80611 réponses à ce sujet

[spotlessvoid]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Well Jade Kenson refused, so I don't think it helps, but hey maybe they will add on to Destroy, and refuse. I think Destroy Shepard will loose less, but refuse Shepard will loose more, but speculations.

Remeber everyone that the only thing bad about refuse it that Shepard does nothing at the moment. If that changes, well...

Right, it's about puzzle pieces coming together to create a successful refuse option

[masster blaster]

To be honest I think they are doing IT/ PT, but not for refuse. I think refuse is Shepard breaking Indoctrination, but Shepard can't wake up. In a sense the whole thing was about killing the Reapers/ stoping them at all cost. Refuse is not doing anything but watch the galaxy burn, and Shepard doesn't die know he/she did everything he/she could to stop them because Destroy stops the Reapers.

Also what is the ems requierment for the best refuse?

Oh and again remember before the EC the child says.

" I know you thought about Destroying us"

But I don't know, but all I know is it's the Citadel dlc.

[BleedingUranium]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Spot in the Citadel dlc we go to the Reaper homeworld/ find out what Really happend to the Keepers. It's in the leaked dlc discription, so maybe. Also Jade maybe it's your theory, or our theory, or better yet TJ's Theory. Really it could be puzzle theory, but mixed with IT in all.

Honestly, Im hoping for a blend of IT and PT. I think if the crucible is a test, then the only way to pass the test is to believe in yourself, instead of relying on a machine to fix all your problems. Just like Saren and Kenson did.

I'd like to believe that, but there are two things that prevent me from thinking this is going to be the case:

1. Refuse wasn't one of the original endings. Granted, Bioware could have changed their mind.
2. The whole game beats you over the head with people saying you have no choice but to destroy.

Plus, if you think about it, you don't actually use the crucible in destroy. You shoot at something, so it blows up.

I think the crucible embodies that which Legion says in the ME2 ending. First off, we have no idea what it does. That symbolizes that we are not ready to use it. By using it, we choose the path others have laid out before us, and I'll say: probably the Reapers. We do not achieve our own future with it, we achieve the Reapers future. The Crucible symbolizes the magical 'quick and easy path', and of course it will doom us if we use it. (Which we do in control and synthesis)

By blowing it up, we reject the Reaper solution and the Reaper technology. We achieve our own future, by fighting on.

I mean, everybody always wondered why the hell we would be required to shoot something that we're supposed to activate, well, we're not activating it. We're blowing the damn thing up.

I think that's also the reason why the mass relays were destroyed in the original ending. It's symbolic of rejecting Reaper technology.

Well said! Destroy is really refusing, and Refuse is the failure to act.

[Fingertrip]

Why does this thread still exist

[archangel1996]

masster blaster wrote...

To be honest I think they are doing IT/ PT, but not for refuse. I think refuse is Shepard breaking Indoctrination, but Shepard can't wake up. In a sense the whole thing was about killing the Reapers/ stoping them at all cost. Refuse is not doing anything but watch the galaxy burn, and Shepard doesn't die know he/she did everything he/she could to stop them because Destroy stops the Reapers.

Also what is the ems requierment for the best refuse?

Oh and again remember before the EC the child says.

" I know you thought about Destroying us"

But I don't know, but all I know is it's the Citadel dlc.

refuse is the middle finger of BW But yes we can enterpretate that choice like this, Destroy, imo, is the last thing that Shepard does to break the indocrtination, he won the confrontation with TIM(reapers) thanks to Anderson(his/her conscience) and now Destroy is the way out

[demersel]

Fingertrip wrote...

Why does this thread still exist

We're a bunch of losers that have nothing better to do, than to keep it alive? Duh! 

Modifié par demersel, 25 novembre 2012 - 12:47 .

[spotlessvoid]

Fingertrip wrote...

Why does this thread still exist

For you

[lex0r11]

Fingertrip wrote...

Why does this thread still exist

[BleedingUranium]

Fingertrip wrote...

Why does this thread still exist

Because it's a thread.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 25 novembre 2012 - 12:50 .

[archangel1996]

Fingertrip wrote...

Why does this thread still exist

You have to help me here cuz i don't uderstand, if you don't care about this theory why do you came to check out? At least we discuss, but you and everyone like you? If you want to see if we are fine just ask! we are!

Modifié par archangel1996, 25 novembre 2012 - 12:50 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

Fingertrip wrote...

Why does this thread still exist

IT isn't just an organisation or the people behind it. IT is an idea; that idea is not so easily destroyed.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 25 novembre 2012 - 12:53 .

[BansheeOwnage]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Honestly, Im hoping for a blend of IT and PT. I think if the crucible is a test, then the only way to pass the test is to believe in yourself, instead of relying on a machine to fix all your problems. Just like Saren and Kenson did.

I'd like to believe that, but there are two things that prevent me from thinking this is going to be the case:

1. Refuse wasn't one of the original endings. Granted, Bioware could have changed their mind.

I love Jade's theory (I think it was her) that refuse was always going to be in the "reveal" as the way out, but because of backlash they added it in early. Hence, the only reason it does nothing is because it was added prematurely.

I also support that destroy and refuse could lead to victory.

@MB about no EMS requirement for refuse: That's not an argument. It just means anyone could pick it (no one could complain they couldn't break free) but your success would then depend on you EMS, making it more valuable in refuse.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If I may add my thoughts, I believe that Destroy would be breaking indoctrination IF this is Biowares intent (still not convinced but my IT experiment playthrough has been...intrigueing). I see refuse being a sacrifice of yourself to stop them from using you, like Saren and TIM do if you persuade them successfully.

[DoomsdayDevice]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Honestly, Im hoping for a blend of IT and PT. I think if the crucible is a test, then the only way to pass the test is to believe in yourself, instead of relying on a machine to fix all your problems. Just like Saren and Kenson did.

I'd like to believe that, but there are two things that prevent me from thinking this is going to be the case:

1. Refuse wasn't one of the original endings. Granted, Bioware could have changed their mind.

I love Jade's theory (I think it was her) that refuse was always going to be in the "reveal" as the way out, but because of backlash they added it in early. Hence, the only reason it does nothing is because it was added prematurely.

I also support that destroy and refuse could lead to victory.

@MB about no EMS requirement for refuse: That's not an argument. It just means anyone could pick it (no one could complain they couldn't break free) but your success would then depend on you EMS, making it more valuable in refuse.

I like that, and I could get behind it.

We'll see. =)

EDIT: Actually, no. I believe you have to still want to destroy the Reapers, sorry.

I totally forgot that was my main reason for disliking refuse: you don't want to destroy the Reapers any more.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 25 novembre 2012 - 01:11 .

[masster blaster]

YRNINot really Banshee. Nobody want to Destroy the Reapers. Think about it Kenson refused to stop the Reapers ends up Indoctrinated. Refuse is you are excepting the brats logic, and evey thing it's told you. Yes Destroy too, but not really. Shepard kills the Reapers, knowing he/she will die along with all the Synthetics. Yet for refuse Shepard is saying he/she will die free. Bs

Destroy Shepard dies free to. In a sense you could also say the brats not angry with Shepard in refuses, more like happy because. Sometimes when I raise my voice it could mean I am angry, or happy. In a sense Shepard just refused Destroy, which could wake him/she up.

[BleedingUranium]

masster blaster wrote...

YRNINot really Banshee. Nobody want to Destroy the Reapers. Think about it Kenson refused to stop the Reapers ends up Indoctrinated. Refuse is you are excepting the brats logic, and evey thing it's told you. Yes Destroy too, but not really. Shepard kills the Reapers, knowing he/she will die along with all the Synthetics. Yet for refuse Shepard is saying he/she will die free. Bs

Destroy Shepard dies free to. In a sense you could also say the brats not angry with Shepard in refuses, more like happy because. Sometimes when I raise my voice it could mean I am angry, or happy. In a sense Shepard just refused Destroy, which could wake him/she up.

You don't accept the kid's logic in either Destroy or Refuse. The kid's mad in Refuse because he broke Shepard, whereas with Destroy Shepard is still Shepard, and he can try again later.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Yeah, I'm with MB on this. (see my edit)

In refuse, you no longer want to destroy the Reapers. I think that is really crucial, the will to fight.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 25 novembre 2012 - 01:12 .

[masster blaster]

Also refuse to me is Shepard betraying everyone. We are suppost to kill the Reapers, and when we have a chance to, we can't do it. That's the point. If you can't kill the Reapers, then you fail. In refuse you fail to stop the Reapers, as well as saving anyone. You have a chance to finish the Reapers off. It's like if luke refused to Destroy the death star. He would let everyone fight to the death, knowing that he could have Destroyed the Death star in 1 shot.

[BansheeOwnage]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
EDIT: Actually, no. I believe you have to still want to destroy the Reapers, sorry.

I totally forgot that was my main reason for disliking refuse: you don't want to destroy the Reapers any more.

You still want to destroy them, just not on the terms of the kid. Listen to the speech again. And Shepard's speech isn't about giving up. It's about continuing to fight, to the death if necessary. The only reason it's bad it because Shepard doesn't do anything after that. Blame BW, not Shepard.

[DoomsdayDevice]

I'm not convinced. Why refuse the destroy option if you still want to destroy them?

I'll have a look at the refuse ending again.

[BleedingUranium]

No will to act = no win in refuse

Picking apart the details of what Shepards says doesn't really matter, the choices are representitive of Shepard's goal.

Synthesis = Agreeing with the Reapers and what they're doing

Control = Being tricked into helping them and being used by them

Refuse = Failure to act, lack of resolve, not willing to do what is necessary

Destroy = You still want to destroy the Reapers, which is what you've always wanted to do

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 25 novembre 2012 - 01:19 .

[Davik Kang]

can any of you MP cats explain why i have an asari sentinel with all 105 level up points

[BansheeOwnage]

Davik Kang wrote...

can any of you MP cats explain why i have an asari sentinel with all 105 level up points

 I want it please!

I have no idea how that happened!

[Gwyphon]

As much as I love the refuse speech (which in my opinion is the only reason refuse might be the way out), I still think destroy is breaking free. As said above, no one indoctrinated ever wants to destroy the reapers. Even when you convince them to shoot themselves it is generally by saying "the reapers are using you" over and over again. They never get a revelation to destroy the reapers. Unless, of course, the ending isan extra 30 seconds of you shooting yourself... 

Edit: Top and beautiful.

Modifié par Gwyphon, 25 novembre 2012 - 01:18 .

[Rifneno]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Well Jade Kenson refused, so I don't think it helps, but hey maybe they will add on to Destroy, and refuse. I think Destroy Shepard will loose less, but refuse Shepard will loose more, but speculations.

Kenson refused, but she didn't refuse the Reapers, she refused to follow through on her task. It's different, almost opposite.

I don't think Kenson refused.  Remember her mad rambling about never getting to see the Reaper's promises fulfilled.  She definitely thought she was getting something awesome from them when they got there.