80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm replaying Virmire atm and something struck me so hard I could not wait with sharing it. The Mass Relay Technology has an inherent property. All mass relays send out indoctrination signal! I've gotten an irrefutable proof for that. While on the Citadel Kaidan mentions that the hum coming out of the minirelay makes his teeth tingle. We all know that a hum is a sign of indoctrination. What he says can be correlated with what Rana Thanoptis says about the indoctrination signal emitted by Sovereign. She says that it cause a tingle in the back of a victim's skull. The key word here is "tingle."

Hate to tell you this, but all technology hums when it is active (it only appears off because the Ilos side is out of power) and if it has a high enough EMF, it can cause sensations like teeth tingling or symptoms similar to indoctrination, like paranoia. if Mass Relays were capable of indoctrinating, then the harvests would be even easier since everyone who uses Mass Relays would be indoctrinated.

and who created mass relays?  The reapers.  What you said actually would help them advance their agenda and not kill the poor indoctrinated people.  The codex again says that small subtle suggestions is better to keep the person alive than a quick and dirty takeover. If you do that the person becomes a vegetable and becomes useless. 
By the way the IIlos side was never meant to connect to the citadel relay. The Protheans either took a standing relay on Illos and made it redirect to the citadel or hand built a relay then force connected to the citadel. They couldn't have done this in any way at the citadel because they were doing all this in the middle of their cycle's reaper harvest.  They went to the citadel after all the reapers went back to dark space
Also we've never actually stood next to a relay. The only relay we've ever stood next to for extended periods of time is the citadel. All the others we fly through via ships.

When I say Citadel Relay, I meant the Relay Monument one, not the "goes into dark space" one. You stated the Relay's purpose for the Reaper cause, to guide the galavtic races "on the paths we desire". This doesn't have to be indoctrination, which also cannot be suppressed according to Saren's research on Virmire so by now all galactic leaders would be mindless husks since they spent years on the mother of all relays, going beyond the expectancy of usefullness even from slow indoctrination.
...
...
...although, if the Catalyst realized this, he would shut himself down until the cycle was ready to begin and would need something to turn him back on. I think we just answered the "Why did Sovereign need to go to the Citadel in ME1" plothole!

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 29 novembre 2012 - 05:44 .

[CmdrShep80]

And how we know the citadel is not a processor ship:

From the harvest codex again:
The processor ships reduce victims to a transportable liquid. Like in a slaughterhouse, the ships' design prevents victims from seeing or hearing what happens elsewhere so that they do not panic. The victims are ushered into locking pods, then rent apart and dissolved into paste that is flushed to storage vats.

The rate of killing is phenomenal. Intelligence estimates suggest there are more than 400 processor ships on Earth, killing approximately 1.86 million humans per day. In combination with battlefield deaths, disease, and famine, this pace will result in the complete depopulation of Earth within a decade. As the husks and indoctrinated slaves build more slaughtering facilities, the kill rate can only increase.

[BatmanTurian]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

"Once is bad luck.  Twice is coincidence.  Three times is enemy action."

There's also a Sherlock Holmes quote along the lines of "How many coincidences does it take to make a pattern?"

"There is no coincidence, only inevitability." -Yuko Ichihara from xxxholic

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?


Sherlock Holmes Chap. 6, p. 111 The Sign of the Four (1890)

EDIT: yes, I finally have my laptop back.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 29 novembre 2012 - 05:44 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Happy ME2 year!

[Andromidius]

Sovereign was there to open the Relay, not turn on the Catalyst. There's nothing to suggest otherwise, and why would you even NEED the Catalyst when the plan was to open the Relay and let all the Reapers in?

[CmdrShep80]

@darth revan I was also talking about the monument relay. There are several smaller relays floating around the citadel too.

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 29 novembre 2012 - 05:46 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BatmanTurian wrote...
How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?


Sherlock Holmes Chap. 6, p. 111 The Sign of the Four (1890)

EDIT: yes, I finally have my laptop back.

One of my favorite Shelock Holmes's quotes.

[Eryri]

Aye up IT folks. My internet decided to go on the fritz right on Omega's release day, and there is no way I'm going through 50 pages. I get the impression it's fun combat-wise but fairly inconsequential regarding story? Am I better off waiting for an Origin sale?

[BatmanTurian]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?


Sherlock Holmes Chap. 6, p. 111 The Sign of the Four (1890)

EDIT: yes, I finally have my laptop back.

One of my favorite Shelock Holmes's quotes.

Part of the basis of why I agree with some form of the IT.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Andromidius wrote...

Sovereign was there to open the Relay, not turn on the Catalyst. There's nothing to suggest otherwise, and why would you even NEED the Catalyst when the plan was to open the Relay and let all the Reapers in?

Well, Sovereign had to activate the Citadel, and the Citadel is "part of me. It is my home." of the Catalyst so I would assume turning on one would turn on the other since they are basically one and the same.

[CmdrShep80]

Eryri wrote...

Aye up IT folks. My internet decided to go on the fritz right on Omega's release day, and there is no way I'm going through 50 pages. I get the impression it's fun combat-wise but fairly inconsequential regarding story? Am I better off waiting for an Origin sale?

even if you had Internet there was already 50 pages to go through on the same day. I seem to be in the minority about the story. I'm thoroughly enjoying the storyline

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Sovereign was there to open the Relay, not turn on the Catalyst. There's nothing to suggest otherwise, and why would you even NEED the Catalyst when the plan was to open the Relay and let all the Reapers in?

Well, Sovereign had to activate the Citadel, and the Citadel is "part of me. It is my home." of the Catalyst so I would assume turning on one would turn on the other since they are basically one and the same.

Not quite true. Sovereign was going to activate the Citadel relay, which is a part of the Citadel. The Citadel is always active, at least during a ccyle, it is the Relay part that needed to be activated. In short by any logic, especially considering the Dark Space relay was never activated, the Catalyst was there the entire time during Sovereigns attack and aware of wht was going on.

And who uploads an AI into a space stations systems, especially a space station as crucial to your plans as the Citadel and dosent give it access to any systems...well except shutting down the Crucible, the creation not made by you.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?


Sherlock Holmes Chap. 6, p. 111 The Sign of the Four (1890)

EDIT: yes, I finally have my laptop back.

One of my favorite Shelock Holmes's quotes.

Part of the basis of why I agree with some form of the IT.

I'll admit, while I am a "literalist' for various reasons, I kind of see where IT is coming from and accept it, or at least parts of it, as a valid interpretation for those who support it even thoufh I personally don't.. That's why I come here, because it's something I'm not used to and the conversations on this thread are intriqueing.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:02 .

[Eryri]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

even if you had Internet there was already 50 pages to go through on the same day. I seem to be in the minority about the story. I'm thoroughly enjoying the storyline

OK. Thanks for the review. Good to know that the storyline is fun too. I think I'll wait until the DLC cycle is complete before getting it though. If they do an epic IT reveal, I'll celebrate by buying Omega, Leviathan, and maybe even one of those dodgy gun or outfit packs that must give EA something like 500% profit.

[spotlessvoid]

Vakarian-Fever wrote...

I definately subscribe to the Indoctrination theory from what little I have seen (you don't even need to see much for it to make sense). I never read too much into it for fear of running into spoilers from the first game. I'm a ps3 gamer so I have never played the first one yet. I was wondering if someone would be so kind as to explain it to me in more detail sans the spoilers please! I rarely check this site so email me on reasontolive@hotmail.co.uk or send me a message at my psn account nameless-account. Hopefully it will help me with my fan fic.

Check out page 1. Pretty hard to avoid spoilers though.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Sovereign was there to open the Relay, not turn on the Catalyst. There's nothing to suggest otherwise, and why would you even NEED the Catalyst when the plan was to open the Relay and let all the Reapers in?

Well, Sovereign had to activate the Citadel, and the Citadel is "part of me. It is my home." of the Catalyst so I would assume turning on one would turn on the other since they are basically one and the same.

Not quite true. Sovereign was going to activate the Citadel relay, which is a part of the Citadel. The Citadel is always active, at least during a ccyle, it is the Relay part that needed to be activated. In short by any logic, especially considering the Dark Space relay was never activated, the Catalyst was there the entire time during Sovereigns attack and aware of wht was going on.

And who uploads an AI into a space stations systems, especially a space station as crucial to your plans as the Citadel and dosent give it access to any systems...well except shutting down the Crucible, the creation not made by you.

Maybe since the Catalyst is the conciousness of the Reapers, and all but one of them were in standby, he doesn't have enough processing power from just the Vanguard and the Citadel to open the Relay himself, thus relied on the Vanguard, who is independent from this issue, to either broadcast the Keeper signal or do what Sovereign tries to do in ME1.

[The Heretic of Time]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Is it? I think it's a matter of perspective.

You might see "bad writing" as an easy excuse for all the plotholes and weirdness going on in ME3.
But I see the IT as a cheap method of justifying all the plotholes and weirdness going on in ME3.

It goes both ways and it's just a matter of perspective and preferences I suppose.

Sorry Hanar, but explaining away "all the plotholes and weirdness" in Mass Effect 3 with cynicism is a cop-out.  The "bad writing" argument is a cop out. 

Bad writing is not more or less of a cop-out than the IT is.

Bioware have created an incredibly rich and diverse universe with the Mass Effect series, and the vast majority of the writing throughout the series has been exceptional, at least in video gaming terms.  When taken as a whole, Mass Effect 3 is a well crafter, well written game.

Hahahahahaha.  No, just no. I do NOT agree with this at all! Mass Effect 3 is almost like a parody to Mass Effect. It's very hard for me to take ME3 seriously because there are so many thing in ME3 that I think are just extremely dumb. I'm not talking about the endings or other plotholes, but just plain horrible dumb stuff, such as how Kai Leng was portayed in ME3, how TIM was turned into Saren 2.0, how Derperus all of the sudden became the new Sith Empire and not to mention the incredibly nonsensical derp Citadel-coup plot. Goddamn that was silly!

Or how Tali became Admiral, what a joke! Or the way the VS keeps acting like a moron through the entire game. First he/she keeps nagging about how he/she can't trust Shepard, then he/she acts like a dumb puppet for Udina, totally clueless of what is really going on, even though it's absolutely obvious.

And I haven't even mentioned Wrex and Legion yet, two characters who did a complete 180 turn in ME3 and completely contradicted their ME2 beliefs. Wrex all of the sudden being hellbend on curing the genophage and Legion being hellbend on uploading the reaper code to the geth consensus. That's just stupid!

Shall I continue? Lets tall about the fact that the geth are so dumb that regardless of what you did in ME2, they always fall of the same reaper trap, AGAIN! The turning into willing slaves of the reapers once more is incredibly stupid! I'm glad I exterminated every single last one of those damn geth on Rannoch. After such a big amount of derp you simply do not deserve to live in my books.

Oh, talking about Rannoch: The quarians deciding to go to war with the geth right at the point when the reapers are literally on their doorstep! Yeaaaaaaaah that's totally not stupid now is it? Oh, the reapers are coming, that means it's totally the perfect time to go to war to retake our home world! Makes sense! NOT!

I can go on if you wish. How about the fact that all of the sudden Earth is the centre of the universe? How convenient that the Citadel, where we need to dock the Crucible, is now above earth! Well thanks a lot reapers, you just made it possible for us to liberate our homeplanet AND shut you down by docking the Crucible, all in one single massive attack! HOW CONVENIENT!  Thanks for that oppertunity my reaper homies!

Speaking of the Crucible and convenience: Don't you think it's a little too convenient that all of the sudden we find the Crucible blueprints on Mars right at the moment when the reapers are on our doorstep? Sorry, but we have the Mars archives for how many years? And we NEVER EVER heard of the Crucible until now right at the moment when the reapers come trashing our party? WOW, HOW CONVENIENT!  Wait wut, what is this Crucible anyway? Never heard of it before! Not in ME1, not in ME2, not once! But oh well, Liara thinks it will stop the reapers to lets spend ALL OUR RESOURCES on building this strange unknown device, even though we have no clue how the damn thing  works or what it's supposed to do. God, has the entire universe gone insane or something? Yeah, not bad writing at all! 


Alas, enough about this. I could go on like this forever, but I think I made my point rather clear. Lets continue with the rest of your post.

Bioware are telling a story with Mass Effect 3 - one that's designed to be open to interpretation.  What you see as plotholes and weirdness, others see as intentional clues and hints at a bigger picture from the writers.  I'm not saying that Bioware are above making mistakes, but if someone chooses to define anything and everything ambiguous within the game as "bad writing", then they're clearly missing something.

There is a fine line between ambiguous writing or just plain nonsense. I've read a lot of literature and I've played a lot of games with ambiguous plots. Mass Effect has never been an ambiguous series. It was always pretty damn straight-forward. Mass Effect is not the new H.P. Lovecraft of the 21st century, no, Mass Effect is more like the 21st century version of Star Wars. It's simple, straigh-forward pulp entertainment.

I could buy the idea that ME3 was supposed to be ambiguous if all the other dumb shit that I just summed up in this comment wasn't present in the game. But there is just so many retarded crap in ME3 that it's more likely to say the plotholes and weirdness are just a result of a poorly-planned out trilogy with a lot of hack writing in the final part.

  

When you're talking about a developer as capable, as respected and with as impressive a history as Bioware, at some point, it stops being "bad writing" and starts being deliberate. 

I've seen better companies than BioWare going down the drain after EA bought the company. BioWare wouldn't be the first company to fall from grace.

Not to mention the fact that BioWare has never done a trilogy like Mass Effect before. BioWare did a perfect job at creating individual stories, but it's clear that the Mass Effect project was too ambitious for them. They planned out this trilogy very poorly, and this is not just speculation, there are plenty of facts that prove the Mass Effect trilogy could have been planned better. One only has to look at the suicide mission of ME2. BioWare basically wrote themselves into a corner with ME2. They openly admitted that in an interview during the development of ME3. It's the reason why so many ME2 squad members are reduced to simple cameos in ME3. BioWare didn't have a choice. They had to do it this way because they wrote themselves in a corner with ME2.

This is just one example of BioWares poor planning capablities for this trilogy. And then there is the fact that their lead writer Drew left the party halfway the trilogy. Switching writers halfway a story is never a good idea. It is clear Mac Walters tried to take Mass Effect into a new direction when he got the job as new lead writer and I didn't like it one single bit. 

ME3 isn't a straightforward story.  They intended or us to think about the game, discuss and debate it.  They intended to give us things that didn't quite add up.  To make us suspicious.  It's up to us to try and put it all into context and make some sense of it.

Nonsense. ME3 is not ambiguous in the slightest bit until the ending madness. Up until that point it is pretty damn straight forward and sometimes even rather shallow and black-n-white. Cerberus turned into a cliché evil Sith Empire, TIM became a moustache-twirling cliché villain and eventually ended up being a Saren 2.0, how original and ambiguous! NOT! No, it's actually rather shallow and pathetic if you ask me. And then there is the Crucible, the biggest McGuffin ass-pull if I ever saw one. I'm okay with McGuffins (the one ring in LOTR is also a McGuffin), but the Crucible was just a big dumb ass-pull, nothing more. It literally came out of nowhere and during the entire game we have not even a clue what the damn thing is supposed to do! I think I'll declare the Crucible as the new king of the McGuffin ass-pulls.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:11 .

[paxxton]

ME2 page. Just wanted to leave my post here.

[spotlessvoid]

THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE?

You hate ME3 and hate IT, yet 9 months later you're still constantly on the bsn, especially the IT thread.

[The Heretic of Time]

spotlessvoid wrote...

THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE?

You hate ME3 and hate IT, yet 9 months later you're still constantly on the bsn, especially the IT thread.

Because I want to be here.

Since when are you only allowed on the BSN if you love ME3? That's nonsense. I have as much right to be here as anyone else. And I'm in no way obligated to justify my presence to you.

[spotlessvoid]

Creep

[Ithurael]

spotlessvoid wrote...

THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE?

You hate ME3 and hate IT, yet 9 months later you're still constantly on the bsn, especially the IT thread.

Lemons??

[dreamgazer]

spotlessvoid wrote...

THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE?

You hate ME3 and hate IT, yet 9 months later you're still constantly on the bsn, especially the IT thread.

He likes to discuss things, and have his opinion validated by his peers.  Not all that different from the others, really, and he makes valid points about the series' structure---though they're laced with his own bias and outlook.

And there will always be those who stir the isht with their opinions.  They stick around if they get the attention they desire.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:14 .

[Andromidius]

Glutton for punishment, and enjoys arguing.

Only two options really. Someone who wanted geniune enjoyment would have gone elsewhere a long time ago.

[The Heretic of Time]

dreamgazer wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE?

You hate ME3 and hate IT, yet 9 months later you're still constantly on the bsn, especially the IT thread.

He likes to discuss things, and have his opinion validated by his peers.  Not all that different from the others, really, and he makes valid points about the series' structure---though they're laced with his own bias and opinion.

And there will always be those who stir the isht with their opinions.  They stick around if they get the attention they desire.

*DING DING DING DING DING* We have a winner!