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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#55126
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Organic chess = Cerberus, actually, 'controlling' organic pieces
Synthetic chess = Reapers, illusory
Chessboard = possibly Cerberus/TIM moving around chess pieces in order to both play WITH, and yet ELUDE the Reapers, with the eventual goal of winning the game

Losing the game = He represents Cerberus being shot by the side by Shepard, and the game is lost. Cerberus can't win because that can't hold out against Shepard-side and Reaper conflict/influence at once.

Traynor = Can play the game, likes the feeling of something SOLID in her hands (sexual joke aside, it means she is not illusory, and openly uses her skills for Shepard's sake)

Shepard = Can't play chess! He's not a manipulator for most part, but a natural inspiration. It's either up to us to rush in with clear mind and upend the board (Renegade, Omega clues), or learn to play the chess game properly (Paragon, Leviathan clues) and all its cues/hints.

#55127
BleedingUranium

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SwobyJ wrote...

Organic chess = Cerberus, actually, 'controlling' organic pieces
Synthetic chess = Reapers, illusory
Chessboard = possibly Cerberus/TIM moving around chess pieces in order to both play WITH, and yet ELUDE the Reapers, with the eventual goal of winning the game

Losing the game = He represents Cerberus being shot by the side by Shepard, and the game is lost. Cerberus can't win because that can't hold out against Shepard-side and Reaper conflict/influence at once.

Traynor = Can play the game, likes the feeling of something SOLID in her hands (sexual joke aside, it means she is not illusory, and openly uses her skills for Shepard's sake)

Shepard = Can't play chess! He's not a manipulator for most part, but a natural inspiration. It's either up to us to rush in with clear mind and upend the board (Renegade, Omega clues), or learn to play the chess game properly (Paragon, Leviathan clues) and all its cues/hints.


Nice Posted Image

#55128
demersel

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Shepard can play the game. Just not as good as Traynor. ))
Besides i think he was loosing on purpose to have a shot at luring Traynor to bed. )
There are different ways to play the game, and different games to play. :D

Modifié par demersel, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:42 .


#55129
paxxton

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

I liked the adjutant's bio shot they throw at you. It's interesting when you get stuck next to one, the world distorts a bit

It's a violently unstable mass effect field that disorients the enemy, as the Codex puts it.

#55130
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"This is a trap, isn't it."

"I'm just a simple lab scientist Commander! I'm sure your real world expertise will give you an edge."

...HA

"My word commander, it's as if you wanted to spare your pawns the indignity of living under my regime."

"In real life that tactic would have worked." *angry Shepard face*

"Well in *real life*, one doesn't move on an 8x8 square grid."

"You know what I mean. The pawns are infantry. A good infantry line, like the krogan, can take a charge like that."

VIDEO: www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:53 .


#55131
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demersel wrote...

Shepard can play the game. Just not as good as Traynor. ))
Besides i think he was loosing on purpose to have a shot at luring Traynor to bed. )
There are different ways to play the game, and different games to play. :D


Nah, I think he's just bad at it.

As in, he doesn't get sucked into what might be called the 'grand chessboard of manipulation', in ME symbolic sense.

Only at the end.

#55132
demersel

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 Here is something to look at 
right beside a burst-opened pitch dark vent. 

Posted Image

And later right before you enter the final mission on omega - there is an assembly of warning signs including the lightning striking the head. Forgot to make a screen shot of that. 

#55133
Eryri

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SwobyJ wrote...

"This is a trap, isn't it."

"I'm just a simple lab scientist Commander! I'm sure your real world expertise will give you an edge."

...HA

"My word commander, it's as if you wanted to spare your pawns the indignity of living under my regime."

"In real life that tactic would have worked." *angry Shepard face*

"Well in *real life*, one doesn't move on an 8x8 square grid."

"You know what I mean. The pawns are infantry. A good infantry line, like the krogan, can take a charge like that."

VIDEO: www.youtube.com/watch


How did I miss this? I made a point of speaking to absolutely everyone, after every mission, and I still missed both this and Liara's dad!

#55134
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Well, what do you think? :)

#55135
demersel

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wow,,, Aria's paragon version speech is terrible - it is like she died inside - it isn't Aria. I am really glad I completed Omega the way I did.

#55136
RavenEyry

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SwobyJ wrote...

"In real life that tactic would have worked." *angry Shepard face*

Reminds me of a moment in Discworld where Vimes mentions he hates chess because he can't understand why the pawns don't just band together and overthrow the king.

#55137
BleedingUranium

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The idea that while Shepard is really good at what he does, he sucks at things outside his element, like chess, seems like it's directly connected to the idea that players didn't get the end because they were in "game mode" and not "story mode".

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 30 novembre 2012 - 11:04 .


#55138
Eryri

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SwobyJ wrote...

Well, what do you think? :)


Well, I don't know if it relates to IT or not, but it's a cool scene, and if it was put in to deliberately foreshadow the ending, then you deserve 1000 internets for spotting it.

Plus I like Sam even more now. She's so much more fun than Kelly. :lol:

#55139
demersel

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BleedingUranium wrote...

The idea that while Shepard is really good at what he does, he sucks at things outside his element, like chess, seems like it's directly connected to the idea that players didn't get the end because they were in "game mode" and not "story mode".


Male Shepard can't dance, and the whole galaxy knows it and makes fun of him. 

#55140
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demersel wrote...

wow,,, Aria's paragon version speech is terrible - it is like she died inside - it isn't Aria. I am really glad I completed Omega the way I did.


Really? I found it much more caring for the people of Omega.

"But we are Omega!" (aka I'm sharing a bit with you all) youtu.be/Dx24nHLq0Co
vs
"Don't **** with Omega!" (aka Aria) www.youtube.com/watch

It's not 'Aria' as you know her, because she experienced a bit of character growth. That's all imo.

And if you want to take an indoctrination standpoint:

Nyreen without Aria influence would have been blind Paragon that wouldn't even want to save Omega.

Aria without Nyreen influence (so Paragon) would have stuck to the old ways and while tightening her grip on Omega, also possibly opens it up to another manipulation.

I think there's a time for Paragon and a time for Renegade, but Bioware allows us the choice, especially if we personally want revenge, or to save a population, for example.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 novembre 2012 - 11:09 .


#55141
RavenEyry

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Shep can't hold their drink either.

#55142
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BleedingUranium wrote...

The idea that while Shepard is really good at what he does, he sucks at things outside his element, like chess, seems like it's directly connected to the idea that players didn't get the end because they were in "game mode" and not "story mode".


I thought so as well.

I also think Bioware people will be happy to move onto a new protagonist(s) when the time comes. Shepard's character traits, even his neutral tone, has all been explained by now (or soon enough, at least), and it'll be nice to see things from a new perspective.

#55143
paxxton

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Does Nyreen always have to die?

#55144
RavenEyry

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Quick thought: All capital reapers were supposedly built in Harbinger's image, but Harbinger is visibly different from the standard Sovereign class, and if they were capitals at the end of 2, some look different from each other anyway.

#55145
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RavenEyry wrote...

Quick thought: All capital reapers were supposedly built in Harbinger's image, but Harbinger is visibly different from the standard Sovereign class, and if they were capitals at the end of 2, some look different from each other anyway.

Artistic disintegrity.

#55146
Eryri

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paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Quick thought: All capital reapers were supposedly built in Harbinger's image, but Harbinger is visibly different from the standard Sovereign class, and if they were capitals at the end of 2, some look different from each other anyway.

Artistic disintegrity.


Harbinger's even different from the Leviathans. They all have that middle leg thing. Without it, Harbinger has a more spider-like look to him, rather than the squid / prawn / head-louse appearance of the other Capital ships.

Modifié par Eryri, 30 novembre 2012 - 11:23 .


#55147
RavenEyry

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Since the only proof of this is a leviathan said so, that's another reason to distrust them.

#55148
dorktainian

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Eryri wrote...

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Quick thought: All capital reapers were supposedly built in Harbinger's image, but Harbinger is visibly different from the standard Sovereign class, and if they were capitals at the end of 2, some look different from each other anyway.

Artistic disintegrity.


Harbinger's even different from the Leviathans. They all have that middle leg thing. Without it, Harbinger has a more spider-like look to him, rather than the squid / prawn / head-louse appearance of the other Capital ships.

 at the end of ME2 have a look at the reapers in dark space.  they are all different.  continuity fail from bioware.

#55149
RavenEyry

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dorktainian wrote...
 at the end of ME2 have a look at the reapers in dark space.  they are all different.  continuity fail from bioware.

About four different types and Harby is not 'all different' and the different types still appear in a lab on a side mission, implying they're around but the sovereign types are the front line combatants.

EDIT: And I did mention the multiple types in 2 in the first post, read the whole stack you're quoting next time.

Modifié par RavenEyry, 30 novembre 2012 - 11:35 .


#55150
BleedingUranium

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dorktainian wrote...

Eryri wrote...

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Quick thought: All capital reapers were supposedly built in Harbinger's image, but Harbinger is visibly different from the standard Sovereign class, and if they were capitals at the end of 2, some look different from each other anyway.

Artistic disintegrity.


Harbinger's even different from the Leviathans. They all have that middle leg thing. Without it, Harbinger has a more spider-like look to him, rather than the squid / prawn / head-louse appearance of the other Capital ships.

 at the end of ME2 have a look at the reapers in dark space.  they are all different.  continuity fail from bioware.


Actually there are only four unique models there. It's very likely they're Harbinger, standard capital Reapers, Troop Transports, and Processor Ships. So, it makes perfect sense.