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[byne]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I still find it funny. Why does Bioware keep adding war assets? I mean the end is the end, and it's not like the assets will do anything.....

Unless.... The more assets we gather. The more we of a better chance we have winning at the battle at Earth.

Oh, it's that time of the day again?  I need to start leaving before the daily "we can win conventionally if we just had a bit more even though everyone ever says it's impossible" chat.

Shepard's made a career out of doing the impossible.

Maybe if we'd sunk all our resources into arming every ship with thanix cannons and giving them the armor and shields the Normandy has, as well as building more dreadnoughts, we'd have a small chance of defeating them conventionally, but we didnt. We built the Crucible.

[demersel]

So I finished Omega DLC yesterday - I find, that it is very much IT DLC. Maybe even more so than the Leviathan. There so many clues and themes played with in the DLC, that it is really mind blowing.
How do you guys feel?

Some key points
- Aria does not want your sqaud or normandy involved, it isn't and you successfully take back Omega. possible hint at traitor on the normandy subplot?
- Omega feels like being awake. (Of course it is personal opinion, and only to some point, very clearly makred point actually)
- Nyreen is clealry indoctrinaded in a sense that she is not thinking clearly - she is behaving paragon to the point of being a rumbling zealot. Aria appears to by thinking clearly but just as long as she have a clear objective and a firm understanding of what her goal is - She is however willing to go to the unthinkable extremes - this may be direct examples of what indoctrination affecting minds can look like - you will not be working directly and knowingly for the reapers, but instead your behavior will be streamlined into predictable patterns - reinforcing character traits and ailignemt to the point where you become a one dimensional character where everything you are can be summed up in one sentence, also reinforcing the idea that paragons are generally more vulnerable to this type of thing.
- Omega mission is also really a sample of what a direct confrontation with an enemy in this type of confict would look like - and is really a mirror to priority: earth, and given that it happens BEFORE in the story - this gives us some idea why some things happen in priority earth the way they do -
Omega is Take Omega Back.
Priority: London is Take Earth back.

Let's compare - you come in force, break through the enemy formation, crush behind the enemy lines in a small group, establish a contact with local resistance, set a forward base of operations, make an attack plan, defend your forward base of opperations from an attack, Push to a crucial goal, during with shepard get's separated and has to make a choice, make one final push to directly take out the leader of the enemy...
If you think about it - they are extremly similiar. exacpt the last part, wich we don't get at all in priority earth, and tha fact that what works for omega (given that it is afetr all more or less of a local conflict in a contained space) - should not work for earth, Earth should happen differently - but it doesn't! It happens just as omega does! It does not make any sense for things to happen that way on earth but they do! After Omega, there is a very real possiblity, that Priority London is the way it is, because this is what Shepard knows - this is what taking something back from the enemy looks to him, because of his first hand expirience. Even if it isn't - Omega gives us lot's of clues - sadly, when taking back something from an enemy that uses indoctrination, subliminal methods of control, etc - local populance is expendable and in most cases untrustforthy (especially the one that had extensive contact with the enemy) - compare Nyreen, and Anderson&Coats.
- positive examples to further trick the player at the end.
Nyreen as a positive example of an ally left behind enemy lines (in reality, think about it - this is what Anderson SHOULD have been like, after all the time spend near reapers, but he isn't which is very strange)
reactor choice, a positive example of refuse and inaction (which is really not true, but may apear that way for those who advocate refuse choice) - so later on in the mindgame ending - player will have more reasons to pich refuse - he now has a direct positive example of that choice in similiar situation (taking omega back - to take earth back), but in a very different conditions and context (which is where the trick is)

- Creberus uses subliminal messages and mind control via their porpoganda and broadcast screens. (and possible via something else) -
there are wierd oily like distortions on their porpoganda signs, the white noise on their broadcast contains message "Spreat the word - Sanctuary", and there is a weird distorted picture of three dark human-like silluettes

- Omega really suggests, that Illusive man, may not be the only one running cerberus. He is the one we know of, since he was the one we had direct contact with. After all Cerberus is called cerberus - a three headed watch dog on the gates of hell. what if cerberus is really a triumvirate kind of thing, and we just did not yet encountered the other two heads? Given the nature of their enemy it is very logical - if one of the heads becomes compromised - entire cerberus structure is build to counter that - entirely independed cells answering directly to a appointed curator.

- Eezo mining facility - that is a real goldmine - as far as i ca nremeber from the top of my head - this is actually the first time we get to see what raw eezo looks like and how the mining of it looks! And that is a huge thing! it looks exactly like the reapers and leviathans - which really gives straingh to suggestion that eezo is very much like Dune's spice - it is a by-product of life of on of these creatures. For all we know it could be fossilised remaines of leviathans, or even their manure.

[masster blaster]

Not what I was going Bandger. I was saying that. Why go all the way to add war assets, if we can't unlock anymore endings, since Bioware lowred the Destroy breath scene down to about 3400. I see no point. Even without dlc, or mp you have enough assets now to unlock all endings. That's just me though. I really don't think we can win on head on fight with the Reapers.
Badger.

Will we cause damage yes.

Major. No.
Minor. More likely.

[BleedingUranium]

SwobyJ wrote...

Exactly! We had our conversations and our choices, sometimes without even realizing it.

A large DLC/expansion/ME4(though I'm not on the side that thinks it'll be resolved in an entirely new game) would involve the results of those decisions and conversations, both in gameplay mechanic and in storytelling.

So far, with IT in consideration, I think that TIM knows that the Crucible is a wild goose chase (even if it has some use we either know or don't know of), and instead opted to 'rise above Reaper manipulations' (damn fool) by becoming an uber-Harbinger himself, with control over Reaper troops, the indoctrinated, and outright Capital Reapers.

If we get one last DLC to focus on this, it'll show that that's the ultimate goal and that with the bulk of the galaxy's forces (Reaper, synthetic, and organic) focused on Earth, he can press the red button on his plan. He never actually said what he believed the Catalyst to be. If the ending is a deception, then Shepard could be the Catalyst for a Reaper made by Harbinger, and TIM could be the Catalyst ("It's not that simple..") to his own built Reaper and Crucible.

What if, after Shepard wakes up and Harbinger's about to finish him off, ReaperTIM flies in and the two start fighting!

ReaperTIM would be white and orange with the Cerberus logo, and fire blue lasers

[masster blaster]

Byne crucible= Big giant f****** Dreadnought.

[demersel]

I am really torn with choices that are presented in Omega - first, the reacotr choice - for some reason it really want to shut this thing off, but i really can't see any downside to re-routing power.

And there is a matter of Petrovsky - i really can't decide whether to save him, or let Aria kill him. He is after all essentially the warden-of-auschwitz-kind-of-guy....

[byne]

Playing ME1 with the music at 0% is interesting.

Music still plays at important moments like the Spectre induction scene, and the lack of music anywhere but during important moments gives it more impact when there is music.

[BleedingUranium]

What if, either because he's in a shared dream with Harbinger, or by using the real Crucible, Shepard enters a Geth Consensus-type world, where he battles all of the past cycles' avatars.

It'd be like fighting Sovereign-controlled Saren, but of each Reaper. Each one you'd kill would kill its mind or cripple its real Reaper form, allowing for it to be finished off.

I think after successfully not picking systhesis, something they all did, it would be very fitting.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 30 novembre 2012 - 05:47 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Mother of God it's almost time...

Byne! Finger on the Post New Topic button!

[masster blaster]

You know when the starbringer says along the lines " Reapers don't want war. They are just doing their job. Harvesting."

Ya Harvesting sounds nice/ better than war. Not really it just shows that.

Shepard: But we are at war with the Reaper right now.

God child: What war? I see no war, but harvesting all organics life/ Synthetic life, even though I suck at my job because you and your friends have killed so many of my Reapers. That I tried so hard to preserve, and keep safe, even though I told Harbinger to kill anyone coming towards the beam, and right now my forces are killing everyone is space.


Hey that's a good one. Space battle. Reapers can't preserve life if the ships blow up. And if you think about how many people are on all ships...Ya thank you God child for preserveing us.

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 novembre 2012 - 05:54 .

[masster blaster]

Hey I found another one. The Destroy Reaper on Earth. The one Hammer fights. What does it do charge it's laser and kills everyone that is touched by the beam. Once again thank you starbringer for saving us all. Your not killing us, but your preserving us into Reapers/ husk.

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 novembre 2012 - 06:00 .

[BleedingUranium]

SwobyJ wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I still find it funny. Why does Bioware keep adding war assets? I mean the end is the end, and it's not like the assets will do anything.....

Unless.... The more assets we gather. The more we of a better chance we have winning at the battle at Earth.

Oh, it's that time of the day again?  I need to start leaving before the daily "we can win conventionally if we just had a bit more even though everyone ever says it's impossible" chat.

Shepard's made a career out of doing the impossible.

The story tells me, in a more abstract and personally interpretive manner, that Shepard won't defeat the Reapers alone. He's done the impossible, but also, never alone. Oh, except when he did stuff alone, it had very curious outcomes and stories happening there.

Ugh, this is hard to explain.

ME1 he only holds off the Reapers shocking the Citadel in a surprise attack.
This has the negative effect of drawing attention towards humanity and obtaining Shepard's mind/body dead or alive.
This has the positive effect of alerting certain characters and factions about the Reapers and to begin preparations for what is to come, even if most people ignore the threat. Before ME1, VERY few people knew of the Reapers and even fewer did anything about it, save for TIM and Saren, as far as we know.

ME2 he first ends the creation of a human Reaper, and then stalls the arrival of the Reapers by a few more months.
The negative result is that he draws very specific attention onto Earth and himself, with a focused Harvest onto Earth ASAP, and (as IT at least says) onto him as a fully intact and alive specimen, possibly for the purpose of installing onto a human Reaper as its chief consciousness.
This has the positive effect of setting up larger factions in the story (generally non-Citadel based) to step up to the plate when the time comes: geth, quarian, krogan, Alliance. The galaxy isn't ready for the invasion now, but at least parts of it know it will happen and that we need to be as ready as possible.

The big effect is of the characters we meet, causing massive ripples throughout the galaxy over time:
-For the Krogan and Turians --> Wrex, Mordin, Garrus, Grunt
-For the Citadel --> Kaidan/Ashley, Thane
-For the Geth and Quarians --> Tali, Legion
-For Cerberus (this cycle's 'traitors') counterweight --> Jacob, Miranda
-For the intelligence gathering and dissimination ops --> Liara
-For Mercs --> Zaeed, Aria
-For various other groups --> Samara (Justicars rallied after her mission, I believe), Kasumi (Hanar)

SOOOOOOO

In the IT sense, we have moved from a small team, to individuals scattered over the galaxy, to now giant factions concentrated throughout everything. What next?

A galaxy united. And it happens on Priority: Earth. All based on Shepard's actions.

So if a victory is going to happen, its not down to Shepard's immediate actions in one level, but the culmination of all previous actions, and I'm saying to not discount the effect he's had on pretty much everyone in the galaxy now.

It's not as simple as 'conventional victory' to me, but instead it is the 'rising up to the challenge that Shepard explains to them'. Shepard can only do so much. If he never helped Thane or Kirrahe, the Salarian council member would have died and you'd have lost their species maximum support. If he never helped Legion and Tali, there can never be peace between the sides (Legion has to help his people and Tali has to help convince them to stand down) and they can't join the final battle.

He's an enabler, either through charm or intimidation.

Where does that leave us? Thematically, I think that leaves things not with Shepard, but with the galaxy itself. Whether Shepard dies or not, I think in an IT story they will pick up the slack and finally figure things out for themselves. He was the anomaly that woke THEM up from their nightmare in order to face the real monsters, so even if Shep never wakes up, they'll take his earlier cue and find out SOMETHING.

I fully agree, I just felt like quoting Thane

What is Shepard? A catalyst; the Catalyst. That's what he's always been, the middleman who solves all the problems other people have, but that aren't really about him. From giving advice to random people and finding lost items for people on the Citadel, to curing the Genophage and making peace between the Geth and Quarians, Shepard's always been a catalyst.

That's why I think Shepard could be in ME4, even if his story is over. Shepard's story has been about him, Harbinger, and indoctrination. That ends at the breath scene. The rest will be everyone's story.

[demersel]

I guess i missed the party of discussing Omega....Oh, well..

[masster blaster]

Okay time for bed. Night guys.

[masster blaster]

Sorry dem, but I haven't played Omega yet.

[demersel]

SwobyJ - I really liked Omega because it gave me exaclty what i wanted - it was the "Ok, so something is off, and the nemy can really screw with your head, but you still have an actual very real war to fight with that said enemy." DLC.
your enemy can screw with your head schew his way right into your brain , so you woulnd't know right from wrong, real from unreal, friend from foe - but you still have to actually, physicly fight him regardless. And that is what i called Omega feels like being awake. It felt real it, felt important, it felt as though it was actually happening - it is like you come into a kingdom of blind men, and you can see. But it is really nice in the perspective that you have your own kingdon - where everyone is blind including yourself, and now that you have seen what it is like to be awake and seeing things clearly - you can possibly do it for yourself for your own battle.

[byne]

This video made me laugh.

Even Aria prefers FemShep.

[dorktainian]

i like the fact that actually...when you think about it there are absolutely loads of subliminal prompts throughout the game regarding IT. so many in fact that if you start a game and actually follow it through it becomes so obvious i'm really surprised that anyone can deny IT. me3 is sheps story. the story of indoctrination. the story from his perspective.

what if everything we see (as flagged) isnt quite leggit, and we are finally able to see ''the truth''?

[demersel]

What happens if you shut down the reactor? Do you get less war assets?