80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Davik Kang]

 Not wanting to stir things up (this is of course a lie, I am absolutely trying to stir) but






Davik Kang considers Refuse to be every bit as bad as Synthesis.

[BleedingUranium]

masster blaster wrote...

Also Shepard doesn't think the brats lying. Shepard doesn't know what to think. Also I said what if the brat isn't angry in refuse. What if he is rasing his voice because he is happy that Shepard refused. Since Shepard doesn't want to pick Destroy/ wake up, then he has won. You have to realize Banshee if Destroy wakes Shepard up, which we see does in the breath scene, then the brat lied about Destroy.

So Shepard didn't kill anyone, and that means yor hands are clean. Think about it that's the handy cap about Destroy. We kill the Synthetics right. If they weren't a target, then everyone would pick Destroy. That can be the same as refuse. People don't pick it as much because Shepard does nothing. That's the point. If Bioware added on to refuse, then what. So everything that we speculated about was bad writing all together.

Shepard surviving Harbingers laser, the Normandy pick up scene, I mean everything. The literalist would be right after all. I mean come on. So everything was bad writing. All the things we comed up with was actually bad writing. I see Puzzle theory for IT, but for refuse no.

Unless they show Shepard waking up, then ya I would get it, but if it's a continuation after that point. I am done. There is just so much bad writing then.

These are not literal options, there's no "glad he didn't choose destroy"!

Refuse being the best is thematically bad. It says that if the hero is doesn't stay true to his goal of killing his foe, and instead does nothing, and is unwilling to sacrifice some of his soldiers to win, he'll win anyway.

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Eryri wrote...

 Woo-hoo! Two of my quotes were worthy of the wall of awesome! 

Cheers Banshee!

More like wall of entitlement, like the post that accuses everyone who doesn't pick destroy of being indoctrinated. Nice ego pushing going on again.

You realize it was Banshee's personal collection of quotes he liked, and he only posted it because others asked him to, right?

You dont have to be negative about every bloody thing, Megumi.

Doesn't make it better, also I'm not negative about every bloody thing as you could see from my last few posts. Also interestingly I'm only called negative when I argue against IT and what people write, I wonder why.

[byne]

Davik Kang wrote...

 Not wanting to stir things up (this is of course a lie, I am absolutely trying to stir) but

*snip*

Davik Kang considers Refuse to be every bit as bad as Synthesis.

Well, as long as we're referencing KotoR, this sums up refuse pretty well.

[Davik Kang]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Shiala: (on Benezia) "She always sought the paths of peace and harmony. She joined with Saren because she hoped to turn him away from his path of destruction."

HEAVY SPECULATION ALERT

Imagine if Benezia, with all her good intentions, actually allowed Saren to be more easily turned to the Reapers' way of thinking.  'Turning him away from destruction' and amking him consider those he could save may have actually helped convince him to try to spare as many as possible by acquiescing to the Reapers' grand plan.

[demersel]

I'm sorry, but I don't like refuse, don't think it is the victory option, don't want it to be, and will be very sad and dissapointed if it will turn out be one.
Here's why:
Ok, let's assume the ending is a test on you, whether or not the reapers get you.
the test is supposed to have right options and wrong options. We have three options. At least one of them must a right option. If there is no right option at that moment - the test is pointless. It is not possible to win. (and by win i mean survive, to fight another day) the whole saga becomes pointless.
Refuse was not in the original endings. So for four months there is no possible way to win the game? Bull****.
And ok, refuse is added. and it is a true win option. Really? So for four months people have played the game, really cared about it, were really torn by the ending choice, but after much inner debate make it, and now you jump out of the bushes and scream Ha_Ha, suckers! You were tricked! Duped! You got indoctrinated! No ****. How could we not to?

Next.
Another option, Ok so initially there was a right answer, and it was one of the three. (we know it is destroy, for a number of reasons, for for the sake of the arguments, let's not pick favourites here - one of the three), but due to the large outcry, the ending was changed, and that one right option was switched to be wrong, and instead one new option is added, and now it is the right one instead.
Ok... so what about the people who did play the game, in those three monts and did pick the option that used to be right one? They now all have to go, nah, there is a better one now, screw that old one? People really care about the choices they have made in those games. If anything, people that picked wrong, might get a better and more interesting story out of it! It is like with kill or save the council. Save the council generally considered to be a better option, but really, the story is much better with the council dead - the setting is more interesting, the reletions between races are more tense, conflicts are more apparent, etc.

Face it. Refuse is a third wrong option. Designed from the get go so LESS people will pick the right one. To make the test HARDER.


@Blur. The kid is mad in refuse, because after all its efforts he got himself just another husk.
Remember - slow patient indoctrination is what creates sleeper agents. But reapers can do it really fast. Force it. And you'll be just a husk. Or a mindless drooling zombie, like those salarians on Virmire.

Again, if the ending is all a dream and halluciantion - those options represent your intentions. You have NO reason to chose Refuse over Destroy if you want the reapers dead.

If the endings are literal, and you are really standing in space on the outside of the citadel, right below the docked crucible, and is having a long phylosophical debate with a ghostly kid, while terrible battle rages on all around you, with millions of people dying - you might be afraid, that the options do not really do what the kid says they do, because the kid is clearly is not telling you the truth and is not your friend. Fair enough. Indeed, why would a leader of your enemy (who is winning by the way, and by a lot) will willingly tell you the real way to destroy him, all his forces, and all what he stands for, with just a couple of bullets? No reason at all. In fact it s 100% to be a trick. But hey, we are being literal here. And you know what? Destroy does what it says. It Destroyes the reapers and ends the war. Control cotnrols the reapers, and ends the war. Synthesis kills all organic life and ends the war. Refuse does NOTHING. Everyone dies, and the next cycle defeats the reapers (though you don't know which next). Yeah. Really. Good job. Your cycle had everything to defeat the reapers, but no. That would be wrong.

Control is vain.
Synthesis is stupid.

Refuse - is being stupid and being proud of it.

And to those woh like the refuse speech so much - you're not really hearing what it says, all you hear is what you want it to say. Refuse for you is your option - your chance to tell off the kid who annoys you. And you project your hopes and views of how you think things should be and what should be said and done in that situation on this speech and this option. But the speech is really weak. It has no point. Besides, paragon options for shepard get more and more deliruios and nonesense the further you go into ME3. 

Refuse speech is exactly what people on planet Miranda did in the movie serenity  - you lay down and die. 

Modifié par demersel, 25 novembre 2012 - 01:56 .

[Davik Kang]

byne wrote...
Well, as long as we're referencing KotoR, this sums up refuse pretty well.

For quoting Kreia you instantly become one of my favourite people of all time.
 
The first time I played KotOR II, I thought that many of the characters were cardboard cut-out clichés.  I ended up playing through 5 times and discovered some of the most well-developed characters I'd ever seen in a videogame, and that holds true to this day.

And Kreia was probably the best of all.  Her voice actress (Sara Kestelman) did an amazing job of bringing her to life too.

[Davik Kang]

demersel wrote...
I'm sorry, but I don't like refuse, don't think it is the victory option, don't want it to be, and will be very sad and dissapointed if it will turn out be one...
*snip*
...Refuse - is being stupid and being proud of it.

Yes.  Agree with all.

Refuse is seeing 25 people tied to a train track, seeing a train coming in the distance, estimating that you only have time to save 20, and deciding not to untie anybody because it's unfair on the other 5

[byne]

Davik Kang wrote...

demersel wrote...
I'm sorry, but I don't like refuse, don't think it is the victory option, don't want it to be, and will be very sad and dissapointed if it will turn out be one...
*snip*
...Refuse - is being stupid and being proud of it.

Yes.  Agree with all.

Refuse is seeing 25 people tied to a train track, seeing a train coming in the distance, estimating that you only have time to save 20, and deciding not to untie anybody because it's unfair on the other 5

But you make a pretty speech, and then trains kill everyone.

Also, talking about trains made this pop into my head.

[BleedingUranium]

Davik Kang wrote...

demersel wrote...
I'm sorry, but I don't like refuse, don't think it is the victory option, don't want it to be, and will be very sad and dissapointed if it will turn out be one...
*snip*
...Refuse - is being stupid and being proud of it.

Yes.  Agree with all.

Refuse is seeing 25 people tied to a train track, seeing a train coming in the distance, estimating that you only have time to save 20, and deciding not to untie anybody because it's unfair on the other 5

Close. It's seeing 25 people on a train track and seeing a train coming, and you have the option to pull a lever that will divert the train to a different track that only has 5. And you do nothing.

[Jadebaby]

Rifneno wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Well Jade Kenson refused, so I don't think it helps, but hey maybe they will add on to Destroy, and refuse. I think Destroy Shepard will loose less, but refuse Shepard will loose more, but speculations.

Kenson refused, but she didn't refuse the Reapers, she refused to follow through on her task. It's different, almost opposite.

I don't think Kenson refused.  Remember her mad rambling about never getting to see the Reaper's promises fulfilled.  She definitely thought she was getting something awesome from them when they got there.

Did she not refuse to blow up the relay?

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Eryri wrote...

 Woo-hoo! Two of my quotes were worthy of the wall of awesome! 

Cheers Banshee!

More like wall of entitlement, like the post that accuses everyone who doesn't pick destroy of being indoctrinated. Nice ego pushing going on again.

You realize it was Banshee's personal collection of quotes he liked, and he only posted it because others asked him to, right?

You dont have to be negative about every bloody thing, Megumi.

Doesn't make it better, also I'm not negative about every bloody thing as you could see from my last few posts. Also interestingly I'm only called negative when I argue against IT and what people write, I wonder why.

It's not about what you're saying, it's how you're saying it.

[spotlessvoid]

Entitled idiots, I'm clearly not negative. Just because I proved IT wrong with one fact doesn't mean you have to act like hypocritical crybabies. Stop clinging to your childish delusions. While I'm at it, you're enjoying yourselves too much. Also, you're not allowed to like anything I disagree with or you're stupid.

[401 Kill]

Has the Omega trailer been aquired?

[BleedingUranium]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Well Jade Kenson refused, so I don't think it helps, but hey maybe they will add on to Destroy, and refuse. I think Destroy Shepard will loose less, but refuse Shepard will loose more, but speculations.

Kenson refused, but she didn't refuse the Reapers, she refused to follow through on her task. It's different, almost opposite.

I don't think Kenson refused.  Remember her mad rambling about never getting to see the Reaper's promises fulfilled.  She definitely thought she was getting something awesome from them when they got there.

Did she not refuse to blow up the relay?

You're both right. It seems like she Refused because of Synthesis, bascially.

[BleedingUranium]

401 Kill wrote...

Has the Omega trailer been aquired?

Negative, it's still missing in action.

[masster blaster]

Also think about this. Refuse is like if luke didn't want to Destroy the Death star because R2, and C3PO, and all robots will die once the Death star is Destroy. Look what would have happened. Death Star blows up Yavin 4, and boom more people die.

Luke could have Destroyed the Death star and they would have won, but the empire would come back in the end.

[Jadebaby]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
EDIT: Actually, no. I believe you have to still want to destroy the Reapers, sorry.

I totally forgot that was my main reason for disliking refuse: you don't want to destroy the Reapers any more.

I wouldn't say one is more than the other. Destroy you show you want to destroy the Reapers by acting on it.

Refuse you show you want to destroy the Reapers by saying it. "I did everything I could to stop you!"

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 25 novembre 2012 - 02:11 .

[Davik Kang]

BleedingUranium wrote...
Close. It's seeing 25 people on a train track and seeing a train coming, and you have the option to pull a lever that will divert the train to a different track that only has 5. And you do nothing.

Yeah that's a better comparison.  I have a medical analogy too, but will save that for when things get SERRRIUSS

[demersel]

Davik Kang wrote...

demersel wrote...
I'm sorry, but I don't like refuse, don't think it is the victory option, don't want it to be, and will be very sad and dissapointed if it will turn out be one...
*snip*
...Refuse - is being stupid and being proud of it.

Yes.  Agree with all.

Refuse is seeing 25 people tied to a train track, seeing a train coming in the distance, estimating that you only have time to save 20, and deciding not to untie anybody because it's unfair on the other 5

Exaclty. You don't want to pick destroy cause it kills the geth and EDI? Quess what!   In refuse - they still die! And not only them!

You don't want to pick destroy because you think that the kid is tricking you? And you think that by rejecting his option you will have a chance to win convetionally? Quess what! That means that you belive the situation is you're in and the kid is real, and you're really there! Why? Because if it isn't - it is only about you, your mind, and your life! And the answer really determines whether or not you wake up at all -  If it is possible to win convetionally with your EMS score  IT WILL HAPPEN REGARDLESS OF YOUR CHOICE HERE, BECAUSE WHILE YOU ARE ASLEEP DREAMING ALL YOU ASSETS ARE FIGHTING THE REAPERS WITHOUT YOU!

If you don't accept that you're dreaming - then everything must be for real. And refuse really does what it does as seen in the brief ending cinematic. 

Refuse is the worst option. 

If literal - it is the only option in which everyone in this cycle die. And possible the next. And possibly the next. And possibly the next. ETC. 

If not literal - it is still the worst option - because your shepard dies. In other options he at least become an indoctrinated agent with a chance at redemtion. In refuse - brain dead. (of course you could argue that they can always lazarus you again, but really, would they? given how dumb you turned out to be?)

[BleedingUranium]

masster blaster wrote...

Also think about this. Refuse is like if luke didn't want to Destroy the Death star because R2, and C3PO, and all robots will die once the Death star is Destroy. Look what would have happened. Death Star blows up Yavin 4, and boom more people die.

Luke could have Destroyed the Death star and they would have won, but the empire would come back in the end.

Without making up details, it would be like if Lando and Wedge didn't destroy the Death Star II's reactor because Luke was still on it.

[MegumiAzusa]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Entitled idiots, I'm clearly not negative. Just because I proved IT wrong with one fact doesn't mean you have to act like hypocritical crybabies. Stop clinging to your childish delusions. While I'm at it, you're enjoying yourselves too much. Also, you're not allowed to like anything I disagree with or you're stupid.

Not my problem that this little thing can collapse most of IT if you just think about it logically.

[demersel]

masster blaster wrote...

Also think about this. Refuse is like if luke didn't want to Destroy the Death star because R2, and C3PO, and all robots will die once the Death star is Destroy. Look what would have happened. Death Star blows up Yavin 4, and boom more people die.

Luke could have Destroyed the Death star and they would have won, but the empire would come back in the end.

When i was a little kid, i truly could not comprehend why do they still blow up the second deathstar when the Empreror and Vader are already dead.... seemed like such a waste for me. I mean it cost money and manhours to build. It has a lot of space, You could just dismantle the cannons or something....

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Entitled idiots, I'm clearly not negative. Just because I proved IT wrong with one fact doesn't mean you have to act like hypocritical crybabies. Stop clinging to your childish delusions. While I'm at it, you're enjoying yourselves too much. Also, you're not allowed to like anything I disagree with or you're stupid.

Not my problem that this little thing can collapse most of IT if you just think about it logically.

I have, it doesn't.

[spotlessvoid]

1. Missed the point. You have been incredibly rude and condescending and then play the victim

2. What's this proof again?