80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Ithurael wrote...

hmm I did forget about the 'negotiate portion' in ME3 that is a good point.

Though, then again reapers are more 'machine-like' so there is the lia via omission, but a lie is a lie none the less. Well played badger

Though, how is most of what sovy says a lie? I always liked Soveriegn. Though Harbinger will always be infinitely his greater.

Well, I did say "if you believe Harby and starbrat."  Which I sure as hell don't. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

when did the reapers really lie?

Sovereign: "We are eternal, the pinnacle of existance."

Sovereign: "The cycle cannot be broken."

Sovereign: "We have no beginning."

Need I go on?

"Jump into this beam and it'll rewrite the way reality works" is a pretty good one too.  You kind of have to be "legally required to wear a helmet to Wal-Mart" to believe it though.

Nice euphemism.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I view it as something similar to a Homunculi's Philosopher Stone in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. In this anime, a Philosopher stone was made by melting down thousands of people into it, and then a Homunculus, who claim to be the perfect lifeforms btw, is formed from it. The stone still has all the souls inside who retain their individuality, but the Homunculus themself has their own identity.  

Sure. And that makes perfect sense. Just like Legion has somewhat of an individual personality.

But it seems rather weird and conterproductive to force the personality of an individual organic on an entire hive-mind.

I think, when a reaper is born, there is also a new personality born from the hive-mind, based on the collective experience of the entire species the reaper was build from.

I agree with you. One of the Homunculi, named Wrath, states that his personality was formed from the collective wrath of those trapped in his stone, but that he is his own person. There are other examples throughout the anime as well, such as the inside the philosopher stone scenes where it shows all the souls as ghost-like faces in the background, and yet the Homunculus's personality is a seperate, full body person who dwells inside it.

I've seen the anime, You're talking about the remake of Full-Metal Alchemist right? FMA: Brotherhood.

And yes, I agree with you. It's also exactly what we see in the Control ending of the Extended Cut by the way. We see Shepard as a full body person dwelling inside a reaper. Not sure if BioWare intended it to be intepretated as such, or if they just wanted to make a cool cut from one shot to another shot by going from the Shepard-walking-in-the-mist scene to the reapers-rebuilding scene with a white flash from the reaper headlight.

Yes, but Brotherhood is based on the Fullmetal Alchemist manga, so technically FMA is a remake of FMA:B.
I'm glad you agree with me. Usually on threads when I bring up anime equivilents I get shot down for various reasons. As for the Control epilogue, I think they meant to show that he was controlling that Reaper, but not necessarily dwelling inside it, though I suppose it's possible for Shepalyst to "assume direct control" of any individual Reaper.

[BleedingUranium]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
"Jump into this beam and it'll rewrite the way reality works" is a pretty good one too.  You kind of have to be "legally required to wear a helmet to Wal-Mart" to believe it though.

I think the only 'honest' Reaper so far has been Harbinger.  Mostly because he's pretty blunt about how much he hates Organics, and how much he wants to get his tenticles on Shepard's body.

My vote goes to Sovereign.  He's a Lovecraftian horror, but at least he's honest about it and not spewing any of that "I'm saving you by torture-murdering you" drivel.

Lovecraftian horror is stupid, especially in something as relatively grounded in reality as Mass Effect. Sovereign was just spewing crap to scare everyone, that was pretty obvious to me the first time I met him. Whether he actually believed it himself doesn't really matter.

Sovereign should have been named "Hubris".

[BansheeOwnage]

401 Kill wrote...

I would imagine that the presumed "Citadel DLC" would be more "plot relevant" than Omega. Maybe even Leviathan! They have the opportunity to do some amazing things there, especially since all the ME3 writers are working on it.

As far as I know the DLC after the Citadel one is the one with all the writers. I believe the Citadel one is already done and being tested.

[Andromidius]

OH SNAP.

You know you were talking about the two Omega soldiers talking via communicator, and how one was lost? His Omni-tool is broken, yet his communicator is working just fine. Remind you of someone?

Oh Bioware, you so crafty.

[CmdrShep80]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

when did the reapers really lie?

Sovereign: "We are eternal, the pinnacle of existance."

Sovereign: "The cycle cannot be broken."

Sovereign: "We have no beginning."

Need I go on?

"Jump into this beam and it'll rewrite the way reality works" is a pretty good one too.  You kind of have to be "legally required to wear a helmet to Wal-Mart" to believe it though.

Nice euphemism.

LOL could that be described like a Mobius strip?  It too is eternal, the cycle cannot be broken, and has no beginning.  Though I can't speak for the pinnacle of existance but it's possible I suppose

[Rifneno]

Andromidius wrote...

OH SNAP.

You know you were talking about the two Omega soldiers talking via communicator, and how one was lost? His Omni-tool is broken, yet his communicator is working just fine. Remind you of someone?

Oh Bioware, you so crafty.

Do you know if there's a public extranet terminal around here?  My omni-tool's been broken for an eternity.

[BansheeOwnage]

Ithurael wrote...
I always liked Soveriegn. Though Harbinger will always be infinitely his greater.

THIS.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Played Omega. Easily the most action packed ME DLC released so far. The story was about as deep as I expected it to be. No complaints there. Overall I was impressed.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

I would imagine that the presumed "Citadel DLC" would be more "plot relevant" than Omega. Maybe even Leviathan! They have the opportunity to do some amazing things there, especially since all the ME3 writers are working on it.

As far as I know the DLC after the Citadel one is the one with all the writers. I believe the Citadel one is already done and being tested.

Apparently, the next DLC, which we've dubbed Citadel, is already in the QA phase and have had all the voice work done already, so the one with every writer is probably the one after that.

[BleedingUranium]

Andromidius wrote...

OH SNAP.

You know you were talking about the two Omega soldiers talking via communicator, and how one was lost? His Omni-tool is broken, yet his communicator is working just fine. Remind you of someone?

Oh Bioware, you so crafty.

And he's somewhere that doesn't seem to exist too

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

OH SNAP.

You know you were talking about the two Omega soldiers talking via communicator, and how one was lost? His Omni-tool is broken, yet his communicator is working just fine. Remind you of someone?

Oh Bioware, you so crafty.

Do you know if there's a public extranet terminal around here?  My omni-tool's been broken for an eternity.

Well there is that, but I get the impression that since she's guiding him around he's not using an extranet terminal.  If they are even still open to public use during the occupation.

Still, gives me the vibe that someone knew what they were doing when they wrote that little tidbit.

[Rifneno]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Lovecraftian horror is stupid, especially in something as relatively grounded in reality as Mass Effect. Sovereign was just spewing crap to scare everyone, that was pretty obvious to me the first time I met him. Whether he actually believed it himself doesn't really matter.

Sovereign should have been named "Hubris".

No, I'm pretty sure Leviathan has the patent on Hubris.

Lovecraftian horror is one of the reasons Mass Effect was so good.  Pretty much any incomprehensible alien monster qualifies.  Alien and monster are pretty obvious, why's it unrealistic for an ancient malevolent starship from behind the stars to be beyond our piddly human comprehension?

[BansheeOwnage]

Andromidius wrote...

OH SNAP.

You know you were talking about the two Omega soldiers talking via communicator, and how one was lost? His Omni-tool is broken, yet his communicator is working just fine. Remind you of someone?

Oh Bioware, you so crafty.

Hey, you're right! He's even in a part of a station that no one has heard of before!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 29 novembre 2012 - 04:16 .

[CmdrShep80]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

OH SNAP.

You know you were talking about the two Omega soldiers talking via communicator, and how one was lost? His Omni-tool is broken, yet his communicator is working just fine. Remind you of someone?

Oh Bioware, you so crafty.

Do you know if there's a public extranet terminal around here?  My omni-tool's been broken for an eternity.

See?  But I just haven't gotten to that part to tell you that.  But I knew there was something up about that guy

[acidic-ph0]

Ithurael wrote...

acidic-ph0 wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

when did the reapers really lie? They were really very honest with us and quite blunt. The reapers never came across as outright deceptive - which I must say was one of my fav qualities about them.

Ummm... I believe Indoctrination is an insidious and deceptive tactic that the reapers have pretty much perfected. In fact deception is their primary (and most effective) weapon against every cycle. So yeah, they have every reason to subtly corrupt your ways of thinking down to your very core moral beliefs. Pretty much every character (in the games, books...etc) who listens to a Reaper and begins to agree with its thinking and methodology has been indoctrinated. See where I'm going with this? XD

Harvesting species is a lot easier when you can manipulate them into thinking that what you're doing is "for the best".

indoctrination =/= lying.

Indoctrination is a process not a lie. I was looking for an example of the reapers being outright deceptive in what they conveyed. The badger provided a sufficient enough example. I haven't played ME3 since levy tbh. the ending still kinda hurts a bit.

Do the reapers outright lie? Like saying Red is Blue, 1+1=3...etc? No. So you are correct about that.

But do they make you lie to yourself via indoctrination? Yes! And that is much, MUCH more deceptive than just telling a blatant lie. So that's the point that I'm trying to make. 

So yeah, the Reapers will "lie" to you by making you believe something is true but obviously isn't... Like telling you that synthesis is the best thing ever because reasons! 

[CmdrShep80]

Ok well, I'm going to dive in a couple more hours of Omega and see what else I find. No that won't mean I'm done. It'll just mean I'm on hour 4 by the time I'm done lol

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

Hanar I mean I ment he sound just like Harbinger.

Harbinger in ME2 was always mysterious. Never showing his true face until the end. He was always rather planning ahead, but failed due to Shepard's squad, the Normandy, help he/she got, and him/herself. Harbinger is introduce as " Who the hell is this guy" at the end of ME2. You know that he is a Reaper at the end, or did you not catch on. I didn't until they showed us that he was a Reaper.

I already figured out that Harbinger was a reaper himself rather fast. It was kinda obvious the way he talked.

Also we know Harbinger is the oldest Reaper/ first. Check.

True.

We know that he is leading the attack on Earth. Check.

Well, leading? That's not specifically said. He is there though.

We know that somebody has been into Shepard's mind because there is no way in hell a Reaper, or Harbinger would just take the form of a random child that looks like the 1 that died on Earth.

And here is where you are wrong and go into speculation-mode.

The Catalyst clearly says he's not a reaper, he's an AI ruling over the reapers. He created the reapers. He also created Harbinger. Big difference.

To believe otherwise is to flatout deny everything the Catalyst says. You can believe that the Catalyst is lying, sure, but I have no reason to believe the Catalyst is flatout lying. Maybe a double-agenda, sure, but he does not seem to be the type to flatout lie.

It's also rather unlikely that the Catalyst would tell the exact same lies as the Leviathans, as they are currently completely unrelated to each other. So the only way to explain why the Catalyst says the exact same things as the Leviathans is to accept that they're both telling the truth.

We also know that Harbinger wanted Shepard's mind. Hence what Control could really mean. You do loose your body, but your mind is Harbinger now. Yes Hanar EC, but just shut up and listen.

The EC indeed shows Shepard is not Harbinger, he is the new Catalyst. Big difference.

Harbinger talks about Shepard to the other Reapers.

Harbinger in arrival ( Yes Hanar but Arrival is dlc, and yes but clamp up) wants Shepard alive. He had this 1 chance to kill Shepard right there, but didn't. Makes no sense unless he wanted to Indoctrinate Shepard. Also it appers that Harbinger is talking in Shepard's mind.

And how could he have killed Shepard there? The harbinger we saw was a HOLOGRAM. Holograms can't kill my friend. 

Or are you talking about the final mission on earth? Well, Harbinger did just shoot Shepard and Shepard does lie unconcious on the ground. Maybe Harbinger, being the overconfident reaper that he is, just assumed he succesfull killed Shepard and moved on. That seems like the most reasonable explanation to me with the least amount of assumptions to be made.

If you notice while playing it. Harbinger is trash talking to Shepard, but when Shepard can't take it anymore, he/she passes out. Then you see Kenson being assumed direct Controled by Harbinger.

You can hear her voice, but a mixture of Harbingers voice. Now take the Catalyst for example. The voice of the child, and both Male, and fem Shepard's voices. If Bioware had Harbinger's voice actor speak, don't you think that would give IT away. Also in arrival, it is proven that Shepard can have visons, so if you take the EC epilogue for example, it's all a vison.

But when you have to explain why Shepard would get a vision in the High EMS Destroy ending, where Shepard supossedly breaks free from the indoctrination. It doesn't add up.

Now again your going to say( Hello Dlc), but you forget that the ending is made up of Shepard's memeorys. Even though Shepard never did the dlc's, she/he was suppost to.

That is absolutely nonsense. If Shepard didn't do the DLCs, he didn't do it. Period. The narrative acknowledges that Shepard didn't do the DLC and the narrative adapts, telling us that other squads instead did the job.

In a sense the dlc actually help explain the ending's, yet people like you write them off as ( well since they are not on the disk/ it's optinal to get it.." Ya I get it, but Bioware really wanted you to play them. If you notice the ending*, Cerberus, Kai Leng, Sanders, and so much more make no sense, unless you played the dlc's, read the comics, and the novals.

You get a better background in ME3.

Yes, you get a better background of the story if you've played the DLC, but that's about it. The DLC are still OPTIONAL and the game narratives changes if you didn't do the DLCs. That's just a fact.

[Rifneno]

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

OH SNAP.

You know you were talking about the two Omega soldiers talking via communicator, and how one was lost? His Omni-tool is broken, yet his communicator is working just fine. Remind you of someone?

Oh Bioware, you so crafty.

Do you know if there's a public extranet terminal around here?  My omni-tool's been broken for an eternity.

Well there is that, but I get the impression that since she's guiding him around he's not using an extranet terminal.  If they are even still open to public use during the occupation.

Still, gives me the vibe that someone knew what they were doing when they wrote that little tidbit.

What?  No, I was just quoting that miniquest in Afterlife's VIP area in ME2.  Why?  ...  Huh.  That's a good question.  Maybe I should start googling the stuff my doctor's giving me.

[ElSuperGecko]

Ithurael wrote...
indoctrination =/= lying.

Indoctrination is a process not a lie. I was looking for an example of the reapers being outright deceptive in what they conveyed. The badger provided a sufficient enough example. I haven't played ME3 since levy tbh. the ending still kinda hurts a bit.

Inviting world leaders into their superstructures for "peace talks"?

Although technically this isn't a lie, as once the said world leaders are indoctrinated...

[BansheeOwnage]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

I would imagine that the presumed "Citadel DLC" would be more "plot relevant" than Omega. Maybe even Leviathan! They have the opportunity to do some amazing things there, especially since all the ME3 writers are working on it.

As far as I know the DLC after the Citadel one is the one with all the writers. I believe the Citadel one is already done and being tested.

Apparently, the next DLC, which we've dubbed Citadel, is already in the QA phase and have had all the voice work done already, so the one with every writer is probably the one after that.

Even better! I hope it's released soon!

[BleedingUranium]

Rifneno wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Lovecraftian horror is stupid, especially in something as relatively grounded in reality as Mass Effect. Sovereign was just spewing crap to scare everyone, that was pretty obvious to me the first time I met him. Whether he actually believed it himself doesn't really matter.

Sovereign should have been named "Hubris".

No, I'm pretty sure Leviathan has the patent on Hubris.

Lovecraftian horror is one of the reasons Mass Effect was so good.  Pretty much any incomprehensible alien monster qualifies.  Alien and monster are pretty obvious, why's it unrealistic for an ancient malevolent starship from behind the stars to be beyond our piddly human comprehension?

I'm not against things being super advanced and such, but I am against the idea that he can't know something. Everything is theoretically knowable.

[byne]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

OH SNAP.

You know you were talking about the two Omega soldiers talking via communicator, and how one was lost? His Omni-tool is broken, yet his communicator is working just fine. Remind you of someone?

Oh Bioware, you so crafty.

Do you know if there's a public extranet terminal around here?  My omni-tool's been broken for an eternity.

Well there is that, but I get the impression that since she's guiding him around he's not using an extranet terminal.  If they are even still open to public use during the occupation.

Still, gives me the vibe that someone knew what they were doing when they wrote that little tidbit.

What?  No, I was just quoting that miniquest in Afterlife's VIP area in ME2.  Why?  ...  Huh.  That's a good question.  Maybe I should start googling the stuff my doctor's giving me.

Dont worry Rif. I understood the reference.

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

OH SNAP.

You know you were talking about the two Omega soldiers talking via communicator, and how one was lost? His Omni-tool is broken, yet his communicator is working just fine. Remind you of someone?

Oh Bioware, you so crafty.

Do you know if there's a public extranet terminal around here?  My omni-tool's been broken for an eternity.

Well there is that, but I get the impression that since she's guiding him around he's not using an extranet terminal.  If they are even still open to public use during the occupation.

Still, gives me the vibe that someone knew what they were doing when they wrote that little tidbit.

What?  No, I was just quoting that miniquest in Afterlife's VIP area in ME2.  Why?  ...  Huh.  That's a good question.  Maybe I should start googling the stuff my doctor's giving me.

My bad.  Though inadvertantly you did make me think about it for a moment.  Which is a good thing.