80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

CoolioThane wrote...

Damn, Blur! That theory is mighty fine!

Thanks

I should try to get some sleep tonight, I'm out

[The Heretic of Time]

Restrider wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Face it, after the EC the indoctrination theory doesn't hold much water anymore. It was a good theory for as long as it lasted, but the epilogues added with the EC bring a lot of questions to the table.

You guys say the epilogues are "illusions" or "a dream", but then what is the epilogue if you choose destroy? Also an illusion? Why would Shepard see an illusion if he just broke free of the indoctrination?

Or are you now claiming that all epilogues are illusions except for the Destroy epilogue? But isn't that measuring with double standards? By saying that, aren't you just trying to fit what you see into your theory, instead of trying to adjust your theory to what you actually see? That doesn't really add up though does it?

I'll try to explain it:
All slide shows have one thing in common. They are a message of hope and Shepard is trying to justifiy his/her decision by imagining how things will pan out in the future. This is also supported by the fact that the epilogues are about things that are supposedly happening in the future and not about thinks that have happened (of course in a literal sense, it would be a bit weird for an epilogue to describe past things).
So, we assume that all slide shows are an illusion in Shepards head to justify his/her decision and are a message of hope (this even applies to the Refuse ending... the hope for future civilizations to end the Reaper cycle, though difference in the stargazer scene is peculiar and renders the Refuse ending as a wild card).
Furthermore the Breath Scene plays after the slide shows. Of course in movies/games there a scenes that are not chronologically played out etc., but thus the slide shows do not collide with IT, in my view.

But that begs the question: Why does Shepard see an illusion if he chose the (according to you guys correct) option, the Destroy option? If he chose Destroy, shouldn't Shepard be free from indoctrination? Isn't the indoctrination attempt succesfully stopped right then right there?

[MegumiAzusa]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Face it, after the EC the indoctrination theory doesn't hold much water anymore. It was a good theory for as long as it lasted, but the epilogues added with the EC bring a lot of questions to the table.

You guys say the epilogues are "illusions" or "a dream", but then what is the epilogue if you choose destroy? Also an illusion? Why would Shepard see an illusion if he just broke free of the indoctrination?

Or are you now claiming that all epilogues are illusions except for the Destroy epilogue? But isn't that measuring with double standards? By saying that, aren't you just trying to fit what you see into your theory, instead of trying to adjust your theory to what you actually see? That doesn't really add up though does it?

I'll try to explain it:
All slide shows have one thing in common. They are a message of hope and Shepard is trying to justifiy his/her decision by imagining how things will pan out in the future. This is also supported by the fact that the epilogues are about things that are supposedly happening in the future and not about thinks that have happened (of course in a literal sense, it would be a bit weird for an epilogue to describe past things).
So, we assume that all slide shows are an illusion in Shepards head to justify his/her decision and are a message of hope (this even applies to the Refuse ending... the hope for future civilizations to end the Reaper cycle, though difference in the stargazer scene is peculiar and renders the Refuse ending as a wild card).
Furthermore the Breath Scene plays after the slide shows. Of course in movies/games there a scenes that are not chronologically played out etc., but thus the slide shows do not collide with IT, in my view.

But that begs the question: Why does Shepard see an illusion if he chose the (according to you guys correct) option, the Destroy option? If he chose Destroy, shouldn't Shepard be free from indoctrination? Isn't the indoctrination attempt succesfully stopped right then right there?

No need to try, if something doesn't fit they create something so it could fit, no matter how absurd.

[RavenEyry]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
No need to try, if something doesn't fit they create something so it could fit, no matter how absurd.

Coming from someone who used to agree with us.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Face it, after the EC the indoctrination theory doesn't hold much water anymore. It was a good theory for as long as it lasted, but the epilogues added with the EC bring a lot of questions to the table.

You guys say the epilogues are "illusions" or "a dream", but then what is the epilogue if you choose destroy? Also an illusion? Why would Shepard see an illusion if he just broke free of the indoctrination?

Or are you now claiming that all epilogues are illusions except for the Destroy epilogue? But isn't that measuring with double standards? By saying that, aren't you just trying to fit what you see into your theory, instead of trying to adjust your theory to what you actually see? That doesn't really add up though does it?

I'll try to explain it:
All slide shows have one thing in common. They are a message of hope and Shepard is trying to justifiy his/her decision by imagining how things will pan out in the future. This is also supported by the fact that the epilogues are about things that are supposedly happening in the future and not about thinks that have happened (of course in a literal sense, it would be a bit weird for an epilogue to describe past things).
So, we assume that all slide shows are an illusion in Shepards head to justify his/her decision and are a message of hope (this even applies to the Refuse ending... the hope for future civilizations to end the Reaper cycle, though difference in the stargazer scene is peculiar and renders the Refuse ending as a wild card).
Furthermore the Breath Scene plays after the slide shows. Of course in movies/games there a scenes that are not chronologically played out etc., but thus the slide shows do not collide with IT, in my view.

But that begs the question: Why does Shepard see an illusion if he chose the (according to you guys correct) option, the Destroy option? If he chose Destroy, shouldn't Shepard be free from indoctrination? Isn't the indoctrination attempt succesfully stopped right then right there?

I dont really know, taht is one of the questions we are asking ourselves alot. I suppose it could be a last attempt at destablizing Shepard by the Reapers,

But mostly I go with a metagame reason. If the Destroy ending skipped the entire scene of the Crucible firing and the Slideshow afterwards cutting straight to the breath scene the cat would pretty much be out of the bag.

[MegumiAzusa]

RavenEyry wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
No need to try, if something doesn't fit they create something so it could fit, no matter how absurd.

Coming from someone who used to agree with us.

I always only agreed up to a certain point, which I always said. If I noticed something didn't fit I usually spoke up against it.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:03 .

[RavenEyry]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
No need to try, if something doesn't fit they create something so it could fit, no matter how absurd.

Coming from someone who used to agree with us.

I always only agreed up to a certain point, which I always said. If I noticed something didn't fit I usually spoke up against it.

Visions continuing after every choice has been an awkward fit since day one but now apparently we're scrambling to fit square pegs in round holes.

[The Heretic of Time]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Face it, after the EC the indoctrination theory doesn't hold much water anymore. It was a good theory for as long as it lasted, but the epilogues added with the EC bring a lot of questions to the table.

You guys say the epilogues are "illusions" or "a dream", but then what is the epilogue if you choose destroy? Also an illusion? Why would Shepard see an illusion if he just broke free of the indoctrination?

Or are you now claiming that all epilogues are illusions except for the Destroy epilogue? But isn't that measuring with double standards? By saying that, aren't you just trying to fit what you see into your theory, instead of trying to adjust your theory to what you actually see? That doesn't really add up though does it?

I'll try to explain it:
All slide shows have one thing in common. They are a message of hope and Shepard is trying to justifiy his/her decision by imagining how things will pan out in the future. This is also supported by the fact that the epilogues are about things that are supposedly happening in the future and not about thinks that have happened (of course in a literal sense, it would be a bit weird for an epilogue to describe past things).
So, we assume that all slide shows are an illusion in Shepards head to justify his/her decision and are a message of hope (this even applies to the Refuse ending... the hope for future civilizations to end the Reaper cycle, though difference in the stargazer scene is peculiar and renders the Refuse ending as a wild card).
Furthermore the Breath Scene plays after the slide shows. Of course in movies/games there a scenes that are not chronologically played out etc., but thus the slide shows do not collide with IT, in my view.

But that begs the question: Why does Shepard see an illusion if he chose the (according to you guys correct) option, the Destroy option? If he chose Destroy, shouldn't Shepard be free from indoctrination? Isn't the indoctrination attempt succesfully stopped right then right there?

I dont really know, taht is one of the questions we are asking ourselves alot. I suppose it could be a last attempt at destablizing Shepard by the Reapers,

Destablizing Shepard... by showing him positive images of hope and victory....? Yeah... sure... that makes sense... or not.

But mostly I go with a metagame reason. If the Destroy ending skipped the entire scene of the Crucible firing and the Slideshow afterwards cutting straight to the breath scene the cat would pretty much be out of the bag.

True. But as it stands now it doesn't make much sense from an IT perspective. If the IT was true, BioWare could have solved this more cleverly by perhaps making the EC more ambiguous with more IT clues. Or they could have simply skipped the EC altogether. Or they could have revealed the IT plot right there right then with the EC.

Instead, BioWare chose not to expand on the IT with the EC. They decided to give us closure and show us the direct results AND future results of our final choice instead. The few extra clues that the EC might have provided for the IT are in my opinion just accidental. It's pure coicidence that some of the scenes and dialogue in the IT could be intepretated from an IT perspective. That's what I think.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:08 .

[MegumiAzusa]

RavenEyry wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
No need to try, if something doesn't fit they create something so it could fit, no matter how absurd.

Coming from someone who used to agree with us.

I always only agreed up to a certain point, which I always said. If I noticed something didn't fit I usually spoke up against it.

Visions continuing after every choice has been an awkward fit since day one but now apparently we're scrambling to fit square pegs in round holes.

I were against the theory Shep is in London. I always disagreed with the Mako, Big Ben and other optical illusions.

[MegumiAzusa]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Face it, after the EC the indoctrination theory doesn't hold much water anymore. It was a good theory for as long as it lasted, but the epilogues added with the EC bring a lot of questions to the table.

You guys say the epilogues are "illusions" or "a dream", but then what is the epilogue if you choose destroy? Also an illusion? Why would Shepard see an illusion if he just broke free of the indoctrination?

Or are you now claiming that all epilogues are illusions except for the Destroy epilogue? But isn't that measuring with double standards? By saying that, aren't you just trying to fit what you see into your theory, instead of trying to adjust your theory to what you actually see? That doesn't really add up though does it?

I'll try to explain it:
All slide shows have one thing in common. They are a message of hope and Shepard is trying to justifiy his/her decision by imagining how things will pan out in the future. This is also supported by the fact that the epilogues are about things that are supposedly happening in the future and not about thinks that have happened (of course in a literal sense, it would be a bit weird for an epilogue to describe past things).
So, we assume that all slide shows are an illusion in Shepards head to justify his/her decision and are a message of hope (this even applies to the Refuse ending... the hope for future civilizations to end the Reaper cycle, though difference in the stargazer scene is peculiar and renders the Refuse ending as a wild card).
Furthermore the Breath Scene plays after the slide shows. Of course in movies/games there a scenes that are not chronologically played out etc., but thus the slide shows do not collide with IT, in my view.

But that begs the question: Why does Shepard see an illusion if he chose the (according to you guys correct) option, the Destroy option? If he chose Destroy, shouldn't Shepard be free from indoctrination? Isn't the indoctrination attempt succesfully stopped right then right there?

I dont really know, taht is one of the questions we are asking ourselves alot. I suppose it could be a last attempt at destablizing Shepard by the Reapers,

Destablizing Shepard... by showing him positive images of hope and victory....? Yeah... sure... that makes sense... or not.

But mostly I go with a metagame reason. If the Destroy ending skipped the entire scene of the Crucible firing and the Slideshow afterwards cutting straight to the breath scene the cat would pretty much be out of the bag.

True. But as it stands now it doesn't make much sense from an IT perspective. If the IT was true, BioWare could have solved this more cleverly by perhaps making the EC more ambiguous with more IT clues. Or they could have simply skipped the EC altogether. Or they could have revealed the IT plot right there right then with the EC.

Instead, BioWare chose not to expand on the IT with the EC. They decided to give us closure and show us the direct results AND future results of our final choice instead. The few extra clues that the EC might have provided for the IT are in my opinion just accidental. It's pure coicidence that some of the scenes and dialogue in the IT could be intepretated from an IT perspective. That's what I think.

New stuff that could be seen as pro IT were added... up until the TIM/Anderson scene, which is where the attack on Sheps mind happens. You hear the whispers, see the strange tendrils, etc

[Restrider]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Face it, after the EC the indoctrination theory doesn't hold much water anymore. It was a good theory for as long as it lasted, but the epilogues added with the EC bring a lot of questions to the table.

You guys say the epilogues are "illusions" or "a dream", but then what is the epilogue if you choose destroy? Also an illusion? Why would Shepard see an illusion if he just broke free of the indoctrination?

Or are you now claiming that all epilogues are illusions except for the Destroy epilogue? But isn't that measuring with double standards? By saying that, aren't you just trying to fit what you see into your theory, instead of trying to adjust your theory to what you actually see? That doesn't really add up though does it?

I'll try to explain it:
All slide shows have one thing in common. They are a message of hope and Shepard is trying to justifiy his/her decision by imagining how things will pan out in the future. This is also supported by the fact that the epilogues are about things that are supposedly happening in the future and not about thinks that have happened (of course in a literal sense, it would be a bit weird for an epilogue to describe past things).
So, we assume that all slide shows are an illusion in Shepards head to justify his/her decision and are a message of hope (this even applies to the Refuse ending... the hope for future civilizations to end the Reaper cycle, though difference in the stargazer scene is peculiar and renders the Refuse ending as a wild card).
Furthermore the Breath Scene plays after the slide shows. Of course in movies/games there a scenes that are not chronologically played out etc., but thus the slide shows do not collide with IT, in my view.

But that begs the question: Why does Shepard see an illusion if he chose the (according to you guys correct) option, the Destroy option? If he chose Destroy, shouldn't Shepard be free from indoctrination? Isn't the indoctrination attempt succesfully stopped right then right there?

I dont really know, taht is one of the questions we are asking ourselves alot. I suppose it could be a last attempt at destablizing Shepard by the Reapers,

But mostly I go with a metagame reason. If the Destroy ending skipped the entire scene of the Crucible firing and the Slideshow afterwards cutting straight to the breath scene the cat would pretty much be out of the bag.

The point is, we do not fully understand how indoctrination works.
It has been stated a few times now that the Reapers have an influence on Shepard to the point where you make the choice. If Shepard is indeed lying around in London rubble, then the illusion of the Destroy ending might be still an illusion/dream/hallucination due to the mental instability caused by the indoctrination attempt and/or trauma caused by the explosion/beam hit. The same would go for the other slide shows, since it could just be Shepards consciousness trying to rationalize/justify his/her decision. Shepard just does not wake up as Shepard anymore in Synthesis/Control/Refuse if at all. Of course this is just speculation.
Your question is really interesting, but I think we just have not enough information regarding indoctrination and how breaking free works and what it might cause with the victim.

[Restrider]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

True. But as it stands now it doesn't make much sense from an IT perspective. If the IT was true, BioWare could have solved this more cleverly by perhaps making the EC more ambiguous with more IT clues. Or they could have simply skipped the EC altogether. Or they could have revealed the IT plot right there right then with the EC.

Instead, BioWare chose not to expand on the IT with the EC. They decided to give us closure and show us the direct results AND future results of our final choice instead. The few extra clues that the EC might have provided for the IT are in my opinion just accidental. It's pure coicidence that some of the scenes and dialogue in the IT could be intepretated from an IT perspective. That's what I think.

The EC was never planned and BW obviously did not expect that backlash due to their original endings. They expected speculations, everyone scratching their head and due to this vagueness selling DLC, slowly giving more context/clues to what really happened (Leviathan as a huge bolster for IT; Omega as it seems not really that much) and have a huge reveal at the end of the cycle and thus creating a possible hype for ME4.
Now, everything went wrong, fans raging and they had to appease them with some sort of closure while not totally jeopardizing their long term plan. Maybe they have even given up on that plan, who knows?
If the whole thing was revealed too soon, the following DLCs and the twists in them would've rendered pointless.

At least that is something I can imagine that happened. Of course this leaves you with the fact that you've been given an incomplete game, but we are talking about EA here, so it is totally believable.

[CoolioThane]

I've never understood the people like EXMEFan. Why come on this thread if you truly hate the IT?

Random though, sorry

[masster blaster]

You know what's funny. When the Catalyst tells Shepard that TIM could not control us because we already control him I find it funny because TIM says " No I'm in Control. Nobody is telling me what to do. Is TIM lying. Yes for IT TIM is the Indoctrinated part of Shepard's mind, but you know the whispers we hear Could they be telling Shepard what to do/ think.

Remember the Prothean beacon on thesis. You can hear whispers, and a Reaper horn. And Shepard then says " There is a Prothean beacon under here. I mean sure Javik felt that the beacon was here, but he didn't know where it was, but Shepard did. If you watch the sense again Shepard walks over to the statue, and then he/she puts his/her hands out like Javik and then says again" There is a Prothean beacon under here."

Also could the whispers be telling Shepard that you couldn't save the ones you loved. Thus we hear our dead squadmates because the voices in Shepard's head are telling Shepard again you couldn't save them all. Hence like Bioware said the child represents everyone that is dying in the galaxy. Thus again in the second dream the whispers/ the olily shadows crowd around the child in the dreams.

Modifié par masster blaster, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:37 .

[RavenEyry]

Are you suggesting the shadows which supposedly represent the dead are trying to keep Shepard from the child? If so it's a possibility.

[Andromidius]

Okay. Going way back to explain why showing Shepard good things post-decision - because if you convince someone they've won, you've accepted the false reality created for you. Simple psychology.

Anyway. I think its reasonably clear that Cerberus has only been directly Reaper controlled during ME3. In ME1 they were terrorists and extremists doing experiments so they could overthrow the Alliance and take over 'for the good of Humanity'. That's my educated guess at least. In ME2 they start experimenting with Reaper technology more, adopting the stance of 'using the weapons of my enemy'. Once we get to ME3 they've gone too far - directly implanting their troops and using indoctrination for their own purposes. Straight into the Reapers' trap, only they don't know it.

The attack on Sanctuary feels like a cover, an attempt to blur the lines of who the enemy is and hide what was going on there. Notice how the Reapers are barely there before Shepard - i.e. just in time for Shepard to see the fighting.

Now Omega. I like all the ideas floating around. Makes sense that they might be taking over the Collector's role of...well, collecting. Only they are doing it on an industrial level, since all the testing required was done by the Collectors - humans are compatible, so they need to harvest them en-mass.

Notice their actions on Benning, Sanctuary, Eden Prime and Omega. They are maintaining control over the population, and then taking people away for 'processing'. They are even maintaining control over non-humans on Omega rather then rounding them up for executions! So potentially they are planning on using them for turning into Husk troops, hense the experiments on Sanctuary? Heck, maybe even the Reapers there were created by Cerberus and went rogue like the first group of Adjutants they created?

And yes, it all explains why they wanted Omega. They wanted the Eezo, the population, control over TWO Relays, destablisation of the Terminus forces, and maybe whatever is buried in Omega's mines.

My arse if there aren't more secrets hiding inside Omega, I don't stomach the idea that the secrets were a bunch of access tunnels!

Modifié par Andromidius, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:48 .

[dorktainian]

RavenEyry wrote...

Are you suggesting the shadows which supposedly represent the dead are trying to keep Shepard from the child? If so it's a possibility.

 I always assumed the 'voices' were of those who had now succumbed to indoctrination, protecting starbrat.  there starts out noone, and gradually as indoctrination takes a hold of these people they enter 'the dream'

Modifié par dorktainian, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:51 .

[RavenEyry]

dorktainian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Are you suggesting the shadows which supposedly represent the dead are trying to keep Shepard from the child? If so it's a possibility.

 I always assumed the 'voices' were of those who had now succumbed to indoctrination, protecting starbrat.  there starts out noone, and gradually as indoctrination takes a hold of these people they enter 'the dream'

There's voices from friends in there too, mostly saying 'Shepard' and 'buck up, son' comments, so maybe a bit of both.

[dorktainian]

RavenEyry wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Are you suggesting the shadows which supposedly represent the dead are trying to keep Shepard from the child? If so it's a possibility.

 I always assumed the 'voices' were of those who had now succumbed to indoctrination, protecting starbrat.  there starts out noone, and gradually as indoctrination takes a hold of these people they enter 'the dream'

There's voices from friends in there too, mostly saying 'Shepard' and 'buck up, son' comments, so maybe a bit of both.

 thats why i thought indoctrination rather than death.  Star brats there.  He was never dead.  He never existed. He represents the reapers.  The oily shadows are the persons being indoctrinated. the 'now' reaper converts - unknowingly working for them to prevent shepard from destroying the reapers.  When he reaches star brat at the end he embraces him.  Thats shepard embracing indoctrination and humanity as a result burns.

Modifié par dorktainian, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:55 .

[Andromidius]

dorktainian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Are you suggesting the shadows which supposedly represent the dead are trying to keep Shepard from the child? If so it's a possibility.

 I always assumed the 'voices' were of those who had now succumbed to indoctrination, protecting starbrat.  there starts out noone, and gradually as indoctrination takes a hold of these people they enter 'the dream'

Though some of the voices say things like "don't trust the child" and "stay away", don't they?

I think its more a representation of Shepard's subconscience warning him/her.  The louder voices might not be so benign, since its dead squadmates and allies repeating things they've already said (or could potentially say). 

That suggests 'guilt' over the lost much more then the child ever did, and hense might be part of the indoctrination attempt, constantly reminding Shepard of everyone who died 'because of him/her'. 

The warning voices are much quieter and harder to hear, and in later dreams start becoming overpowered by Reaper voices.  The warning voices are being drowned out by louder voices trying to distract Shepard's sense of purpose.

[dorktainian]

Andromidius wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Are you suggesting the shadows which supposedly represent the dead are trying to keep Shepard from the child? If so it's a possibility.

 I always assumed the 'voices' were of those who had now succumbed to indoctrination, protecting starbrat.  there starts out noone, and gradually as indoctrination takes a hold of these people they enter 'the dream'

Though some of the voices say things like "don't trust the child" and "stay away", don't they?

I think its more a representation of Shepard's subconscience warning him/her.  The louder voices might not be so benign, since its dead squadmates and allies repeating things they've already said (or could potentially say). 

That suggests 'guilt' over the lost much more then the child ever did, and hense might be part of the indoctrination attempt, constantly reminding Shepard of everyone who died 'because of him/her'. 

The warning voices are much quieter and harder to hear, and in later dreams start becoming overpowered by Reaper voices.  The warning voices are being drowned out by louder voices trying to distract Shepard's sense of purpose.

 yeah but dont forget the personality of the person becoming indoctrination may not change.  they may still on a subconscious level be aware and able to whisper warnings in the background before they become fully indoctrinated.  Saren knew what he was doing - even tho indoctrinated. 

[Andromidius]

dorktainian wrote...
yeah but dont forget the personality of the person becoming indoctrination may not change.  they may still on a subconscious level be aware and able to whisper warnings in the background before they become fully indoctrinated.  Saren knew what he was doing - even tho indoctrinated. 

Aye.  Shepard is always aware of the losses suffered around them, but a subtle change of thinking can lead to indoctrination - namely survivor's guilt.  Why did I survive when everyone else didn't?

[RavenEyry]

Y'know both good and bad whispers surrounding the kid (who to me represents reaper influence in the dreams) vaguely reminds me of the fifth doctor's regeneration. As he's dying there's images of several past companions saying 'you mustn't die' and the master shouting 'no, die doctor die!'.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Hello all again.

Regarding the squadmates in the dreams I would guess they are mostly Reaper manipulation. What better way to turn Shepard away from making more sacrifices than showing him all who have sacrificed themselves for him to get to that point. Feed him guilt.

Also just did a quick run into Omega to test for any peculiar noises during the first encounter with a Adjutant, taht is before you actually fight it, but after its hows itself. Aria compares the noises it made to whispers, but nothing of taht there from what I could hear, more like the Adjutant seemed to be growling.

So nothing there of unusual stuff I could find.

Dragon on top.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 28 novembre 2012 - 03:07 .

[dorktainian]

Andromidius wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
yeah but dont forget the personality of the person becoming indoctrination may not change.  they may still on a subconscious level be aware and able to whisper warnings in the background before they become fully indoctrinated.  Saren knew what he was doing - even tho indoctrinated. 

Aye.  Shepard is always aware of the losses suffered around them, but a subtle change of thinking can lead to indoctrination - namely survivor's guilt.  Why did I survive when everyone else didn't?

 

Even saren himself when indoctrinated thought he was doing the right thing, but was doing so for all the wrong reasons.  He thought he was saving us.  He was lied to.  He was ushering in our demise.  If we take a step back and look at Shepard, in what way can we say shepard is in a similar position to saren?  Both undergoing indoctrination, both singularly focused on an objective.  Both cybernetically enhanced.  The dream sequence could well have been similar to what the reapers did to saren.  Give a reason to serve.  Highlight the fact.  Cloud judgement.  Until in the end you embrace servitude and there is no way back.