Modifié par Dwailing, 26 novembre 2012 - 01:24 .
Nice comparison and explanation of why these are bad.Dwailing wrote...
OK, I'm about to state the obvious, but I've come to a conclusion. The endings themselves are fine (Post-EC), it's the CONTEXT that makes them so sucky. For instance, in Deus Ex, there are three ending choices (Which are VERY similar to the ME3 choices). You can Destroy all global communication, creating a new dark age free from the control of ancient conspiracies; you can kill Bob Page and Control the world using the technology in Area 51; or you can create a Synthesis between J.C. Denton and the Helios A.I., resulting a hybrid intelligence that would act as a benevolent dictator of the world. Now, in Deus Ex, all three choices are valid, and fit in the context of the universe. However, in ME3, the context is completely whacked. You're choice is not a solution to the Reaper problem, which has plagued the galaxy for billions of years, but rather a choice to solve the problem of inevitable synthetic/organic conflict, and conflict that comes almost COMPLETELY out of the left field.
And the way the context of the DELIVERY of these choices in the two games are also completely different. In Deus Ex, you're given the choices by people you've come to know (If not completely trust) throughout the game. In Mass Effect 3, you're given the choices by some A.I. thing that you've only had a VERY small amount of foreshadowing of.
some kid spilled soda over the hardware.DoomsdayDevice wrote...
The voices! Make them stop! Why won't they stop!
*ahem*
Shepard: "You have a copy of a Shepard VI?"
Sales Clerk: "Oh yeah, the one based on that war hero? We locked it after some kid spilled soda over the hardware. I'll unlock it, but we've only got the demo version working."
Bioware, you crack me up.
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 26 novembre 2012 - 01:31 .
I agree, what the endings are meant for the player in terms of two big themes in the ME series: morality and indoctrination, and they way it was delivered didn't exactly measure up well. Even if the endings were real, they could have been brilliant if they were executed properly with more context.Dwailing wrote...
OK, I'm about to state the obvious, but I've come to a conclusion. The endings themselves are fine (Post-EC), it's the CONTEXT that makes them so sucky. For instance, in Deus Ex, there are three ending choices (Which are VERY similar to the ME3 choices). You can Destroy all global communication, creating a new dark age free from the control of ancient conspiracies; you can kill Bob Page and Control the world using the technology in Area 51; or you can create a Synthesis between J.C. Denton and the Helios A.I., resulting a hybrid intelligence that would act as a benevolent dictator of the world. Now, in Deus Ex, all three choices are valid, and fit in the context of the universe. However, in ME3, the context is completely whacked. You're choice is not a solution to the Reaper problem, which has plagued the galaxy for billions of years, but rather a choice to solve the problem of inevitable synthetic/organic conflict, and conflict that comes almost COMPLETELY out of the left field.
And the way the context of the DELIVERY of these choices in the two games are also completely different. In Deus Ex, you're given the choices by people you've come to know (If not completely trust) throughout the game. In Mass Effect 3, you're given the choices by some A.I. thing that you've only had a VERY small amount of foreshadowing of.
Guest_SwobyJ_*
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
The voices! Make them stop! Why won't they stop!
*ahem*
Shepard: "You have a copy of a Shepard VI?"
Sales Clerk: "Oh yeah, the one based on that war hero? We locked it after some kid spilled soda over the hardware. I'll unlock it, but we've only got the demo version working."
Bioware, you crack me up.
I think it could still fly without her. EDI herself states that the Normandy was serviceable before her installation.CmdrShep80 wrote...
Which by the way doesn't make sense because shouldn't the ship be unable to continue to fly if the ship was built around the EDI architecture?
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
The copy of the Shepard VI: "There's nothing we can't beat if we all work together. Except the Reapers. Ever seen the size of one of those things?"
The copy of Shepard doesn't believe the Reapers can be beaten. More control = indoctrinated lols.
Remember all those chats we were having about how Paragon seems more doubtful of our chances of victory and is possibly more susceptible to indoctrintation? There you go.
Guest_SwobyJ_*
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
The copy of the Shepard VI: "There's nothing we can't beat if we all work together. Except the Reapers. Ever seen the size of one of those things?"
The copy of Shepard doesn't believe the Reapers can be beaten. More control = indoctrinated lols.
SwobyJ wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
The voices! Make them stop! Why won't they stop!
*ahem*
Shepard: "You have a copy of a Shepard VI?"
Sales Clerk: "Oh yeah, the one based on that war hero? We locked it after some kid spilled soda over the hardware. I'll unlock it, but we've only got the demo version working."
Bioware, you crack me up.
.... HA!
It's interesting how self-aware Bioware might be about causing this 'issue'.
I just am very sure that they didn't expect, say, Take Back Mass Effect
I think they expected complaints and attention brought to the game, but not a (at one point) nearly universal hate for the ending of their trilogy, and loud calls to change it.
Arashi08 wrote...
I still think the potential of using a video game to cause the player to question their own sense of morality while at the same time actually indoctrinating players is brilliant in and of itself, but for it to be satisfying as an ending they needed a different approach, or at least a way to make it seem less out of nowhere.
Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 26 novembre 2012 - 01:36 .
Guest_SwobyJ_*
MWMike2011 wrote...
SwobyJ wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
The voices! Make them stop! Why won't they stop!
*ahem*
Shepard: "You have a copy of a Shepard VI?"
Sales Clerk: "Oh yeah, the one based on that war hero? We locked it after some kid spilled soda over the hardware. I'll unlock it, but we've only got the demo version working."
Bioware, you crack me up.
.... HA!
It's interesting how self-aware Bioware might be about causing this 'issue'.
I just am very sure that they didn't expect, say, Take Back Mass Effect
I think they expected complaints and attention brought to the game, but not a (at one point) nearly universal hate for the ending of their trilogy, and loud calls to change it.
I agree. It may very well be that they had this planned from the beginning, but the backlash was so astounding they were taken aback and forced to do EC as a sort of repentence, even if it wasn't necessary.
Dwailing wrote...
OK, I'm about to state the obvious, but I've come to a conclusion. The endings themselves are fine (Post-EC), it's the CONTEXT that makes them so sucky. For instance, in Deus Ex, there are three ending choices (Which are VERY similar to the ME3 choices). You can Destroy all global communication, creating a new dark age free from the control of ancient conspiracies; you can kill Bob Page and Control the world using the technology in Area 51; or you can create a Synthesis between J.C. Denton and the Helios A.I., resulting a hybrid intelligence that would act as a benevolent dictator of the world. Now, in Deus Ex, all three choices are valid, and fit in the context of the universe. However, in ME3, the context is completely whacked. You're choice is not a solution to the Reaper problem, which has plagued the galaxy for billions of years, but rather a choice to solve the problem of inevitable synthetic/organic conflict, and conflict that comes almost COMPLETELY out of the left field.
And the way the context of the DELIVERY of these choices in the two games are also completely different. In Deus Ex, you're given the choices by people you've come to know (If not completely trust) throughout the game. In Mass Effect 3, you're given the choices by some A.I. thing that you've only had a VERY small amount of foreshadowing of.
Guest_SwobyJ_*
MaximizedAction wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
OK, I'm about to state the obvious, but I've come to a conclusion. The endings themselves are fine (Post-EC), it's the CONTEXT that makes them so sucky. For instance, in Deus Ex, there are three ending choices (Which are VERY similar to the ME3 choices). You can Destroy all global communication, creating a new dark age free from the control of ancient conspiracies; you can kill Bob Page and Control the world using the technology in Area 51; or you can create a Synthesis between J.C. Denton and the Helios A.I., resulting a hybrid intelligence that would act as a benevolent dictator of the world. Now, in Deus Ex, all three choices are valid, and fit in the context of the universe. However, in ME3, the context is completely whacked. You're choice is not a solution to the Reaper problem, which has plagued the galaxy for billions of years, but rather a choice to solve the problem of inevitable synthetic/organic conflict, and conflict that comes almost COMPLETELY out of the left field.
And the way the context of the DELIVERY of these choices in the two games are also completely different. In Deus Ex, you're given the choices by people you've come to know (If not completely trust) throughout the game. In Mass Effect 3, you're given the choices by some A.I. thing that you've only had a VERY small amount of foreshadowing of.
Good idea.
That thing about the Organics/Synthetics conflict coming rather out of nowhere considerin the current situation the galaxy's in (assuming IT):
I imagine how it might be for Shepard waking up and someone, maybe the squad, finds him and wonders what happened and Shepard says: "Did I end the conflict between organics and synthetics?" And everyone just looks confused and someone asks "What conflict? What are you talking about? What about the Reapers?"
And I feel instantly reminded of myself when I used to wake up from the middle of an intensive dream where I was doing something, and my mom woke me up and I asked her some detail from the dream, having not completely woken up yet...feels always embarrassing realizing it was just a dream.
I imagine how Shepard might feel about it.
Because in retrospect that's exactly what this whole thing about a conflict felt like when I read about the possibility of it not being real..."Of course, where the hell did that come from?"
SwobyJ wrote...
MWMike2011 wrote...
SwobyJ wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
The voices! Make them stop! Why won't they stop!
*ahem*
Shepard: "You have a copy of a Shepard VI?"
Sales Clerk: "Oh yeah, the one based on that war hero? We locked it after some kid spilled soda over the hardware. I'll unlock it, but we've only got the demo version working."
Bioware, you crack me up.
.... HA!
It's interesting how self-aware Bioware might be about causing this 'issue'.
I just am very sure that they didn't expect, say, Take Back Mass Effect
I think they expected complaints and attention brought to the game, but not a (at one point) nearly universal hate for the ending of their trilogy, and loud calls to change it.
I agree. It may very well be that they had this planned from the beginning, but the backlash was so astounding they were taken aback and forced to do EC as a sort of repentence, even if it wasn't necessary.
Oh it was necessary. It quieted down the Mass Effect hate (even if not the Bioware hate) quite a bit.
Casey and Mac were right. Most, MOST complainers just wanted closure, at least for now.
The nitpickers and theorists (aka us plus the random BSN ranters) are a minority. They very likely know we exist, but the EC was mostly not created for us, imo. (except for Refuse ending and a few interesting details... like Leviathan scientist, 'jolt awake' on 'Citadel', Harbinger watching us, etc)
Arashi08 wrote...
I think it could still fly without her. EDI herself states that the Normandy was serviceable before her installation.CmdrShep80 wrote...
Which by the way doesn't make sense because shouldn't the ship be unable to continue to fly if the ship was built around the EDI architecture?
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
The copy of the Shepard VI: "There's nothing we can't beat if we all work together. Except the Reapers. Ever seen the size of one of those things?"
The copy of Shepard doesn't believe the Reapers can be beaten. More control = indoctrinated lols.
Modifié par CmdrShep80, 26 novembre 2012 - 01:46 .
Heretic_Hanar wrote...
For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.
Heretic_Hanar wrote...
For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.
Heretic_Hanar wrote...
For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.
Yes.byne wrote...
Heretic_Hanar wrote...
For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.
Organics vs Synthetics has been around forever, yes, but the idea that synthetics will inevitably destroy all organics no matter what kind of came out of nowhere.
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