80611 réponses à ce sujet

[lex0r11]

If that's the case and the DLC is packed with important lore, so that there is not enough material to show in a short trailer other than Shepard shooting someone for one minute..

Duuuuude. Can't be.
I mean it has Aria in it, just show here kicking lots off ass, nuff' shown.

[BleedingUranium]

Eryri wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

He's purposefully using words that go over your head, and are really meaningless. There's a word for that, but I forget what it is.

I think the word you have in mind might be sophistry?

"Sophism in the modern definition is a specious argument used for deceiving someone."

What's up guys? I've skipped over the last few pages.

Do you think they might be holding back on the Omega triler because it has too many potential spoilers? Maybe they want to reward the folks who buy it the minute it comes out with a genuine surprise? And then release a spoilerific trailer soon after, to entice those who might be feeling a bit jaded with DLC unless it has a bearing on the ending? 

That's it! Banshee's told be that plenty of times and I always forget

As for spoilers in the Omega trailer, if there are, then they're big, because this picture has been on the official Bioware site and used in various other promo things since Omega was officially launched

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 24 novembre 2012 - 01:35 .

[umadcommander]

[quote]umadcommander wrote...

Ive just had a thought, seeing as the rachni queen is the only organic being to have resisted reaper control that we know of, couldn't she help shepard break indoctrination to some extent. If this has been said before feel free to ignore this im just thinking aloud[/quote]

Yep, she's our leading candidate for helping Shepard wake up.

Something one of the devs said just before release was that the Rachni would play a significant role in the final battle with the Reapers.[/quote]

awesome i always liked the rachni, it would give more reward to saving her than just 100ems

[MegumiAzusa]

Restrider wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
You are jumping here. I only said there is a connection between the beacon on Virmire and Sovereign, not that it controls all the beacons. It is labeled comm room, but I cannot see what it would stop for them to experiment on the beacon, and over the course maybe they achieved a link without Saren (btw interesting sidethought: it was a Marauder that established a link to the Leviathan sphere).

Yeah, I know, I was kind of brainstorming.

So, your take on the events on Virmire are something like this?
You think that Sovereign has a link to the Virmire beacon after finding a way to circumvent the need of an organic to activate it. Then, while Sovereign is studying the beacon, there comes Shepard and interrupts him. Sovereign kicks him out at the end of the vision. After that Sovereign starts a discussion using the holo-pad to find out what the hell is going on in the base on Virmire and particularly in the comm-room. Hence the conversation with Sovereign and in the end the Reaper reveal.

I have to say, it is a possible interpretation, but I still miss an explanation regarding the holo-pad on a remote landing platform in Arrival.
If we assume the direct link between minds is not connected to the beacon, it appears to be more coherent - to me at least. Since we can label the communication between Sovereign on Virmire/Harbinger in Arrival and Shepard/his team with the same technique.

Your subjective wishes clouds your judgement. You want the connection between them. Yes we don't know if the dialog with Harbinger was enhanced by an holoemitter nearby or not but there are some points you miss:
The holo image on Virmire is different, there are also other holo dials right in front of Sovereign.
The image of Harbinger is more likely comparable to the image on the collector base, which still looks more like a holo image. Also it changes depending on you having done the suicide mission or not, for which there would be no explanation if you go with direct connection.

[BleedingUranium]

umadcommander wrote...

awesome i always liked the rachni, it would give more reward to saving her than just 100ems

Oh, and don't forget her promise in ME2. There isn't really another way to take that

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eryri wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

He's purposefully using words that go over your head, and are really meaningless. There's a word for that, but I forget what it is.

I think the word you have in mind might be sophistry?

"Sophism in the modern definition is a specious argument used for deceiving someone."

What's up guys? I've skipped over the last few pages.

Do you think they might be holding back on the Omega triler because it has too many potential spoilers? Maybe they want to reward the folks who buy it the minute it comes out with a genuine surprise? And then release a spoilerific trailer soon after, to entice those who might be feeling a bit jaded with DLC unless it has a bearing on the ending? 

That's it! Banshee's told be that plenty of times and I always forget

As for spoilers in the Omega trailer, if there are, then they're big, because this picture has been on the official Bioware site and used in various other promo things since Omega was officially launched

Which spoils nothing as you know you will kick some Cerberus butt anyway.

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
You are jumping here. I only said there is a connection between the beacon on Virmire and Sovereign, not that it controls all the beacons. It is labeled comm room, but I cannot see what it would stop for them to experiment on the beacon, and over the course maybe they achieved a link without Saren (btw interesting sidethought: it was a Marauder that established a link to the Leviathan sphere).

Yeah, I know, I was kind of brainstorming.

So, your take on the events on Virmire are something like this?
You think that Sovereign has a link to the Virmire beacon after finding a way to circumvent the need of an organic to activate it. Then, while Sovereign is studying the beacon, there comes Shepard and interrupts him. Sovereign kicks him out at the end of the vision. After that Sovereign starts a discussion using the holo-pad to find out what the hell is going on in the base on Virmire and particularly in the comm-room. Hence the conversation with Sovereign and in the end the Reaper reveal.

I have to say, it is a possible interpretation, but I still miss an explanation regarding the holo-pad on a remote landing platform in Arrival.
If we assume the direct link between minds is not connected to the beacon, it appears to be more coherent - to me at least. Since we can label the communication between Sovereign on Virmire/Harbinger in Arrival and Shepard/his team with the same technique.

Your subjective wishes clouds your judgement. You want the connection between them. Yes we don't know if the dialog with Harbinger was enhanced by an holoemitter nearby or not but there are some points you miss:
The holo image on Virmire is different, there are also other holo dials right in front of Sovereign.
The image of Harbinger is more likely comparable to the image on the collector base, which still looks more like a holo image. Also it changes depending on you having done the suicide mission or not, for which there would be no explanation if you go with direct connection.

Megumi, think about that for a second. If it's in Shepard's mind, then Shepard sees what Shepard thinks Harbinger is: the Collector General. It's the same as Quarian memories in the Geth Consensus wearing suits. And the end.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BleedingUranium wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

awesome i always liked the rachni, it would give more reward to saving her than just 100ems

Oh, and don't forget her promise in ME2. There isn't really another way to take that

Or the quote from Bioware pre launch that the Rachni would have a major impact on the ending.

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eryri wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

He's purposefully using words that go over your head, and are really meaningless. There's a word for that, but I forget what it is.

I think the word you have in mind might be sophistry?

"Sophism in the modern definition is a specious argument used for deceiving someone."

What's up guys? I've skipped over the last few pages.

Do you think they might be holding back on the Omega triler because it has too many potential spoilers? Maybe they want to reward the folks who buy it the minute it comes out with a genuine surprise? And then release a spoilerific trailer soon after, to entice those who might be feeling a bit jaded with DLC unless it has a bearing on the ending? 

That's it! Banshee's told be that plenty of times and I always forget

As for spoilers in the Omega trailer, if there are, then they're big, because this picture has been on the official Bioware site and used in various other promo things since Omega was officially launched

Which spoils nothing as you know you will kick some Cerberus butt anyway.

I think you're confusing spoiler with twist. Even without seeing this we all "knew" something like this would happen, but because of the picture we actually know.

[BleedingUranium]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

awesome i always liked the rachni, it would give more reward to saving her than just 100ems

Oh, and don't forget her promise in ME2. There isn't really another way to take that

Or the quote from Bioware pre launch that the Rachni would have a major impact on the ending.

I said that further up the page

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
You are jumping here. I only said there is a connection between the beacon on Virmire and Sovereign, not that it controls all the beacons. It is labeled comm room, but I cannot see what it would stop for them to experiment on the beacon, and over the course maybe they achieved a link without Saren (btw interesting sidethought: it was a Marauder that established a link to the Leviathan sphere).

Yeah, I know, I was kind of brainstorming.

So, your take on the events on Virmire are something like this?
You think that Sovereign has a link to the Virmire beacon after finding a way to circumvent the need of an organic to activate it. Then, while Sovereign is studying the beacon, there comes Shepard and interrupts him. Sovereign kicks him out at the end of the vision. After that Sovereign starts a discussion using the holo-pad to find out what the hell is going on in the base on Virmire and particularly in the comm-room. Hence the conversation with Sovereign and in the end the Reaper reveal.

I have to say, it is a possible interpretation, but I still miss an explanation regarding the holo-pad on a remote landing platform in Arrival.
If we assume the direct link between minds is not connected to the beacon, it appears to be more coherent - to me at least. Since we can label the communication between Sovereign on Virmire/Harbinger in Arrival and Shepard/his team with the same technique.

Your subjective wishes clouds your judgement. You want the connection between them. Yes we don't know if the dialog with Harbinger was enhanced by an holoemitter nearby or not but there are some points you miss:
The holo image on Virmire is different, there are also other holo dials right in front of Sovereign.
The image of Harbinger is more likely comparable to the image on the collector base, which still looks more like a holo image. Also it changes depending on you having done the suicide mission or not, for which there would be no explanation if you go with direct connection.

Megumi, think about that for a second. If it's in Shepard's mind, then Shepard sees what Shepard thinks Harbinger is: the Collector General. It's the same as Quarian memories in the Geth Consensus wearing suits. And the end.

Then you think about it: did Shepard see how Reapers look like? Yes.
Did Shepard ever see the Collector General? No.

That point rather proofs my case...

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 24 novembre 2012 - 01:45 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

  

If anything, this picture being shown very early indicates that theres more to Omega than getting Aria back her throne. It looks like they're interrogating him. He must know something about Cerberus's plans for Omega. 

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eryri wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

He's purposefully using words that go over your head, and are really meaningless. There's a word for that, but I forget what it is.

I think the word you have in mind might be sophistry?

"Sophism in the modern definition is a specious argument used for deceiving someone."

What's up guys? I've skipped over the last few pages.

Do you think they might be holding back on the Omega triler because it has too many potential spoilers? Maybe they want to reward the folks who buy it the minute it comes out with a genuine surprise? And then release a spoilerific trailer soon after, to entice those who might be feeling a bit jaded with DLC unless it has a bearing on the ending? 

That's it! Banshee's told be that plenty of times and I always forget

As for spoilers in the Omega trailer, if there are, then they're big, because this picture has been on the official Bioware site and used in various other promo things since Omega was officially launched

Which spoils nothing as you know you will kick some Cerberus butt anyway.

I think you're confusing spoiler with twist. Even without seeing this we all "knew" something like this would happen, but because of the picture we actually know.

Still it's no big spoiler, but used as the reason for why other spoilers have to be huge as in much bigger? You don't make any sense.

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Megumi, think about that for a second. If it's in Shepard's mind, then Shepard sees what Shepard thinks Harbinger is: the Collector General. It's the same as Quarian memories in the Geth Consensus wearing suits. And the end.

Then you think about it: did Shepard see how Reapers look like? Yes.
Did Shepard ever see the Collector General? No.

That point rather proofs my case...

Shepard didn't know Harbinger was a Reaper until after escaping the Collector base (but before talking to TIM), so that's irrelevant. But you're right about not knowing what the General looks like.

[umadcommander]

BleedingUranium wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

awesome i always liked the rachni, it would give more reward to saving her than just 100ems

Oh, and don't forget her promise in ME2. There isn't really another way to take that

nice, joining minds with the rachni would be awesome just to see what their 'song' sounds like

[MegumiAzusa]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

  

If anything, this picture being shown very early indicates that theres more to Omega than getting Aria back her throne. It looks like they're interrogating him. He must know something about Cerberus's plans for Omega.

Or Aria just likes some personal revenge as the comic made pretty clear.

[BleedingUranium]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

  

If anything, this picture being shown very early indicates that theres more to Omega than getting Aria back her throne. It looks like they're interrogating him. He must know something about Cerberus's plans for Omega. 

That's exactly what it looks like!

Also, on the topic of Starbinger:

"A sophism is taken as a specious argument used for deception. It might be crafted to appear logical while actually representing a falsehood, or it might use obscure words and complicated sentence constructions in order to intimidate the opponent into agreement out of fear of feeling foolish. Other techniques include manipulating the opponent's prejudices and emotions to overcome their logical faculties."

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Megumi, think about that for a second. If it's in Shepard's mind, then Shepard sees what Shepard thinks Harbinger is: the Collector General. It's the same as Quarian memories in the Geth Consensus wearing suits. And the end.

Then you think about it: did Shepard see how Reapers look like? Yes.
Did Shepard ever see the Collector General? No.

That point rather proofs my case...

Shepard didn't know Harbinger was a Reaper until after escaping the Collector base (but before talking to TIM), so that's irrelevant. But you're right about not knowing what the General looks like.

Shepard knows the artifact is a Reaper artifact, she knows the visions came from the Reapers, it shows the Reapers are coming. It all screams "REAPERS!" and then the Collector General pops up... what?

[BleedingUranium]

umadcommander wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

awesome i always liked the rachni, it would give more reward to saving her than just 100ems

Oh, and don't forget her promise in ME2. There isn't really another way to take that

nice, joining minds with the rachni would be awesome just to see what their 'song' sounds like

To sum up what she says: "We know you're looking for the Reapers, who indoctrinated the previous Rachni, so on that note, we'll be there to help you fight it off later."

[Eryri]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

 snip 

If anything, this picture being shown very early indicates that theres more to Omega than getting Aria back her throne. It looks like they're interrogating him. He must know something about Cerberus's plans for Omega. 

My thoughts exactly. Yes we "knew" we would have a showdown with Petrovsky at some point, but it's just not the done thing to spoil the climax of a story by actually showing it, clear as day, in pre-release publicity.

For this reason, I'm quietly hopeful that Omega may have something special up it's sleeve. I'll feel rather let down, if not.

[Restrider]

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...
Megumi, think about that for a second. If it's in Shepard's mind, then Shepard sees what Shepard thinks Harbinger is: the Collector General. It's the same as Quarian memories in the Geth Consensus wearing suits. And the end. [/quote]
Then you think about it: did Shepard see how Reapers look like? Yes.
Did Shepard ever see the Collector General? No.

That point rather proofs my case...[/quote]
At that point Shepard doesn't know Harbinger is a Reaper. Of course it is assumed that the Collectors are working for the Reapers early in ME2, but the reveal of Harbinger = Reaper was at the end of the game.
The player always thought that the Collector General is the main villian in ME2, but he isn't.

So, again. Shepard/the player doesn't know at that point that Harbinger is a Reaper. He thinks that Harbinger is the leader of the Collector and this leader has always been visualized as the Collector General.

So your questions have to be:
Did Shepard know that Harbinger is a Reaper? No.
Did Shepard ever see the Collector General? No, but in general he assumed that the leader of the Collectors is a Collector...

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Megumi, think about that for a second. If it's in Shepard's mind, then Shepard sees what Shepard thinks Harbinger is: the Collector General. It's the same as Quarian memories in the Geth Consensus wearing suits. And the end.

Then you think about it: did Shepard see how Reapers look like? Yes.
Did Shepard ever see the Collector General? No.

That point rather proofs my case...

Shepard didn't know Harbinger was a Reaper until after escaping the Collector base (but before talking to TIM), so that's irrelevant. But you're right about not knowing what the General looks like.

Shepard knows the artifact is a Reaper artifact, she knows the visions came from the Reapers, it shows the Reapers are coming. It all screams "REAPERS!" and then the Collector General pops up... what?

Harbinger being a Reaper is very obvious throughout ME2 in hindsight, but it is a twist that comes at the end of the suicide mission. I feel pretty much the same way about IT, they really beat you over the head with it sometimes.

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Megumi, think about that for a second. If it's in Shepard's mind, then Shepard sees what Shepard thinks Harbinger is: the Collector General. It's the same as Quarian memories in the Geth Consensus wearing suits. And the end.

Then you think about it: did Shepard see how Reapers look like? Yes.
Did Shepard ever see the Collector General? No.

That point rather proofs my case...

Shepard didn't know Harbinger was a Reaper until after escaping the Collector base (but before talking to TIM), so that's irrelevant. But you're right about not knowing what the General looks like.

Shepard knows the artifact is a Reaper artifact, she knows the visions came from the Reapers, it shows the Reapers are coming. It all screams "REAPERS!" and then the Collector General pops up... what?

Harbinger being a Reaper is very obvious throughout ME2 in hindsight, but it is a twist that comes at the end of the suicide mission. I feel pretty much the same way about IT, they really beat you over the head with it sometimes.

And sometimes you guys want it to be more then it really is...

Arrival alone makes it clear that Harbinger is a Reaper or a subordinate hell ME2 even tells you as much through TIM. The twist you are talking about is what they are using the abducted humans for. If there would be a direct connection that sort of deception wouldn't really work, or rather be pointless. Speaking to the image of the Collector General it basically taunts you that even if you delayed the Reapers, you can't even hope to have a chance against their minions. Their minions who blew Shep up in the first 5 minutes of the game btw.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 24 novembre 2012 - 02:10 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Oh btw a little headsup on the Talons for the ones of you who didn't read the books and have no idea what they are:
It's a Turian merc gang (who would have known by that name )
They are basically the rivals of Aria, they started out small, but their presence on Omega grew so big they are basically the only thread Aria has to worry about from a rival to take over Omega.
They are the only gang on Omega independent of Aria.
Because of that they there frequently used by Cerberus to rent docking bays and housing so it didn't fell under Arias radar.

[Restrider]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...
Yeah, I know, I was kind of brainstorming.

So, your take on the events on Virmire are something like this?
You think that Sovereign has a link to the Virmire beacon after finding a way to circumvent the need of an organic to activate it. Then, while Sovereign is studying the beacon, there comes Shepard and interrupts him. Sovereign kicks him out at the end of the vision. After that Sovereign starts a discussion using the holo-pad to find out what the hell is going on in the base on Virmire and particularly in the comm-room. Hence the conversation with Sovereign and in the end the Reaper reveal.

I have to say, it is a possible interpretation, but I still miss an explanation regarding the holo-pad on a remote landing platform in Arrival.
If we assume the direct link between minds is not connected to the beacon, it appears to be more coherent - to me at least. Since we can label the communication between Sovereign on Virmire/Harbinger in Arrival and Shepard/his team with the same technique.

Your subjective wishes clouds your judgement. You want the connection between them. Yes we don't know if the dialog with Harbinger was enhanced by an holoemitter nearby or not but there are some points you miss:
The holo image on Virmire is different, there are also other holo dials right in front of Sovereign.
The image of Harbinger is more likely comparable to the image on the collector base, which still looks more like a holo image. Also it changes depending on you having done the suicide mission or not, for which there would be no explanation if you go with direct connection.

Your take of the Virmire conversation is also inconsequential. You assume that the image of Sovereign in the vision is Sovereign kicking Shepard out of the beacon. Yet Sovereign or some random Reaper already appears while melding with Shiala (link 1), IIRC that also appears in post-Virmire meldings with Liara. That's at least a hit to the theory of Sovereign kicking out Shepard in the beacon vision.
I'm not saying that I am right, but as long as you cannot provide me with a consistent alternative, I'll still hold to my assertion.