80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Dwailing]

Restrider wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Wrong movie.  That was the prototype General Chang commanded in The Undiscovered Country (Star Trek VI).

I remember, so the Klingons in Generations had a way to pass the shields of the Enterprise and sucker-punched them with their first strike, right?

Yup, a proverbial Citadel in the proverbial galactic community of the Enterprise. ^_^  Also, they had an indoctrinated implanted mole onboard.

[Restrider]

Andromidius wrote...

Oh don't get me wrong. I understand the War Assets aren't really a literal representation of the allied fleet's chances of victory in the context of the final sequence, and its all about Shepard's mental strength and resolve.

But its good to 'debunk' the idea I had floating in my head that Anderson's death would effect the inner workings of the Crucible. Even if it still relies completely on EMS and is thus completely unbelievable as a real thing, and can only be linked to Shepard's mental strength.

I know that you were playing devil's advocate here .
But as I had the feeling that this point was left rather unnoticed, I wanted full scrutiny. Even Heretic Hanar was not able to make a decent rebuttal and kept questioning the concept of EMS as a whole.
Though the EMS concept is quite straight forward, if you ignore the random numbers. Only this last point makes no sense in a literal POV and cannot be handwaved as an oversight, glitch, reused asset or bad writing.
This for me proofs that the literal interpretation is most certainly bogus.

[umadcommander]

Restrider wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Oh don't get me wrong. I understand the War Assets aren't really a literal representation of the allied fleet's chances of victory in the context of the final sequence, and its all about Shepard's mental strength and resolve.

But its good to 'debunk' the idea I had floating in my head that Anderson's death would effect the inner workings of the Crucible. Even if it still relies completely on EMS and is thus completely unbelievable as a real thing, and can only be linked to Shepard's mental strength.

I know that you were playing devil's advocate here .
But as I had the feeling that this point was left rather unnoticed, I wanted full scrutiny. Even Heretic Hanar was not able to make a decent rebuttal and kept questioning the concept of EMS as a whole.
Though the EMS concept is quite straight forward, if you ignore the random numbers. Only this last point makes no sense in a literal POV and cannot be handwaved as an oversight, glitch, reused asset or bad writing.
This for me proofs that the literal interpretation is most certainly bogus.

its one of the best indicators of IT purely because they didnt outright remove it in the EC when they could have quite easily

[Andromidius]

Dwailing wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Wrong movie.  That was the prototype General Chang commanded in The Undiscovered Country (Star Trek VI).

I remember, so the Klingons in Generations had a way to pass the shields of the Enterprise and sucker-punched them with their first strike, right?

Yup, a proverbial Citadel in the proverbial galactic community of the Enterprise. ^_^  Also, they had an indoctrinated implanted mole onboard.

Basically they'd planted a bug in the visor of a captured crewmember (Gordie), which relayed back information for them.  Through that they discovered the frequency of the Enterprise's shield generators, recalibrated their weapons to match and so their torpedoes cut straight through and hit the Enterprise's hull directly.

Its safe to assume that if the Enterprise was expecting an attack like this then they'd have been doing the good old frequency modulation switching that happens so often in Voyager, but the attack was a suprise and likely hit criticial systems.  In a straight fight the Enterprise would have destroyed the Bird of Prey with a couple of salvos from its phaser banks.

Strangely, this is one theory people have for being able to defeat the Reapers - negating their Kinetic Barriers somehow.  Though even that would just make the fight a bit more balanced, rather then an easy victory - the Reapers are still tough and durable and can kill enemy ships with only a couple of shots.

Modifié par Andromidius, 30 novembre 2012 - 09:14 .

[Dwailing]

Andromidius wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Wrong movie.  That was the prototype General Chang commanded in The Undiscovered Country (Star Trek VI).

I remember, so the Klingons in Generations had a way to pass the shields of the Enterprise and sucker-punched them with their first strike, right?

Yup, a proverbial Citadel in the proverbial galactic community of the Enterprise. ^_^  Also, they had an indoctrinated implanted mole onboard.

Basically they'd planted a bug in the visor of a captured crewmember (Gordie), which relayed back information for them.  Through that they discovered the frequency of the Enterprise's shield generators, recalibrated their weapons to match and so their torpedoes cut straight through and hit the Enterprise's hull directly.

Its safe to assume that if the Enterprise was expecting an attack like this then they'd have been doing the good old frequency modulation switching that happens so often in Voyager, but the attack was a suprise and likely hit criticial systems.  In a straight fight the Enterprise would have destroyed the Bird of Prey with a couple of salvos from its phaser banks.

Strangely, this is one theory people have for being able to defeat the Reapers - negating their Kinetic Barriers somehow.  Though even that would just make the fight a bit more balanced, rather then an easy victory - the Reapers are still tough and durable and can kill enemy ships with only a couple of shots.

If we could take down the Reapers' shields, then we'd definitely be able to stop them... if our fleets were powerful enough.  Consider the Codex entry on the Reaper's Capabilities.  They have UN-FRIGGING-BELIEVABLE kinetic barriers, but only RIDICULOUS armor.  Once you bring down their shields, they're only as tough as any hunk of extremely durable metal, as shown by Sovereign.

[Restrider]

@ Andromidius
I think the codex depicts the Reapers' defensive capabilities as relying heavily on their barriers. Their offensive capabilities would still be impressive, but they would lose a huge advantage.

[Restrider]

Found this thread. The OP seems to be a reasonable guy, so keep it civil.

[demersel]

Restrider wrote...

Found this thread. The OP seems to be a reasonable guy, so keep it civil.

Yeah, I invited him here, but so far he ignored the invitation. 

[Andromidius]

Yep. They'd go from Godlike to Super-strong.

And mobile. And numerous.

Still, stack the deck and its possible. But incredibly bloody, wouldn't be much of a Galaxy left even in an ideal situation.

And this would be assuming we'd not wasted all our resources on the Crucible, on top of dropping their barriers.

[Dwailing]

Andromidius wrote...

Yep. They'd go from Godlike to Super-strong.

And mobile. And numerous.

Still, stack the deck and its possible. But incredibly bloody, wouldn't be much of a Galaxy left even in an ideal situation.

And this would be assuming we'd not wasted all our resources on the Crucible, on top of dropping their barriers.

Well, that could be the purpose of the Crucible (If it's not a trap).  It drops their shields, and the fleet is left to finish the job.  Would it be easy?  No, but nothin' in this war has been easy so far, why should it start now?

[Andromidius]

demersel wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Found this thread. The OP seems to be a reasonable guy, so keep it civil.

Yeah, I invited him here, but so far he ignored the invitation. 

I doubt he wants to get his ideas torn to pieces.  And notice how everyone replying is instantly assuming IT'ers will jump in there to attack him.  Yeah, because we totally do that all the time >_>

But yeah, the whole 'its not worth their time' argument is a bit silly.  If that was the case they wouldn't indoctrinate ANYONE.

[Applepie_Svk]

Andromidius wrote...

  If that was the case they wouldn't indoctrinate ANYONE.

it´s funny though, two of his 3 arguments against IT is that it would cost Reapers resources, time...

Well, as far I remember they are very patient and they don´t care about costs, just last cycle they were harvesting for few centuries...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 30 novembre 2012 - 09:37 .

[Andromidius]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

  If that was the case they wouldn't indoctrinate ANYONE.

it´s funny though, two of his 3 arguments against IT is that it would cost Reapers resources, time...

Well, as far I remember they are very patient and they don´t care about costs, just last cycle they were harvesting for few centuries...

Not to mention it goes against the Reaper's methods.  If they wanted to kill everyone, they would.

And also they'd not give Shepard any choices to defeat them, would they?  They'd just KILL HIM.

[demersel]

How much war assets do you think Shepard is worth?
Lazarus project's cost alone must be astronomical - Illusive man admitted that youcould build an entire fleet of dreadnoughts and hire all the crews for that....

[Applepie_Svk]

demersel wrote...

How much war assets do you think Shepard is worth?
Lazarus project's cost alone must be astronomical - Illusive man admitted that youcould build an entire fleet of dreadnoughts and hire all the crews for that....

LoL ... over 9000 .... 8000

[umadcommander]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

demersel wrote...

How much war assets do you think Shepard is worth?
Lazarus project's cost alone must be astronomical - Illusive man admitted that youcould build an entire fleet of dreadnoughts and hire all the crews for that....

LoL ... over 9000 .... 8000

was waiting for someone to say that 

[demersel]

umadcommander wrote...
was waiting for someone to say that 

Why? I don't get it...  Because that is total military strength? 
 

Modifié par demersel, 30 novembre 2012 - 09:54 .

[byne]

demersel wrote...

umadcommander wrote...
was waiting for someone to say that 

Why? I don't get it...  Because that is total military strength? 
 

You really dont get the over 9000 thing?

[demersel]

byne wrote...

You really dont get the over 9000 thing?

Yes. Please explain. 
 There was something familiar about over 9000... DBZ reference? 

Modifié par demersel, 30 novembre 2012 - 09:56 .

[umadcommander]

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

You really dont get the over 9000 thing?

Yes. Please explain. 
 There was something familiar about over 9000... DBZ reference? 

yes thats it 

[byne]

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

You really dont get the over 9000 thing?

Yes. Please explain. 
 There was something familiar about over 9000... DBZ reference? 

Yeah, pretty much.

You're like the first person I've ever met who didnt know about that meme.

[byne]

Oh yay, they still havent fixed the Benezia fight bug in ME1.

If you get knocked down right as Benezia summons reinforcements, you dont ever get back up. You just have to quit and reload.

[BatmanTurian]

So, thinking about Omega today and was watching some clips with Nyreen just to see her in movement rather than a still. A still pic doesn't do her justice IMO. Anyway, I got to the part where Aria said Nyreen was too predictable because she wanted to save everyone, then it's reinforced when Nyreen asks Shepard " let me guess, she said I was too predictable."

To me:
Aria= Harbinger/Reapers
Nyreen=Shep

Now I know Nyreen is Lawful stupid but hear me out. The Reapers know Shepard is predicable. Shepard will do all he/she can to save the galaxy, whether Renegade or Paragon. They also know Shepard never had any children and might be feeling that regret hence Anderson saying he never had a family and the Reapers haunting Shepard with a child Shepard had grown attached to while sitting it out on his/her 6 month suspension. Shepard probably saw that kid playing there a lot, or even just that one time, and thought about having kids someday when everything with the Reapers was over. Most people have an urge to nurture a younger being and bring them up and teach them. It's ingrained in our DNA.

So, if the Reapers know Shepard is predictable, they are counting on Shepard to try to save everyone, hence Control and Synthesis. Since Shepard (and we) are walking through Shepard's brain metaphorically ( entrance is spinal cord, collector corridor is the aymgdala, Shadow broker ship is the synapses firing in the middle of the brain with the bridge being the area where the two lobes are separated, up to the Freudian Trio in the frontal lobe and further up into the frontal lobe where the decision chamber is), Destroy is the last bit of resistance left in Shepard, literally the last SHRED of Shepard left that hasn't been co-opted yet. Starbinger tries to dissuade you from it because Destroy is probably Shepard's last chance to push back, Shepard's last bit of willpower measured by EMS. But in Destroy, Shepard does what Starbinger doesn't predict.

If it was up to Starbinger, Destroy wouldn't even be there, because Starbinger is using Shepard's mind and memories to create this space because, (once again) Harbinger is made of Leviathans and can do what Leviathans can do only probably more intensely since he is made of millions, perhaps billions of Leviathans. You saw what one Leviathan can do. Now just multiply that and the kind of mindspace Harbinger can create is beyond what any single Leviathan can make.

Anyway, TLDR, Aria is Harbinger, Nyreen is Shepard. Harbinger is canny and thinks Shepard is predictable ( "struggle if you wish. Your mind will be mine" ). Perhaps Shepard is predictable since Shepard rallies everyone to Earth right into the maw of the Reapers. But Destroy is what Harbinger can't predict and what makes Shepard special. It's that willpower and charisma that Shepard has always had to control situations, stay cool under pressure, and sway others to his/her way of thinking (something Harbinger desperately wants because Charisma and Willpower is less harmful than the indoctrination process). Destroy is the middle finger to Harbinger, saying " I'm not as f***ing predictable as you think I am. "

Anyway, this is just a metaphor to foreshadow the ending that I saw in Omega. I think Omega goes a lot deeper than we think. This shows me again that Bioware are not bad writers. They know how to set up characters and situations that mirror and foreshadow other characters and situations and to set up metaphors that are inspiring and amazing at a second glance.. This is A+ writing in my book.

[demersel]

BatmanTurian - Omega is awesome! I consider it even more of IT DLC than Leviathan. In leviathan you're like - "Hey we could be getting indoctrinated". In Omega you're like "Ok, but what do I do about it?"

Omega is indeed A+ writing. 

It is much more sublte than Leviathan which is more like "in your face".

Read the dev's blog post about making Omega - they basicly say everything you say, as much without saying it directly as they can - 

blog.bioware.com/2012/11/30/dev-blog-creating-the-mass-effect-3-omega-dlc/

Modifié par demersel, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:14 .

[Eryri]

byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

You really dont get the over 9000 thing?

Yes. Please explain. 
 There was something familiar about over 9000... DBZ reference? 

Yeah, pretty much.

You're like the first person I've ever met who didnt know about that meme.

I didn't know about it until I saw someone use it on the BSN. But then I'm an old fart. Relatively speaking.