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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#56726
estebanus

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demersel wrote...

The prominent theme in the interior design of ME3's normandy SR2 - loose wires.

...because the alliance never finished restaurating it. They even say so in the game, I seem to recall.

Modifié par estebanus, 02 décembre 2012 - 10:37 .


#56727
dorktainian

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hukbum wrote...

@dorktainian:
Same texutre like fortification, defense matrix, and so on ...

It appears to be a transparent map used very often in the game.

 yeah with the same colour etc.....  pure coincidence then?  

#56728
Rifneno

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estebanus wrote...

demersel wrote...

The prominent theme in the interior design of ME3's normandy SR2 - loose wires.

...because the alliance never finished restaurating it. They even say so in the game.


Loose wires in the ship, loose cannon in command.

#56729
Dwailing

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Man, I just can't seem to play Slender. I fear quit after about 30 seconds due to terror. Man, I miss the days when Slender had no pause button. It would make it so much easier for me to force myself through it.

#56730
Restrider

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A reaper artifact on one of the N7 missions in ME2.

#56731
estebanus

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Rifneno wrote...

estebanus wrote...

demersel wrote...

The prominent theme in the interior design of ME3's normandy SR2 - loose wires.

...because the alliance never finished restaurating it. They even say so in the game.


Loose wires in the ship, loose cannon in command.

Or a sudden invasion of huge metal space cuttlefish cutting the restauration team short by a few dozen. If a huge enemy army would be attacking your city, would you then still clean your car before trying to escape?

#56732
hukbum

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dorktainian wrote...

hukbum wrote...

@dorktainian:
Same texutre like fortification, defense matrix, and so on ...

It appears to be a transparent map used very often in the game.

 yeah with the same colour etc.....  pure coincidence then?  

I think so. It is easy to change colors using transmaps. You don't even need a texture. All you do is "object color x" and then apply the transmap.

#56733
paxxton

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John Walden wrote...

  Hello everyone. This is my first post on BSN (so forgive me if I make a mistake:P) I've been reading on this forum since a few weeks after ME3 released (and the
ME2 forums before ME3 was announced.) I'm about 70/30 on indoctrination theory, but there is
definitely more to the endings then meets the eye.
  Now to the point. I found something interesting while replaying Jade Empire (the first Bioware game I played and the reason I first played Mass Effect) that made me think of the ME3 endings.

HUGE JADE EMPIRE SPOILERS AHEAD!




At the end when you face the main antagonist, he gives you a choice to surrender...

This scene takes place after the PC breaks free from Sun Li's hold by fighting a battle in his/her
mind.

Sun Li: I see now that the Water Dragon's power is the prize, not the means to victory. No matter
            what I expend, while you live you will resist. That is your role.
            It is the Celestial Bureaucracy attempting to restore balance. We must bring the fight back down
            to earth. Unless... you are made to see reason.

Player: I'm Listening

Sun Li: What if I guarantee your name will live in the heart of each and every citizen in the Jade
            Empire? It is a glory beyond mere heroics. You would be eternal.
            I do not seek power as my brother did. I will correct the violence inherent in Man. I will make
            certain there are no more wars, no more droughts.
            Everyone will be content in their roles. And they will hold in their hearts the warrior who
            sacrificed everything so that they might prosper. You could make that happen.

Player: I fall, but my name lives on forever? Why would I agree?

Sun Li: If you defeat me, little will change. In time, this Empire will come and go, along with
            the memory of what you did. I seek eternal stability.
            Your name will forever be lauded. In the end, is that not the only immortality worth having?

Player: Forever remembered as a hero by all?

Sun Li: Forever. Not a man, woman, or child will go a day without acknowledging your sacrifice.
            Many have struggled for utopia; you will be the heart of it.

Player: Then I agree.

Sun Li: You do? You will let down your defenses so that I may guide the Jade Empire to a stable
            future?

Player: For the Jade Empire and the name of (PC's Name), I agree.

Sun Li: Then let it be done. You give yourself to a far greater glory than you could ever know.
            Goodbye, my student. You fulfilled your role just as I had wished.
           
The scene changes to an old man and a young boy standing in front of a statue of the PC.

Old Man: The statue of the hero. A shining symbol of sacrifice.
                Look upon it and feel gratitude for all the prosperity we have.

Boy: What was life like before?

The old man turns to the boy his dead grey/brown eyes show he is "Indoctrinated".

Old Man: You don't need to know. All that matters is the glory of the Empire.

Boy: But we need to ask questions to honor what was done. What if this hero wasn't finished?

A Large golum looks at the boy, The old man looks worried.

Old Man: This is your lesson for today. To be happy in your station, you don't need to know.

Boy: We don't need to know.

Old Man: Very good Return to your place.

The boy walks back to sit with the rest of the children.

Old Man: Now, who has delivered the Empire from war and pestilence?

Children: The Hero and the Glorious Strategist.

Old Man: Who showed us how to sacrifice for the greater good, so we are free to live in peace?

Children: The Hero and the Glorious Strategist.

Old Man: Who has ensured that the Empire will endure forever?

Children: The Hero and the Glorious Strategist.

The Scene pans to show Sun Li watching over the group, he than turns around and walks away
with an evil laugh.



Just thought that was interesting to see how choices in past Bioware endings compare to ME3's.

Hello and welcome to our thread. Unfortunately I didn't play Jade Empire.

#56734
estebanus

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Dwailing wrote...

Man, I just can't seem to play Slender. I fear quit after about 30 seconds due to terror. Man, I miss the days when Slender had no pause button. It would make it so much easier for me to force myself through it.

The really scary thing about slender is the music. That's what really creepts me out.

#56735
Dwailing

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estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Man, I just can't seem to play Slender. I fear quit after about 30 seconds due to terror. Man, I miss the days when Slender had no pause button. It would make it so much easier for me to force myself through it.

The really scary thing about slender is the music. That's what really creepts me out.


Bingo.  Of course, then you unlock Marble Hornets mode, and you realize that the music isn't the only reason you were creeped out.... 

#56736
401 Kill

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John Walden wrote...

  Hello everyone. This is my first post on BSN (so forgive me if I make a mistake:P) I've been reading on this forum since a few weeks after ME3 released (and the
ME2 forums before ME3 was announced.) I'm about 70/30 on indoctrination theory, but there is
definitely more to the endings then meets the eye.
  Now to the point. I found something interesting while replaying Jade Empire (the first Bioware game I played and the reason I first played Mass Effect) that made me think of the ME3 endings.

*snip*

Just thought that was interesting to see how choices in past Bioware endings compare to ME3's.

Exactly! Bioware has already done similar things in the past with their own games. With everything that is put in the trilogy, it is not so much of a stretch to think that IT has a role to play!

And hello.

#56737
masster blaster

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estebanus wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

estebanus wrote...

demersel wrote...

The prominent theme in the interior design of ME3's normandy SR2 - loose wires.

...because the alliance never finished restaurating it. They even say so in the game.


Loose wires in the ship, loose cannon in command.

Or a sudden invasion of huge metal space cuttlefish cutting the restauration team short by a few dozen. If a huge enemy army would be attacking your city, would you then still clean your car before trying to escape?


Yes I would. jk. No I would put a brick on the gas, and send it down to the invaders.

#56738
Andromidius

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byne wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

yep.... its like the QEC is a reaper indoctrination device. same colour, texture.


Ugh, now we're saying QECs indoctrinate?

Even demersel shouldnt believe this, since he said earlier that the way the output looks doesnt matter.


It might be Reaper derived technology, but I doubt very much it indocrtinates.  But I do think some elements of QEC is used by the Reapers for communication, and maybe control of their minions.

But that's it.

#56739
Rifneno

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Remember that one Bioware game where the main character kept having dreams and they weren't foreshadowing some horrible revelation later on?

Me neither.

#56740
byne

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estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Man, I just can't seem to play Slender. I fear quit after about 30 seconds due to terror. Man, I miss the days when Slender had no pause button. It would make it so much easier for me to force myself through it.

The really scary thing about slender is the music. That's what really creepts me out.


The only thing I've ever seen about Slender are the two Rage Quit videos. First one and second one. Also the behind the scenes, which is worth watching even if you dont watch the other two, purely for their reactions.

#56741
masster blaster

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Rifneno wrote...

Remember that one Bioware game where the main character kept having dreams and they weren't foreshadowing some horrible revelation later on?

Me neither.


Ya to bad Reven's dreams weren't trying to tell him, or her/ the fans something right.

#56742
Dwailing

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401 Kill wrote...

John Walden wrote...

  Hello everyone. This is my first post on BSN (so forgive me if I make a mistake:P) I've been reading on this forum since a few weeks after ME3 released (and the
ME2 forums before ME3 was announced.) I'm about 70/30 on indoctrination theory, but there is
definitely more to the endings then meets the eye.
  Now to the point. I found something interesting while replaying Jade Empire (the first Bioware game I played and the reason I first played Mass Effect) that made me think of the ME3 endings.

*snip*

Just thought that was interesting to see how choices in past Bioware endings compare to ME3's.

Exactly! Bioware has already done similar things in the past with their own games. With everything that is put in the trilogy, it is not so much of a stretch to think that IT has a role to play!

And hello.


Yeah, one of the biggest reasons that I believe in IT is that ME3 is PAINFULLY massive plot twist free.  I mean, ME1 had the Citadel twist, the Sovereign twist, the Conduit twist, etc.  ME2 had the Collector twist, the Human Reaper twist, etc.  ME3?  Well, the closest thing I can think of to a twist like that is the reveal that the Citadel is the Catalyst, maybe.

#56743
Rifneno

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masster blaster wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Remember that one Bioware game where the main character kept having dreams and they weren't foreshadowing some horrible revelation later on?

Me neither.


Ya to bad Reven's dreams weren't trying to tell him, or her/ the fans something right.


And the ones about Bhaal or Irenicus.  Or the ones about darkspawn.

#56744
estebanus

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masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

estebanus wrote...

demersel wrote...

The prominent theme in the interior design of ME3's normandy SR2 - loose wires.

...because the alliance never finished restaurating it. They even say so in the game.


Loose wires in the ship, loose cannon in command.

Or a sudden invasion of huge metal space cuttlefish cutting the restauration team short by a few dozen. If a huge enemy army would be attacking your city, would you then still clean your car before trying to escape?


Yes I would. jk. No I would put a brick on the gas, and send it down to the invaders.

No you wouldn't. You'd die if you'd do that, and for what? The city is lost anyway. the civil structure is in shambles. People are running for the hills. All hope of defending the city is lost. The only rational thing to do is to live to fight another day. If you'd decide to drive with your car towards the invaders(who have heavy and light artillery, perfect for taking down enemies advacning on their location), it wouldn't be brave, it'd be foolish.

I'm not trying to insult you or anything, that's just my personal view.

#56745
Dwailing

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byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Man, I just can't seem to play Slender. I fear quit after about 30 seconds due to terror. Man, I miss the days when Slender had no pause button. It would make it so much easier for me to force myself through it.

The really scary thing about slender is the music. That's what really creepts me out.


The only thing I've ever seen about Slender are the two Rage Quit videos. First one and second one. Also the behind the scenes, which is worth watching even if you dont watch the other two, purely for their reactions.


You should give it a shot.  It's terrifying, but it's worth trying at least once, especially if you're a Slender Fan.  Also, yeah, the Rage Quit videos are GREAT, as is the behind the scenes.

#56746
estebanus

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Rifneno wrote...

Remember that one Bioware game where the main character kept having dreams and they weren't foreshadowing some horrible revelation later on?

Me neither.

KOTOR still remains one of my favourite games until today. It's what made me believe that BioWare was smart enough to plan the IT in the first place.

#56747
Dwailing

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Rifneno wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Remember that one Bioware game where the main character kept having dreams and they weren't foreshadowing some horrible revelation later on?

Me neither.


Ya to bad Reven's dreams weren't trying to tell him, or her/ the fans something right.


And the ones about Bhaal or Irenicus.  Or the ones about darkspawn.


Yeah, dreams in BioWare games are totally just to give you insight into the emotional state of the protagonist, nothing to do with story revelations at all.

#56748
masster blaster

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estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

estebanus wrote...

demersel wrote...

The prominent theme in the interior design of ME3's normandy SR2 - loose wires.

...because the alliance never finished restaurating it. They even say so in the game.


Loose wires in the ship, loose cannon in command.

Or a sudden invasion of huge metal space cuttlefish cutting the restauration team short by a few dozen. If a huge enemy army would be attacking your city, would you then still clean your car before trying to escape?


Yes I would. jk. No I would put a brick on the gas, and send it down to the invaders.

No you wouldn't. You'd die if you'd do that, and for what? The city is lost anyway. the civil structure is in shambles. People are running for the hills. All hope of defending the city is lost. The only rational thing to do is to live to fight another day. If you'd decide to drive with your car towards the invaders(who have heavy and light artillery, perfect for taking down enemies advacning on their location), it wouldn't be brave, it'd be foolish.

I'm not trying to insult you or anything, that's just my personal view.


I am not going to drove it! I am going to use it as a disctraction, and send it down to the enemy. So I can escape. hence the brick, or rubble on the gas.

Modifié par masster blaster, 02 décembre 2012 - 10:51 .


#56749
John Walden

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paxxton wrote...

Hello and welcome to our thread. Unfortunately I didn't play Jade Empire.


Thank you, I'm sorry for the spoilers then, it's a great game, and this ending reminds me of the Mass effect 3 endings with the old man and boy, the sacrificing youself to the antagonist for a utopia and how it turned out was really interesting. and the battle in the mind made me think of IT.

#56750
estebanus

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masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

estebanus wrote...

demersel wrote...

The prominent theme in the interior design of ME3's normandy SR2 - loose wires.

...because the alliance never finished restaurating it. They even say so in the game.


Loose wires in the ship, loose cannon in command.

Or a sudden invasion of huge metal space cuttlefish cutting the restauration team short by a few dozen. If a huge enemy army would be attacking your city, would you then still clean your car before trying to escape?


Yes I would. jk. No I would put a brick on the gas, and send it down to the invaders.

No you wouldn't. You'd die if you'd do that, and for what? The city is lost anyway. the civil structure is in shambles. People are running for the hills. All hope of defending the city is lost. The only rational thing to do is to live to fight another day. If you'd decide to drive with your car towards the invaders(who have heavy and light artillery, perfect for taking down enemies advacning on their location), it wouldn't be brave, it'd be foolish.

I'm not trying to insult you or anything, that's just my personal view.


I am not going to drove it! I am going to use it as a disctraction, and send it down to the enemy. So I can escape. hence the brick, or rubble on the gas.

But then you have no car to escape in. The enemy would likely outrun and capture you, or worse: You could get hit by debris falling from buildings or enemy artillery shots. Plus, it wouldn't be an effective distraction, as the enmy would destroy the car with one artillery or RPG shot. Boom. End of distraction.