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[DoomsdayDevice]

REPENT!

THE END IS NIGH!

CONTROLLERS AND SYNTHESIZERS ARE A BLIGHT ON GALACTIC PURITY!

[RavenEyry]

Norlond wrote...

Working on [redacted] instead of [redacted2] today, despite me thinking
I'd get to [redacted2]. Ended up having to help out with [redacted3] - Jos Hendriks

It's been mentioned before, but yeah, they're being really secretive again.

[masster blaster]

dorktainian wrote...

good morning.  oh hang on it's 13.20 uk time.  i'm all confused now.

I live in America. The lone star state.

[Fur28]

So how much time do you think shepard has after she wakes up and knows she´s at her limit of self control and decides to, maybe, shoot herself?

[Norlond]

RavenEyry wrote...
It's been mentioned before, but yeah, they're being really secretive again.

Mhm I should improve my lurking skills then, duh!

[Fur28]

masster blaster wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

good morning.  oh hang on it's 13.20 uk time.  i'm all confused now.

I live in America. The lone star state.

I´m 5:25AM in Mexico and decided not to sleep because i ruined my sleep rutine

[RavenEyry]

Now 1:30 pm in the land of rain and queuing if you're interested.

[dorktainian]

masster blaster wrote...

So about Shepard. I think it's safe to say that Shepard is Indoctrinated in Control, and Synthesis right. Saren= Synthesis TIM= Contro. Both are Indoctrinated/ want to save everyone. That includes the Reapers. It's safe to say that for the people that want to save everyone they lead to Indoctrination, however if you willing to make hard chocies. Then you resisted Indoctrination for a least a time being.

Also Top! And we I get home. I will post the list.

 Ok went into the 'codex' again.

''Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents. A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable, Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.''  

i'm not sure shepard can be 'saved'.  But i would also suggest he is not alone in becoming indoctrinated.

I also throw Object Rho into the equation.  What if the Citadel sequence is just an illucination and the citadel shep sees is not the citadel at all but something like Object Rho?  Shep makes the choice.  Green & Blue are still reaper indoctrination, whereas red would allow shep to 'wake up'.  Look at the remnants of object rho behind shep when he takes the breath.  Maybe the citadel beam itself is a red herring.  It doesnt take anyone anywhere at all.  Maybe it is a huge indoctrination device.  It is sending it's signal to the citadel which then passes on the signal to all the relays.  Universal Indoctrination.  A no win scenario.  The beam itself needs to be destroyed.

Modifié par dorktainian, 03 décembre 2012 - 01:34 .

[umadcommander]

RavenEyry wrote...

Now 1:30 pm in the land of rain and queuing if you're interested.

i was born in london 

[masster blaster]

You know I hate it when people say " Shepard is immune to Indoctrination." Bs. It's just like saying Frodo is immune to the power of the one ring. Wrong you can clearly see in The Two Towers that Frodo is slowly beginning to change because of the one ring. Then you see it happen at the end of Return of the king. Frodo at the last moment holds the ring up right above the lava. Yet Frodo hesitates to drop it. You can hear whispers coming from the ring telling Frodo to keep it/ not Destroy it. The funny part/ the ironic part is Frodo finally says " No the ring is mine."

Now if Frodo did not Destroy the ring, then Aragon would have died first, then everyone else trying to by Frodo some time to Destroy the ring.

[RavenEyry]

It's circular logic. They say they know Shepard is immune to indoctrination because they don't get indoctrinated.

[MaximizedAction]

RavenEyry wrote...

It's circular logic. They say they know Shepard is immune to indoctrination because they don't get indoctrinated.

I wouldn't say it's uniquely because of that. Indoctrination of someone other than NPC's is simply difficult to imagine if you come from games that are less story driven. Or, that's what I find more likely. People aren't 'stupid' but rather unexperienced in such an evolved level of interactivity in the story. Hell, I can say the same about the March-me.
But it passed.

But again, as such it still fits perfectly within the game. Some Shepards possibly also don't expect that they, too, can be indoctrinated.

This is probably a one time thing, once (if) Bioware publicly admit that they did that, it won't be the same if it's done again...people will expect it. So if not now, then either someone else will do it and take credit for it or it'll be a footnote somewhere. Either way a wasted opportunity for everlasting fame and glory.

Or maybe that's just too mainstream for them.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 03 décembre 2012 - 02:00 .

[Eryri]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Hmm.

*Omega DLC Spoilers*
Aria T'loak, paragon ending to Omega: "Walk around with you a few hours and I go soft. You're like a disease."
*End Omega spoilers*

Adds some weight to my random Theory of Shepard being a new stage of evolution for humans, or a unique mutation anyway. To sum it up: Shepard's ability to lead is more than his/her charisma, it's potentially biological, influencing others around him/her not-quite like Reaper indoctrination but closer to Leviathan/Thorian enthrallment.

In some part of Leviathan DLC it's said/written "the Thorian shows evidence how organic life can progress without the use of the Reaper's Citadel and Mass Relay, technology that keeps most species on similar paths," the Thorian instead developed a means of using/controlling "lesser" organics.

In terms of evolutionary progression, this "Indoctrination trait" would go, from strongest to weakes, or most developed to least developedt:
Leviathan.
Thorian.
Rachni.
Shepard/humans.

I know it sounds like a crazy theory, feel free to tear it apart, but it gives a reason why the Reapers want Shepard alive/intact and why they might fear him/her above other organics. Having this "Indoctrination trait" might also have given Shepard the resistance to Reaper Indoctrination thus far in the trilogy.

 I always assumed they were going to collector general his asss.  

I thought for a long time (mostly throughout ME2, somewhat into 3) they wanted Shepard for his/her "Superior Code" as Legion put it, whatever it was that made Shepard, Shepard to add stength to their human Reaper. After some theorizing here on the IT thread (after ME3) I started to think, like a few others I'm sure, they wanted Shepard to be the control point for the human Reaper, its "mind," maybe making a Reaper as strong as Harbinger in the process or a new Harbinger.

But, this genetic trait theory popped into my head after playing Leviathan. And trying to figure out how Paragon Shepard managed to win so many over to his/her way of thinking, even hardened criminals, with the right words and actions. Could be explained by "He/She's the main character, it's written to be that way," but my the theory feels like a deeper explantion to the narrative anyway.

Shepard as the ME universe's answer to the Kwisatz Haderach. I quite like that idea. On the other hand I also like the idea of Shepard as a completely ordinary human, who accomplishes extraordinary things due to his or her resolve and strength of character.  I guess I'd be happy with either.

Modifié par Eryri, 03 décembre 2012 - 02:32 .

[dorktainian]

just had a thought about the endings.

OK here is where this logic comes from. The Beam is not a beam, but is in fact a huge indoctrination device on earth. The indoctrination device is sending information (only) to the Citadel. The information is then routed to all systems via the mass relay network. Indoctrination on a huge scale. The reapers wouldn't even need to go to war, just mop up all the pieces and go back on their merry way to dark space. All races would fall - but not immediately. Time and apathy would take care of them.

Anyways, shep wakes up, but is still indoctrinated. Therefore you would not be playing as shepard in ME4 (as bioware have said) but he may well be one of the enemy.

[ElSuperGecko]

dorktainian wrote...
I also throw Object Rho into the equation.  What if the Citadel sequence is just an illucination and the citadel shep sees is not the citadel at all but something like Object Rho?  Shep makes the choice.  Green & Blue are still reaper indoctrination, whereas red would allow shep to 'wake up'.  Look at the remnants of object rho behind shep when he takes the breath.  Maybe the citadel beam itself is a red herring.  It doesnt take anyone anywhere at all.  Maybe it is a huge indoctrination device.  It is sending it's signal to the citadel which then passes on the signal to all the relays.  Universal Indoctrination.  A no win scenario.  The beam itself needs to be destroyed.

Makes sense.  The Beam itself looks so much like a giant version of the Reaper device the Geth were worshipping on Feros.  It also bears a passing resembelance to a trio half-buried Reaper capital ships in a triangle...

I keep thinking back to the datapad we find at the FOB in London.  You know the one - the one in the creepy dark room right after the medical room... that, more than anything, was a clear clue.  People go to the beam like moths to a flame, and they don't come back.

[paxxton]

Unfortunately, the story is constructed so that Organics can't possibly win the war. You see, the Reapers built the Mass Relay Network and without it Organics have no means of traveling across the Galaxy. In such case all resistance would be instantaneously crippled even before the fights started. That's why it's puzzling that the Reapers did not decide to capture the Citadel as their first priority. One could say that the Reapers had to enter the Galaxy "on foot" and hence had no means to attack the Citadel by surprise. But surely such advanced a species as the Reapers must've foreseen a situation where in one cycle in the future something might go not according to their plan. They must have had a kind of backdoor into the network control. Besides, it's not even mentioned in thew game why they did not utilize this strategy Vigil talked about. A bold strategy, if you ask me. They should fight their way to the Citadel as the first thing they do in this war.

Not capturing the Citadel feels like a story hack introduced in ME3 primarily to alleviate the consequences of that whole "You develop along the paths we desire." The only other explanation would be if the Citadel indoctrinates its inhabitants.

[RavenEyry]

However half-hearted it may have been, I don't think Harbinger would defend something that'd just enslave anyone who ran into it blindly.

[dorktainian]

RavenEyry wrote...

However half-hearted it may have been, I don't think Harbinger would defend something that'd just enslave anyone who ran into it blindly.

he was making sure he isolated shepard.  No one got to the beam.  Not even Shepard.  Anyone that tried to get to the beam was huskified or taken to a processing center.

[paxxton]

Also a weird thing is that genetic material does not evolve much (if at all) in 50,000 years. Why wait for all the civilizations to develop instead of harvesting them at once? Maybe the Reapers really want to preserve our culture within their shells.

Modifié par paxxton, 03 décembre 2012 - 02:51 .

[The Heretic of Time]

dorktainian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

However half-hearted it may have been, I don't think Harbinger would defend something that'd just enslave anyone who ran into it blindly.

he was making sure he isolated shepard.  No one got to the beam.  Not even Shepard.  Anyone that tried to get to the beam was huskified or taken to a processing center.

Beams don't huskify, only those dragonteeth do.

And who is supposed to take a fully armed soldier to a processing center? a Keeper? A keeper is no match against a fully armed soldier.

[paxxton]

WARNING!!! COLLISION IMMINENT.

PAGE 2286

[dorktainian]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

However half-hearted it may have been, I don't think Harbinger would defend something that'd just enslave anyone who ran into it blindly.

he was making sure he isolated shepard.  No one got to the beam.  Not even Shepard.  Anyone that tried to get to the beam was huskified or taken to a processing center.

Beams don't huskify, only those dragonteeth do.

And who is supposed to take a fully armed soldier to a processing center? a Keeper? A keeper is no match against a fully armed soldier.

It doesnt matter, they're indoctrinated.  Troops are no match for indoctrination.  Harbingers only reason for being there was to stop everyone but shepard.  After the 'Serve Us' shepard is not himself anymore.  as far as dragonteeth are concerned..... they could be taken away and impaled.  The people who went to that beam didnt come back.  either the beam is a teleporter to a reaper meat grinder, or it indoctrinates them till they are passive then they go to the reprocessing center of their own free will.  

Also have you considered that the beam may ONLY be for shepard?  They want him.  Anyone else is killed. He throughout everything is still lying on the ground at the foot of the beam.  He never travelled.  Thats not the beams point.

Modifié par dorktainian, 03 décembre 2012 - 03:01 .

[The Heretic of Time]

dorktainian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

However half-hearted it may have been, I don't think Harbinger would defend something that'd just enslave anyone who ran into it blindly.

he was making sure he isolated shepard.  No one got to the beam.  Not even Shepard.  Anyone that tried to get to the beam was huskified or taken to a processing center.

Beams don't huskify, only those dragonteeth do.

And who is supposed to take a fully armed soldier to a processing center? a Keeper? A keeper is no match against a fully armed soldier.

It doesnt matter, they're indoctrinated.  Troops are no match for indoctrination.  Harbingers only reason for being there was to stop everyone but shepard.  After the 'Serve Us' shepard is not himself anymore.  as far as dragonteeth are concerned..... they could be taken away and impaled.  The people who went to that beam didnt come back.  either the beam is a teleporter to a reaper meat grinder, or it indoctrinates them till they are passive then they go to the reprocessing center of their own free will.

And what is supposed to indoctrinate them? Beams don't indoctrinate, only reapers and some of their artifacts do.

And "serve us"? What are you talking about? Harbinger doesn't say "serve us". That has already been debunked. It's just a indistinct reaper sound. Other reapers in ME3 also make that sound (for example the resper destroyer in the intro).

And what people went through that beam? No one did. Shepard and/or Anderson is the first to go through that beam. So I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about.

[RavenEyry]

magnetite wrote...

Not sure if I posted this, but the Synthesis beam is actually called "Rpr_beam" in the Umodel program. Reaper beam? Indoctrination, I think so.

Well it IS reaper tech...