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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#57226
Raistlin Majare 1992

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
they're all indoctrinated.  synthesis is akin to invasion of the bodysnatchers... they may look like your friends but they are not your friends.   control is akin to slavery.  (maybe its a bit of domination with these supporters..you know kinky domination types)

You know, there are positive examples of Synthesis too.


Shepard is the only one I can think of, unless anyone with a implant counts and that is hardly the scope of Synthesis.

#57227
hukbum

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Humakt83 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
You know, there are positive examples of Synthesis too.


Yeah, the husks look really happy.

Banshees have a bright future as teleport-taxis, Cannibals may have a chance in the funeral buisness ...
Husks? Cheap labor.

#57228
masster blaster

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KonguZya wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

So now theres statistical proof that many people who hate IT support literal control and synthesis.


That shouldn't be a surprise, at all. IT essentially spits in the face of their ideology. 

Despite how they're presented in the game and how they're framed on the BSN, many folks have come up with well-reasoned arguments behind taking sacrificial control of the Reapers and improving life through synthetic integration.  I don't agree with it, especially with how it's presented and contradicted in-universe, but many of those counter-arguments are sound enough to afford some spite towards the theory, since it negates their viewpoint.


The entire Mass Effect series spits in the face of that ideology.


I think they just want to save everyone. That's the problem who doesn't want everyone they cared for and love to die, but I think that's what Bioware wanted the fans to learn. In war there are people you can save, and people you can not. Legion, Thane, Kal Regger, Jonas dad, Charr, jokers sister, and a lot more people in the galaxy all can't be saved.

It's an ideal, but nothing more. Bioware kept leaving hints through Garrus, Javik, our squad members, the chocies we make. All tell us that we can't save everyone. Which is why at the end Bioware has Control, and Synthesis.

They know the fans want to save everyone, but in this war that's not going to happen. Yes EC disproves this, but that's bull crap. Illusions, and hallucinations can happen in games, as well as real life. It's possible Bioware can create an illusion. It's not that hard.

#57229
dreamgazer

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
they're all indoctrinated. synthesis is akin to invasion of the bodysnatchers... they may look like your friends but they are not your friends. control is akin to slavery. (maybe its a bit of domination with these supporters..you know kinky domination types)

You know, there are positive examples of Synthesis too.


There are positive examples of the general concept in a controlled, choice-based environment, yes.

#57230
hukbum

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masster blaster wrote...

Jonas dad

I think Jona lost his mother too. A female Quarian in a log on Tali's loalty mission mentioned a Jona (if I remember right).
"Be strong for daddy" ...

Modifié par hukbum, 03 décembre 2012 - 07:04 .


#57231
Hanako Ikezawa

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hukbum wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Jonas dad

I think Jona lost his mother too. A female Quarian in a log on Tali's loalty mission mentioned a Jona (if I remember right).
"Be strong for daddy" ...

Poor kid. Losing both parents over the course of a year.
Also, the dads name is Dorn'Hazt vas Quib Quib.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 03 décembre 2012 - 07:05 .


#57232
hukbum

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

hukbum wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Jonas dad

I think Jona lost his mother too. A female Quarian in a log on Tali's loalty mission mentioned a Jona (if I remember right).
"Be strong for daddy" ...

Poor kid. Losing both parents over the course of a year.
Also, the dads name is Dorn'Hazt vas Quib Quib.

I think it's him, because you'll get a mail from his uncle, not his mother. Nearly made me cry ... :crying:

#57233
masster blaster

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
they're all indoctrinated.  synthesis is akin to invasion of the bodysnatchers... they may look like your friends but they are not your friends.   control is akin to slavery.  (maybe its a bit of domination with these supporters..you know kinky domination types)

You know, there are positive examples of Synthesis too.


Javik: Hardly.

Honest there really isn't. If it's just ME alone, there is only a small dust bunny of anything good about Synthesis. I would like Synthesis if it wasn't forced, and happened over time, but the end forces it on everyone.

While I admit it being forced is wrong, it's better than the other two options, which are genocide or enslavement. When all options are forced on the galaxy, that no longer really applies to any choice in particular anymopre. Also, give me an area to search in other media and I bet I can find positive Synthesis examples.


Are you kiding me. Everyone is not acting the same in Synthesis. Heck Javik alone is all you need to question " WTF is wrong with Javik. He doesn't want to kill Reapers?" Heck Leviathans would hate synthesis because everyone becomes equal, they don't like equal, they want to be on top.

Heck I am sure our squad mates, and the whole galaxy, would not stop trying to kill the Reapers. And EDI said she would rather die, than befriend the Reapers, so Destroy looks good to me.

Genocid is more applyd to Synthesis. Rewriting everyones dna/ genetic material is basacly killing them.

Why don't you ask the collectors/ Indoctrinated Protheans. They can tell you, wait they can't because they died a long time ago on the inside.

#57234
KonguZya

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masster blaster wrote...

KonguZya wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

So now theres statistical proof that many people who hate IT support literal control and synthesis.


That shouldn't be a surprise, at all. IT essentially spits in the face of their ideology. 

Despite how they're presented in the game and how they're framed on the BSN, many folks have come up with well-reasoned arguments behind taking sacrificial control of the Reapers and improving life through synthetic integration.  I don't agree with it, especially with how it's presented and contradicted in-universe, but many of those counter-arguments are sound enough to afford some spite towards the theory, since it negates their viewpoint.


The entire Mass Effect series spits in the face of that ideology.


I think they just want to save everyone. That's the problem who doesn't want everyone they cared for and love to die, but I think that's what Bioware wanted the fans to learn. In war there are people you can save, and people you can not. Legion, Thane, Kal Regger, Jonas dad, Charr, jokers sister, and a lot more people in the galaxy all can't be saved.

It's an ideal, but nothing more. Bioware kept leaving hints through Garrus, Javik, our squad members, the chocies we make. All tell us that we can't save everyone. Which is why at the end Bioware has Control, and Synthesis.

They know the fans want to save everyone, but in this war that's not going to happen. Yes EC disproves this, but that's bull crap. Illusions, and hallucinations can happen in games, as well as real life. It's possible Bioware can create an illusion. It's not that hard.

*In Anderson's voice* Exactly.

#57235
Hanako Ikezawa

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masster blaster wrote...
Are you kiding me. Everyone is not acting the same in Synthesis. Heck Javik alone is all you need to question " WTF is wrong with Javik. He doesn't want to kill Reapers?" Heck Leviathans would hate synthesis because everyone becomes equal, they don't like equal, they want to be on top.

Heck I am sure our squad mates, and the whole galaxy, would not stop trying to kill the Reapers. And EDI said she would rather die, than befriend the Reapers, so Destroy looks good to me.

Genocid is more applyd to Synthesis. Rewriting everyones dna/ genetic material is basacly killing them.

Why don't you ask the collectors/ Indoctrinated Protheans. They can tell you, wait they can't because they died a long time ago on the inside.

I'm not kidding you. I view Destroy, Control, and Refuse as unacceptable choices.
Destroy: I commit genocide on every synthetic race in the galaxy. That's ruthless calculus, which Shepard earlier stared "makes us no better than Reapers". 
Control: I enslave the Reapers for eternity. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, so taking freedom away again makes me no better than the Reapers.
Refuse: I sacrifice everyone because I don't accept the enemies solutions simply because they're offered by the enemy.
As for the people acting differently and not wanting to kill the Reapers, it's called post-war society. Just because you still don't like your former adversary, you don't start another conflict because of it. 
Our DNa is changed on an everyday basis, it's called adaptation and evolution. According to the slides, every human is still human, every krogan krogan, etc so you did not commit genocide in that ending because everyone is the same as they were before, just enhanced through synthetic technology.

#57236
paxxton

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For those who awaited the return of my custom avatar. Behold! Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 03 décembre 2012 - 07:25 .


#57237
estebanus

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paxxton wrote...

For those who awaited the return of my custom avatar. Behold! Posted Image

did he get punched in the face a little too much?

#57238
paxxton

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estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

For those who awaited the return of my custom avatar. Behold! Posted Image

did he get punched in the face a little too much?

Uhm, no. Posted Image

#57239
estebanus

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dafuq happened with my quote?

Modifié par estebanus, 03 décembre 2012 - 07:34 .


#57240
BansheeOwnage

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paxxton wrote...

For those who awaited the return of my custom avatar. Behold! Posted Image

No offense, but I think I still prefer mine. Posted Image

Estebanus! Posted Image

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 03 décembre 2012 - 07:41 .


#57241
hukbum

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paxxton wrote...

For those who awaited the return of my custom avatar. Behold! Posted Image

You really need to spend some time in the sun ;)

#57242
His Name was HYR!!

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masster blaster wrote...

I think they just want to save everyone. That's the problem who doesn't want everyone they cared for and love to die, but I think that's what Bioware wanted the fans to learn. In war there are people you can save, and people you can not. Legion, Thane, Kal Regger, Jonas dad, Charr, jokers sister, and a lot more people in the galaxy all can't be saved.



Didn't save Shepard. He died in the same vain Legion/Thane/Reegar did.

#57243
Hanako Ikezawa

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I think they just want to save everyone. That's the problem who doesn't want everyone they cared for and love to die, but I think that's what Bioware wanted the fans to learn. In war there are people you can save, and people you can not. Legion, Thane, Kal Regger, Jonas dad, Charr, jokers sister, and a lot more people in the galaxy all can't be saved.



Didn't save Shepard. He died in the same vain Legion/Thane/Reegar did.

Shepard was willing to die to save everyone else. How is that in vain?

#57244
hukbum

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I think they just want to save everyone. That's the problem who doesn't want everyone they cared for and love to die, but I think that's what Bioware wanted the fans to learn. In war there are people you can save, and people you can not. Legion, Thane, Kal Regger, Jonas dad, Charr, jokers sister, and a lot more people in the galaxy all can't be saved.



Didn't save Shepard. He died in the same vain Legion/Thane/Reegar did.

Yeah ... but the "vain" of Legion, Thane and Reeger made sense somehow ...

#57245
BansheeOwnage

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I think they just want to save everyone. That's the problem who doesn't want everyone they cared for and love to die, but I think that's what Bioware wanted the fans to learn. In war there are people you can save, and people you can not. Legion, Thane, Kal Regger, Jonas dad, Charr, jokers sister, and a lot more people in the galaxy all can't be saved.



Didn't save Shepard. He died in the same vain Legion/Thane/Reegar did.

If literal, yes. Because synthesis.

#57246
Humakt83

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paxxton wrote...

For those who awaited the return of my custom avatar. Behold! Posted Image


No offence, but I hope for your sake that you didn't use a mirror while building that Shepard. ;)

Oh well, my male Shepard turned from lip-monster to a caveman when I imported him.

Modifié par Humakt83, 03 décembre 2012 - 07:59 .


#57247
BansheeOwnage

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Humakt83 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

For those who awaited the return of my custom avatar. Behold! Posted Image


No offence, but I hope for your sake that you didn't use mirror while building that Shepard. ;)

Oh well, my male Shepard turned from lip-monster to a caveman when I imported him.

Posted Image

#57248
401 Kill

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I think they just want to save everyone. That's the problem who doesn't want everyone they cared for and love to die, but I think that's what Bioware wanted the fans to learn. In war there are people you can save, and people you can not. Legion, Thane, Kal Regger, Jonas dad, Charr, jokers sister, and a lot more people in the galaxy all can't be saved.



Didn't save Shepard. He died in the same vain Legion/Thane/Reegar did.

If literal, yes. Because synthesis.

Sythesis: What's the worst that could happen?

#57249
dreamgazer

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I think they just want to save everyone. That's the problem who doesn't want everyone they cared for and love to die, but I think that's what Bioware wanted the fans to learn. In war there are people you can save, and people you can not. Legion, Thane, Kal Regger, Jonas dad, Charr, jokers sister, and a lot more people in the galaxy all can't be saved.



Didn't save Shepard. He died in the same vain Legion/Thane/Reegar did.

Shepard was willing to die to save everyone else. How is that in vain?


He meant "vein".

#57250
demersel

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Good evening, everyone. What's new? Is the third episode of Choose Wisely out yet?