80611 réponses à ce sujet

[TSA_383]

Restrider wrote...

1a) The game begins with the child and an illusion of a ship landing on grass that is observed (only) by Shepard as it seems.
1b) The game ends with the child and a ship crashlanding on a garden world and the child is only seen by Shepard.

That's... excellent.

The game starts with the illusion of the child and the ship, and it ends with the illusion of the child and the ship.
I like it.

[paxxton]

TSA_383 wrote...

Restrider wrote...

1a) The game begins with the child and an illusion of a ship landing on grass that is observed (only) by Shepard as it seems.
1b) The game ends with the child and a ship crashlanding on a garden world and the child is only seen by Shepard.

That's... excellent.

The game starts with the illusion of the child and the ship, and it ends with the illusion of the child and the ship.
I like it.

I wonder why haven't we considered that earlier. It seems so obvious now.

[Restrider]

byne wrote...
I'm only mild too. I dont do any of that obsessive cleaning stuff, I just need everything to be in the exact right place. I've mentioned before that I didnt use my brand new 50" HD TV for months because it was mounted on the wall and one side was 1/16th of an inch lower than the other side. I eventually just took it off the wall and put it on a stand.

Now I cant get the angle right though.

You call that a disorder:huh:?
Sh!t, so I have it too then... meh. I really do not like the whole pathologizing that is happening lately. For every minor tick someone might have it's a mental disorder  

[RavenEyry]

I have minor aspergers and am also a fan of putting everything in the right place. Wonky pictures and plugs left on with nothing plugged in enrage me.

[BleedingUranium]

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...
I'm only mild too. I dont do any of that obsessive cleaning stuff, I just need everything to be in the exact right place. I've mentioned before that I didnt use my brand new 50" HD TV for months because it was mounted on the wall and one side was 1/16th of an inch lower than the other side. I eventually just took it off the wall and put it on a stand.

Now I cant get the angle right though.

You call that a disorder:huh:?
Sh!t, so I have it too then... meh. I really do not like the whole pathologizing that is happening lately. For every minor tick someone might have it's a mental disorder  

Agreed. By modern standards, I'd bet every single person has some "disorder" or other.

[TSA_383]

In the beginning, we see the reaper child in the garden, with the fake normandy, this is all part of an illusion created by the reapers in our interpretation. This has a certain impact on the ending, given that the post-ending thing sees the normandy on a planet surrounded by that same foliage from the illusion. Here, the normandy will either escape the world of the illusion, signifying Shepard's own escape from the illusion, or it will be trapped, signifying that Shepard does not have the strength to overcome the illusion.

Thoughts?

[The Heretic of Time]

TSA_383 wrote...

In the beginning, we see the reaper child in the garden, with the fake normandy, this is all part of an illusion created by the reapers in our interpretation. This has a certain impact on the ending, given that the post-ending thing sees the normandy on a planet surrounded by that same foliage from the illusion. Here, the normandy will either escape the world of the illusion, signifying Shepard's own escape from the illusion, or it will be trapped, signifying that Shepard does not have the strength to overcome the illusion.

Thoughts?

If your theory would be correct than Shepard can escape the illusion regardless of which ending he chooses. Only a low EMS  results in a stranded Normandy that doesn't fly away at the end of the epilogue.

[BleedingUranium]

TSA_383 wrote...

In the beginning, we see the reaper child in the garden, with the fake normandy, this is all part of an illusion created by the reapers in our interpretation. This has a certain impact on the ending, given that the post-ending thing sees the normandy on a planet surrounded by that same foliage from the illusion. Here, the normandy will either escape the world of the illusion, signifying Shepard's own escape from the illusion, or it will be trapped, signifying that Shepard does not have the strength to overcome the illusion.

Thoughts?

So maybe:

-No one exits the Normady = Shepard dies
-Normandy needs repairs = Shepard not dead, but will need help to escape the dream world
-Normandy flys away = Shepard escapes the dream world on his own
-Breath scene = Shepard is still Shepard

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 28 novembre 2012 - 10:55 .

[RavenEyry]

TSA_383 wrote...

In the beginning, we see the reaper child in the garden, with the fake normandy, this is all part of an illusion created by the reapers in our interpretation. This has a certain impact on the ending, given that the post-ending thing sees the normandy on a planet surrounded by that same foliage from the illusion. Here, the normandy will either escape the world of the illusion, signifying Shepard's own escape from the illusion, or it will be trapped, signifying that Shepard does not have the strength to overcome the illusion.

Thoughts?

Seems odd that the same vision (or virtually the same) would be both good and bad depending on your choice.

Though saying that the visions in destroy in general are a little awkward to fit in the theory.

[The Heretic of Time]

Face it, after the EC the indoctrination theory doesn't hold much water anymore. It was a good theory for as long as it lasted, but the epilogues added with the EC bring a lot of questions to the table.

You guys say the epilogues are "illusions" or "a dream", but then what is the epilogue if you choose destroy? Also an illusion? Why would Shepard see an illusion if he just broke free of the indoctrination?

Or are you now claiming that all epilogues are illusions except for the Destroy epilogue? But isn't that measuring with double standards? By saying that, aren't you just trying to fit what you see into your theory, instead of trying to adjust your theory to what you actually see? That doesn't really add up though does it?

[Restrider]

RavenEyry wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

In the beginning, we see the reaper child in the garden, with the fake normandy, this is all part of an illusion created by the reapers in our interpretation. This has a certain impact on the ending, given that the post-ending thing sees the normandy on a planet surrounded by that same foliage from the illusion. Here, the normandy will either escape the world of the illusion, signifying Shepard's own escape from the illusion, or it will be trapped, signifying that Shepard does not have the strength to overcome the illusion.

Thoughts?

Seems odd that the same vision (or virtually the same) would be both good and bad depending on your choice.

Though saying that the visions in destroy in general are a little awkward to fit in the theory.

You can also add the trailer for ME3 with that little girl. You have the same type of illusion there.

And to the bolded part:
As Blur stated, this might indicate that Shepard wakes up, but not unchanged (this would only apply to Breath Scene, maybe), thus you have a Shepard with the Reapers having a foothold in his mind (=indoctrination).
Just mere speculation of course and the Refuse ending is still the wild card here.
And my assertions about the parallels are actually regarding the original endings since EC kind of stirred everything.

[RavenEyry]

I think they're all illusions.

And anyway, if Bioware wanted to destroy IT with EC as many say then why not 'fix' many of the major 'oversights' and why add stuff like the fight on Earth going differently depending on the choice?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Destroy epilogue can still be counted as an illusion, possible, but only because the very important Breath Scene plays out AFTER the epilogue slides, putting a damper on the timeline in which they slides are displayed.
Breath Scene still only plays under specific set of circumstance. Destroy, high EMS, full reputation (possible without if you save Anderson to maintain EMS), imported or NG+ Shepard.
If played during any other ending, would further solidify Theories, as is keeps gamers guessing, speculating.

As has been said, possible the Star Child scene not an illusion/part of the illusion. Reasons; plays after credits, after all slides in EC, after breath scene, speaks of "The Shepard's story" happening in the distant past. Speaks of "One More Story" to add.

Can only guess Bioware's single player DLC plot and number now. Omega was only solid guess. If Citadel then what about? Keeper orgiins? Reaper infiltration? Complete unknown, can only guess.

[RavenEyry]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Destroy epilogue can still be counted as an illusion, possible, but only because the very important Breath Scene plays out AFTER the epilogue slides, putting a damper on the timeline in which they slides are displayed.

I noticed that the first time I saw EC. I was thinking "They rebuilt a lot of the damage from the war and everyone went their seperate ways while Shep just lay there in the rubble? Survivor rescue teams must have really been slacking."

Course stargazer still appears afterwards and remains a wild card in any speculation.

Modifié par RavenEyry, 28 novembre 2012 - 11:29 .

[BleedingUranium]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Face it, after the EC the indoctrination theory doesn't hold much water anymore. It was a good theory for as long as it lasted, but the epilogues added with the EC bring a lot of questions to the table.

You guys say the epilogues are "illusions" or "a dream", but then what is the epilogue if you choose destroy? Also an illusion? Why would Shepard see an illusion if he just broke free of the indoctrination?

Or are you now claiming that all epilogues are illusions except for the Destroy epilogue? But isn't that measuring with double standards? By saying that, aren't you just trying to fit what you see into your theory, instead of trying to adjust your theory to what you actually see? That doesn't really add up though does it?

...breath scene.

[paxxton]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Face it, after the EC the indoctrination theory doesn't hold much water anymore. It was a good theory for as long as it lasted, but the epilogues added with the EC bring a lot of questions to the table.

You guys say the epilogues are "illusions" or "a dream", but then what is the epilogue if you choose destroy? Also an illusion? Why would Shepard see an illusion if he just broke free of the indoctrination?

Or are you now claiming that all epilogues are illusions except for the Destroy epilogue? But isn't that measuring with double standards? By saying that, aren't you just trying to fit what you see into your theory, instead of trying to adjust your theory to what you actually see? That doesn't really add up though does it?

Can't you see the difference? The so-called "illusions" are all brightly colored, with a positive message. The Breath Scene seems sinister, the sounds are unsettling.

[Restrider]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Face it, after the EC the indoctrination theory doesn't hold much water anymore. It was a good theory for as long as it lasted, but the epilogues added with the EC bring a lot of questions to the table.

You guys say the epilogues are "illusions" or "a dream", but then what is the epilogue if you choose destroy? Also an illusion? Why would Shepard see an illusion if he just broke free of the indoctrination?

Or are you now claiming that all epilogues are illusions except for the Destroy epilogue? But isn't that measuring with double standards? By saying that, aren't you just trying to fit what you see into your theory, instead of trying to adjust your theory to what you actually see? That doesn't really add up though does it?

I'll try to explain it:
All slide shows have one thing in common. They are a message of hope and Shepard is trying to justifiy his/her decision by imagining how things will pan out in the future. This is also supported by the fact that the epilogues are about things that are supposedly happening in the future and not about thinks that have happened (of course in a literal sense, it would be a bit weird for an epilogue to describe past things).
So, we assume that all slide shows are an illusion in Shepards head to justify his/her decision and are a message of hope (this even applies to the Refuse ending... the hope for future civilizations to end the Reaper cycle, though difference in the stargazer scene is peculiar and renders the Refuse ending as a wild card).
Furthermore the Breath Scene plays after the slide shows. Of course in movies/games there a scenes that are not chronologically played out etc., but thus the slide shows do not collide with IT, in my view.

[RavenEyry]

And it didn't require changing the theory at all, since the normandy scene appeared in all three before EC. Now there's just a powerpoint explaining a couple of things.

[MegumiAzusa]

401 Kill wrote...

Maybe Omega didn't have didn't have the "Cerberus motives" reveal,

Complete bs. There are at least 3 strong motives named why they took Omega.

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

Maybe Omega didn't have didn't have the "Cerberus motives" reveal,

Complete bs. There are at least 3 strong motives named why they took Omega.

Just eezo, and the only reason it's interesting is because they seemed very intent of getting the eezo as fast as possible, ruining the long term use of the mine in the process.

[RavenEyry]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Just eezo, and the only reason it's interesting is because they seemed very intent of getting the eezo as fast as possible, ruining the long term use of the mine in the process.

Probably cos there's a war on.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

BleedingUranium wrote...

...breath scene.

Exactly my thoughts, but shortened! If they had put that Breathe Scene before the slides even rolled then maybe EC would've disproved a heavy amount of IT. As it is, they put it after the slides and before the credits for a reason . . . Hm, possible that reason was to keep the IT crowd happy regardless of Indoctrination viability in future releases.... Same with other, seemingly neglected, bugs/discrepencies still in the ending sequence (eg the nightmare tress moving from either sides of the Beam to almost directly behind Shepard after Harbinger's attack.)

[gunslinger_ruiz]

RavenEyry wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Just eezo, and the only reason it's interesting is because they seemed very intent of getting the eezo as fast as possible, ruining the long term use of the mine in the process.

Probably cos there's a war on.

A war with Reapers mind you, might not be anything left of Cerberus to use Eezo in a month for all they knew.

[MegumiAzusa]

Andromidius wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Which is exactly what Destroy is. By George I think you've cracked it! WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN

Possibly.

Cerberus' attempts at Control proved to be in vain.

The Adjutant's infecting others against their will and homogenising them is eerily similar to Synthesis.

No, it showed that they can control the 3rd generation Adjutants and they infected no one. It's even commented on.

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

Maybe Omega didn't have didn't have the "Cerberus motives" reveal,

Complete bs. There are at least 3 strong motives named why they took Omega.

Just eezo, and the only reason it's interesting is because they seemed very intent of getting the eezo as fast as possible, ruining the long term use of the mine in the process.

Eezo,
test subjects,
a staging ground for their operations in the Terminus Systems, which is basically repeated over and over that with taking Omega Cerberus basically controls the Terminus Systems now.