80611 réponses à ce sujet

[DoomsdayDevice]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
EDIT: Actually, no. I believe you have to still want to destroy the Reapers, sorry.

I totally forgot that was my main reason for disliking refuse: you don't want to destroy the Reapers any more.

I wouldn't say one is more than the other. Destroy you show you want to destroy the Reapers by acting on it.

Refuse you show you want to destroy the Reapers by saying it. "I did everything I could to stop you!"

Shep says she did everything, yet she decides to do nothing. I'm not convinced, sorry.

By the way, did you see my post where I said you don't actually use the crucible in destroy, but you destroy it, and how that symbolizes achieving our own future?

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 25 novembre 2012 - 02:16 .

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Not my problem that this little thing can collapse most of IT if you just think about it logically.

Whcih thing is that?

[401 Kill]

Davik Kang wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Not my problem that this little thing can collapse most of IT if you just think about it logically.

Whcih thing is that?

Obviously it's bad writing. 

(I am being sarcastic, seeing as IT is currently a "valid interpretation").

[demersel]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I wouldn't say one is more than the other. Destroy you show you want to destroy the Reapers by acting on it.

Refuse you show you want to destroy the Reapers by saying it. "I did everything I could to stop you!"

Not really. 
In Control you want to control all the reapers.
In Synthesis you want to turn everyone into reapers.
In Destroy you want to destroy the reapers.
In Refuse you want to make a point to  the reapers by dying free and on your own terms. 

Modifié par demersel, 25 novembre 2012 - 02:24 .

[401 Kill]

demersel wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I wouldn't say one is more than the other. Destroy you show you want to destroy the Reapers by acting on it.

Refuse you show you want to destroy the Reapers by saying it. "I did everything I could to stop you!"

Not really. 
In Control you want to control all the reapers.
In Synthesis you want to turn everyone into reapers.
In Destroy you want to destroy the reapers.
In Refuse you want to show the reapers that you can die free and on your own terms. 

Refuse can also be seen as "I don't trust you, there is another way to stop the Reapers without playing your game."

[Jadebaby]

*facepalm*

edit:

401 Kill wrote...

Refuse can also be seen as "I don't trust you, there is another way to stop the Reapers without playing your game."

Thank you.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 25 novembre 2012 - 02:26 .

[demersel]

401 Kill wrote...

Refuse can also be seen as "I don't trust you, there is another way to stop the Reapers without playing your game."

It can be seen like that, and is seen like that, because it is what YOU as a player WANT to do. But it isn't that. 

[masster blaster]

demersel wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I wouldn't say one is more than the other. Destroy you show you want to destroy the Reapers by acting on it.

Refuse you show you want to destroy the Reapers by saying it. "I did everything I could to stop you!"

Not really. 
In Control you want to control all the reapers.
In Synthesis you want to turn everyone into reapers.
In Destroy you want to destroy the reapers.
In Refuse you want to make a point to  the reapers by dieing free and on your own terms. 

this^ look jade I like your theory, but that'sthe problem. refuse is this. you givr up. your Shepard doesn't fight anymore because he/she will die free.

Also for Destroy the brat tells Shepard what will happen, but that's the point. if we believe that teh brat is telling the truth, yes even in refuse excepts that it's the truth, just like Liara can't except that her people were just experiments to the Protheans.

[byne]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

*facepalm*

edit:

401 Kill wrote...

Refuse can also be seen as "I don't trust you, there is another way to stop the Reapers without playing your game."

Thank you.

And what exactly is Shepard basing that assumption on?

[demersel]

@ Jade. Let's make a little experiment.
Post here the text of Refuse speech. Just the text, not the link to a video.

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

*facepalm*

edit:

401 Kill wrote...

Refuse can also be seen as "I don't trust you, there is another way to stop the Reapers without playing your game."

Thank you.

And what exactly is Shepard basing that assumption on?

As if any other assumption then "I don't trust you" is more grounded.

[masster blaster]

Also when Shepard says " And if I die. I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you..." that's when I stopped. I mean hello Destroy is right there, and I say bs that Shepard says he/she will die free. In Destroy we are sticking it to the Reapers.

Shepard: I won't let fear comprises who I am.

[DoomsdayDevice]

As much as I may not be a refuser, I do think the puzzle theory has merit. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened, but I think destroy is more likely to be expanded upon. You know, mysterious breath scene cliffhanger and all.

[BleedingUranium]

401 Kill wrote...

demersel wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I wouldn't say one is more than the other. Destroy you show you want to destroy the Reapers by acting on it.

Refuse you show you want to destroy the Reapers by saying it. "I did everything I could to stop you!"

Not really. 
In Control you want to control all the reapers.
In Synthesis you want to turn everyone into reapers.
In Destroy you want to destroy the reapers.
In Refuse you want to show the reapers that you can die free and on your own terms. 

Refuse can also be seen as "I don't trust you, there is another way to stop the Reapers without playing your game."

There's no place for that in IT though.

Literal Theory: You could pick any of the three options that are actually exactly what they look like, so not picking one is incredibly stupid.

Deception Theory: Everything's real but the kid is trying to trick you. Refuse would be valid, if this theory wasn't more retarded than the literal theory.

Indoctrination Theory: Nothing's real, they're all representative of possible goals Shepard can have. Destroy isn't created by the kid, and thus "refusing to play the kid's game" doesn't apply.

[BleedingUranium]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

As much as I may not be a refuser, I do think the puzzle theory has merit. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened, but I think destroy is more likely to be expanded upon. You know, mysterious breath scene cliffhanger and all.

Right. I'm not arguing Refuse is bad, only that it's not ideal. Destroy is the best case scenario, and Shepard would be best off. With Refuse, Shepard would need help to recover, and the outcome wouldn't be as good, but you could still win.

[masster blaster]

BleedingUranium wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

demersel wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I wouldn't say one is more than the other. Destroy you show you want to destroy the Reapers by acting on it.

Refuse you show you want to destroy the Reapers by saying it. "I did everything I could to stop you!"

Not really. 
In Control you want to control all the reapers.
In Synthesis you want to turn everyone into reapers.
In Destroy you want to destroy the reapers.
In Refuse you want to show the reapers that you can die free and on your own terms. 

Refuse can also be seen as "I don't trust you, there is another way to stop the Reapers without playing your game."

There's no place for that in IT though.

Literal Theory: You could pick any of the three options that are actually exactly what they look like, so not picking one is incredibly stupid.

Deception Theory: Everything's real but the kid is trying to trick you. Refuse would be valid, if this theory wasn't more retarded than the literal theory.

Indoctrination Theory: Nothing's real, they're all representative of possible goals Shepard can have. Destroy isn't created by the kid, and thus "refusing to play the kid's game" doesn't apply.

Thank you. Also it would make The Normandy pick up seen even more stupid, and Shepard being shot by Harbinger very stupid.

[byne]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Deception Theory: Everything's real but the kid is trying to trick you. Refuse would be valid, if this theory wasn't more retarded than the literal theory.

...what?

So Deception theory basically is:

Godchild: Pick synthesis! I swear it will work and nothing bad will happen! *trollface*
*Shepard picks Synthesis*
Godchild: Fooled you!
*Synthesis happens*?

[demersel]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

As much as I may not be a refuser, I do think the puzzle theory has merit. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened, but I think destroy is more likely to be expanded upon. You know, mysterious breath scene cliffhanger and all.

I too like the puzzle theory, the concept of it - DLC adding thins to reveal another ending, not the successful refuse thing. 

I thing the cool way for a puzzle theory to work would be to add a way NOT TO GO TO EARTH WITH THE CRUCIBLE AT ALL - like giving you another option, another thing to do entirely insted of doing priority earth, or even storming the cronos station. 

[masster blaster]

BleedingUranium wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

As much as I may not be a refuser, I do think the puzzle theory has merit. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened, but I think destroy is more likely to be expanded upon. You know, mysterious breath scene cliffhanger and all.

Right. I'm not arguing Refuse is bad, only that it's not ideal. Destroy is the best case scenario, and Shepard would be best off. With Refuse, Shepard would need help to recover, and the outcome wouldn't be as good, but you could still win.

yes I agree, if it was between Synthesis,Control, and Refuse .Refuse would be te best choice, but if Destroy was in it, then Destroy is the best choice.

[masster blaster]

byne wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Deception Theory: Everything's real but the kid is trying to trick you. Refuse would be valid, if this theory wasn't more retarded than the literal theory.

...what?

So Deception theory basically is:

Godchild: Pick synthesis! I swear it will work and nothing bad will happen! *trollface*
*Shepard picks Synthesis*
Godchild: Fooled you!
*Synthesis happens*?

Yep.

[Eryri]

I will admit to having a soft spot for refuse. Perhaps because it's fun to show the middle finger to the Starbastard. It rings a little of the Captain Kirk - "forge your own path" option. It feels like a moral victory.

However, given the overwhelming power of the Reapers compared to the Alliance, it doesn't seem to be a rational decision for a military commander like Shepard to make. He would know that the chances of success would be slim to none.

How would you feel if hypothetical future DLC massively increased the strength of the fleet in a Puzzle Theory scenario? If Shepard has a more powerful fleet at his disposal, then refusal may be a more rational decision maybe? He might appraise his chances with the addition of Aria's fleet, or some stash of hidden Prothean weaponry and think "Yeah, I can take these guys."

EDIT: Sorry I've been kind of ninja'd by the speed of the discussion. 

Modifié par Eryri, 25 novembre 2012 - 02:39 .

[BleedingUranium]

byne wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Deception Theory: Everything's real but the kid is trying to trick you. Refuse would be valid, if this theory wasn't more retarded than the literal theory.

...what?

So Deception theory basically is:

Godchild: Pick synthesis! I swear it will work and nothing bad will happen! *trollface*
*Shepard picks Synthesis*
Godchild: Fooled you!
*Synthesis happens*?

Something like that, I don't remember the details but it has more holes than literal. One of the biggest is that Destroy really will kill all the Reapers and he actually left it there. It's... so dumb!  It's for people that hate the kid and the endings, but also IT.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 25 novembre 2012 - 02:39 .

[demersel]

Lets' put it this way, what do you want to do? Do you want to fight the reapers or do you want to discuss morality and make meaningless but articulate speeches? Because, if second - it is the wrong game for you, this one is about fighting the reapers. (says the refuse cinamatic)

[Jadebaby]

demersel wrote...

@ Jade. Let's make a little experiment.
Post here the text of Refuse speech. Just the text, not the link to a video.

"No, I can't make that choice, I wont. I fight for freedom, mine and everyone's. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. and *IF* I die, I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you, and I'll die free."

Shepard isn't giving up because they can now die free, what a ****ing cop-out that is.

Shepard is saying that they aren't going to sacrifice every single synthetic in the galaxy to defeat the Reapers because they fight for EVERYBODYS freedom. Not just those that are convenient to reach her goal.

[401 Kill]

BleedingUranium wrote...

There's no place for that in IT though.

Literal Theory: You could pick any of the three options that are actually exactly what they look like, so not picking one is incredibly stupid.

Deception Theory: Everything's real but the kid is trying to trick you. Refuse would be valid, if this theory wasn't more retarded than the literal theory.

Indoctrination Theory: Nothing's real, they're all representative of possible goals Shepard can have. Destroy isn't created by the kid, and thus "refusing to play the kid's game" doesn't apply.

It has been months since the EC and Refuse is still the odd one out. It still baffles me.
I am still cautious when dealing with this option.