80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Rankincountry]

Darn it, I got paid today and you're all starting to make Omega sound very much worth getting, and taking some time with - I'd held off because of a lot of comments that it was too much shooting mooks in the face and not enough story but I get the feeling this is a hasty judgement. So... should I indulge myself or is it one to check out on youtube?

@spotlessvoid, batmanturian and others - what you're talking about totally fits the idea that someone is chosen to be the guiding personality for each new reaper. Shepard's exceptional charisma helps them evolve their armoury of indoctrination techniques - in fact, that's probably part of how they surpassed the ability of the Leviathans.

@MassterBlaster - I totally agree with this. The catalyst is a devious and manipulative liar who uses the same techniques as politicians and PR people (let's face it, the two professions are practically the same these days lol). If you pay the slightest attention to the plot and themes of the game, it's screamingly obvious. He's telling a lot of players, who like Shepard may be tired and emotionally drained at the end of their hero's journey, what they want to hear. It is, I would argue, very cleverly written.

On my first playthrough I thought something was up and Catalyst's words rang false. On my second, where I paid more attention to things that came up in the IT thread. It couldn't be more obvious that the catalyst is a lying, devious little toerag if he jumped out of the screen, kneed me in my gentleman's area and ran off with my wallet and phone shouting "I'm Harbinger in disguise!". To me the whole catalyst sequence is a bit like a mini-Usual Suspects.

[acidic-ph0]

BatmanTurian wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So anything new lately guys/gals?

Top!

http://social.biowar...7/2215#15117997

Dude, not everything is related to the ending or indoctrination.

Omega is for all intents and purposes, a standalone action based DLC with a side emphasis on building Aria's character. All these metaphors you're drawing from it are quite farfetched. Sometimes when you hear hoofsteps think horse not zebra.

That being said I like a lot of the brainstorming that goes on in this thread, but some of  the stuff that you guys come up with is kinda silly. I really don't mean any offense by this, but trying to draw an indoctrination metaphor from Omega really is grasping at straws =/

Just my opinion of course.

[paxxton]

Brace for Impact 2222 !!!

[BatmanTurian]

acidic-ph0 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So anything new lately guys/gals?

Top!

http://social.biowar...7/2215#15117997

Dude, not everything is related to the ending or indoctrination.

Omega is for all intents and purposes, a standalone action based DLC with a side emphasis on building Aria's character. All these metaphors you're drawing from it are quite farfetched. Sometimes when you hear hoofsteps think horse not zebra.

That being said I like a lot of the brainstorming that goes on in this thread, but some of  the stuff that you guys come up with is kinda silly. I really don't mean any offense by this, but trying to draw an indoctrination metaphor from Omega really is grasping at straws =/

Just my opinion of course.

Mass Effect is fiction and you analyze fiction for hidden meaning and metaphors. This is English 101. You sound silly yourself telling us we should not look for hidden meaning in a story constructed by a person rather than a real event that just happens randomly.

[Dwailing]

BatmanTurian wrote...

acidic-ph0 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So anything new lately guys/gals?

Top!

http://social.biowar...7/2215#15117997

Dude, not everything is related to the ending or indoctrination.

Omega is for all intents and purposes, a standalone action based DLC with a side emphasis on building Aria's character. All these metaphors you're drawing from it are quite farfetched. Sometimes when you hear hoofsteps think horse not zebra.

That being said I like a lot of the brainstorming that goes on in this thread, but some of  the stuff that you guys come up with is kinda silly. I really don't mean any offense by this, but trying to draw an indoctrination metaphor from Omega really is grasping at straws =/

Just my opinion of course.

Mass Effect is fiction and you analyze fiction for hidden meaning and metaphors. This is English 101. You sound silly yourself telling us we should not look for hidden meaning in a story constructed by a person rather than a real event that just happens randomly.

Not only this, but BioWare has outright stated that there are elements of ME3 that are open to non-literal interpretation.

[spotlessvoid]

BT...ah, gotcha.

I guess that was a response to having heard it used in many ways, I understand your context though

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

BT...ah, gotcha.

I guess that was a response to having heard it used in many ways, I understand your context though

Thanks, I'm glad. I never meant to offend.

[masster blaster]

BatmanTurian wrote...

So, thinking about Omega today and was watching some clips with Nyreen just to see her in movement rather than a still. A still pic doesn't do her justice IMO. Anyway, I got to the part where Aria said Nyreen was too predictable because she wanted to save everyone, then it's reinforced when Nyreen asks Shepard " let me guess, she said I was too predictable."

To me:
Aria= Harbinger/Reapers
Nyreen=Shep

Now I know Nyreen is Lawful stupid but hear me out. The Reapers know Shepard is predicable. Shepard will do all he/she can to save the galaxy, whether Renegade or Paragon. They also know Shepard never had any children and might be feeling that regret hence Anderson saying he never had a family and the Reapers haunting Shepard with a child Shepard had grown attached to while sitting it out on his/her 6 month suspension. Shepard probably saw that kid playing there a lot, or even just that one time, and thought about having kids someday when everything with the Reapers was over. Most people have an urge to nurture a younger being and bring them up and teach them. It's ingrained in our DNA.

So, if the Reapers know Shepard is predictable, they are counting on Shepard to try to save everyone, hence Control and Synthesis. Since Shepard (and we) are walking through Shepard's brain metaphorically ( entrance is spinal cord, collector corridor is the aymgdala, Shadow broker ship is the synapses firing in the middle of the brain with the bridge being the area where the two lobes are separated, up to the Freudian Trio in the frontal lobe and further up into the frontal lobe where the decision chamber is), Destroy is the last bit of resistance left in Shepard, literally the last SHRED of Shepard left that hasn't been co-opted yet. Starbinger tries to dissuade you from it because Destroy is probably Shepard's last chance to push back, Shepard's last bit of willpower measured by EMS. But in Destroy, Shepard does what Starbinger doesn't predict.

If it was up to Starbinger, Destroy wouldn't even be there, because Starbinger is using Shepard's mind and memories to create this space because, (once again) Harbinger is made of Leviathans and can do what Leviathans can do only probably more intensely since he is made of millions, perhaps billions of Leviathans. You saw what one Leviathan can do. Now just multiply that and the kind of mindspace Harbinger can create is beyond what any single Leviathan can make.

Anyway, TLDR, Aria is Harbinger, Nyreen is Shepard. Harbinger is canny and thinks Shepard is predictable ( "struggle if you wish. Your mind will be mine" ). Perhaps Shepard is predictable since Shepard rallies everyone to Earth right into the maw of the Reapers. But Destroy is what Harbinger can't predict and what makes Shepard special. It's that willpower and charisma that Shepard has always had to control situations, stay cool under pressure, and sway others to his/her way of thinking (something Harbinger desperately wants because Charisma and Willpower is less harmful than the indoctrination process). Destroy is the middle finger to Harbinger, saying " I'm not as f***ing predictable as you think I am. "

Anyway, this is just a metaphor to foreshadow the ending that I saw in Omega. I think Omega goes a lot deeper than we think. This shows me again that Bioware are not bad writers. They know how to set up characters and situations that mirror and foreshadow other characters and situations and to set up metaphors that are inspiring and amazing at a second glance.. This is A+ writing in my book.

I can actually see the similarity's, although I haven't played Omega yet.

[byne]

"Sometimes Spectres have to make sacrifices. I hope you're ready to do that when the time comes."

The Salarian Councilor knows whats up.

[BatmanTurian]

byne wrote...

"Sometimes Spectres have to make sacrifices. I hope you're ready to do that when the time comes."

The Salarian Councilor knows whats up.

The Salarian councilor always seemed pragmatic, moreso than Tevos or the Turian (can't remember his name).

[Rankincountry]

Dwailing wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

acidic-ph0 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So anything new lately guys/gals?

Top!

http://social.biowar...7/2215#15117997

Dude, not everything is related to the ending or indoctrination.

Omega is for all intents and purposes, a standalone action based DLC with a side emphasis on building Aria's character. All these metaphors you're drawing from it are quite farfetched. Sometimes when you hear hoofsteps think horse not zebra.

That being said I like a lot of the brainstorming that goes on in this thread, but some of  the stuff that you guys come up with is kinda silly. I really don't mean any offense by this, but trying to draw an indoctrination metaphor from Omega really is grasping at straws =/

Just my opinion of course.

Mass Effect is fiction and you analyze fiction for hidden meaning and metaphors. This is English 101. You sound silly yourself telling us we should not look for hidden meaning in a story constructed by a person rather than a real event that just happens randomly.

Not only this, but BioWare has outright stated that there are elements of ME3 that are open to non-literal interpretation.

Exactly. And I wish this effing "grasping at straws" meme would die along with its inbred cousin "bad writing". No-one here is "grasping at straws". No one desperately needs to believe in Bioware's genius. We're simply having an enjoyable and intelligent discourse about a work of fiction that we enjoy. It's part of the fun and pleasure of fiction of whatever medium and turns an essentially solitary pursuit into a shared experience. If you want to disagree, by all means do so. It's entirely possible that my interpretation of the ending is, in some objective sense, wrong and I'm always happy to concede to a superior argument. But all you've done is stick your head into the thread to snark and that's rude. Using memes and clichés just makes you look unimaginative, not clever, by the way.

[masster blaster]

byne wrote...

"Sometimes Spectres have to make sacrifices. I hope you're ready to do that when the time comes."

The Salarian Councilor knows whats up.

Wasn't that in ME1. If it is look at what happence at the end.

[BatmanTurian]

masster blaster wrote...
I can actually see the similarity's, although I haven't played Omega yet.

Neither have I, I was just looking at a little preview to see Nyreen in action because curiosity got the better of me and I came across this conversation and it got the old literary analysis gears running.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Hey guys, you know what I've alway wondered about since the EC but I've never seen discussed anywhere?
At the end of the EC track "An End Once And For All" at 4:17:
http://www.youtube.c...v_g_zQkY#t=257s
It seems to go on a loop but increasing in volume then the track suddenly stops.
It sounds incompleat.

Another thing I've knowest was in ME3, there is no victory theme. The one that plays after beating ME1 and ME2:


It's something I see as an unintentional hint to the player of an IT after the ending type DLC and this would be the final "victory theme" of ME3. A fusion of "An End Once And For All" and the "victory theme" from ME2.
http://www.youtube.c...pva82rHlo#t=44s

Seriously, try listening to the two together at the points I described! They sound like they fit!

Modifié par OneWithTheAssassins, 30 novembre 2012 - 11:58 .

[BatmanTurian]

Rankincountry wrote...

Exactly. And I wish this effing "grasping at straws" meme would die along with its inbred cousin "bad writing". No-one here is "grasping at straws". No one desperately needs to believe in Bioware's genius. We're simply having an enjoyable and intelligent discourse about a work of fiction that we enjoy. It's part of the fun and pleasure of fiction of whatever medium and turns an essentially solitary pursuit into a shared experience. If you want to disagree, by all means do so. It's entirely possible that my interpretation of the ending is, in some objective sense, wrong and I'm always happy to concede to a superior argument. But all you've done is stick your head into the thread to snark and that's rude. Using memes and clichés just makes you look unimaginative, not clever, by the way.

I agree, although I would have kept the struck out part to myself just to be nice. I'm a bulldog sometimes too and it's hard to keep it in some days. But I understand your frustration completely and said as much in a textwall some pages back that was largely ignored.

[Rankincountry]

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Hey guys, you know what I've alway wondered about since the EC but I've never seen discussed anywhere?
At the end of the EC track "An End Once And For All" at 4:17:
http://www.youtube.c...v_g_zQkY#t=257s
It seems to go on a loop but increasing in volume then the track suddenly stops.
It sounds incompleat.
Another thing I've knowest was in ME3, there is no victory theme. The one that plays after beating ME1 and ME2:


It's something I see as an unintentional hint to the player of an IT after the ending type DLC and this would be the final "victory theme" of ME3. A fusion of "An End Once And For All" and the "victory theme" from ME2.
http://www.youtube.c...pva82rHlo#t=44s

Seriously, try listening to the two together at the points I described! They sound like they fit!

I think someone else brought up this point a long time ago and I'd say you're on to something. The way the ending music plays out in ME3 is different to 1 and 2 in exactly the way you're talking about and for what is supposed to be the climactic end to Shepard's story, the tone of the music is odd, going from melacholy to what seems to me to be threatening and suspensful.

[acidic-ph0]

BatmanTurian wrote...

acidic-ph0 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So anything new lately guys/gals?

Top!

http://social.biowar...7/2215#15117997

Dude, not everything is related to the ending or indoctrination.

Omega is for all intents and purposes, a standalone action based DLC with a side emphasis on building Aria's character. All these metaphors you're drawing from it are quite farfetched. Sometimes when you hear hoofsteps think horse not zebra.

That being said I like a lot of the brainstorming that goes on in this thread, but some of  the stuff that you guys come up with is kinda silly. I really don't mean any offense by this, but trying to draw an indoctrination metaphor from Omega really is grasping at straws =/

Just my opinion of course.

Mass Effect is fiction and you analyze fiction for hidden meaning and metaphors. This is English 101. You sound silly yourself telling us we should not look for hidden meaning in a story constructed by a person rather than a real event that just happens randomly.

I never said not to be analytical. In fact I encourage it, especially when things are obviously left vague in an attempt to get the audience thinking. Leviathan is a good example of a DLC that gets makes you want to analyze things with a fine-toothed comb. It makes you ask questions... What are the Leviathans? How are they connected to the Reapers? How did indoctrination evolve?...etc.

Omega isn't about asking questions or getting answers. It's pretty much an action based DLC that also focuses on characterization. At least, that is what the Dev blog states it as. So if they wanted us to analyze anything, it should be about Aria and her relationship with Omega and Cerberus.

Also, not EVERYTHING is symbolic or open to such wild interpretation. In fact I could easily imagine (with little effort) that:

Aria= Shepherd (ousted from her home, and desperately wanting to unite the mercenary gangs to TAKE BACK OMEGA) In the end she can be either Paragon or Renegade in how she defeats the enemy

Cerberus = The Reapers (occupying Omega)

Omega = Earth

Nyreen= Anderson leading the resistance on Omega(Earth) and who also dies a heroic death.

And Shepherd/The player = The crucible/catalyst that (with Aria's help) saves the day with the option of altering the variables from renagade to paragon

I just pulled this out of my **** but the parallels do seem to fit. Probably better than your analogy too XD

Ultimately, if you try to treat everything in the game/movie/story as a symbol for something else, then you are going to ruin the internal consistancy just as if you would if you took everything literally. That's english 101 by the way =P

Also from a developer point of view, making an action DLC after Leviathan (a speculation DLC) makes a lot of sense when you want to try and please your audience in the widest way possible. 

Look, I'm not trying to be insulting... a bit snarky maybe XD But ultimately I think you are doing right by analyzing the game for symbols and metaphor, but I just wholeheartedly think that the entire Omega DLC was made to be pretty litteral in its interpretation.

[D.Sharrah]

masster blaster wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

So, thinking about Omega today and was watching some clips with Nyreen just to see her in movement rather than a still. A still pic doesn't do her justice IMO. Anyway, I got to the part where Aria said Nyreen was too predictable because she wanted to save everyone, then it's reinforced when Nyreen asks Shepard " let me guess, she said I was too predictable."

To me:
Aria= Harbinger/Reapers
Nyreen=Shep

Now I know Nyreen is Lawful stupid but hear me out. The Reapers know Shepard is predicable. Shepard will do all he/she can to save the galaxy, whether Renegade or Paragon. They also know Shepard never had any children and might be feeling that regret hence Anderson saying he never had a family and the Reapers haunting Shepard with a child Shepard had grown attached to while sitting it out on his/her 6 month suspension. Shepard probably saw that kid playing there a lot, or even just that one time, and thought about having kids someday when everything with the Reapers was over. Most people have an urge to nurture a younger being and bring them up and teach them. It's ingrained in our DNA.

So, if the Reapers know Shepard is predictable, they are counting on Shepard to try to save everyone, hence Control and Synthesis. Since Shepard (and we) are walking through Shepard's brain metaphorically ( entrance is spinal cord, collector corridor is the aymgdala, Shadow broker ship is the synapses firing in the middle of the brain with the bridge being the area where the two lobes are separated, up to the Freudian Trio in the frontal lobe and further up into the frontal lobe where the decision chamber is), Destroy is the last bit of resistance left in Shepard, literally the last SHRED of Shepard left that hasn't been co-opted yet. Starbinger tries to dissuade you from it because Destroy is probably Shepard's last chance to push back, Shepard's last bit of willpower measured by EMS. But in Destroy, Shepard does what Starbinger doesn't predict.

If it was up to Starbinger, Destroy wouldn't even be there, because Starbinger is using Shepard's mind and memories to create this space because, (once again) Harbinger is made of Leviathans and can do what Leviathans can do only probably more intensely since he is made of millions, perhaps billions of Leviathans. You saw what one Leviathan can do. Now just multiply that and the kind of mindspace Harbinger can create is beyond what any single Leviathan can make.

Anyway, TLDR, Aria is Harbinger, Nyreen is Shepard. Harbinger is canny and thinks Shepard is predictable ( "struggle if you wish. Your mind will be mine" ). Perhaps Shepard is predictable since Shepard rallies everyone to Earth right into the maw of the Reapers. But Destroy is what Harbinger can't predict and what makes Shepard special. It's that willpower and charisma that Shepard has always had to control situations, stay cool under pressure, and sway others to his/her way of thinking (something Harbinger desperately wants because Charisma and Willpower is less harmful than the indoctrination process). Destroy is the middle finger to Harbinger, saying " I'm not as f***ing predictable as you think I am. "

Anyway, this is just a metaphor to foreshadow the ending that I saw in Omega. I think Omega goes a lot deeper than we think. This shows me again that Bioware are not bad writers. They know how to set up characters and situations that mirror and foreshadow other characters and situations and to set up metaphors that are inspiring and amazing at a second glance.. This is A+ writing in my book.

I can actually see the similarity's, although I haven't played Omega yet.

BatmanTurian: That is truly an awesome piece of analysis.  It really does fit well....there is a part that I don't like...

*SPOLIER ALERT*

If we assume that Nyreen does represent Shep, then it suggests that in order for victory to be achived - and to protect those that Shep is trying to protect - he may have to sacrifice himself just as Nyreen did.

*SPOILING DONE*

Which I don't like one bit - Shep's sacrificed enough...and I want to see my blue babies, d@*) !$!!!

[BatmanTurian]

acidic-ph0 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

acidic-ph0 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So anything new lately guys/gals?

Top!

http://social.biowar...7/2215#15117997

Dude, not everything is related to the ending or indoctrination.

Omega is for all intents and purposes, a standalone action based DLC with a side emphasis on building Aria's character. All these metaphors you're drawing from it are quite farfetched. Sometimes when you hear hoofsteps think horse not zebra.

That being said I like a lot of the brainstorming that goes on in this thread, but some of  the stuff that you guys come up with is kinda silly. I really don't mean any offense by this, but trying to draw an indoctrination metaphor from Omega really is grasping at straws =/

Just my opinion of course.

Mass Effect is fiction and you analyze fiction for hidden meaning and metaphors. This is English 101. You sound silly yourself telling us we should not look for hidden meaning in a story constructed by a person rather than a real event that just happens randomly.

I never said not to be analytical. In fact I encourage it, especially when things are obviously left vague in an attempt to get the audience thinking. Leviathan is a good example of a DLC that gets makes you want to analyze things with a fine-toothed comb. It makes you ask questions... What are the Leviathans? How are they connected to the Reapers? How did indoctrination evolve?...etc.

Omega isn't about asking questions or getting answers. It's pretty much an action based DLC that also focuses on characterization. At least, that is what the Dev blog states it as. So if they wanted us to analyze anything, it should be about Aria and her relationship with Omega and Cerberus.

Also, not EVERYTHING is symbolic or open to such wild interpretation. In fact I could easily imagine (with little effort) that:

Aria= Shepherd (ousted from her home, and desperately wanting to unite the mercenary gangs to TAKE BACK OMEGA) In the end she can be either Paragon or Renegade in how she defeats the enemy

Cerberus = The Reapers (occupying Omega)

Omega = Earth

Nyreen= Anderson leading the resistance on Omega(Earth) and who also dies a heroic death.

And Shepherd/The player = The crucible/catalyst that (with Aria's help) saves the day with the option of altering the variables from renagade to paragon

I just pulled this out of my **** but the parallels do seem to fit. Probably better than your analogy too XD

Ultimately, if you try to treat everything in the game/movie/story as a symbol for something else, then you are going to ruin the internal consistancy just as if you would if you took everything literally. That's english 101 by the way =P

Also from a developer point of view, making an action DLC after Leviathan (a speculation DLC) makes a lot of sense when you want to try and please your audience in the widest way possible. 

Look, I'm not trying to be insulting... a bit snarky maybe XD But ultimately I think you are doing right by analyzing the game for symbols and metaphor, but I just wholeheartedly think that the entire Omega DLC was made to be pretty litteral in its interpretation.

Well that may be your opinion, but I disagree seeing as how there are numerous parallels we have uncovered long before I made that post. but you will probably dismiss those too. Subtlety in good fiction is wasted on those who can't see it.

[BatmanTurian]

D.Sharrah wrote...

BatmanTurian: That is truly an awesome piece of analysis.  It really does fit well....there is a part that I don't like...

*SPOLIER ALERT*

If we assume that Nyreen does represent Shep, then it suggests that in order for victory to be achived - and to protect those that Shep is trying to protect - he may have to sacrifice himself just as Nyreen did.

*SPOILING DONE*

Which I don't like one bit - Shep's sacrificed enough...and I want to see my blue babies, d@*) !$!!!

I agree and that part troubles me. Perhaps Shepard's story really is over and in Destroy you simply shoot yourself and wake up a vegetable. Depressing to think about but bittersweet and possible.

[acidic-ph0]

Rankincountry wrote...


Exactly. And I wish this effing "grasping at straws" meme would die along with its inbred cousin "bad writing". No-one here is "grasping at straws". No one desperately needs to believe in Bioware's genius. We're simply having an enjoyable and intelligent discourse about a work of fiction that we enjoy. It's part of the fun and pleasure of fiction of whatever medium and turns an essentially solitary pursuit into a shared experience. If you want to disagree, by all means do so. It's entirely possible that my interpretation of the ending is, in some objective sense, wrong and I'm always happy to concede to a superior argument. But all you've done is stick your head into the thread to snark and that's rude. Using memes and clichés just makes you look unimaginative, not clever, by the way.

Dude chill out and have a cookie or something =P

Yeah I'm snarky, but that's just how I am because I don't always take everything too seriously. I don't mean any offense by it, and if you get butthurt then I'm sorry but that's your problem.

And I'm not trying to be clever by saying that some of these supposed metaphors are "grasping at straws", I'm just saying that not everything should be taken as a symbol just as some things shouldn't be taken literally. Good Sci-Fi writing has both in order for internal consistency to be maintained. 

Also, the term grasping at straws is not a meme or a cliche. Please look up the definition of those words before you use them =3

It's an idiom. An idiom that implys that one is making a decission (or in this case an interpretation) without enough information or resources to really back the argument up.  

[demersel]

Rankincountry wrote...

I think it is deffinitly the one to check out personally, because it can play out really different, depending on how you play it. Watching someone else play it doesn't really give such a satisfaction. 

whether or not you should buy it - i don't know. There is a lot of action in it. But the story is also there and it is good. Te dialogs are very good.  The set pieces are great. 

[The Heretic of Time]

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Hey guys, you know what I've alway wondered about since the EC but I've never seen discussed anywhere?
At the end of the EC track "An End Once And For All" at 4:17:
http://www.youtube.c...v_g_zQkY#t=257s
It seems to go on a loop but increasing in volume then the track suddenly stops.
It sounds incompleat.

It doesn't sound incomplete at all. The track ends nicely. The original "An End for Once And For All" that played during the original ending felt incomplete though.

Another thing I've knowest was in ME3, there is no victory theme. The one that plays after beating ME1 and ME2:

This theme is also in ME3. It plays during the assault on Earth when you see all your war assets coming through the Charon relay.

Here is a link to the ME3 version of the victory theme: 

It's something I see as an unintentional hint to the player of an IT after the ending type DLC and this would be the final "victory theme" of ME3. A fusion of "An End Once And For All" and the "victory theme" from ME2.
http://www.youtube.c...pva82rHlo#t=44s

And as I just pointed out, the "victory theme" is already present in ME3. I also just posted a link to it in this comment.

Edit: There are actually 2 versions of the "victory theme" in ME3. Here is a link tot he 2nd version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXYzJCuwthg&feature=share&list=ELNlmY7weIGEI

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 01 décembre 2012 - 12:19 .

[Andromidius]

D.Sharrah wrote...

BatmanTurian: That is truly an awesome piece of analysis.  It really does fit well....there is a part that I don't like...

*SPOLIER ALERT*

If we assume that Nyreen does represent Shep, then it suggests that in order for victory to be achived - and to protect those that Shep is trying to protect - he may have to sacrifice himself just as Nyreen did.

*SPOILING DONE*

Which I don't like one bit - Shep's sacrificed enough...and I want to see my blue babies, d@*) !$!!!

Or how about, alternatively...

Shepard shouldn't sacrifice him/herself pointlessly 'for the cause' when waiting a little longer might bring a better solution.

[Rankincountry]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

Exactly. And I wish this effing "grasping at straws" meme would die along with its inbred cousin "bad writing". No-one here is "grasping at straws". No one desperately needs to believe in Bioware's genius. We're simply having an enjoyable and intelligent discourse about a work of fiction that we enjoy. It's part of the fun and pleasure of fiction of whatever medium and turns an essentially solitary pursuit into a shared experience. If you want to disagree, by all means do so. It's entirely possible that my interpretation of the ending is, in some objective sense, wrong and I'm always happy to concede to a superior argument. But all you've done is stick your head into the thread to snark and that's rude. Using memes and clichés just makes you look unimaginative, not clever, by the way.

I agree, although I would have kept the struck out part to myself just to be nice. I'm a bulldog sometimes too and it's hard to keep it in some days. But I understand your frustration completely and said as much in a textwall some pages back that was largely ignored.

You're probably right. It's no excuse but I've had a bit of a long week and no time to just hang out in forums and such, and I shouldn't have let that one slip out. I do try to bite my virtual tongue most of the time because it's the internet, it's hard to read true tone/intent and I'm (hopefully) not an essentially rude person.

I think part of it is that there is so much snobbery and misinformed opinion about games amongst the media and non-gamers, and there is a more general meme that all writing and storytelling in games is of poor quality - maybe connected to the whole silly argument about whether games are art or not (my opinion? no idea, I just like games). OK, so I don't think anyone is going to be talking about CD Projeckt or Bioware or Obsidian or Eidos Montreal (not to mention various Indie studios bringing out gems like Gemini Rue) in the same breath as Shakespeare any time soon, but to suggest that there isn't quality writing about is a bit silly.

I guess it's the same sort of thing as the belief that genre fiction is somehow always less valid than literary fiction, another pet peeve of mine. Most of my friends, family and colleagues are non-gamers and a lot of them think that there is something wrong with a 38 year old man not just enjoying, but having an actual passion for what they see as a kids' pastime. So when gamers themselves start entrenching opinions and slinging mud at each other it cheeses me right off. Yes, there's more important things in the world but this is part of the fabric of who I am, and I can't even explain it to the people closest to me.