does synthesis give us the ability to understand, or force us to? Honestly I don't feel as if I can comment on the details of synthesis until Bioware give us a little more understanding.
One thing is certain, Synthesis has to change how people think in at least some way because I doubt the entire Galaxy would just run with a forgive an forget mentality in regards to the Reapers who has already murdered millions in this cycle alone.
Pre-EC describes that synthesis puts energy of Shep "into a new framework. A new... DNA." EC adds "Your organic energy, the essence of who and what you are, will be broken down and then dispersed. The energy of the Crucible, released in this way, will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy." Integrating fully with synthetic technology... sounds a lot like forming a consensus.
BUT ANYWAY, the thing I always noticed is that "..." before "DNA." To me, that pause makes it clear that synth has nothing to DO with DNA (which makes the fact that BW gives no consideration to the "science" of it totally acceptable), and the Catalyst was just phrasing it in a way familiar to Shep. Synth alters the "framework" and allows "integration" and alters the "matrix" of life. And one does not simply toss around the word "matrix" in a post-Matrix popular culture without intending the implications (to SOME extent, at least. Not saying that everyone's in a Matrix virutal reality, but... it's also what I AM saying).
So yeah. I totally agree with you that synth has to change how people think -- but I'm gonna go one step further and say that it creates a new framework made ONLY out of thinking. No true corporeality. Every being is a platform with one kind of programming. Bam. Consensus. Bam. End of evolution.
He's purposefully using words that go over your head, and are really meaningless. There's a word for that, but I forget what it is.
Modifié par Eryri, 24 novembre 2012 - 01:22 .
Yeah, I know, I was kind of brainstorming.MegumiAzusa wrote...
You are jumping here. I only said there is a connection between the beacon on Virmire and Sovereign, not that it controls all the beacons. It is labeled comm room, but I cannot see what it would stop for them to experiment on the beacon, and over the course maybe they achieved a link without Saren (btw interesting sidethought: it was a Marauder that established a link to the Leviathan sphere).
Restrider wrote...
*in Zaeed's voice*Davik Kang wrote...
Random thought, I'll srop it here to likely get swallowed up in the currents of time...
Sovereign says "you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding" or some such
In Synthesis, EDI says "Where once they threatened us with extinction...they know bring us the collective knowledge of the cultures that came before"
Perhaps our newly synthesised minds are capable of understanding now... given that we are likely united with our minds no longer separate, but conjoined as a new Reaper entity... and so joined to all other Reapers and their 'collective knowledge' of the previous cultures they've consumed...
This one takes me back... a couple of pages ago I tried to get people thinking about this very line.
Sovereign: "YOU ARE NOT SAREN. Rudamentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding..."
Here is the link (kudos to Garrus - Resident Tech Expert).
People usually claim that our team is having a conversation with Sovereign via a holo-interface. But what if what Sovereign said is not figuratively but to be taken literally?
On the other hand - at least in this thread - it is en vogue to state that the conversation with Harbinger in The Arrival DLC at a remote landing pad is a direct link between Harbinger and Shepard.
I see it this way. Sovereign was taken off guard and opened his mind to strangers that were not Saren and unintended - though that is not really that important - provided the team with revealing information about the nature of the Reapers. Maybe the whole conversation was a matter of seconds in real time, but seemed to be longer for the player and the ground team.
Anyways, we can assume - thanks to the conversations with Harbinger and Sovereign as well as the events at the end of ME1 - that the connection between an directly controlled/enthralled/heavily indoctrinated victim works both ways.
Thus, after Shepard realizes that he is being manipulated and that Harbinger has establish a connection, Shepard can fight Harbinger and gain valuable information that will somehow help us to beat the Reapers. Maybe information that will reveal the truth of the Crucible - being a Reaper trap - but also with ways to re-porpuse the Crucible combined with the Citadel to severely harm the Reapers ... somehow.
I really hope to get some answers, since the last time I posted this was during weird and slow times and it got lost in the endless nirvana of posts.
umadcommander wrote...
Ive just had a thought, seeing as the rachni queen is the only organic being to have resisted reaper control that we know of, couldn't she help shepard break indoctrination to some extent. If this has been said before feel free to ignore this im just thinking aloud
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