80611 réponses à ce sujet

[demersel]

LOL - "Indoctrination was misused" thread. LOL.

[estebanus]

Little unrelated question: Who here has ever tried flying in a fighter jet? Just wondering because I'll be trying my first time tomorrow.

[DoomsdayDevice]

John Walden wrote...

  Hello everyone. This is my first post on BSN (so forgive me if I make a mistake:P) I've been reading on this forum since a few weeks after ME3 released (and the
ME2 forums before ME3 was announced.) I'm about 70/30 on indoctrination theory, but there is
definitely more to the endings then meets the eye.
  Now to the point. I found something interesting while replaying Jade Empire (the first Bioware game I played and the reason I first played Mass Effect) that made me think of the ME3 endings.

HUGE JADE EMPIRE SPOILERS AHEAD!




At the end when you face the main antagonist, he gives you a choice to surrender...

This scene takes place after the PC breaks free from Sun Li's hold by fighting a battle in his/her
mind.

Sun Li: I see now that the Water Dragon's power is the prize, not the means to victory. No matter
            what I expend, while you live you will resist. That is your role.
            It is the Celestial Bureaucracy attempting to restore balance. We must bring the fight back down
            to earth. Unless... you are made to see reason.

Player: I'm Listening

Sun Li: What if I guarantee your name will live in the heart of each and every citizen in the Jade
            Empire? It is a glory beyond mere heroics. You would be eternal.
            I do not seek power as my brother did. I will correct the violence inherent in Man. I will make
            certain there are no more wars, no more droughts.
            Everyone will be content in their roles. And they will hold in their hearts the warrior who
            sacrificed everything so that they might prosper. You could make that happen.

Player: I fall, but my name lives on forever? Why would I agree?

Sun Li: If you defeat me, little will change. In time, this Empire will come and go, along with
            the memory of what you did. I seek eternal stability.
            Your name will forever be lauded. In the end, is that not the only immortality worth having?

Player: Forever remembered as a hero by all?

Sun Li: Forever. Not a man, woman, or child will go a day without acknowledging your sacrifice.
            Many have struggled for utopia; you will be the heart of it.

Player: Then I agree.

Sun Li: You do? You will let down your defenses so that I may guide the Jade Empire to a stable
            future?

Player: For the Jade Empire and the name of (PC's Name), I agree.

Sun Li: Then let it be done. You give yourself to a far greater glory than you could ever know.
            Goodbye, my student. You fulfilled your role just as I had wished.
           
The scene changes to an old man and a young boy standing in front of a statue of the PC.

Old Man: The statue of the hero. A shining symbol of sacrifice.
                Look upon it and feel gratitude for all the prosperity we have.

Boy: What was life like before?

The old man turns to the boy his dead grey/brown eyes show he is "Indoctrinated".

Old Man: You don't need to know. All that matters is the glory of the Empire.

Boy: But we need to ask questions to honor what was done. What if this hero wasn't finished?

A Large golum looks at the boy, The old man looks worried.

Old Man: This is your lesson for today. To be happy in your station, you don't need to know.

Boy: We don't need to know.

Old Man: Very good Return to your place.

The boy walks back to sit with the rest of the children.

Old Man: Now, who has delivered the Empire from war and pestilence?

Children: The Hero and the Glorious Strategist.

Old Man: Who showed us how to sacrifice for the greater good, so we are free to live in peace?

Children: The Hero and the Glorious Strategist.

Old Man: Who has ensured that the Empire will endure forever?

Children: The Hero and the Glorious Strategist.

The Scene pans to show Sun Li watching over the group, he than turns around and walks away
with an evil laugh.



Just thought that was interesting to see how choices in past Bioware endings compare to ME3's.

Wow, that's great. It's easy to see the parallel of the villain tricking the hero into defeat by promising eternal glory and No More Problems.

Typical Bioware stuff.

I don't know how people can't believe in IT.

I mean sure, a lot of things that people find isn't evidence or it's really far-fetched or just outright ridiculous, but that doesn't mean Bioware doesn't trick players. They do it all the time, and they have always been famous for it.

When it occurred to me that the ending of ME3 could have been an indoctrination attempt, I immediately realized it was true, because it has all the marks of a real Bioware twist to it, if that makes sense.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 02 décembre 2012 - 10:59 .

[Dwailing]

Huh, just had a thought about the Sam Hulick tweet. Wasn't his last work on a BioWare game the Extended Cut? In that case, whatever he's working on now might be big, especially when you consider the musical cues in the EC.

[John Walden]

401 Kill wrote...

Exactly! Bioware has already done similar things in the past with their own games. With everything that is put in the trilogy, it is not so much of a stretch to think that IT has a role to play!

And hello.

Hello to you. It really is amazing that some people claim Bioware can't write a good plot twist.

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Man, I just can't seem to play Slender. I fear quit after about 30 seconds due to terror. Man, I miss the days when Slender had no pause button. It would make it so much easier for me to force myself through it.

The really scary thing about slender is the music. That's what really creepts me out.

Bingo.  Of course, then you unlock Marble Hornets mode, and you realize that the music isn't the only reason you were creeped out.... 

I've watched all the slenderman videos by tribetwelve and marblehornets. They really are scary! Even had me believe in the slenderman for a while...

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

Little unrelated question: Who here has ever tried flying in a fighter jet? Just wondering because I'll be trying my first time tomorrow.

Well, I think I tried it in one of the Battlefields at some point....  I'm guessing I crashed, though. :lol:

[Restrider]

Rifneno wrote...

Remember that one Bioware game where the main character kept having dreams and they weren't foreshadowing some horrible revelation later on?

Me neither.

It would be a nice touch if you could actually encounter Slender in the dream sequence...

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Man, I just can't seem to play Slender. I fear quit after about 30 seconds due to terror. Man, I miss the days when Slender had no pause button. It would make it so much easier for me to force myself through it.

The really scary thing about slender is the music. That's what really creepts me out.

Bingo.  Of course, then you unlock Marble Hornets mode, and you realize that the music isn't the only reason you were creeped out.... 

I've watched all the slenderman videos by tribetwelve and marblehornets. They really are scary! Even had me believe in the slenderman for a while...

I still find myself looking out the window occasionally out of fear that I will see a tall, skinny guy in a suit.  Also, yeah, MH and TT are the two series that I really watch.  I've tried getting into EverymanHYBRID and Dark Harvest, but they just haven't caught me like MH and TT.

[DoomsdayDevice]

estebanus wrote...

Little unrelated question: Who here has ever tried flying in a fighter jet? Just wondering because I'll be trying my first time tomorrow.

Oh, come on.

Really, Estebanus?

[Dwailing]

Restrider wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Remember that one Bioware game where the main character kept having dreams and they weren't foreshadowing some horrible revelation later on?

Me neither.

It would be a nice touch if you could actually encounter Slender in the dream sequence...

Oh, actually, if you don't mind, it's SLENDER MAN!  Not Slender.  Slender is the game.  Slender Man is the Humanoid/Eldritch Abomination.

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Little unrelated question: Who here has ever tried flying in a fighter jet? Just wondering because I'll be trying my first time tomorrow.

Well, I think I tried it in one of the Battlefields at some point....  I'm guessing I crashed, though. :lol:

Ugh, those things are a pest to fly in BF3. I prefer helis. 

I'm actually pretty excited about flying in a real F-16 fighter jet. That's not something you get to try out any day, now is it?

[401 Kill]

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Little unrelated question: Who here has ever tried flying in a fighter jet? Just wondering because I'll be trying my first time tomorrow.

Well, I think I tried it in one of the Battlefields at some point....  I'm guessing I crashed, though. :lol:

I cannot possibly overstate how great that game is.

[masster blaster]

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

estebanus wrote...

demersel wrote...

The prominent theme in the interior design of ME3's normandy SR2 - loose wires.

...because the alliance never finished restaurating it. They even say so in the game.

Loose wires in the ship, loose cannon in command.

Or a sudden invasion of huge metal space cuttlefish cutting the restauration team short by a few dozen. If a huge enemy army would be attacking your city, would you then still clean your car before trying to escape?

Yes I would. jk. No I would put a brick on the gas, and send it down to the invaders.

No you wouldn't. You'd die if you'd do that, and for what? The city is lost anyway. the civil structure is in shambles. People are running for the hills. All hope of defending the city is lost. The only rational thing to do is to live to fight another day. If you'd decide to drive with your car towards the invaders(who have heavy and light artillery, perfect for taking down enemies advacning on their location), it wouldn't be brave, it'd be foolish.

I'm not trying to insult you or anything, that's just my personal view.

I am not going to drove it! I am going to use it as a disctraction, and send it down to the enemy. So I can escape. hence the brick, or rubble on the gas.

But then you have no car to escape in. The enemy would likely outrun and capture you, or worse: You could get hit by debris falling from buildings or enemy artillery shots. Plus, it wouldn't be an effective distraction, as the enmy would destroy the car with one artillery or RPG shot. Boom. End of distraction.

You forget your more of a target in a car that makes a hell of a lot of sounds.

Plus " would destroy the car with one artillery or RPG shot. Boom. End of distraction." Ya um that's a reason why i say screw cars. I have a better cahnceat running.

[Dwailing]

401 Kill wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Little unrelated question: Who here has ever tried flying in a fighter jet? Just wondering because I'll be trying my first time tomorrow.

Well, I think I tried it in one of the Battlefields at some point....  I'm guessing I crashed, though. :lol:

I cannot possibly overstate how great that game is.

Which one?  Because I think this was in BF2.  I don't remember if I've tried flying in BF3 yet, and Jets weren't in BF: BC2.

Edit: Also, I agree no matter which one you're referring to.  They're all great.

Modifié par Dwailing, 02 décembre 2012 - 11:05 .

[estebanus]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Little unrelated question: Who here has ever tried flying in a fighter jet? Just wondering because I'll be trying my first time tomorrow.

Oh, come on.

Really, Estebanus?

It's not that unusual that people are allowed to go with on flights in fighter jets. I won't be flying one, of course! I'll be in the passenger seat! Did you really think I'd be flying one?

[masster blaster]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Little unrelated question: Who here has ever tried flying in a fighter jet? Just wondering because I'll be trying my first time tomorrow.

Oh, come on.

Really, Estebanus?

I have.


"I'll be in the passenger seat! Did you really think I'd be flying one?"

That's what I did. I didn't fly one, but sat in the back.

Modifié par masster blaster, 02 décembre 2012 - 11:05 .

[401 Kill]

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, just had a thought about the Sam Hulick tweet. Wasn't his last work on a BioWare game the Extended Cut? In that case, whatever he's working on now might be big, especially when you consider the musical cues in the EC.

Remember, the endings to the last 2 DLCs had no music!

Modifié par 401 Kill, 02 décembre 2012 - 11:05 .

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

Did you really think I'd be flying one?

Uh, yes. 

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

You forget your more of a target in a car that makes a hell of a lot of sounds.

Plus " would destroy the car with one artillery or RPG shot. Boom. End of distraction." Ya um that's a reason why i say screw cars. I have a better cahnceat running.

Your enemy can't see you in your car when you're in the city. In order to use i as an distraction, you'll have to get out of the city, towards your enemy.

Modifié par estebanus, 02 décembre 2012 - 11:08 .

[John Walden]

Who has delivered the galaxy from war and pestilence?
The Shepherd and the Glorious Catalyst.
Who showed us how to sacrifice for the greater good, so we are free to live in peace?
The Shepherd and the Glorious Catalyst.
Who has ensured that Synthesis will endure forever?
The Shepherd and the Glorious Catalyst.

Modifié par John Walden, 02 décembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Did you really think I'd be flying one?

Uh, yes. 

Yeah, not going to happen. I don't even have any pilot training. I may be planning on joining the Air Force, but that'll first be this summer, after I've finished studying.

[Dwailing]

Um, estebanus and masster, would you kindly kill that quote pyramid? It's rather... large.

[MaximizedAction]

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, just had a thought about the Sam Hulick tweet. Wasn't his last work on a BioWare game the Extended Cut? In that case, whatever he's working on now might be big, especially when you consider the musical cues in the EC.

Yeah, he's somewhat the main composer of the main soundtrack (one track doesn't count, Mansell!). So it should be rather plot-relevant or at least epic enough to get him.

Me thinks this is the DLC I was saving my BW points for.


And good work finding the resemblance to Jade Empire. Never had the heart to pick that ending but damn it's close to ME3's. The only thing missing would've been something like Harbinger laughing after your choice. But...sadly Reapers don't chuckle...but I guess that's what it would've taken to convince really all players that this it's an indoctrination attempt. But, somehow I think there'd still be threads about how the Reapers are "misunderstood".

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 02 décembre 2012 - 11:11 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Little unrelated question: Who here has ever tried flying in a fighter jet? Just wondering because I'll be trying my first time tomorrow.

Oh, come on.

Really, Estebanus?

It's not that unusual that people are allowed to go with on flights in fighter jets. I won't be flying one, of course! I'll be in the passenger seat! Did you really think I'd be flying one?

No, I did not. You may interpret this however you like.