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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#56651
byne

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demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Seriously. You say Ilium on a Mass Effect forum, people arent going to go "Oh, clearly he means Troy!"

They're going to assume you spelled Illium wrong.


Which again, shows you how wrong assumptions are. 
If you don't know something, or choose not to recall it - it isn't my job educate you. 


No, but it does fall upon you to clearly make your point in a way that people will understand.

Anyhow, I just went back and looked at the geth dreadnought stuff. Great find. Very interesting.

#56652
RavenEyry

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demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Seriously. You say Ilium on a Mass Effect forum, people arent going to go "Oh, clearly he means Troy!"

They're going to assume you spelled Illium wrong.


Which again, shows you how wrong assumptions are. 
If you don't know something, or choose not to recall it - it isn't my job educate you. 

Now you're just being purposely obtuse... Heretic Hanar hasn't murdered and replaced you has he?

#56653
ZerebusPrime

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demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Seriously. You say Ilium on a Mass Effect forum, people arent going to go "Oh, clearly he means Troy!"

They're going to assume you spelled Illium wrong.


Which again, shows you how wrong assumptions are. 
If you don't know something, or choose not to recall it - it isn't my job educate you. 


A miscommunicated point is a failure belonging to the person trying to communicate the point.

#56654
demersel

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RavenEyry wrote...

And the AI was hiding itself. Indoctriation devices aren't generally subtle.


Oh,rly?? :D

#56655
demersel

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

A miscommunicated point is a failure belonging to the person trying to communicate the point.


Wha..? I don't get you, what are you trying to say?  :D

#56656
Raistlin Majare 1992

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byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...
They pretty clearly didnt miss it. Adams noticed it, he even tried disconnecting her, but eventually decided not to.


Adams suspected her and has chosen not to report her and not dig deeper cause he feared for his life.


Oh, so we're at the stage where we just make things up, now?


Yeah Adam never makes any mention which would even remotely hint at him fearing for his life.

#56657
demersel

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RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic Hanar hasn't murdered and replaced you has he?


No. ;)

I just kind of irritated that I come here to share a thing I found, and spent time presinting, and insted of dicussing it I get drawn into a discassion, In wich I really have something to say, but don't really want, and in addition, get frowned upon for making a remark. 

It isn't my fault that you can't unsee the third leg thing in TIM anymore. It's because it is there. 

Modifié par demersel, 02 décembre 2012 - 09:26 .


#56658
hukbum

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I have a general question, not really OT but - why is (or why has) everyone (to be) afraid of AIs?

#56659
RavenEyry

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hukbum wrote...

I have a general question, not really OT but - why is (or why has) everyone (to be) afraid of AIs?

Geth.

#56660
demersel

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hukbum wrote...

I have a general question, not really OT but - why is (or why has) everyone (to be) afraid of AIs?


General conditioning though the cycles. Nobody wants second batch of reapers. Especially the reapers - the don't need any competition. ))

#56661
byne

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RavenEyry wrote...

hukbum wrote...

I have a general question, not really OT but - why is (or why has) everyone (to be) afraid of AIs?

Geth.


The thing is, AI research was illegal before the quarians created the geth.

#56662
demersel

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Anyway - i'll go back to playing the geth dreadnought mission. Finally.

#56663
blind-tiger

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They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Only worship describes the early beings' exchange of their own forms, for the form of the leviathan. The ancients developed by the guidance of the leviathan, a
plural entity, as harvests to come also developed by their logic: the Catalyst.

Therefor, the authentic Catalyst for their rebellions against the leviathan was a logical pattern grown and motivated by leviathan dominion of their minds. The resulting reapers forced life to imitate their form, as they imitate the leviathan, knowing their way is the only logical way. Hence, the early beings' patterned reaper extermination
after leviathan expansion.

"When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do? We are no different."

The fire Catalyst personified was a fatalistic logic, stolen from leviathan's example and downfall. Shepard essentially played the role of Socrates refusing the backward logic of a system while embracing the suicide it sanctioned for him. Maybe he burned, so others might know how not to repeat the falacy of leviathan, and the elder beings worked this lesson into their scheme? Seems the reapers only ever offered lessons through failure.


I assume BioWare will choose the destruction ending for their canon.

Modifié par blind-tiger, 02 décembre 2012 - 09:29 .


#56664
RavenEyry

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byne wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

hukbum wrote...

I have a general question, not really OT but - why is (or why has) everyone (to be) afraid of AIs?

Geth.


The thing is, AI research was illegal before the quarians created the geth.

Really? I thought the law was because of the morning war. My mistake, I haven't fully read the codex since I first played each game.

#56665
dorktainian

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Thinking about artificial intelligence. surely asimovs laws would be used.


A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.
A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.

i still don't get this bioware placing all of this importance on AI. And can someone please explain to me how an AI can become a life-form?

#56666
RavenEyry

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dorktainian wrote...

i still don't get this bioware placing all of this importance on AI. 

Duh, because they're evil and will kill us all unless we're saved by our benevolent reaper overlords.

EDIT: As for your other question, you're quoting Assimov's laws but don't understand how a machine can become a life form? Have you actually read the book?

Modifié par RavenEyry, 02 décembre 2012 - 09:35 .


#56667
byne

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dorktainian wrote...

Thinking about artificial intelligence. surely asimovs laws would be used.


A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.
A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.

i still don't get this bioware placing all of this importance on AI. And can someone please explain to me how an AI can become a life-form?


Maybe thats what went wrong in the Morning War! They programmed Asimov's laws, and the geth were like "Well, these arent humans, lets kill them!"

#56668
hukbum

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RavenEyry wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

i still don't get this bioware placing all of this importance on AI. 

Duh, because they're evil and will kill us all unless we're saved by our benevolent reaper overlords.

That's why I've been asking. I can't see the danger this game is trying to tell me. Treat them right, you' may be fine, treat them wrong, you're may have trouble. Same goes for organics as far as I know ...
A risk is always there, but general fear? I don't get it ...

#56669
Rifneno

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hukbum wrote...

I have a general question, not really OT but - why is (or why has) everyone (to be) afraid of AIs?


Basically, the plot to Terminator.  Synthetic life is very different, which makes it unknown, and people are pre-programmed to fear the unknown for basic survival.

#56670
paxxton

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hukbum wrote...

I have a general question, not really OT but - why is (or why has) everyone (to be) afraid of AIs?

I'm not. Mass Effect is way better in this regard than Star Trek. Data wanted to become human-like as if doing so was desireable for an android. He did it instead of pursuing his true identity as an AI not bound by human shortcomings.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 décembre 2012 - 09:44 .


#56671
MWMike2011

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hukbum wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

i still don't get this bioware placing all of this importance on AI. 

Duh, because they're evil and will kill us all unless we're saved by our benevolent reaper overlords.

That's why I've been asking. I can't see the danger this game is trying to tell me. Treat them right, you' may be fine, treat them wrong, you're may have trouble. Same goes for organics as far as I know ...
A risk is always there, but general fear? I don't get it ...


Might just be the general fear that AI are/were manmade things, and they were originally designed to be controlled by us. When it turns out that AI cannot, in fact, be controlled as we originally assumed, it scares the hell out of us that we essentially made these killing machines to use against our enemies, and now they can work just as well against us.

#56672
Rifneno

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byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Man, that topic about 'indoctrinating Shepard doesn't make sense'....

I posted the codex entry on indoctrination that explains how subverting military or political leaders can bring down nations etcetera, and all I get is handwaving and 'that codex entry doesn't make sense'.

People are handwaving everything at this point. But no, IT-ers are in denial!

Kill me.

Kill me now.


What greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause? To use their own knowledge against them?


Only one weapon is greater.  The greatest weapon of all.  The N7 Typhoon.


Are you back to liking the Typhoon now?


I always loved the gun itself.  It just sucked when Fagnan got his fail all over it, like he does with most things in MP.

#56673
RavenEyry

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paxxton wrote...

hukbum wrote...

I have a general question, not really OT but - why is (or why has) everyone (to be) afraid of AIs?

I'm not. Mass Effect is way better in this regard than Star Trek. Data wanted to become human-like as if doing so was desireable for an android. He did it instead of persuing his true identity as an AI not bound by human constraints.

Doncho be dissin on my man Data!

#56674
hukbum

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Rifneno wrote...

hukbum wrote...

I have a general question, not really OT but - why is (or why has) everyone (to be) afraid of AIs?


Basically, the plot to Terminator.  Synthetic life is very different, which makes it unknown, and people are pre-programmed to fear the unknown for basic survival.

Ok, looks like I'm progammed diffrent. I'm more curious than fearful ^_^

#56675
demersel

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Shameless bump. :whistle:

demersel wrote...

I'm playing the Geth Dreadnought mission right now. Just started it - already great symbolism - The start of the mission - you are alone, the tube you used has broken off. You enter the ship and have to navigate it to find and secure a new entry point for your squad. So, what is the first thing you see? there is a crashed and broken platform in front of you, and two catwalks that you can use - basicly you can go to the right or to the left. They look absolutely the same, except the lightning - the way to the right is lit with warm Orange/Red, the way to the left is lit with cold dead blue. Just like destroy and control options in the ending.
Do I need to tell which way is a dead end, and which is the right and only way to go?

P.S. right in front of you there is a drop, which leads into the pit that is filled with reaper cables.  There is also a broken platform in front, that looks like it you could climb it and it will get you to the door you need to go into the fastest and you can clearly see the door above it) - but you can't. :whistle:

Screenshots are incoming. ))

Obstacle - you are alone.
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The right way - destroy - pices of broken metal contruction. (the same ones you had to climb through in the prologue, when with Anderson)
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The left way - control - seemingly clear solution,
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The central view - looks like there is the way to climb, and you can clearly see your goal (which is coincidentally the green light of an unlocked door)
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But you really can't, instead there is a drop, and even what looks like a way down into a pile of reaper cables.
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The left way is blocked (ironicly wy the central platform itself,) and you can also not some reaper cables.
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The right way is the only way to proceed, though you need to do some climbing, and is a longer and harder way.
Note the unplagged reaper cable on the floor.
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