80611 réponses à ce sujet

[MWMike2011]

byne wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.

Organics vs Synthetics has been around forever, yes, but the idea that synthetics will inevitably destroy all organics no matter what kind of came out of nowhere.

I agree, the inevitability of it all and that there was "nothing" that could be done about it kinda came out of nowhere. Unless it was in the codex stuff and books and whatnot. I didn't read any of that.

[Arashi08]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Which by the way doesn't make sense because shouldn't the ship be unable to continue to fly if the ship was built around the EDI architecture?

I think it could still fly without her.  EDI herself states that the Normandy was serviceable before her installation.

youre right but EDI didn't exclusively dl herself to the Normandy and the physical body. She would have left a backup somewhere

Possibly, but what would have stopped the Red Wave of Synthetic Destruction from destroying the backup as well?  Unless she shot a pod outside of the galaxy or maybe kept her memories around as simple code, but I would have assumed that the destroy wave would target everything synthetic, not just self aware AIs and functional VIs.

[CmdrShep80]

Not really, the whole synthetics will destroy everything has been around. It's the reason for restrictions of the AI hardware and why people must use VIs instead. It's also part of the Geth-Quarian conflict. All of the info's there, it's just suble hints in the beginning

[CmdrShep80]

@Arashi- you just stated the contradiction. If that happened, then the Normandy should not fly because the Normandy has synthetic components but isnt staffed like it was in ME1. For ME1 every station was occupied. By ME3 most of the stations are empty thanks to EDI's influence. No VI programs should function either since they are a form of synthetic machines, which tends to be built into systems such as auto targeting.

[BansheeOwnage]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Not really, the whole synthetics will destroy everything has been around. It's the reason for restrictions of the AI hardware and why people must use VIs instead. It's also part of the Geth-Quarian conflict. All of the info's there, it's just suble hints in the beginning

The concept is disprived over and over...

[The Heretic of Time]

byne wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.

Organics vs Synthetics has been around forever, yes, but the idea that synthetics will inevitably destroy all organics no matter what kind of came out of nowhere.

Yes and no. Sure, it came out of nowhere, and sure, it got introduced much too late in the series, however, that doesn't mean it couldn't be true.

The thing is, the Catalyst was programmed based on the assumption from the Leviathans that organics and synthetics will always end up in conflict. The arrogance of the Leviathans gave birth to the Catalyst. It's all their fault. They believed that the organics and synthetics will inevitably end in conflict.


Thing is, we'll never know if the Leviathans (and in extent the Catalyst) were right or not. It will always be a mystery.
Just like in the anime series Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann; the Spiral Nemesis theory, a theory about the end of the universe caused by Spirals (organics), which caused the Anti-Spirals to go on a campaign to commit genocide on all the Spirals in the universe. In the end the Anti-Spirals are defeated and we learn about the Spiral Nemesis theory. However, we never learn whether the Spiral Nemesis theory is true and correct, or if it's just a bad excuse from the Anti-Spirals to justify their war. We'll never know.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 26 novembre 2012 - 01:57 .

[The Heretic of Time]

SwobyJ wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.

Every single conflict between organics and synthetics happened because of a Reaper managed technological cycle, even the Quarians (as they are part of this cycle).

Oh really? And how so? How was, for example, the rogue VI on Luna base caused by the Reapers? How was the rogue AI on the Citadel caused by the reapers? What about the rogue VI in ME2 (in a side-mission, forgot which one)? What about the rogue VI in Project Overlord? Was that caused by the reapers too? I don't think so pall. And the Morning War? The geth uprising against the quarians? That wasn't caused by reapers either. 


You can easily blame it all on the reapers, but you'd be wrong. The reapers are most certainly not the blame for each and every single conflict between organics and synthetics, only just a few.

[The Heretic of Time]

MWMike2011 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.

What do you mean? It was VERY heavy in ME1... Geth kill all organics, refuse to negotiate.

Indeed. That's exactly what I'm saying.

[BansheeOwnage]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MWMike2011 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.

What do you mean? It was VERY heavy in ME1... Geth kill all organics, refuse to negotiate.

Indeed. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Until it was disproved in ME2, which was their plan all along.

[Arashi08]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

@Arashi- you just stated the contradiction. If that happened, then the Normandy should not fly because the Normandy has synthetic components but isnt staffed like it was in ME1. For ME1 every station was occupied. By ME3 most of the stations are empty thanks to EDI's influence. No VI programs should function either since they are a form of synthetic machines, which tends to be built into systems such as auto targeting.

But that is an assumption, since we don't know for sure what stations wouldn't be covered if EDI wasn't present in the Normandy in ME3.  Clearly not all technology is affected (yet somehow all AIs and VIs are destroyed) and the Normandy could technically run with a skeleton crew rather than a full one.  The Alliance, with the exception of a few individuals outside of the Normandy, probably believed EDI to be a VI so they likely staffed the Normandy with a full crew, or at least they would have if the Reapers hadn't invaded so really we have no real way to know if the Normandy has enough people to fly the ship without EDI since I don't think it is ever made clear how many crewman are needed to simply pilot the Normandy.

the whole thing does seem rather vague at best.

[CmdrShep80]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Not really, the whole synthetics will destroy everything has been around. It's the reason for restrictions of the AI hardware and why people must use VIs instead. It's also part of the Geth-Quarian conflict. All of the info's there, it's just suble hints in the beginning

The concept is disprived over and over...

From the Geth codex in ME1:

When the geth showed signs of self-evolution, the quarians attempted to exterminate them. The geth won the resulting war. This example has led to legal, systematic repression of artificial intelligences in galactic society

[Dwailing]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.

Every single conflict between organics and synthetics happened because of a Reaper managed technological cycle, even the Quarians (as they are part of this cycle).

Oh really? And how so? How was, for example, the rogue VI on Luna base caused by the Reapers? How was the rogue AI on the Citadel caused by the reapers? What about the rogue VI in ME2 (in a side-mission, forgot which one)? What about the rogue VI in Project Overlord? Was that caused by the reapers too? I don't think so pall. And the Morning War? The geth uprising against the quarians? That wasn't caused by reapers either. 


You can easily blame it all on the reapers, but you'd be wrong. The reapers are most certainly not the blame for each and every single conflict between organics and synthetics, only just a few.

Luna AI: Created by Cerberus which was created by TIM in response to the Reapers (Read ME:Evolution).

Citadel AI: I'll give you that one.

Overlord VI: Created by organics out of fear of synthetics (The geth).

The Morning War: Started by organics out of, oh look, fear of synthetics.

It seems that most of these problems come either from the Reapers or xenophobic organics.  And that's always been a theme.  The problem of xenophobia.

[The Heretic of Time]

SwobyJ wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MWMike2011 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.

What do you mean? It was VERY heavy in ME1... Geth kill all organics, refuse to negotiate.

Indeed. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Because they worshipped the Reapers.

And this isn't some ME2 newer stuff. They worshipped the Reapers on Feros.

There's an element of choice to all of it, yes, but the geth's actions in ME1 were not made just for their own sake.

The geth have been hostile to organics for CENTURIES. But they didn't start worshipping Sovereign until Saren found Sovereign in Mass Effect: Revelation (prequel novel to ME1).

So no, you can't blame that one on the reapers pall.

The Reapers push the conflict themselves - through organic evolutionary lines, through galactic technological lines, and through psychological moral lines.

But I guess we'll see how right or wrong I am on that.

No, I don't think we'll ever see how right or wrong any of us is on this. I think it will always be a mystery whether the "eternal conflict between organics and synthetics" -problem is a real problem or just a wild theory from the Leviathans (and in extent from the Catalyst).

[The Heretic of Time]

Dwailing wrote...

Luna AI: Created by Cerberus which was created by TIM in response to the Reapers (Read ME:Evolution).

False. The Luna VI was a military VI from the Alliance, it was not created by Cerberus. Only EDI is created by Cerberus, with samples from the Luna VI and from Sovereign.

Overlord VI: Created by organics out of fear of synthetics (The geth).

The Morning War: Started by organics out of, oh look, fear of synthetics.

And why do you think organics fear synthetics? Most certainly not because of the reapers. They werent around to tell the organics that they should fear synthetics.

It seems that most of these problems come either from the Reapers or xenophobic organics.  And that's always been a theme.  The problem of xenophobia.

The fear of your computer, which is your TOOL, all of the sudden turning self-aware is a completely different kind of fear than xenophobia. You can't really compare the fear for synthetics to xenophobia, not at all.

[The Heretic of Time]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MWMike2011 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

For people who claim to know so much about foreshadowing in Mass Effect you sure as hell are oblivious to all the foreshadowing for the organics v.s synthetics conflict in Mass Effect. Seriously, I'm not saying that the reapers motives don't suck, but you can't day the whole "organics v.s synthetics" theme came out of nowhere. There is plenty of background lore and foreshadowing for that in both ME1 and ME2 and of course ME3 itself too.

What do you mean? It was VERY heavy in ME1... Geth kill all organics, refuse to negotiate.

Indeed. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Until it was disproved in ME2, which was their plan all along.

No it wasn't disproved in ME2. Legion fully admitted that they shot every organic on sight, because of "probablity of organics shooting geth on sight is 100% blablabla yadayadayada".

[Bill Casey]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

No, I don't think we'll ever see how right or wrong any of us is on this. I think it will always be a mystery whether the "eternal conflict between organics and synthetics" -problem is a real problem or just a wild theory from the Leviathans (and in extent from the Catalyst).

No, it's not a "mystery"...
It's racist bull****...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 novembre 2012 - 02:26 .

[Dwailing]

Huh, I think I just figured out why Brat prefers Synthesis (real or not). He says he was created to solve the problem of organic/synthetic conflict, right? Well, what better way to stop this than by eliminating both from the equation permanently? I mean, that would explain both Synthesis and the Reapers. The Reapers are supposedly more than just machines. They're supposedly hybrid constructs that are both yet neither. Well, that's whay Synthesis is, isn't it? A way to permanently remove synthetics and organics fron the equation. They'd be both yet neither in Synthesis, considering what Brat says about creating a new DNA. And this way, he wouldn't have to worry about synthetic/organic conflict, because even if there was conflict, it wouldn't be between organics and synthetics anymore since they no longer exist. It doesn't matter if there's really peace (hence his evasive answer when you ask if there will be peace), his job is done.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Reposting for pure awesomeness:

Batarian Preacher: "Maintain, my brothers and sisters, we have faced adversity and overcome, this is but a test! Remember the pillars of strength that hold the people hig, show the galaxy our resolve. I know that your faith is weak, our government has fallen, but if you hold the pillars of strength in your hearts, please... just don't give up."

[Home run MF]

Dwailing wrote...

Luna AI: Created by Cerberus which was created by TIM in response to the Reapers (Read ME:Evolution).

Citadel AI: I'll give you that one.

Overlord VI: Created by organics out of fear of synthetics (The geth).

The Morning War: Started by organics out of, oh look, fear of synthetics.

It seems that most of these problems come either from the Reapers or xenophobic organics.  And that's always been a theme.  The problem of xenophobia.

Bingo.
Ending of Revelation Saren discovers Sovereign and pretends to use it to get revenge on humans and put Turians on top.
Evolution TIM enters in contact with Reaper tech and pretends to use the Reapers to put humanity on top.
Leviathans see themselves as the apex race with a galaxy that bends to their will.
Protheans and their empire that assimilates and manipulates other species.