80611 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenEyry]

You can let him go, which is why the whole 'what happened to Vido' discussion came up in the first place.

[Restrider]

BleedingUranium wrote...

-Eden Prime Beacon
-Watching it again with Liara
-And again with Shiala
-Virmire Beacon
-Indoctrination codex
-Overlord alternate reality overlay
-Derelict Reaper crew having hallucinations
-Arrival team having nightmares and hearing voices
-Shepard's nightmares with the kid
-ME3 Eden Prime visions
-Geth Consensus
-Constant overuse of the word "nightmare" in ME3
-Entire end sequence of Leviathan (nearly identical to ME3 end)

You might also add:
-melding with Sha'ira in ME1 and Liara in ME1/3 (including the gift scene)
-the vision in ME1 you get due to the prothean relic you find on a remote world (the vision is given only in text form)
-Arrival counter going to zero (the visions of the Reapers arrival and your teammates etc.)

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Restrider wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

-Eden Prime Beacon
-Watching it again with Liara
-And again with Shiala
-Virmire Beacon
-Indoctrination codex
-Overlord alternate reality overlay
-Derelict Reaper crew having hallucinations
-Arrival team having nightmares and hearing voices
-Shepard's nightmares with the kid
-ME3 Eden Prime visions
-Geth Consensus
-Constant overuse of the word "nightmare" in ME3
-Entire end sequence of Leviathan (nearly identical to ME3 end)

You might also add:
-melding with Sha'ira in ME1 and Liara in ME1/3 (including the gift scene)
-the vision in ME1 you get due to the prothean relic you find on a remote world (the vision is given only in text form)
-Arrival counter going to zero (the visions of the Reapers arrival and your teammates etc.)

The Arrival artifact also gives a short vision just as it activates, basicly a shortened version of the counter to zero vision.

[dorktainian]

gotta keep this ace thread going....

[RavenEyry]

I hate bumping ... now I've done it...

[Restrider]

SwobyJ wrote...
The story tells me, in a more abstract and personally interpretive manner, that Shepard won't defeat the Reapers alone. He's done the impossible, but also, never alone. Oh, except when he did stuff alone, it had very curious outcomes and stories happening there.

Ugh, this is hard to explain.

ME1 he only holds off the Reapers shocking the Citadel in a surprise attack.
This has the negative effect of drawing attention towards humanity and obtaining Shepard's mind/body dead or alive.
This has the positive effect of alerting certain characters and factions about the Reapers and to begin preparations for what is to come, even if most people ignore the threat. Before ME1, VERY few people knew of the Reapers and even fewer did anything about it, save for TIM and Saren, as far as we know.

ME2 he first ends the creation of a human Reaper, and then stalls the arrival of the Reapers by a few more months.
The negative result is that he draws very specific attention onto Earth and himself, with a focused Harvest onto Earth ASAP, and (as IT at least says) onto him as a fully intact and alive specimen, possibly for the purpose of installing onto a human Reaper as its chief consciousness.
This has the positive effect of setting up larger factions in the story (generally non-Citadel based) to step up to the plate when the time comes: geth, quarian, krogan, Alliance. The galaxy isn't ready for the invasion now, but at least parts of it know it will happen and that we need to be as ready as possible.

The big effect is of the characters we meet, causing massive ripples throughout the galaxy over time:
-For the Krogan and Turians --> Wrex, Mordin, Garrus, Grunt
-For the Citadel --> Kaidan/Ashley, Thane
-For the Geth and Quarians --> Tali, Legion
-For Cerberus (this cycle's 'traitors') counterweight --> Jacob, Miranda
-For the intelligence gathering and dissimination ops --> Liara
-For Mercs --> Zaeed, Aria
-For various other groups --> Samara (Justicars rallied after her mission, I believe), Kasumi (Hanar)

SOOOOOOO

In the IT sense, we have moved from a small team, to individuals scattered over the galaxy, to now giant factions concentrated throughout everything. What next?

A galaxy united. And it happens on Priority: Earth. All based on Shepard's actions.

So if a victory is going to happen, its not down to Shepard's immediate actions in one level, but the culmination of all previous actions, and I'm saying to not discount the effect he's had on pretty much everyone in the galaxy now.

It's not as simple as 'conventional victory' to me, but instead it is the 'rising up to the challenge that Shepard explains to them'. Shepard can only do so much. If he never helped Thane or Kirrahe, the Salarian council member would have died and you'd have lost their species maximum support. If he never helped Legion and Tali, there can never be peace between the sides (Legion has to help his people and Tali has to help convince them to stand down) and they can't join the final battle.

He's an enabler, either through charm or intimidation. = the Catalyst?

Where does that leave us? Thematically, I think that leaves things not with Shepard, but with the galaxy itself. Whether Shepard dies or not, I think in an IT story they will pick up the slack and finally figure things out for themselves. He was the anomaly that woke THEM up from their nightmare in order to face the real monsters, so even if Shep never wakes up, they'll take his earlier cue and find out SOMETHING.

[dorktainian]

OK to to bring the theory up to date.....

The Leviathans are behind it all....because.....
They created the reapers.
They created Star Brat.
They created the cycle.
There are 3 leviathans and three endings.
The mysterious orbs.
They can kill a reaper (did they really kill it or was that just for show?)
They indoctrinate using the orbs.
They live in seclusion for protection they say from the reapers.
Throw in the Indoctrination theory post Suicide run.
TIM is being controlled.
Shep is being controlled.
The three endings are all a lie.
The crudible is a red herring.
Chronos Base is making a human reaper.
Cerberus is controlled by Harbinger/TIM.

did I miss owt?

[archangel1996]

Guys....there are stupid fanboys just in the Italian forums? Please tell me that you have them too

Modifié par archangel1996, 30 novembre 2012 - 04:55 .

[RavenEyry]

archangel1996 wrote...

Guys....there are stupid fanboys just in the Italian forums? Please tell me that you have them too

It's the internet, there are stupid people hiding around every corner, waiting to strike.

[Restrider]

byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

Don't forget, that we don't actually know what asary look like - they make us see them as a blue fersion of a female.

I still dont buy that. We've seen video of asari. I'm sure people paint portraits of them. If every artist painted asari completely different, or if the creature you see on your television looks nothing like an asari, people would notice.

I think people are really reading way too much into a simple joke.

Unless the thing asari does affect the brain directly - and from that moment on, whenever you see an asari, or an image of an asari - it interprets it the way it is conditioned to - as an attractive blue alien female. That way everybody can look at the same thing and see it differently. 

this process would actually explain most of the ME3 anyway. )))

This in no way explains why people who see pictures of asari before meeting them clearly see them as very human looking blue aliens. Plus, if you actually paid attention to the conversation the drunk bachelor party guys were having, they clearly are just attracted to different parts of the asari. They dont see her as looking different.

It has been proven that Asari look like we see them!
As far as I know, in Revelation, aliens were making the remark that human female resembled Asari, when humans were new comers to the galactic community. Thus we can conclude that Asari do actually look like they seem they look.

[Restrider]

magnetite wrote...

I was thinking about something maybe an hour ago. When all this DLC gets released and the trilogy wraps up, I think there's probably going to be a lot of people apologizing on how they were all fooled with the ending and completely missed the point (not us, but anyone who took the ending literally). Probably happen around March or so next year, would be my guess.

I wish it was that way.
But most people would say that BW just tried to appease us ITers and stole the idea from us. Only few would admit having been fooled by the Guardian.

[masster blaster]

What I always found funny is the child on Earth is telling " Shepard you can't help me?"

Why not?

What I also find funny is that Anderson never ask Shepard.

" who are you talking to" plus the kid is gone when your Shepard turns around for about 5 seconds, and find the kid gone. Now the child show have made sounds when he was leaving because when Liara is in the vent in Mars. You can hear clancs of metal when Liara is trying to move away from the gun fire.

Also the brat just magacly so happence to apper when Shepard is about to leave Earth. And looks around and looks up at Shepard. Then a Destroyer Reaper comes, and the kid get's scard and goes towards the shuttle. Now what's funny is that when the kid says.

" You can't help me" well look at the shuttle scene. Nobody helps the child. The child get's on the shuttle on his own. Symbolising that he doesn't need help from anyone.

Now when you look at the end. The Catalyst is in the form of the child. And he ask for Shepard's help. Now think about the child on Earth.

Child:" You can't help me."

Again the child on Earth doesn't need help, and the Catalyst/ Reaper leader is asking for Shepard's help in the form of a child that didn't need Shepard's help.

So if you take symbolism into account. The Catalyst does not need Shepard's help at all. Again Child on Earth doesn't need Shepard's help. The Catalyst needs Shepard's help, but takes the form of the child that doesn't need Shepard's help.

This also goes for the dream/ nightmers.

Shepard sees the child that died on Earth in his/her dreams right, but every time we get close to the child he runs away. Symbolising you can't catch me/ help me. Thus we see the child burn.

Now in the last dream we see the brat inbrase our Shepard, but a dream version of Shepard. Now what's funny is now the brat needs Shepard. But I thought the child didn't need help, but wait the Catalyst does.

[masster blaster]

To add on to my last post.

The catalyst took the form of the child why?

Why did he?

The writers wrote the child on Earth as " you can't help me"/ not needing any help. The catalyst takes the form of the child that doesn't need help. Bioware knew that the kid on Earth was symbolic in a sense. The reason could be why they pick the Catalyst to take the form of the child is because the Catalyst does't need help.

In other words. Catalyst does not need Shepard's help. Almost everything he is telling you is a lie. What I mean is the epilogues are an illusion to keep Shepard in la la land, and either bleed out in Destroy or refuse, or become Indoctrinated in Control, and Synthesis.

However because Shepard stuck with Destroying the Reapers, which was the point, he/she wakes up do to the will power, and readiness we prepared Shepard.

[dorktainian]

a child that age would be cacking its pants. a reaper walks past behind as anderson calls you. then the kid disappears. anderson never asks what you were doing. it's all a lie. all of it. they even called mass effect 3 a game. lies i tell you...

[dorktainian]

right. also Anderson is intent on escaping... he runs away with shepard until the normandy arrives... then all of a sudden anderson wants to stay. He says he wants to help, but what if he stayed because it wasnt anderson but an illusion projected by the reaper (just like star brat)? Is the Normandy the real normandy? It looks like the normandy but is it?

Everything is foggy after shep gets blasted off his feet. Anderson survives -- and yet people further away from the blast than him are clearly dead.

[RavenEyry]

An early joke was that Anderson didn't want to admit he was too old to make the jump to the Normandy so quickly made something up about staying to help.

[Minthird]

Shepard: "You've been spending to much time with the enemy, they're dragging you over to their side, their way of thinking." The Illusive Man: "No, I just.. see things differently.".

Think a little about this sentence. Wasn't Shepard seeing things differently in the end? The same way the reapers indoctrinated Illusive Man, by making false promises of impossible power, were also used on Shepard.

And it just confirms that the ending was an indoctrination attempt, that the Catalyst had the voice of the child, Shepard and Harbinger, that is a fact, you can hear it. What explanation do you get from non-indoctrination believers? "Uhh, yeah... Bioware put that in to try to make it cool..." No they wouldn't, they did this on purpose and I just don´t understand why everyone believes the catalyst, maybe he's just lying, wait a minute, he's lying. Jessica  Merizan who works at Bioware responded to a question from a fan who asked: "Quarians don't die because they're not reaper tech? Then why do the geth die?" She responses: "We never see the geth die in the destroy ending so maybe the Catalyst isn't being completely honest." And the catalyst says: "All synthetics will be targeted, including the geth"

The Catalyst is Harbinger trying to make Shepard indoctrinated.

[Andromidius]

dorktainian wrote...

right. also Anderson is intent on escaping... he runs away with shepard until the normandy arrives... then all of a sudden anderson wants to stay. He says he wants to help, but what if he stayed because it wasnt anderson but an illusion projected by the reaper (just like star brat)? Is the Normandy the real normandy? It looks like the normandy but is it?

Everything is foggy after shep gets blasted off his feet. Anderson survives -- and yet people further away from the blast than him are clearly dead.

Hmm.  Maybe we should check how much people interact with him during the introduction?

I don't think this is the case though.  I think its just a gut decision by him.  But it might be interesting to check.

[RavenEyry]

TIM was revealed to be swayed by false promises of control.
Minutes later Shepard is promised control.
Everything works out fine.
Seems legit.

[dorktainian]

oh dear god just had a thought... millions of my brain cells cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. Take it scene by scene... the prologue. Shepard meets James. (app they have known each other for a while) Shep follows james out of the room but has to swerve to avoid people almost like they dont see him. 2D sprites outside when people are fleeing. like some kind of projection.

[RavenEyry]

'No Shepard, you are the hallucinations! Then Shepard was a reaper.'

[smokingotter1]

masster blaster wrote...

To add on to my last post.

The catalyst took the form of the child why?

Why did he?

The writers wrote the child on Earth as " you can't help me"/ not needing any help. The catalyst takes the form of the child that doesn't need help. Bioware knew that the kid on Earth was symbolic in a sense. The reason could be why they pick the Catalyst to take the form of the child is because the Catalyst does't need help.

In other words. Catalyst does not need Shepard's help. Almost everything he is telling you is a lie. What I mean is the epilogues are an illusion to keep Shepard in la la land, and either bleed out in Destroy or refuse, or become Indoctrinated in Control, and Synthesis.

However because Shepard stuck with Destroying the Reapers, which was the point, he/she wakes up do to the will power, and readiness we prepared Shepard.

Regarding your two posts there are two things happening.

When the child says "you can't help me" it could be symbolic of the reapers saying "you're not indoctrinated yet." Only at the very end is Shepard's mind ready to "help." Until Shepard is indoctrinated he's not useful yet to the reapers.

Also the child form is symbolic of the reapers new and growing influence. Get it? Also as indoctrination takes place the reapers will look more innocent and nice.

Also top

Modifié par smokingotter1, 30 novembre 2012 - 05:56 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

RavenEyry wrote...

TIM was revealed to be swayed by false promises of control.
Minutes later Shepard is promised control.
Everything works out fine.
Seems legit.

Soldier:  But converting other life forms into Reapers... I can't wrap my head around that.
Garrus: Makes sense to me.  It ensures you never run out of cannon fodder. Eliminates any local resistance. And for every soldier you add, your enemy loses two: the one you converted, and his buddy on the other side who can't pull the trigger on a friend. (...)
Soldier: But the Reapers want to destroy us.
Garrus: And I have no intention of letting them. But If you don't respect your enemy's capabilities, you're in for one nasty surprise after another.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 30 novembre 2012 - 05:57 .