80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

Thanks guys!

Also, yeah that could make sense too Dave. Feel free to add to it if you think of anything, everyone. It's a very barebones idea right now.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 28 novembre 2012 - 12:52 .

[DaveTheRave05]

In a way, it's as if Cerberus are becoming the new Collectors for the next cycle. I don't recall the exact quote, but didn't Javik and the Prothean VI confirm that a similar Prothean splinter, like Cerberus, believed in controlling the Reapers, and later were found to be indocintrinated? They would later become The Collectors, surely? History repeating itself.

[MegumiAzusa]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Destroy epilogue can still be counted as an illusion, possible, but only because the very important Breath Scene plays out AFTER the epilogue slides, putting a damper on the timeline in which they slides are displayed.
Breath Scene still only plays under specific set of circumstance. Destroy, high EMS, full reputation (possible without if you save Anderson to maintain EMS), imported or NG+ Shepard.
If played during any other ending, would further solidify Theories, as is keeps gamers guessing, speculating.

As has been said, possible the Star Child scene not an illusion/part of the illusion. Reasons; plays after credits, after all slides in EC, after breath scene, speaks of "The Shepard's story" happening in the distant past. Speaks of "One More Story" to add.

Can only guess Bioware's single player DLC plot and number now. Omega was only solid guess. If Citadel then what about? Keeper orgiins? Reaper infiltration? Complete unknown, can only guess.

Too bad in low EMS Shepard dies and THEN the slides play.

[RavenEyry]

DaveTheRave05 wrote...
Another thought on top of yours, if I may. The Illusive Man believed vehemently that he could control the Reapers, but he's been indoctrinated for years. Taking that into account, it's possible that The Reapers are convincing TIM that HE'S the conciousness for the Human Reaper, that his mind is the best of all. Hence, TIM is set on gathering resources to create a human Reaper, transplant his mind inside and then use the Crucible to control ALL Reapers in turn.

As well as causing infighting among their enemies, it also means the reapers don't have to do all the work on building the new one. Just take all the pulp cereberus has gathered when the time comes.

[Rifneno]

Another theory: there's something buried in Omega. They were straining the drills trying to get as deep as they could as fast as they could. But the eezo might not be the goal, simply a happy byproduct. We know the Reapers implied that they built Omega. We know the Reapers like to hide artifacts on asteroids (see Object Rho). We know that people indoctrinated by the Arca Monolith started furiously digging up another buried Reaper artifact out of nowhere. We know that TIM was partially indoctrinated by the Arca Monolith. Perhaps TIM is trying to dig up a Reaper artifact down there. It wouldn't be the stupidest thing he's done.

[Restrider]

The question is:
If Cerberus is building a Reaper, is it to create something to ensure human dominance and fight the Reapers and others that might threaten humanity?
-> I guess that might've been the first motivation and it is still in accordance to what happened at the end of ME2

Did the project's reasons change throughout ME3 so that Cerberus creating a Reaper is in fact a plan of the Reapers to reproduce (similar to the proto-Reaper in ME2 created by the Collectors)?
-> If Cerberus' goal was to create a human Reaper from the get-go and it was all planned by the Reapers (with TIM as their puppet) it would render ME2 pointless. If the reasons changed over the course of the trilogy (from human dominance through a Reaper to Reapers using Cerberus as puppet), this is not the case.

Thus there are three possibilites:

1. Since before ME2, Cerberus has been a puppet of the Reapers -> ME2 would not make sense, if Cerberus tried to build a human Reaper since they could've cooperated with the Collectors to do exactly their goal.

2. TIM's and Cerberus' goals change from human dominance through a human Reaper (to also fight the Reapers) to create a human Reaper due to Reapers gaining control/influence over TIM/Cerberus.

3. TIM's and Cerberus' goal is still to ensure human dominance through the creation of a human Reaper (also to fight/gain control of the other Reapers).

I think 2 is most likely, maybe even 3.
Again, for those more nitpicky here, this is just speculation.

Modifié par Restrider, 28 novembre 2012 - 01:05 .

[RavenEyry]

Rifneno wrote...

Another theory: there's something buried in Omega. They were straining the drills trying to get as deep as they could as fast as they could. But the eezo might not be the goal, simply a happy byproduct. We know the Reapers implied that they built Omega. We know the Reapers like to hide artifacts on asteroids (see Object Rho). We know that people indoctrinated by the Arca Monolith started furiously digging up another buried Reaper artifact out of nowhere. We know that TIM was partially indoctrinated by the Arca Monolith. Perhaps TIM is trying to dig up a Reaper artifact down there. It wouldn't be the stupidest thing he's done.

Completely ungrounded guess: the REAL AI leviathan mentions is buried there.

[MegumiAzusa]

Rifneno wrote...

We know that TIM was partially indoctrinated by the Arca Monolith.

No. You cannot know.

[DaveTheRave05]

Rifneno wrote...

Another theory: there's something buried in Omega. They were straining the drills trying to get as deep as they could as fast as they could. But the eezo might not be the goal, simply a happy byproduct. We know the Reapers implied that they built Omega.

I missed this point o.O Where's it mentioned in the games?

Either way, I agree, they were digging Omega for a reason, and it was never fully explained why. Though the above theory does give a lot of weight behind Cerberus' motives.

[Rifneno]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Destroy epilogue can still be counted as an illusion, possible, but only because the very important Breath Scene plays out AFTER the epilogue slides, putting a damper on the timeline in which they slides are displayed.
Breath Scene still only plays under specific set of circumstance. Destroy, high EMS, full reputation (possible without if you save Anderson to maintain EMS), imported or NG+ Shepard.
If played during any other ending, would further solidify Theories, as is keeps gamers guessing, speculating.

As has been said, possible the Star Child scene not an illusion/part of the illusion. Reasons; plays after credits, after all slides in EC, after breath scene, speaks of "The Shepard's story" happening in the distant past. Speaks of "One More Story" to add.

Can only guess Bioware's single player DLC plot and number now. Omega was only solid guess. If Citadel then what about? Keeper orgiins? Reaper infiltration? Complete unknown, can only guess.

Too bad in low EMS Shepard dies and THEN the slides play.

Glad you were here to let us know that.  Without you and your absolute certainty that no one else is allowed to have, I'd just assume that the possessed brute saving a vulnerable Shepard on Leviathan was a hint that the reason low EMS Shepard doesn't wake up is because Reaper forces got to him and finished him off before he could wake up.  So that, you know, there's still a time lag wherein he could be dreaming that crap epilogue and then get killed anyway.  But thankfully you were here to tell us he died as soon as he got killed in the hallucination.  Good that you cleared that up for us.

[Restrider]

Rifneno wrote...

Another theory: there's something buried in Omega. They were straining the drills trying to get as deep as they could as fast as they could. But the eezo might not be the goal, simply a happy byproduct. We know the Reapers implied that they built Omega. We know the Reapers like to hide artifacts on asteroids (see Object Rho). We know that people indoctrinated by the Arca Monolith started furiously digging up another buried Reaper artifact out of nowhere. We know that TIM was partially indoctrinated by the Arca Monolith. Perhaps TIM is trying to dig up a Reaper artifact down there. It wouldn't be the stupidest thing he's done.

It is a possibility. Remains to be revealed, though. As most of the stuff we have discussed in nearly 7000 pages, heh.

Modifié par Restrider, 28 novembre 2012 - 01:08 .

[Rifneno]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

We know that TIM was partially indoctrinated by the Arca Monolith.

No. You cannot know.

Yeah, I'm sure the reason he started hearing voices, getting compelled to go to places, could speak languages he never knew, ect. is because of a bad cheese sandwich.

Goddamn literalists.

[Rifneno]

DaveTheRave05 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Another theory: there's something buried in Omega. They were straining the drills trying to get as deep as they could as fast as they could. But the eezo might not be the goal, simply a happy byproduct. We know the Reapers implied that they built Omega.

I missed this point o.O Where's it mentioned in the games?

Either way, I agree, they were digging Omega for a reason, and it was never fully explained why. Though the above theory does give a lot of weight behind Cerberus' motives.

Not in the game.  In the books.  Retribution to be exact.  The Reapers are looking around Omega through Paul Grayson's eyes and refer to it as "the works of our kind".

[RavenEyry]

DaveTheRave05 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Another theory: there's something buried in Omega. They were straining the drills trying to get as deep as they could as fast as they could. But the eezo might not be the goal, simply a happy byproduct. We know the Reapers implied that they built Omega.

I missed this point o.O Where's it mentioned in the games?

Either way, I agree, they were digging Omega for a reason, and it was never fully explained why. Though the above theory does give a lot of weight behind Cerberus' motives.

One of the novels has a reaper comment about 'how they use our devices' or something, though it could have been referring to technology in general and not specifically omega.

[DaveTheRave05]

Ah, I see. Funny thing, I have Retribution, but haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Maybe I should.

In any case, thanks for clearing that up for me.

[MegumiAzusa]

Rifneno wrote...

DaveTheRave05 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Another theory: there's something buried in Omega. They were straining the drills trying to get as deep as they could as fast as they could. But the eezo might not be the goal, simply a happy byproduct. We know the Reapers implied that they built Omega.

I missed this point o.O Where's it mentioned in the games?

Either way, I agree, they were digging Omega for a reason, and it was never fully explained why. Though the above theory does give a lot of weight behind Cerberus' motives.

Not in the game.  In the books.  Retribution to be exact.  The Reapers are looking around Omega through Paul Grayson's eyes and refer to it as "the works of our kind".

Which is also the book by Karpyshyn with the most mistakes.

[RavenEyry]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Which is also the book by Karpyshyn with the most mistakes.

Like what?
(Honest question, I've never heard of mistakes in retribution being mentioned before)

[Restrider]

Clarification on the following question is really needed:
Is Cerberus working for itself/TIM or is it a Reaper puppet?
If the latter, since when?

If these questions are answered, we could understand the whole point of Omega, Sanctuary (being attacked by Reapers), the Citadel Coup, Sur'Kesh attacked by Cerberus... heck, we would understand Cerberus' role in ME3.

[MegumiAzusa]

RavenEyry wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Which is also the book by Karpyshyn with the most mistakes.

Like what?
(Honest question, I've never heard of mistakes in retribution being mentioned before)

Asari blood having the same color as human blood for example. Would have to reread it again, but there were quite some occasions where it contradicted the games.

[RavenEyry]

There have been blood related mistakes in at least one comic and in ME3 so I'd call that particular error forgivable.

[DaveTheRave05]

Restrider wrote...

Clarification on the following question is really needed:
Is Cerberus working for itself/TIM or is it a Reaper puppet?
If the latter, since when?

If these questions are answered, we could understand the whole point of Omega, Sanctuary (being attacked by Reapers), the Citadel Coup, Sur'Kesh attacked by Cerberus... heck, we would understand Cerberus' role in ME3.

I feel it's a little of both. Cerberus started as a pro-Human splinter group, experimenting on various races, including humanity itself, with the goal of propelling human dominance. But ME2 and ME3 showed more sinister motives, and with TIM under indoctrination, they're under Reaper control.

Cerberus' goal in my mind was to cause chaos and disruption, under the influence of The Reapers, but now, adding the theory Uranium has put forward, to create a new Reaper, like the Collectors in ME2 were trying to do.

Omega and Sanctuary were testing grounds. The coup was an attempt to disrupt the council's rule and leave the whole galaxy without a government, leaving it more disorganized and easier for The Reapers to destroy the systems. Sur'Kesh, Cerberus were attempting to kill Eve, wiping out the last chance to cure the Genophage, and effectively removing the might the Krogans could provide to the war effort.

In short, Cerberus were under Reaper control via The Illusive Man. Whilst TIM had his own motives, those same motives are overshadowed by his indoctrination.

[BleedingUranium]

DaveTheRave05 wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Clarification on the following question is really needed:
Is Cerberus working for itself/TIM or is it a Reaper puppet?
If the latter, since when?

If these questions are answered, we could understand the whole point of Omega, Sanctuary (being attacked by Reapers), the Citadel Coup, Sur'Kesh attacked by Cerberus... heck, we would understand Cerberus' role in ME3.

I feel it's a little of both. Cerberus started as a pro-Human splinter group, experimenting on various races, including humanity itself, with the goal of propelling human dominance. But ME2 and ME3 showed more sinister motives, and with TIM under indoctrination, they're under Reaper control.

Cerberus' goal in my mind was to cause chaos and disruption, under the influence of The Reapers, but now, adding the theory Uranium has put forward, to create a new Reaper, like the Collectors in ME2 were trying to do.

Omega and Sanctuary were testing grounds. The coup was an attempt to disrupt the council's rule and leave the whole galaxy without a government, leaving it more disorganized and easier for The Reapers to destroy the systems. Sur'Kesh, Cerberus were attempting to kill Eve, wiping out the last chance to cure the Genophage, and effectively removing the might the Krogans could provide to the war effort.

In short, Cerberus were under Reaper control via The Illusive Man. Whilst TIM had his own motives, those same motives are overshadowed by his indoctrination.

Good summary. The simplest way I can put it is while Saren willingly allied himself with the Reapers, TIM thinks he's still fighting them, when in reality he's being tricked into helping them. It's the same difference between Control and Synthesis at the end.

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

DaveTheRave05 wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Clarification on the following question is really needed:
Is Cerberus working for itself/TIM or is it a Reaper puppet?
If the latter, since when?

If these questions are answered, we could understand the whole point of Omega, Sanctuary (being attacked by Reapers), the Citadel Coup, Sur'Kesh attacked by Cerberus... heck, we would understand Cerberus' role in ME3.

I feel it's a little of both. Cerberus started as a pro-Human splinter group, experimenting on various races, including humanity itself, with the goal of propelling human dominance. But ME2 and ME3 showed more sinister motives, and with TIM under indoctrination, they're under Reaper control.

Cerberus' goal in my mind was to cause chaos and disruption, under the influence of The Reapers, but now, adding the theory Uranium has put forward, to create a new Reaper, like the Collectors in ME2 were trying to do.

Omega and Sanctuary were testing grounds. The coup was an attempt to disrupt the council's rule and leave the whole galaxy without a government, leaving it more disorganized and easier for The Reapers to destroy the systems. Sur'Kesh, Cerberus were attempting to kill Eve, wiping out the last chance to cure the Genophage, and effectively removing the might the Krogans could provide to the war effort.

In short, Cerberus were under Reaper control via The Illusive Man. Whilst TIM had his own motives, those same motives are overshadowed by his indoctrination.

Good summary. The simplest way I can put it is while Saren willingly allied himself with the Reapers, TIM thinks he's still fighting them, when in reality he's being tricked into helping them. It's the same difference between Control and Synthesis at the end.

You have no idea if Saren was even changed by the Monolith, his real change came with getting his hands on Sovereign. TIM was affected, but you still cannot say if he was indoctrinated or not.

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

DaveTheRave05 wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Clarification on the following question is really needed:
Is Cerberus working for itself/TIM or is it a Reaper puppet?
If the latter, since when?

If these questions are answered, we could understand the whole point of Omega, Sanctuary (being attacked by Reapers), the Citadel Coup, Sur'Kesh attacked by Cerberus... heck, we would understand Cerberus' role in ME3.

I feel it's a little of both. Cerberus started as a pro-Human splinter group, experimenting on various races, including humanity itself, with the goal of propelling human dominance. But ME2 and ME3 showed more sinister motives, and with TIM under indoctrination, they're under Reaper control.

Cerberus' goal in my mind was to cause chaos and disruption, under the influence of The Reapers, but now, adding the theory Uranium has put forward, to create a new Reaper, like the Collectors in ME2 were trying to do.

Omega and Sanctuary were testing grounds. The coup was an attempt to disrupt the council's rule and leave the whole galaxy without a government, leaving it more disorganized and easier for The Reapers to destroy the systems. Sur'Kesh, Cerberus were attempting to kill Eve, wiping out the last chance to cure the Genophage, and effectively removing the might the Krogans could provide to the war effort.

In short, Cerberus were under Reaper control via The Illusive Man. Whilst TIM had his own motives, those same motives are overshadowed by his indoctrination.

Good summary. The simplest way I can put it is while Saren willingly allied himself with the Reapers, TIM thinks he's still fighting them, when in reality he's being tricked into helping them. It's the same difference between Control and Synthesis at the end.

You have no idea if Saren was even changed by the Monolith, his real change came with getting his hands on Sovereign. TIM was affected, but you still cannot say if he was indoctrinated or not.

Do you really need something spelled out that much for you?

[CoolioThane]

Damn, Blur! That theory is mighty fine!