80611 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenEyry]

Will everyone stop trying to chase Hanar off? It makes you all look bad.

If you don't want to talk to him just ignore his posts.

[Andromidius]

Not trying to chase anyone off. I just want less flamebaiting and more geniune discussion.

[The Heretic of Time]

Andromidius wrote...

Not trying to chase anyone off. I just want less flamebaiting and more geniune discussion.

I think it's something we need to work on from both sides. It's not as if I deliberately try to turn a discussion into pointless arguing. It just... happens... Of course I don't know if the ITers want to start an argument with me. It sometimes does feel like that to be honest, when they simply dissmiss my points without even giving it a second thought.

Of course it's also rather frustrating when people only want to debate on their terms and not on mine. Whenever I bring up points regarding the Catalyst, Leviathan or the ending-slideshows, it gets handwaved away as "omg we don't care because we decided that it's not real lolz!"  You folks don't even consider what I'm actually saying, I get the feeling. It can be rather frustrating from time to time.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:55 .

[dorktainian]

there are that many opinions on IT out there, and that many people who have noticed things unrelated to IT per-se that surely discussion is a great thing......even when it means banging heads together.

I sometimes wonder if bioware is a bit peed off that so many of us realised it was indoctrination.

art my bottom

Modifié par dorktainian, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:59 .

[Wayning_Star]

Why is there so many posts about IT? Seems as if many are trying too hard to prove IT?

It's one of those things that cannot be proven OR disproven, so to argue about it's validity is just entertainment. Of sorts.

(booooo IT

[The Heretic of Time]

dorktainian wrote...

there are that many opinions on IT out there, and that many people who have noticed things unrelated to IT per-se that surely discussion is a great thing......even when it means banging heads together.

I sometimes wonder if bioware is a bit peed off that so many of us realised it was indoctrination.

art my bottom

Many? Well, there were indeed many people who jumped on the IT bandwagon back in the days before the EC, but after the EC a lot of people have left the IT bandwagon again. You guys are actually a pretty darn small minority right now.

[Wayning_Star]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

there are that many opinions on IT out there, and that many people who have noticed things unrelated to IT per-se that surely discussion is a great thing......even when it means banging heads together.

I sometimes wonder if bioware is a bit peed off that so many of us realised it was indoctrination.

art my bottom

Many? Well, there were indeed many people who jumped on the IT bandwagon back in the days before the EC, but after the EC a lot of people have left the IT bandwagon again. You guys are actually a pretty darn small minority right now.

I think biowarEa writers(kindof) liked the idea of IT, as it 'immersed' fans into an alternate concept of the ending. I can see where IT gets it's basis, what with all the 'fuzzy' stuff in Sheps noggin going on. But they've just overshot(imo)and as as a side note, alianated other players who plain don't want Shep being indoctrinated,nor forced into the destroy choice.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[dorktainian]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

there are that many opinions on IT out there, and that many people who have noticed things unrelated to IT per-se that surely discussion is a great thing......even when it means banging heads together.

I sometimes wonder if bioware is a bit peed off that so many of us realised it was indoctrination.

art my bottom

Many? Well, there were indeed many people who jumped on the IT bandwagon back in the days before the EC, but after the EC a lot of people have left the IT bandwagon again. You guys are actually a pretty darn small minority right now.

  :blink:and since you are interested I was one of the first who screamed indoctrination from the get...go.  Nothing i have seen has changed my mind.  The extended cut is just answering the same questions with the same answers.  Shepard still takes his breath.  Shepard still fights indoctrination.  Give me an answer for the unlimted ammo gun will ya?  can ya?  Nope.  didn't think so.  The wound in shepards side (shepard got shot in the shoulder by MS.  The wound in the same place as he shot anderson.  explaination?  there isnt one.....  The appearance of TIM?  the citadel and its moving changing parts?  star brat and his non-existance at the beginning of the game?  Synthesis?  Control?  ''Wake Up'' uttered by star brat?  Hackett communicating with shepard on the citadel?  The beam itself?  The crudible?  Oily shadows?  The dreams?  The hum on the normandy?  Coates?  Being able to breathe in space without a helmet?  EDI taking shep past the human reaper on Chronos Station?  Chronos Station itself?

We're not a minority.  We're the majority.  The overwhelming majority.  when shepard wakes up hear us cheer.

Modifié par dorktainian, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:14 .

[spotlessvoid]

This is thread is hopelessly naive sometimes. This guy is constantly belittling IT and it's supporters. He openly mocks you, even telling you he is, and yet many of you stick up for him. He makes a point of disagreeing with almost everything, going on and on about bad writing. He flames almost daily with tired old insults like comparing IT to a religion or implying that anyone who believes IT is cooking up some fantasy etc. He's openly trolled this thread on numerous occasions and is continuing to do so. That fact that he sees IT as stupid fanfic and it's supporters as fanatic and deluded oozes out of his posts constantly. His arguments rarely have any merit and he is intentionally inflammatory. He admits to being here to laugh at you. Yet many defend him. Go figure

[GethPrimeMKII]

RavenEyry wrote...

Will everyone stop trying to chase Hanar off? It makes you all look bad.

If you don't want to talk to him just ignore his posts.

I personally love it when Hanar posts here. The more posts I can write off as not worth reading, the easier it is to read my way to the most recent page. 

[RavenEyry]

Fighting dickishness with dickishness is not the answer.

[masster blaster]

Did anyone notice when that Joker was looking out the window where Shepard was at. Why didn't he call Shepard. His/her radio works, but nothing. Also why doesn't Shepard tell Hammer to come back, or why can't Anderson call Coats and say " I say again no retreat."

Also how does Hackett know Shepard is up on the Citadel at all.

Coats called it " Negative our intier force was decemated."

He even say: My god their all gone."

Yet Hackett get a field report that Shepard made it to the Citadel?

And EVEYbody fulled back to regoupe. Only Anderson could send a report to Hackett and it shouldn't be someone mad it to the Citadel.

Yet he doesn't because he follows Shepard up.

[dorktainian]

woah hang on a mo. i actually like his posts cos they are so ridiculous that he just makes himself look a right tool. Then again some of mine are the same. Bioware got us fighting amongst ourselves. damn you bioware.

[Restrider]

@Hanar:
What are your thoughts on the difference in EMS (as far as I know 1000EMS) when Anderson is not shot to death by TIM and has the last conversation with Shepard, to the scene where TIM shoots Anderson?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

there are that many opinions on IT out there, and that many people who have noticed things unrelated to IT per-se that surely discussion is a great thing......even when it means banging heads together.

I sometimes wonder if bioware is a bit peed off that so many of us realised it was indoctrination.

art my bottom

Many? Well, there were indeed many people who jumped on the IT bandwagon back in the days before the EC, but after the EC a lot of people have left the IT bandwagon again. You guys are actually a pretty darn small minority right now.

I think biowarEa writers(kindof) liked the idea of IT, as it 'immersed' fans into an alternate concept of the ending. I can see where IT gets it's basis, what with all the 'fuzzy' stuff in Sheps noggin going on. But they've just overshot(imo)and as as a side note, alianated other players who plain don't want Shep being indoctrinated,nor forced into the destroy choice.

I didnt want Legion, Thane or Mordin to die either, i didnt want to leave a squadmember on Virmire, but those happened anyway.

Player 'choice' in a narrative only extends as far as the writer lets it go and in my humble opinion the worst kind of writer is the one who always carters to what the Player or the Reader wants. Sure their opinions should be taken into consideration but only as far as the narrative supports it and one should most certainly not compromise ones major plans out of fear of what the reader might say.

Does this mean it is what happened, but Bioware planning to indoctrinate Shepard and then not going through with it is the worst kind of cattering I can think of, altering a major piece of what you had planned to fit some peoples views as Shepard beeing the Messiah or a Superhuman.

Fact is beyond his argumentations from ME2 Shepard is still very much human, especially in mind which they go to great lengths to tell us was never altered. He is just as vulnerable to Indoctrination as anyone else (Leviathan proved this beyond a shadow of doubt when Levithan trapped Shepard in his own mind without any visible effort.) and a prime subject for the Reapers who all but outright state their intention to break him in ME2 Arrival with the line, "Struggle as you will Shepard, you mind will be ours."

Also the IT is not just focused on Destroy, though it is the choice we consider "best." Refuse has quite a backing and I have personally along with several others presented ideas as to how Control and Synthesis is not immediate game overs through the use of EMS and special assets.

Prime idea from me is the Rahcni Queen which we know is resistant to Indoctrination and can interact with other living creatures mind. A possible reaction to Control / Synthesis is that the Queen saves Shepard by interacting with his mind, giving him the strength to break free. This would also give reason to Bioware´s quote prior to ME3's release stating the Rahcni would have a major role in the final battle.

But off course alot of people dont know about such parts of the Theory or even half the things in the theory itself because they never take the time to actually read up on what they are hating on. Not saying you or Heretic is like that, but alot of people could use reading up on this theory some more before posting their comments.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:34 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

dorktainian wrote...
 :blink:and since you are interested I was one of the first who screamed indoctrination from the get...go.  Nothing i have seen has changed my mind.  The extended cut is just answering the same questions with the same answers.  Shepard still takes his breath.  Shepard still fights indoctrination.  Give me an answer for the unlimted ammo gun will ya?  can ya?  Nope.  didn't think so.  The wound in shepards side (shepard got shot in the shoulder by MS.  The wound in the same place as he shot anderson.  explaination?  there isnt one.....  The appearance of TIM?  the citadel and its moving changing parts?  star brat and his non-existance at the beginning of the game?  Synthesis?  Control?  ''Wake Up'' uttered by star brat?  Hackett communicating with shepard on the citadel?  The beam itself?  The crudible?  Oily shadows?  The dreams?  The hum on the normandy?  Coates?  Being able to breathe in space without a helmet?  EDI taking shep past the human reaper on Chronos Station?  Chronos Station itself?

We're not a minority.  We're the majority.  The overwhelming majority.  when shepard wakes up hear us cheer.


Alright, let me try my hand in this:
1) I have to resort to video game logic since you don't fight any enemies after Marauder Shields and the Three Husketeers so you would be unable to pick up ammo for the important scenes if you fire your clip beforehand.
2)There is a jagged edge to Shepard's armor that is right next to the "Anderson" wound so  simply put Shepard got injured by it while struggling to break free of TIM.
3) TIM said on Chronos Station that "I already have what you're looking for" which Vendetta a few minutes later points out is the Citadel sdince it's the Catalyst to his knowledge so TIm was there for some time before you were.
4) Almost every machine has moving parts, and the Citadel is a space station and thus a machine.
5) Not the first time the main antagonist appears at the last minute, relatively speaking.
6 & 7) What about them?
8) Shepard was nearly unconcious so Catalyst wanted him to wake up.
9) Shepard has a communicator built into his head, as seen when he communicates without armor.
10) Transports human bodies into the Citadel to be processed.
11) It's a giant battery that gives the Catalyst options he didn't have previously.
12) Which ones? In the dream sequences or TIM confrontation?
13)What about the dreams?
14) Machines hum when active, and the Normandy is.
15)What about Coates?
16) The Citadel uses powerful Mass effect fields to hold an atmosphere. Look at the wards.
17) I don't remember what she says so tell me
18) It's Cerberus HQ. You saw it after you escaped the station Project Lazarus took place.

You're not over 50% of the fanbase, so you are a minority. A large minority, sure, but a minority nonetheless. 

[RavenEyry]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Fact is beyond his argumentations from ME2 Shepard is still very much human,

This gave me the image of Shepard's robot hand attacking them. I'm sorry, it's not what your post intended to convey but I can't help it.

[The Heretic of Time]

[quote]dorktainian wrote...

Nothing i have seen has changed my mind.  The extended cut is just answering the same questions with the same answers.
[/quote]

Not really. The EC tried to fix the messy endings of ME3 and it did a rather good job at it. The ME3 endings is still flawed and it still has holes, but I can actually look past the few holes that are left. EC did a very decent job at patching up the ME3 ending.


[quote]

 Shepard still takes his breath.  
[/quote]

So?

[quote]

Shepard still fights indoctrination.
[/quote]

Says you.


[quote]

 Give me an answer for the unlimted ammo gun will ya?  can ya?  Nope.  didn't think so.  
[/quote]

Oh yes I can: Gameplay and story segregation. Go look it up.



[quote]

The wound in shepards side (shepard got shot in the shoulder by MS.  The wound in the same place as he shot anderson.  explaination?  there isnt one.....
[/quote]

Yes there is. Shepard already had this wound even before he shot Anderson. Even before the marauder shot him.

The wound was obviously caused before Shepard stands up again. Other than that: it's just a wound. That's all there is to it. You're looking too much into it.


[quote]

 The appearance of TIM?
[/quote]

He implanted himself with reaper tech. We know this for a fact. It also explains his new control powers that he uses. It's also the cause of the "oily shadows" and the strange noise. It happens everytime TIM tries to take control over the situation with his new powers.


[quote]

 the citadel and its moving changing parts?  
[/quote]

So? The Citadel can't have moving parts? Sure it can.


[quote]

star brat and his non-existance at the beginning of the game?
[/quote]

Deus Ex Machina. Poor story telling in my opinion. BioWare did try to fix this with Leviathan. The Leviathan DLC finally gives us some foreshadowing on the identity of the Catalyst. Well, not just foreshadowing, te flat-out say exactly what the kid is. So it's not even subtile foreshadowing, it's actually rather obvious and straight in your face.


[quote]

 Synthesis?  Control?
[/quote]

What about them?


[quote]

 ''Wake Up'' uttered by star brat?
[/quote]

What about it?


[quote]

 Hackett communicating with shepard on the citadel?  
[/quote]

So?


[quote]

The beam itself?
[/quote]

What about it?


[quote]

 The crudible?
[/quote]

McGuffin ass-pull.


[quote]

 Oily shadows?
[/quote]

Caused by TIM.


[quote]

The dreams?
[/quote]

Terrible attempt at trying to make me give a f*ck about the kid. BioWare trying to make us feel emotional, trying to make us care. Except in my case, they failed.


[quote]

 The hum on the normandy?  
[/quote]

So? A lot of technology hums.


[quote]

Coates?
[/quote]

What about him?


[quote]

 Being able to breathe in space without a helmet?
[/quote]

You can also breath on the wards of the Citadel and they have no roofs either. This is because the Citadel has a Mass Effect field around it.


[quote]

 EDI taking shep past the human reaper on Chronos Station?  Chronos Station itself?
[/quote]

What about it?



[quote]

We're not a minority.  We're the majority.  The overwhelming majority.  when shepard wakes up hear us cheer.



[/quote]

Last time I checked the majority of BSN does not believe-in or support the IT. The vast majority. But sure, keep believing what you want to believe. I won't stop ya.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

RavenEyry wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Fact is beyond his argumentations from ME2 Shepard is still very much human,

This gave me the image of Shepard's robot hand attacking them. I'm sorry, it's not what your post intended to convey but I can't help it.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRyhUXjKOdXoEaib3xKECEUCYsgnl9bWtm_p90ji-7voOyjuam5Cg

[Restrider]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

there are that many opinions on IT out there, and that many people who have noticed things unrelated to IT per-se that surely discussion is a great thing......even when it means banging heads together.

I sometimes wonder if bioware is a bit peed off that so many of us realised it was indoctrination.

art my bottom

Many? Well, there were indeed many people who jumped on the IT bandwagon back in the days before the EC, but after the EC a lot of people have left the IT bandwagon again. You guys are actually a pretty darn small minority right now.

Not that small as it seems. According to the Census statistics it's about 20-25% think that ME3's is not to be taken literal. Of course this does not mean that these people believe in IT, but IT is the most popular non-literal interpretation.
Of course you could argue about sample size etc. (150-200 votes in the BSN) and I have to admit that it's just at first glance, since I still have to analyze and compile the data.
Furhtermore this Census was about what you believe and not what you want. There are a lot of comments/posts of people saying they'd like to believe in IT but have lost hope due to EC/whatever other reasons.
If IT turned out to be true, the support would be not that small (if we assume that BW's execution was good, though).

[dorktainian]

1. A gun with limitless ammo.
2. Oily shadows in sheps dreams.
3. The hum on board the normandy that vega hears.
4. The whole idea of constructing the crudible is just unbelievable.
5. Oily shadows when Shep confronts TIM.
6. The worst villain in the history of video gaming.... Kai Leng.
7. Cerberus....and moar cerberus.........and moar cerberus.....
8. Hackett is clearly indoctrinated.
9. Control & Synthesis are aborrent.
10. if indoctrination theory is false, then the ending is truly the worst ending of any game ever in the history of video gaming..... even after the EC.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Updated the OP of my thread with a ton of examples of what I mean. =)

[The Heretic of Time]

Restrider wrote...

@Hanar:
What are your thoughts on the difference in EMS (as far as I know 1000EMS) when Anderson is not shot to death by TIM and has the last conversation with Shepard, to the scene where TIM shoots Anderson?

Never really thought about it. I've always seen it as just a game-mechanic not really related to the story. I never really thought about why it is that your EMS effectively lowers with 1000 points when Anderson is shot by TIM. I'll give it some thought and see what my opinion is on this.