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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#55501
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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byne wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

Huh... yknow the man and woman in ME1 arguing about what to do with their baby?

Their last name is Petrovsky.

Oh my. And her husband is dead. Or so she thinks. Posted Image


I'm sure it's just bad writing or coincidence or some mix-up. Surely these stories are not planned. Bioware sticks ideas on a board and throws darts at them. Surely there is no way Mass Effect is at all a visual novel series patiently and carefully crafted.


Nah, Joker's sister isn't killed by as asari. Nah. Nope. Bad writing. -Wiki


Does Word of God not count for the Wiki? Because I'm pretty sure Weekes confirmed that it was indeed Joker's sister.


No.

Joker has to say: "Damn I found out that specific asari in the hospital killed my sister!"
And then the ghost of the PTSD asari (if you gave gun) appears and goes: "Yes. I did it. I killed his sister."

We might need more proof, but that's a start.

#55502
Dwailing

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Huh, intriguing: https://twitter.com/...639769282150400

Edit: This is also interesting: https://twitter.com/...611971217821696

Modifié par Dwailing, 01 décembre 2012 - 01:22 .


#55503
Rifneno

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byne wrote...

Does Word of God not count for the Wiki? Because I'm pretty sure Weekes confirmed that it was indeed Joker's sister.


Of course not!  You think something as reliable as a wikia would besmurch their good name by taking the word of the writers at face value?! :whistle:

#55504
BatmanTurian

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Rifneno wrote...

Oh, as for the Petrovsky thing, good eye. Dead father's name was Jacob (no Jacob in Mass Effect will stick around after porking you, even if he has to die to get away) and baby is named after his late father, so presumably he too will be spreading VD across the galaxy in a couple decades.

Easter egg is most likely. I noticed in Grissom Academy that Cerberus said something over the loudspeaker to a Holly Merizan. An obvious reference to Jessica Merizan, the... hell, I forget what her title is. Something about the community. Anyway, Jacob still sucks.


The first unavoidable quarter of ME2 is ruined by Jacob. It's telling when I can handle Ice Queen B**** Cerberus Cheerleader better than Boring African-American Stereotype In Space.

#55505
DoomsdayDevice

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

Question to all people who think Bioware went with IT:
From 1 to 10, how likely is it there will be a reveal?


Never thought I'd say this:

10

#55506
CmdrShep80

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Aria:  Walk around with you for a few hours and I go all soft.  You're like a disease

Aria:  You sound like someone trying to sell something.  I admire your tenacity

#55507
Andromidius

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Rifneno wrote...

Oh, as for the Petrovsky thing, good eye. Dead father's name was Jacob (no Jacob in Mass Effect will stick around after porking you, even if he has to die to get away) and baby is named after his late father, so presumably he too will be spreading VD across the galaxy in a couple decades.

Easter egg is most likely. I noticed in Grissom Academy that Cerberus said something over the loudspeaker to a Holly Merizan. An obvious reference to Jessica Merizan, the... hell, I forget what her title is. Something about the community. Anyway, Jacob still sucks.


Community Manager?

And yeah, maybe just an Easter Egg.  But it seems quite relivent now, for Omega.  Do we know how the father died, maybe he was killed by aliens and thus pushed Oleg further into Cerberus's hands?

Speculation ahoy.

Oh, and agreed.  Second Easter Egg with another Jacob who sucks.

#55508
BatmanTurian

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SwobyJ wrote...

byne wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

Huh... yknow the man and woman in ME1 arguing about what to do with their baby?

Their last name is Petrovsky.

Oh my. And her husband is dead. Or so she thinks. Posted Image


I'm sure it's just bad writing or coincidence or some mix-up. Surely these stories are not planned. Bioware sticks ideas on a board and throws darts at them. Surely there is no way Mass Effect is at all a visual novel series patiently and carefully crafted.


Nah, Joker's sister isn't killed by as asari. Nah. Nope. Bad writing. -Wiki


Does Word of God not count for the Wiki? Because I'm pretty sure Weekes confirmed that it was indeed Joker's sister.


No.

Joker has to say: "Damn I found out that specific asari in the hospital killed my sister!"
And then the ghost of the PTSD asari (if you gave gun) appears and goes: "Yes. I did it. I killed his sister."

We might need more proof, but that's a start.


That would be as ridiculous as everyone getting new DNA and making friends with the Reapers.

#55509
CmdrShep80

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Remember how someone was talking about how Shepard was a walking disesase spreading indoctrination and selling charisma to people to get them to do what he wanted?

#55510
Dwailing

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Oh, as for the Petrovsky thing, good eye. Dead father's name was Jacob (no Jacob in Mass Effect will stick around after porking you, even if he has to die to get away) and baby is named after his late father, so presumably he too will be spreading VD across the galaxy in a couple decades.

Easter egg is most likely. I noticed in Grissom Academy that Cerberus said something over the loudspeaker to a Holly Merizan. An obvious reference to Jessica Merizan, the... hell, I forget what her title is. Something about the community. Anyway, Jacob still sucks.


The first unavoidable quarter of ME2 is ruined by Jacob. It's telling when I can handle Ice Queen B**** Cerberus Cheerleader better than Boring African-American Stereotype In Space.


Sheesh, what's with all the Jacob hate?  He's really not that bad... unless you romanced him, which only happens if you didn't romance Garrus, who's totally better in every way.

#55511
CmdrShep80

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

Aria:  Walk around with you for a few hours and I go all soft.  You're like a disease

Aria:  You sound like someone trying to sell something.  I admire your tenacity


Remember how someone said that Shepard was walking around like a disease trying to sell people his charisma trying to get him to do what he wanted?

(it got lost already LOL)

#55512
acidic-ph0

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BatmanTurian wrote...

I was actually being polite, not passive aggressive. I've dealt with snarky people like you, since I am a regular on FARK.com and a veteran of 4chan (not that that should be something to be proud of), so please keep it to yourself.

Your statement that mass effect doesn't rely on symbolism and metaphor is ignorant and totally wrong. There is pewpew but there is story too, and you're ignoring the story purely for pewpew.

Your metaphor had some problems, but your point was to make my literary analysis look foolish, which was foolish by itself in a discussion board for discussing the story. I have no comment because you don't even believe your own metaphor.


Wow man, you really haven't been reading my posts XD Or I guess I should say, you haven't been analyzing them very well XD

I never said Mass Effect is devoid of symbolism. Yeah that would be retarded. What I did say, and I'll bold this so you can see it better.  It is not a franchise that relies on an abundance of symbolism and metaphor, just enough to make the audience think but not overanalyze everything to a point of absurdity.

Also, I didn't say Omega lacked a story, just that it catered far more to those who want action based gameplay. In fact it did have a pretty poor excuse for a story... It was mainly a means to develope Aria's character, as well as the character of Omega (the dark citadel). Again, these are things that the devs themselves have openly stated as their main goal in creating the DLC. 

There is such a thing as overanalysis, and like I said before such a thing is more detrimental to understanding a story than to just take some things litteraly. And making your analysis look foolish wasn't my goal. I think you accomplished that already XD Seriously, you almost sound like you're viewing the entire game as occuring in the Geth consensus or something similar, where everything is representative as something else. It's clear you have a very analytical mind and I can respect that. But I think it would be put to better use on something that the game clearly points to having a hidden meaning, rather than Omega being a reinterpretation of the ending. Note, I also want to state once again, that although I believe that Omega is literrally a basic action setpiece, that is not to say that certain elements of the DLC aren't enlightening to Aria. If anything I would expect someone like you to be analyzing Aria's character throughout the DLC as that is the main focus. 

And on a side note, no I don't believe my own metaphor but that doesn't mean I can't defend it! And there in lies the only difference between you and me. We can both fabricate some sort of hidden meaning behind Omega, but I just don't believe that one actually exists. Can both be valid if each interpretation can be defended with "obvious parallels"?

And finally, Litterary analysis and scientific (well I was really focusing on business) analysis aren't mutually exclusive especially when dealing with a blockbuster Sci-Fi game. In fact the two sometimes blend wonderfully together as a type of pacing in this genre and medium, that's why it's so much fun to discuss it. My point in that regard was that from a marketing standpoint it's good to balance your DLC releases with different themes. Leviathan was the story and symbol heavy one and Omega is more or less an action packed counterpart with bits of character and lore developement. It just fits the overall narative pacing of the game and many developers release DLC with this in mind.

TLDR; I'm warning about the dangers of overanalyzing things. Not everything is a foreshadowing or a reinterpretation of the ending, especially Omega. 

Modifié par acidic-ph0, 01 décembre 2012 - 01:24 .


#55513
BatmanTurian

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

Aria:  Walk around with you for a few hours and I go all soft.  You're like a disease

Aria:  You sound like someone trying to sell something.  I admire your tenacity


Wow. But no, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. >.>

#55514
Rifneno

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Oh, as for the Petrovsky thing, good eye. Dead father's name was Jacob (no Jacob in Mass Effect will stick around after porking you, even if he has to die to get away) and baby is named after his late father, so presumably he too will be spreading VD across the galaxy in a couple decades.

Easter egg is most likely. I noticed in Grissom Academy that Cerberus said something over the loudspeaker to a Holly Merizan. An obvious reference to Jessica Merizan, the... hell, I forget what her title is. Something about the community. Anyway, Jacob still sucks.


The first unavoidable quarter of ME2 is ruined by Jacob. It's telling when I can handle Ice Queen B**** Cerberus Cheerleader better than Boring African-American Stereotype In Space.


My favorite part is when he grills Thane over loyalty.

The cheating playa gets pissy with Thane over loyalty.  what is this I dont even

#55515
umadcommander

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

Question to all people who think Bioware went with IT:
From 1 to 10, how likely is it there will be a reveal?

4 pages until I close the thread again?


7, omega did little to change my stance

#55516
BatmanTurian

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acidic-ph0 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I was actually being polite, not passive aggressive. I've dealt with snarky people like you, since I am a regular on FARK.com and a veteran of 4chan (not that that should be something to be proud of), so please keep it to yourself.

Your statement that mass effect doesn't rely on symbolism and metaphor is ignorant and totally wrong. There is pewpew but there is story too, and you're ignoring the story purely for pewpew.

Your metaphor had some problems, but your point was to make my literary analysis look foolish, which was foolish by itself in a discussion board for discussing the story. I have no comment because you don't even believe your own metaphor.


Wow man, you really haven't been reading my posts XD Or I guess I should say, you haven't been analyzing them very well XD

I never said Mass Effect is devoid of symbolism. Yeah that would be retarded. What I did say, and I'll bold this so you can see it better.  It is not a franchise that relies on an abundance of symbolism and metaphor, just enough to make the audience think but not overanalyze everything to a point of absurdity.

Also, I didn't say Omega lacked a story, just that it catered far more to those who want action based gameplay. In fact it did have a pretty poor excuse for a story... It was mainly a means to develope Aria's character, as well as the character of Omega (the dark citadel). Again, these are things that the devs themselves have openly stated as their main goal in creating the DLC. 

There is such a thing as overanalysis, and like I said before such a thing is more detrimental to understanding a story than to just take some things litteraly. And making your analysis look foolish wasn't my goal. I think you accomplished that already XD Seriously, you almost sound like you're viewing the entire game as occuring in the Geth consensus or something similar, where everything is representative as something else. It's clear you have a very analytical mind and I can respect that. But I think it would be put to better use on something that the game clearly points to having a hidden meaning, rather than Omega being a reinterpretation of the ending. Note, I also want to state once again, that although I believe that Omega is literrally a basic action setpiece, that is not to say that certain elements of the DLC aren't enlightening to Aria. If anything I would expect someone like you to be analyzing Aria's character throughout the DLC as that is the main focus. 

And on a side note, no I don't believe my own metaphor but that doesn't mean I can't defend it! And there in lies the only difference between you and me. We can both fabricate some sort of hidden meaning behind Omega, but I just don't believe that one actually exists. Can both be valid if each interpretation can be defended with "obvious parallels"?

And finally, Litterary analysis and scientific (well I was really focusing on business) analysis aren't mutually exclusive especially when dealing with a blockbuster Sci-Fi game. In fact the two sometimes blend wonderfully together as a type of pacing in this genre and medium, that's why it's so much fun to discuss it. My point in that regard was that from a marketing standpoint it's good to balance your DLC releases with different themes. Leviathan was the story and symbol heavy one and Omega is more or less an action packed counterpart with bits of character and lore developement. It just fits the overall narative pacing of the game and many developers release DLC with this in mind.

TLDR; I'm warning about the dangers of overanalyzing things. Not everything is a foreshadowing or a reinterpretation of the ending, especially Omega. 


Thereby missing the entire point of participating in a story analysis thread in a story analysis forum about a western visual novel in the form of a GoW RPG.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 01 décembre 2012 - 01:27 .


#55517
demersel

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Aria:  Walk around with you for a few hours and I go all soft.  You're like a disease

Aria:  You sound like someone trying to sell something.  I admire your tenacity


Remember how someone said that Shepard was walking around like a disease trying to sell people his charisma trying to get him to do what he wanted?

(it got lost already LOL)


It was me.  

#55518
CmdrShep80

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Aria:  My rule is reignited.  My hand is on the controls once more and I will not let go again.

Sound familiar?

Posted Image


#55519
Rifneno

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BatmanTurian wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Aria:  Walk around with you for a few hours and I go all soft.  You're like a disease

Aria:  You sound like someone trying to sell something.  I admire your tenacity


Wow. But no, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. >.>


Posted Image

#55520
BatmanTurian

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Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Oh, as for the Petrovsky thing, good eye. Dead father's name was Jacob (no Jacob in Mass Effect will stick around after porking you, even if he has to die to get away) and baby is named after his late father, so presumably he too will be spreading VD across the galaxy in a couple decades.

Easter egg is most likely. I noticed in Grissom Academy that Cerberus said something over the loudspeaker to a Holly Merizan. An obvious reference to Jessica Merizan, the... hell, I forget what her title is. Something about the community. Anyway, Jacob still sucks.


The first unavoidable quarter of ME2 is ruined by Jacob. It's telling when I can handle Ice Queen B**** Cerberus Cheerleader better than Boring African-American Stereotype In Space.


My favorite part is when he grills Thane over loyalty.

The cheating playa gets pissy with Thane over loyalty.  what is this I dont even


I wanted to punch my TV, then remembered there's mercury in it.

#55521
CmdrShep80

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demersel wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Aria:  Walk around with you for a few hours and I go all soft.  You're like a disease

Aria:  You sound like someone trying to sell something.  I admire your tenacity


Remember how someone said that Shepard was walking around like a disease trying to sell people his charisma trying to get him to do what he wanted?

(it got lost already LOL)


It was me.  


Thanks!  That'll help what you were saying

#55522
Andromidius

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acidic-ph0 wrote...
I never said Mass Effect is devoid of symbolism. Yeah that would be retarded. What I did say, and I'll bold this so you can see it better.  [b]It is not a franchise that relies on an abundance of symbolism and metaphor, just enough to make the audience think but not overanalyze everything to a point of absurdity.


I've got to say this, so don't think I'm being a jerk or anything.  But that's totally subjective. 

The symbolism is there for people who want it, but its not forced down our throats.  Much like The Matrix - it can be treated like an action flick or it can be an exploration into the human mind and a debate on what reality really is.

Personally I see a lot of symbolism, moreso in ME3 then any of the previous games.  Which is suprising for the game considered the most action-oriented of the three!

#55523
byne

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Rifneno wrote...

(no Jacob in Mass Effect will stick around after porking you, even if he has to die to get away)


This is factually accurate. There is also the Jacob on that one derelict freighter who was brain-dead and his girlfriend went crazy.

#55524
paxxton

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First on Page 2222. Posted Image

http://techland.time...ight-warp-drive

Modifié par paxxton, 01 décembre 2012 - 01:33 .


#55525
BatmanTurian

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Dwailing wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Oh, as for the Petrovsky thing, good eye. Dead father's name was Jacob (no Jacob in Mass Effect will stick around after porking you, even if he has to die to get away) and baby is named after his late father, so presumably he too will be spreading VD across the galaxy in a couple decades.

Easter egg is most likely. I noticed in Grissom Academy that Cerberus said something over the loudspeaker to a Holly Merizan. An obvious reference to Jessica Merizan, the... hell, I forget what her title is. Something about the community. Anyway, Jacob still sucks.


The first unavoidable quarter of ME2 is ruined by Jacob. It's telling when I can handle Ice Queen B**** Cerberus Cheerleader better than Boring African-American Stereotype In Space.


Sheesh, what's with all the Jacob hate?  He's really not that bad... unless you romanced him, which only happens if you didn't romance Garrus, who's totally better in every way.


I accidentally did... with my very first femshep. So excuse me if I'm in solidarity with Rif here.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 01 décembre 2012 - 01:30 .