80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromidius]

Any 'adult' who sees a passtime as 'childish' in a negative manner needs to grow up emotionally. We're all different, after all, and I don't judge people for watching a television showing two dozen men chase each other around a field for an hour or so.

...okay, maybe I do.

[Golferguy758]

Andromidius wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

BatmanTurian: That is truly an awesome piece of analysis.  It really does fit well....there is a part that I don't like...

*SPOLIER ALERT*

If we assume that Nyreen does represent Shep, then it suggests that in order for victory to be achived - and to protect those that Shep is trying to protect - he may have to sacrifice himself just as Nyreen did.

*SPOILING DONE*

Which I don't like one bit - Shep's sacrificed enough...and I want to see my blue babies, d@*) !$!!!

Or how about, alternatively...

Shepard shouldn't sacrifice him/herself pointlessly 'for the cause' when waiting a little longer might bring a better solution.

Like...

[CmdrShep80]

magnetite wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There's some cut dialogue from Zaeed about hunting Vido down.

I've no idea why it was cut or if it counts as canon.

If I recall, didn't we blow up his gunship during the loyalty mission? He's dead, I believe.

plus its not cut nyou just have to listen to Zaeed tell his stories after each mission

[BatmanTurian]

acidic-ph0 wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...


Exactly. And I wish this effing "grasping at straws" meme would die along with its inbred cousin "bad writing". No-one here is "grasping at straws". No one desperately needs to believe in Bioware's genius. We're simply having an enjoyable and intelligent discourse about a work of fiction that we enjoy. It's part of the fun and pleasure of fiction of whatever medium and turns an essentially solitary pursuit into a shared experience. If you want to disagree, by all means do so. It's entirely possible that my interpretation of the ending is, in some objective sense, wrong and I'm always happy to concede to a superior argument. But all you've done is stick your head into the thread to snark and that's rude. Using memes and clichés just makes you look unimaginative, not clever, by the way.

Dude chill out and have a cookie or something =P

Yeah I'm snarky, but that's just how I am because I don't always take everything too seriously. I don't mean any offense by it, and if you get butthurt then I'm sorry but that's your problem.

And I'm not trying to be clever by saying that some of these supposed metaphors are "grasping at straws", I'm just saying that not everything should be taken as a symbol just as some things shouldn't be taken literally. Good Sci-Fi writing has both in order for internal consistency to be maintained. 

Also, the term grasping at straws is not a meme or a cliche. Please look up the definition of those words before you use them =3

It's an idiom. An idiom that implys that one is making a decission (or in this case an interpretation) without enough information or resources to really back the argument up.  

You are looking for the scientific evidence for a metaphor analysis of a piece of literature. This is an impossible standard for literary analysis. Show me the evidence that George Milton and Lennie Small do not represent the adult man having to murder his inner child to adapt and survive in a selfish, hostile world in Of Mice and Men. Show me the evidence that Atticus Finch doesn't represent a pinnicle of human morality tempted to violate his own values by Bob Ewell in To Kill a Mockingbird. You can't. This is literary theory, not something scientific because we are not studying a randomly moving world but a world created by a human being who places each sentence, description, and line in the story purposefully. Your approach to a piece of literature ignores the process of how what actually goes into literature is put there and why.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 01 décembre 2012 - 12:27 .

[CmdrShep80]

RavenEyry wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

Guys....there are stupid fanboys just in the Italian forums? Please tell me that you have them too

It's the internet, there are stupid people hiding around every corner, waiting to strike.

+1

[byne]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

magnetite wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There's some cut dialogue from Zaeed about hunting Vido down.

I've no idea why it was cut or if it counts as canon.

If I recall, didn't we blow up his gunship during the loyalty mission? He's dead, I believe.

plus its not cut nyou just have to listen to Zaeed tell his stories after each mission

I've done that through 10 playthroughs, and never once has he actually said it. I think you're wrong here.

[Andromidius]

BatmanTurian wrote...
You are looking for the scientific evidence for a metaphor analysis of a piece of literature. This is an impossible standard for literary analysis. Show me the evidence that George Milton and Lennie Small do not represent the adult man having to murder his inner child to adapt and survive in a selfish, hostile world in Of Mice and Men. Show me the evidence that Atticus Finch doesn't represent a pinnicle of human morality tempted to violate his own values by Bob Ewell in To Kill a Mockingbird. You can't. This is literary theory, not something scientific because we are not studying a randomly moving world but a world created by a human being who places each sentence, description, and line in the story purposefully. Your approach to a piece of literature ignores the process of how what actually goes into literature is put there and why.

That being said, you can look for scientific evidence with an in-universe perspective.  It makes perfect sense in the Mass Effect universe that exposure to Element Zero may result in a baby developing Biotic powers, for example.

But in general, yes.  You have to look at the literary evidence, the themes and characterisations.

[BatmanTurian]

Rankincountry wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

Exactly. And I wish this effing "grasping at straws" meme would die along with its inbred cousin "bad writing". No-one here is "grasping at straws". No one desperately needs to believe in Bioware's genius. We're simply having an enjoyable and intelligent discourse about a work of fiction that we enjoy. It's part of the fun and pleasure of fiction of whatever medium and turns an essentially solitary pursuit into a shared experience. If you want to disagree, by all means do so. It's entirely possible that my interpretation of the ending is, in some objective sense, wrong and I'm always happy to concede to a superior argument. But all you've done is stick your head into the thread to snark and that's rude. Using memes and clichés just makes you look unimaginative, not clever, by the way.

I agree, although I would have kept the struck out part to myself just to be nice. I'm a bulldog sometimes too and it's hard to keep it in some days. But I understand your frustration completely and said as much in a textwall some pages back that was largely ignored.

You're probably right. It's no excuse but I've had a bit of a long week and no time to just hang out in forums and such, and I shouldn't have let that one slip out. I do try to bite my virtual tongue most of the time because it's the internet, it's hard to read true tone/intent and I'm (hopefully) not an essentially rude person.

I think part of it is that there is so much snobbery and misinformed opinion about games amongst the media and non-gamers, and there is a more general meme that all writing and storytelling in games is of poor quality - maybe connected to the whole silly argument about whether games are art or not (my opinion? no idea, I just like games). OK, so I don't think anyone is going to be talking about CD Projeckt or Bioware or Obsidian or Eidos Montreal (not to mention various Indie studios bringing out gems like Gemini Rue) in the same breath as Shakespeare any time soon, but to suggest that there isn't quality writing about is a bit silly.

I guess it's the same sort of thing as the belief that genre fiction is somehow always less valid than literary fiction, another pet peeve of mine. Most of my friends, family and colleagues are non-gamers and a lot of them think that there is something wrong with a 38 year old man not just enjoying, but having an actual passion for what they see as a kids' pastime. So when gamers themselves start entrenching opinions and slinging mud at each other it cheeses me right off. Yes, there's more important things in the world but this is part of the fabric of who I am, and I can't even explain it to the people closest to me.

Couldn't agree more with every sentence you wrote..

[CmdrShep80]

Has any of you noticed the various areas on omega where an explosion happens and you're thrown backwards for a bit. Notice the scenes slowing down and the sound going away just for a second or two?

[BansheeOwnage]

Question to all people who think Bioware went with IT:
From 1 to 10, how likely is it there will be a reveal?

4 pages until I close the thread again?

[Krimzie]

Rankincountry wrote...
OK, so I don't think anyone is going to be talking about CD Projeckt or Bioware or Obsidian or Eidos Montreal (not to mention various Indie studios bringing out gems like Gemini Rue) in the same breath as Shakespeare any time soon

LOL! This is awesome as I start my final draft for my thesis wherein I argue Hamlet is an avatar character and make references to the Hamlet jokes in ME1 and 2... it's works perfectly, I swear...

Anyway, as you were. I've got to get back to that research...



PS -- Hi everyone! 

[BatmanTurian]

Andromidius wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
You are looking for the scientific evidence for a metaphor analysis of a piece of literature. This is an impossible standard for literary analysis. Show me the evidence that George Milton and Lennie Small do not represent the adult man having to murder his inner child to adapt and survive in a selfish, hostile world in Of Mice and Men. Show me the evidence that Atticus Finch doesn't represent a pinnicle of human morality tempted to violate his own values by Bob Ewell in To Kill a Mockingbird. You can't. This is literary theory, not something scientific because we are not studying a randomly moving world but a world created by a human being who places each sentence, description, and line in the story purposefully. Your approach to a piece of literature ignores the process of how what actually goes into literature is put there and why.

That being said, you can look for scientific evidence with an in-universe perspective.  It makes perfect sense in the Mass Effect universe that exposure to Element Zero may result in a baby developing Biotic powers, for example.

But in general, yes.  You have to look at the literary evidence, the themes and characterisations.

Of course, in-universe scientific evidence is important. But it goes hand-in-hand with themes, metaphors, etc.

[Andromidius]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Has any of you noticed the various areas on omega where an explosion happens and you're thrown backwards for a bit. Notice the scenes slowing down and the sound going away just for a second or two?

I did notice that, actually.  The explosions when Aria goes on the warpath actually stun Shepard for a moment or two.  Its quite disorienting, just like an explosion would be.

[BatmanTurian]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Question to all people who think Bioware went with IT:
From 1 to 10, how likely is it there will be a reveal?

4 pages until I close the thread again?

I give it an uneasy 7

[CmdrShep80]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

demersel wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Replaying omega again. The scene in the reactor where Aria and Nyreen are trapped is simply brilliant. Its my favorite scene in the dlc by far.

What did you do?

The first time I played through it I was so close to hitting the button. But then I realized how closely this scene mirrored the decision chamber. So I didnt press the button.

the odd thing about the reactor is Destroy reactor is a renegade interrupt. Doing nothing is a paragon interrupt. The end, destroy reapers is supposed to be a renegade interrupt. Which is the paragon interrupt?

[byne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Question to all people who think Bioware went with IT:
From 1 to 10, how likely is it there will be a reveal?

4 pages until I close the thread again?

7.5

[demersel]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

5

Modifié par demersel, 01 décembre 2012 - 12:33 .

[masster blaster]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Question to all people who think Bioware went with IT:
From 1 to 10, how likely is it there will be a reveal?

4 pages until I close the thread again?

8.5

Nope you not going to be the one to close it. it will be me.

[acidic-ph0]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Well that may be your opinion, but I disagree seeing as how there are numerous parallels we have uncovered long before I made that post. but you will probably dismiss those too. Subtlety in good fiction is wasted on those who can't see it.

Lol passive aggressiveness XD That's cute... 

How about this then... http://tvtropes.org/...nItsNotDidactic


Accepting some things at face value is actually a GOOD thing sometimes. It allows some semblance of reality to exist in the game world. Remember, Mass Effect isn't Inception and I mean that in the litteral sense. It is not a franchise that relies on an abundance of symbolism and metaphor, just enough to make the audience think but not overanalyze everything to a point of absurdity. Basically it has peaks and valleys of litteral and symbolic interpretations and I'm pretty sure Omega is the former... Hell just look at the advertising for it. Pretty clear to me that it wasn't being sold to the role-playing audience and was more inclined to hook the PewPew crowd instead.

If you don't mind indulging me, was my asspull, metaphorical interpretation of Aria and Omega invalid as a metaphor? Have I missed anything? I would like to know if you think that your interpretation has any more credence than mine.

[Andromidius]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

demersel wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Replaying omega again. The scene in the reactor where Aria and Nyreen are trapped is simply brilliant. Its my favorite scene in the dlc by far.

What did you do?

The first time I played through it I was so close to hitting the button. But then I realized how closely this scene mirrored the decision chamber. So I didnt press the button.

the odd thing about the reactor is Destroy reactor is a renegade interrupt. Doing nothing is a paragon interrupt. The end, destroy reapers is supposed to be a renegade interrupt. Which is the paragon interrupt?

Probably letting the timer count down and getting the message "The Reapers have destroyed the Crucible".

[Andromidius]

acidic-ph0 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Well that may be your opinion, but I disagree seeing as how there are numerous parallels we have uncovered long before I made that post. but you will probably dismiss those too. Subtlety in good fiction is wasted on those who can't see it.

Lol passive aggressiveness XD That's cute... 

How about this then... http://tvtropes.org/...nItsNotDidactic


Accepting some things at face value is actually a GOOD thing sometimes. It allows some semblance of reality to exist in the game world. Remember, Mass Effect isn't Inception and I mean that in the litteral sense. It is not a franchise that relies on an abundance of symbolism and metaphor, just enough to make the audience think but not overanalyze everything to a point of absurdity. Basically it has peaks and valleys of litteral and symbolic interpretations and I'm pretty sure Omega is the former... Hell just look at the advertising for it. Pretty clear to me that it wasn't being sold to the role-playing audience and was more inclined to hook the PewPew crowd instead.

If you don't mind indulging me, was my asspull, metaphorical interpretation of Aria and Omega invalid as a metaphor? Have I missed anything? I would like to know if you think that your interpretation has any more credence than mine.

Though of course Bioware did state some parts of ME3 shouldn't be taken literally.  Its just up for grabs which bits they were referring to.

[acidic-ph0]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Question to all people who think Bioware went with IT:
From 1 to 10, how likely is it there will be a reveal?

5 

Maybe, maybe not...

[byne]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

demersel wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Replaying omega again. The scene in the reactor where Aria and Nyreen are trapped is simply brilliant. Its my favorite scene in the dlc by far.

What did you do?

The first time I played through it I was so close to hitting the button. But then I realized how closely this scene mirrored the decision chamber. So I didnt press the button.

the odd thing about the reactor is Destroy reactor is a renegade interrupt. Doing nothing is a paragon interrupt. The end, destroy reapers is supposed to be a renegade interrupt. Which is the paragon interrupt?

Doing nothing is just paragon. Not a paragon interrupt. There is a paragon interrupt where you reroute the power or whatever it is you're doing instantly, but only engineers get that.

[BansheeOwnage]

Krimzie wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...
OK, so I don't think anyone is going to be talking about CD Projeckt or Bioware or Obsidian or Eidos Montreal (not to mention various Indie studios bringing out gems like Gemini Rue) in the same breath as Shakespeare any time soon

LOL! This is awesome as I start my final draft for my thesis wherein I argue Hamlet is an avatar character and make references to the Hamlet jokes in ME1 and 2... it's works perfectly, I swear...

Anyway, as you were. I've got to get back to that research...



PS -- Hi everyone! 

Hi! I just started reading Hamlet in English.

I'm on top!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 01 décembre 2012 - 12:36 .

[masster blaster]

What I always found funny is the child on Earth is telling " Shepard you can't help me?"

Why not?

What I also find funny is that Anderson never ask Shepard.

" who are you talking to" plus the kid is gone when your Shepard turns around for about 5 seconds, and find the kid gone. Now the child show have made sounds when he was leaving because when Liara is in the vent in Mars. You can hear clanks of metal when Liara is trying to move away from the gun fire.

Also the brat just magically so happens to appear when Shepard is about to leave Earth. And looks around and looks up at Shepard. Then a Destroyer Reaper comes, and the kid get's scared and goes towards the shuttle. Now what's funny is that when the kid says.

" You can't help me" well look at the shuttle scene. Nobody helps the child. The child get's on the shuttle on his own. Symbolizing that he doesn't need help from anyone.

Now when you look at the end. The Catalyst is in the form of the child. And he ask for Shepard's help. Now think about the child on Earth.

Child:" You can't help me."

Again the child on Earth doesn't need help, and the Catalyst/ Reaper leader is asking for Shepard's help in the form of a child that didn't need Shepard's help.

So if you take symbolism into account. The Catalyst does not need Shepard's help at all. Again Child on Earth doesn't need Shepard's help. The Catalyst needs Shepard's help, but takes the form of the child that doesn't need Shepard's help.

This also goes for the dream/ nightmares.

Shepard sees the child that died on Earth in his/her dreams right, but every time we get close to the child he runs away. Symbolizing you can't catch me/ help me. Thus we see the child burn.

Now in the last dream we see the brat in brace our Shepard, but a dream version of Shepard. Now what's funny is now the brat needs Shepard. But I thought the child didn't need help, but wait the Catalyst does.

To add on to my last post.

The catalyst took the form of the child why?

Why did he?

The writers wrote the child on Earth as " you can't help me"/ not needing any help. The catalyst takes the form of the child that doesn't need help. Bioware knew that the kid on Earth was symbolic in a sense. The reason could be why they pick the Catalyst to take the form of the child is because the Catalyst does't need help.

In other words. Catalyst does not need Shepard's help. Almost everything he is telling you is a lie. What I mean is the epilogues are an illusion to keep Shepard in la la land, and either bleed out in Destroy or refuse, or become Indoctrinated in Control, and Synthesis.

However because Shepard stuck with Destroying the Reapers, which was the point, he/she wakes up do to the will power, and readiness we prepared Shepard.