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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!

Débuté par byne , juil. 30 2012 07:09

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#55076
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:38

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

demersel wrote...

So who is the gendalf to our frodo in Mass Effect? And who is Sam?


Guess the closest to a Gandalf would be Anderson.

Sam though is defiently Garrus. There is no Shepard without Vakarian.


I think there's a few close connections that Bioware gives us, but the one that endures all games is Liara.

Other ME1 related ones (VS, Garrus, Tali) are there for us in case.

Or ME2 related ones (LIs mostly, if alive) might make a difference.

But yeah, but one is Liara, bolstered by VS, Garrus, and Tali, when you listen to their words in London.

A lot of it hinges on whether the evac scene is legit or not. I can't believe they'd leave him behind.

#55077
demersel
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:38

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

demersel wrote...

So who is the gendalf to our frodo in Mass Effect? And who is Sam?


Guess the closest to a Gandalf would be Anderson.

Sam though is defiently Garrus. There is no Shepard without Vakarian.


It is interesting, cause Garrus is the one woh makes most comments about Shepard's mental health and who seems to guide him the most. And Gendalf was the one who was tempted and who ultimatly died because of that (or leveled up - whatever you call it)

But there is one thing that Garrus says - that really worries me - there is a scene where he and Javik converse with a young normandy crewman in the lounge - and garrus makes a speach about reapers - the crewmen comments on how garrus almost seem to admire them, and garrus replies that he only respects their streigns - that is really creepy, cause i think it is almost word for word the same speach about the reapers that illusive man gave you in ME2. 

#55078
demersel
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:41

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SwobyJ wrote...

It's really just the hero archetypes into one, and given a military and sci-fi bent for Shep.


hm... interesting... It could mean that Shepard is all three combined at the same time  - a mentor, a warrior, and a hero. 

#55079
demersel
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:42

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I really feel that in the next ME game Omega will be a very big deal - Aria's speech at the end really sets it up.

#55080
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:44

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This also makes me consider the Leviathans...

I wonder if, in some way (the Hero's Journey way, I mean):

1)Harbinger is Sauron formerly of the Maiur (the demi gods, wizards of LOTR, like Gandalf was)

2)The other Reapers are Nazgul, corrupted and indoctrinated creatures, formerly men

3)Leviathans are collectively, Melkor (read lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Melkor It's interesting..) formerly of the Ainur (the near gods of the LOTR story)

4)So... what if the Leviathans, or their ancestors, are offshoots of another race/larger faction of beings?

Is that what lies outside the Milky Way? Is the Milky Way but a petri dish in the larger cosmic story?

#55081
spotlessvoid
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:47

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I typically go pargon, unless it's stupid. But I noticed Omega drawing the renegade out of me. I offed him. Sometimes you don't get a second chance.

#55082
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:48

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demersel wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

demersel wrote...

So who is the gendalf to our frodo in Mass Effect? And who is Sam?


Guess the closest to a Gandalf would be Anderson.

Sam though is defiently Garrus. There is no Shepard without Vakarian.


It is interesting, cause Garrus is the one woh makes most comments about Shepard's mental health and who seems to guide him the most. And Gendalf was the one who was tempted and who ultimatly died because of that (or leveled up - whatever you call it)

But there is one thing that Garrus says - that really worries me - there is a scene where he and Javik converse with a young normandy crewman in the lounge - and garrus makes a speach about reapers - the crewmen comments on how garrus almost seem to admire them, and garrus replies that he only respects their streigns - that is really creepy, cause i think it is almost word for word the same speach about the reapers that illusive man gave you in ME2. 


A lot of people consider Garrus to be the Shepard that never happened (not Saren).

Garrus never got a head start to face the threat of the Reapers, nor did he collect allies to stop them.

But what if the Citadel got attacked (no Shepard in this story) and Garrus got away?

I can imagine him as this cycle's Shepard. Asari may be the best 'evolutionarily managed' (imo, based on personal ideas) of this cycle, but the Turians are the ones who keep standing up and presenting themselves as worthy of the Reaper's attention so....

Yes. I think Garrus has Paragon and Renegade points and he would have been the Shepard of this cycle (assuming that's how it works), if the wild card of humanity never arrived.

#55083
demersel
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:50

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spotlessvoid wrote...

I typically go pargon, unless it's stupid. But I noticed Omega drawing the renegade out of me. I offed him. Sometimes you don't get a second chance.


+1
that is what i thought to... Omega drew the renegade out of me. 

#55084
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:50

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And yes, there is a Shepard without Vakarian. They give you that option in ME1, where you can ignore him after meeting him the first time, and especially in ME2 where he can die in the end.

One can play the series with only:
-meeting him on Citadel
-recruiting him on Omega and then ignoring him
-having him die on Collector Base

Compare that to Liara:
-you have to recruit her in ME1, even if it may be late in the story, and she must interpret your visions after every main mission after that
-she is present in ME2 but a limited one without DLC, I give you that
-but then she has a fully fledged DLC devoted to her, and to her connection to you
-she is recruited early in ME3 and constantly appears with Shepard

#55085
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:53

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I see Garrus and Tali as more the Gimli and Legolas (don't give me that look!), in that they're the close allies that fill up the ally roster, yet are also tight enough that they're worthy of a story focus, enough that they're allowed into the West along with the other big heroes of LOTR.

#55086
BleedingUranium
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:56

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demersel wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I typically go pargon, unless it's stupid. But I noticed Omega drawing the renegade out of me. I offed him. Sometimes you don't get a second chance.


+1
that is what i thought to... Omega drew the renegade out of me. 


For me it was the opposite. I pick whatever I feel should say or do regardless of whether it's paragon or renegade. This usually gets me about 65% paragon / 35% renegade, but I don't think I picked a single renegade anything in Omega, except for two interupts: shooting the camera and the first at the end to threaten Petrovsky, but not kill him.

#55087
MaximizedAction
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:57

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Somewhere in dark space, there lies Thangorodrim.

If the Leviathans are Melkors then they sure seem retired or banned from doing their deed.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 30 novembre 2012 - 07:57 .

#55088
BleedingUranium
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 07:58

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SwobyJ wrote...

I see Garrus and Tali as more the Gimli and Legolas (don't give me that look!), in that they're the close allies that fill up the ally roster, yet are also tight enough that they're worthy of a story focus, enough that they're allowed into the West along with the other big heroes of LOTR.


That's a great analogy, actually. I like the TIM = Gollum one too, I don't know why I never thought of that. That's pretty much how I want TIM to go out, too.

#55089
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:00

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MaximizedAction wrote...

Somewhere in dark space, there lies Thangorodrim.

If the Leviathans are Melkors then they sure seem retired or banned from doing their deed.


I agree :), except in this case, I more feel the Reapers/Harbinger is keeping them from exposing themselves, but they also have all the time in the world to figure out how exactly to overthrow them while setting themselves up in an ideal position to take over the galaxy.

imo

#55090
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:02

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BleedingUranium wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

I see Garrus and Tali as more the Gimli and Legolas (don't give me that look!), in that they're the close allies that fill up the ally roster, yet are also tight enough that they're worthy of a story focus, enough that they're allowed into the West along with the other big heroes of LOTR.


That's a great analogy, actually. I like the TIM = Gollum one too, I don't know why I never thought of that. That's pretty much how I want TIM to go out, too.


Oh yeah, I mean, TIM is a bad guy and he's going down. Outright. Sorry Cerberus supporters.

But that doesn't mean his experiments and efforts don't have a use in the journey. I think to think otherwise is silly. Hubris of a rival/antagonist itself can be a productive lead in to the protagonist's victory.

I mean, hell, I can headcanon it that TIM actually DOES take control of the Reapers for a little while, allowing us to do what we need to do, yet he can't maintain control and gets swallowed up by it.


EDIT: If I just foretold the actual ending of ME3's narrative, forgive me. Heh. :pinched:

Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:04 .

#55091
Raistlin Majare 1992
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:16

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demersel wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I typically go pargon, unless it's stupid. But I noticed Omega drawing the renegade out of me. I offed him. Sometimes you don't get a second chance.


+1
that is what i thought to... Omega drew the renegade out of me. 


Same, though in a more Paragon way if you could say that. That Reactor scene with Petroysky whispering in your ear and the siuation growing more desperate for Nyreen and Aria had me seriusly considering hitting that button.

And after Nyreen died, oh good lord was aI tempted by that Renegade interupt in regards o Petroysky. I let him live this time valuing the information he could bring too much, but once my FemShep heads through Omega I wont regret pulling the trigger one bit.

#55092
spotlessvoid
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:17

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Being directly linked to even one Reapers mind would **** your whole world up

#55093
spotlessvoid
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:26

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Conrad Verner = Tom Bombadil?

#55094
demersel
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:28

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Same, though in a more Paragon way if you could say that. That Reactor scene with Petroysky whispering in your ear and the siuation growing more desperate for Nyreen and Aria had me seriusly considering hitting that button.

And after Nyreen died, oh good lord was aI tempted by that Renegade interupt in regards o Petroysky. I let him live this time valuing the information he could bring too much, but once my FemShep heads through Omega I wont regret pulling the trigger one bit.


I was almost exclusively renegade in the conversations between nyree and Aria, and almost 100% sided with Aria, but i did not push the reactor button. and in my first go i did not let Aria kill Petrovsky via paragon interrupt. (apperently she hates me now) - but I am really considering to actually letting her kill him. 

#55095
RavenEyry
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:36

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I'm paragon but not stupid. Killing Balak and Vido will save more lives in the long run (OK, it doesn't with hindsight, but it seems it would at the time. And I'll shoot the gas pipe behind the villain making a speech even if it's not 'honourable'.

#55096
RavenEyry
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:38

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spotlessvoid wrote...

Conrad Verner = Tom Bombadil?

Victus' son = Faramir.

#55097
CmdrShep80
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:50

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masster blaster wrote...

I still find it funny. Why does Bioware keep adding war assets? I mean the end is the end, and it's not like the assets will do anything.....

Unless.... The more assets we gather. The more we of a better chance we have winning at the battle at Earth.


i still believe it will be something special at the 10k war asset mark. I had 75% cause I was too busy playing omega but mine showed about 6k. At 100% it was a bit pass 8k

#55098
demersel
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:51

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I just had an Idea.... Remember, Illusive man? "Shepard, you are not equipped to make that choice?" and implanting himself with something?
In Omega, Cerberus implanst civillians, then infects them with adjuntants - so they become adjuntans, but ones that they can now directly control! what if same idea applies on much bigger scale? So Illusive man implans himself with a control device - then he gets to use is assimulated into Reaper master control - he can't take control of them himself - since they already control him through indoctrination, BUT! with him being integrated into reapers - someone else now take control of HIM, since the mechanism IS now there, and by extension this would allow that someone to control all reapers, without being affected by them!!! So basicly Illusive man, since he is already compromised and he knows it (he knows he is compromised since the very beginning, the first contact war) - he instead turns himself into a master control switch, sacrificing himself, but making the option possible!!

Omega is the best thing that happened to IT. cause it gives perspective! 

Modifié par demersel, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:55 .

#55099
RavenEyry
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:54

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I still find it funny. Why does Bioware keep adding war assets? I mean the end is the end, and it's not like the assets will do anything.....

Unless.... The more assets we gather. The more we of a better chance we have winning at the battle at Earth.


i still believe it will be something special at the 10k war asset mark. I had 75% cause I was too busy playing omega but mine showed about 6k. At 100% it was a bit pass 8k

Adding more war assets when you can comfortably unlock all endings without DLC or MP is a little odd, but it'd be odder if they didn't add any.

If there's been a 'secret ending' since the beginning I'd think an MP addict would've found it by now.

#55100
111987
Posté 30 novembre 2012 - 08:57

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RavenEyry wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I still find it funny. Why does Bioware keep adding war assets? I mean the end is the end, and it's not like the assets will do anything.....

Unless.... The more assets we gather. The more we of a better chance we have winning at the battle at Earth.


i still believe it will be something special at the 10k war asset mark. I had 75% cause I was too busy playing omega but mine showed about 6k. At 100% it was a bit pass 8k

Adding more war assets when you can comfortably unlock all endings without DLC or MP is a little odd, but it'd be odder if they didn't add any.

If there's been a 'secret ending' since the beginning I'd think an MP addict would've found it by now.


It also could have been found in the game files on the PC.
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