80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Happy ME1 year!

[RavenEyry]

BleedingUranium wrote...

And I'm an atheist  We have religious and non-religious people on both sides too.

We had a gay chap in here for a while too. We're a diverse bunch.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
And why is 'non-ITist' not a good label? It's the best label imo. 

Or how about 'aITist'?  Like atheist, where the 'a' in front of 'theist' means "no" or "non" ot "not a".

Being a devout Mormon, I wouldn't like the term they used to describe us as an equivilent of an atheist. Just thought I'd point this out.

And I'm an atheist  We have religious and non-religious people on both sides too.

Well, just like in here, everyone has their own interpretation on how everything came about in the real world.

[BatmanTurian]

a literalist takes things literally expecting no metaphors or symbolism so sorry that what you are pal. sowwy the twuth it hurts your little unique snowflake feewings. deal with it.

[RavenEyry]

BatmanTurian wrote...

a literalist takes things literally expecting no metaphors or symbolism so sorry that what you are pal. sowwy the twuth it hurts your little unique snowflake feewings. deal with it.

You can take a literal view of the ending without ignoring symbolism y'know.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Oh joy, Hanar your back. Allow me to repost an earlier comment of mine...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

I think Hanar is losing it.
He's starting to swear and insult more and more with every post as he runs out of things to back up his arguments with...
Just like your average Literalist.

Why are you trying to pick a fight?

Nahh that's not my style.
But when a person calls a group of people with there own ideas crazy or other things, they diserve a nip in the butt.
Besides, I'm on my iPod ATM so I can't really pick a fight if I wanted.

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

You are crazy. "Literalists" don't even exist. It's just a silly label you ITers have created to stick on everyone who doesn't agree with the IT to feel superior about yourself. I am not a literalist and I will not define myself as such, ever.
So yeah, continue beating up that strawman, I don't care. 

It's the easiest word to use even if it's not technically correct. We can't call you 'non-ITers' because that implies agreement or disagreement with us is the most important factor. When others have said they dislike the label 'literalist' they can't come up with anything better. If you can I'd be happy to use it.

And why is 'non-ITist' not a good label? It's the best label imo. 

Or how about 'aITist'?  Like atheist, where the 'a' in front of 'theist' means "no" or "non" ot "not a".

Because it assumes non-IT is default, while something like Literalist shows it as just another interpretation.

That's not really true. The lable 'non-ITist' simply states that the person is on the opposite side of the table regarding the IT. He/she doesn't believe in the IT.

Same way as atheist is simply a label that states the person is on the opposite side regarding belief in god. An atheist doesn't believe in god and in some cases can even be against a belief in god (like some non-ITists are against the IT).

That said: Isn't it pretty much a fact that both atheism and non-ITism are the defaults?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 29 novembre 2012 - 03:32 .

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

a literalist takes things literally expecting no metaphors or symbolism so sorry that what you are pal. sowwy the twuth it hurts your little unique snowflake feewings. deal with it.

You can take a literal view of the ending without ignoring symbolism y'know.

What Raven says.

You ITists look at things waaaaaaaaaay to black-and-white. There are shades of grey you know. Raven has the right idea. He understands.

[BatmanTurian]

yeah i know Raven. I meant the endings in context. Anyway I'm out for the day.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

You are crazy. "Literalists" don't even exist. It's just a silly label you ITers have created to stick on everyone who doesn't agree with the IT to feel superior about yourself. I am not a literalist and I will not define myself as such, ever.
So yeah, continue beating up that strawman, I don't care. 

It's the easiest word to use even if it's not technically correct. We can't call you 'non-ITers' because that implies agreement or disagreement with us is the most important factor. When others have said they dislike the label 'literalist' they can't come up with anything better. If you can I'd be happy to use it.

And why is 'non-ITist' not a good label? It's the best label imo. 

Or how about 'aITist'?  Like atheist, where the 'a' in front of 'theist' means "no" or "non" ot "not a".

Because it assumes non-IT is default, while something like Literalist shows it as just another interpretation.

That's not really true. The lable 'non-ITist' simply states that the person is on the opposite side of the table regarding the IT. He/she doesn't believe in the IT.

Same way as atheist is simply a label that states the person is on the opposite side regarding belief in god. An atheist doesn't believe in god and in some cases can even be against a belief in god (like some non-ITists are against the IT).

That said: Isn't it pretty much a fact that both atheism and non-ITism are the defaults?

Not necessarily a fact. Examples: I believe in Adam and Eve and they were very devout followers of God (minus the Fruit on Knowledge incident) & Bleeding Uraniun stated that he thought IT his first playthrough so to him IT is default since that was his first impression.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

a literalist takes things literally expecting no metaphors or symbolism so sorry that what you are pal. sowwy the twuth it hurts your little unique snowflake feewings. deal with it.

You can take a literal view of the ending without ignoring symbolism y'know.

What Raven says.

You ITists look at things waaaaaaaaaay to black-and-white. There are shades of grey you know. Raven has the right idea. He understands.

"It's easy to see the world in black and white. Grey...I don't know what to do with grey." -Garrus Vakarian

[dreamgazer]

Literary interpretation != religion.

[dreamgazer]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

You ITists look at things waaaaaaaaaay to black-and-white. There are shades of grey you know.

Agreed, but isn't that what happens when people just dismiss things as "bad writing"?

[Restrider]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Because it assumes non-IT is default, while something like Literalist shows it as just another interpretation.

That's not really true. The lable 'non-ITist' simply states that the person is on the opposite side of the table regarding the IT. He/she doesn't believe in the IT.

Same way as atheist is simply a label that states the person is on the opposite side regarding belief in god. An atheist doesn't believe in god and in some cases can even be against a belief in god (like some non-ITists are against the IT).

That said: Isn't it pretty much a fact that both atheism and non-ITism are the defaults?

Come on, we all know that regarding IT and religious belief being an agnostic is the best solution!
Disclaimer: I do not intend to offend anyone with this and it was meat in a joking way.

Modifié par Restrider, 29 novembre 2012 - 03:53 .

[paxxton]

I'm replaying Virmire atm and something struck me so hard I could not wait with sharing it. The Mass Relay Technology has an inherent property. All mass relays send out indoctrination signal! I've gotten an irrefutable proof for that. While on the Citadel Kaidan mentions that the hum coming out of the minirelay makes his teeth tingle. We all know that a hum is a sign of indoctrination. What he says can be correlated with what Rana Thanoptis says about the indoctrination signal emitted by Sovereign. She says that it causes a tingle in the back of a victim's skull. The key word here is "tingle."

Modifié par paxxton, 29 novembre 2012 - 04:01 .

[Restrider]

BTW:
I think - as spotlessvoid usually states - IT and pro-Destroy may overlap, but IT is not necessarily pro-Destroy. Arashi has summed up how IT could let Synthesis and Control endings (maybe even Refuse) continue the narrative. This has been stated several times throughout the thread.

[KyreneZA]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Are you guys arguing this from a literal perspective? Because then I'd agree, but what you're saying doesn't apply to IT.

Yeah I was saying how literal refuse makes no sense as an option and Raistlin was pointing out how literal destroy is also baffling.

And this is without getting into the effects once it's chosen.

How is literal destroy baffling?

AI created to prevent synthetics from killing organics, also says itself that its purpose is to preserve all Organic and Synthetic species...offers you choice to destroy all synthetics including all the supposedly preserved races...but makes sure to point out that it will not end the cycle in any way and the nightmare will come again.

In short not only is it allowing something to happen which will go against its core programming (since the cycle of Synthetics killing organics will not end) but also something which will destroy every single one of the species its cliams it is its purpose to preserve.

The current solution doesn't work anymore, but it can't stop the Cycle on its own.

Except it clearly does because Refuse.

Well we can't say the current cycle continuing in Refuse is an indication of either. The solution might not be working, but since there's nobody to stand up to and stop the Reapers it still continues by virtue of how unstoppable the Reapers are.

All of it is horse**** though. An AI is by very definition self-aware, and cannot NOT alter it's parameters. Unless it is somehow shackled, like some ****ed up version of Aasimov's laws of robotics.
1. Thou shalt only preserve life if that life cannot threaten thyne superiority.
2. Thou shalt replicate thyself from the DNA of any life that can threaten thyne supperiority.
3. When thyne life is in peril ignore rule 1 & 2.

[Restrider]

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying Virmire atm and something struck me so hard I could not wait with sharing it. The Mass Relay Technology has an inherent property. All mass relays send out indoctrination signal! I've gotten an irrefutable proof for that. While on the Citadel Kaidan mentions that the hum coming out of the minirelay makes his teeth tingle. We all know that a hum is a sign of indoctrination. What he says can be correlated with what Rana Thanoptis says about the indoctrination signal emitted by Sovereign. She says that it cause a tingle in the back of a victim's skull. The key word here is "tingle."

I usually get a tingle in the back of my skull when listening to great music... crap, that's me in a few days:

[Hanako Ikezawa]

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying Virmire atm and something struck me so hard I could not wait with sharing it. The Mass Relay Technology has an inherent property. All mass relays send out indoctrination signal! I've gotten an irrefutable proof for that. While on the Citadel Kaidan mentions that the hum coming out of the minirelay makes his teeth tingle. We all know that a hum is a sign of indoctrination. What he says can be correlated with what Rana Thanoptis says about the indoctrination signal emitted by Sovereign. She says that it cause a tingle in the back of a victim's skull. The key word here is "tingle."

Hate to tell you this, but all technology hums when it is active (it only appears off because the Ilos side is out of power) and if it has a high enough EMF, it can cause sensations like teeth tingling or symptoms similar to indoctrination, like paranoia. if Mass Relays were capable of indoctrinating, then the harvests would be even easier since everyone who uses Mass Relays would be indoctrinated.

[paxxton]

Cover your ears now!

[RavenEyry]

The citadel has an odd calming affect and possible a 'reapers aren't a threat' message somewhere but it doesn't indoctrinate or there'd be reaper mindslaves everywhere.

[paxxton]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying Virmire atm and something struck me so hard I could not wait with sharing it. The Mass Relay Technology has an inherent property. All mass relays send out indoctrination signal! I've gotten an irrefutable proof for that. While on the Citadel Kaidan mentions that the hum coming out of the minirelay makes his teeth tingle. We all know that a hum is a sign of indoctrination. What he says can be correlated with what Rana Thanoptis says about the indoctrination signal emitted by Sovereign. She says that it cause a tingle in the back of a victim's skull. The key word here is "tingle."

Hate to tell you this, but all technology hums when it is active (it only appears off because the Ilos side is out of power) and if it has a high enough EMF, it can cause sensations like teeth tingling or symptoms similar to indoctrination, like paranoia. if Mass Relays were capable of indoctrinating, then the harvests would be even easier since everyone who uses Mass Relays would be indoctrinated.

I know the physics of that. But the field has to cover a vast space so it's only natural that the indoctrination is overally very weak. Just to persuade Organics to use the relays, populate the Citadel etc. Near the relays indoctrination is trong (the Citadel), but if a whole system is influenced only by a single relay, indoctrination is very very subtle.

[The Heretic of Time]

dreamgazer wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

You ITists look at things waaaaaaaaaay to black-and-white. There are shades of grey you know.

Agreed, but isn't that what happens when people just dismiss things as "bad writing"?

Is it? I think it's a matter of perspective.

You might see "bad writing" as an easy excuse for all the plotholes and weirdness going on in ME3.
But I see the IT as a cheap method of justifying all the plotholes and weirdness going on in ME3.


It goes both ways and it's just a matter of perspective and preferences I suppose.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 29 novembre 2012 - 04:12 .

[dreamgazer]

RavenEyry wrote...

The citadel has an odd calming affect and possible a 'reapers aren't a threat' message somewhere but it doesn't indoctrinate or there'd be reaper mindslaves everywhere.

Yeah, this is something that'd be great to touch on in a piece of Citadel/Keeper DLC, though I'm sure the answer they'll cook up won't be as satisfying as the fans' headcanons.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

paxxton wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying Virmire atm and something struck me so hard I could not wait with sharing it. The Mass Relay Technology has an inherent property. All mass relays send out indoctrination signal! I've gotten an irrefutable proof for that. While on the Citadel Kaidan mentions that the hum coming out of the minirelay makes his teeth tingle. We all know that a hum is a sign of indoctrination. What he says can be correlated with what Rana Thanoptis says about the indoctrination signal emitted by Sovereign. She says that it cause a tingle in the back of a victim's skull. The key word here is "tingle."

Hate to tell you this, but all technology hums when it is active (it only appears off because the Ilos side is out of power) and if it has a high enough EMF, it can cause sensations like teeth tingling or symptoms similar to indoctrination, like paranoia. if Mass Relays were capable of indoctrinating, then the harvests would be even easier since everyone who uses Mass Relays would be indoctrinated.

I know the physics of that. But the field has to cover a vast space so it's only natural that the indoctrination is overally very weak. Just to persuade Organics to use the relays, populate the Citadel etc. Near the relays indoctrination is trong (the Citadel), but if a whole system is influenced only by a single relay, indoctrination is very very subtle.

But that's what I'm saying. If being close to a relay is indocrinative, then why would the Reapers need to be stealthy about opening the citadel Relay when they can just have the galactic leaders order everyone to stand down and let the Reapers just march on through?