80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

401 Kill wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

If literal, yes. Because synthesis.

Sythesis: What's the worst that could happen?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQeSKs7GhH8Y60mvcnRQByvnupdeplTe1GEcy0HsnofzwTnfsa02Miaqt-W

[byne]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Control: I enslave the Reapers for eternity. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, so taking freedom away again makes me no better than the Reapers.

You realize of course that theres nothing at all in synthesis that indicates the Godchild has stopped controlling the Reapers, right? They're still enslaved.

[hukbum]

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Control: I enslave the Reapers for eternity. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, so taking freedom away again makes me no better than the Reapers.

You realize of course that theres nothing at all in synthesis that indicates the Godchild has stopped controlling the Reapers, right? They're still enslaved.

But the shiny pictures ...

[byne]

I just watched the synthesis ending since we're all talking about it.

Shepard: And there will be peace?
Godchild: The cycle will end. The Reapers will cease their harvest, and the civilizations preserved in their forms will be connected to all of us.

First off, he does not say yes.

Second off, that sounds exactly like what happened to every other cycle. The cycle ended, the Reapers stopped harvesting, and were then connected to that cycle due to having a new Reaper.

Modifié par byne, 03 décembre 2012 - 08:05 .

[401 Kill]

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Control: I enslave the Reapers for eternity. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, so taking freedom away again makes me no better than the Reapers.

You realize of course that theres nothing at all in synthesis that indicates the Godchild has stopped controlling the Reapers, right? They're still enslaved.

Well, helping the Reapers achieve their goals won't make you better than the Reapers either...

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
Are you kiding me. Everyone is not acting the same in Synthesis. Heck Javik alone is all you need to question " WTF is wrong with Javik. He doesn't want to kill Reapers?" Heck Leviathans would hate synthesis because everyone becomes equal, they don't like equal, they want to be on top.

Heck I am sure our squad mates, and the whole galaxy, would not stop trying to kill the Reapers. And EDI said she would rather die, than befriend the Reapers, so Destroy looks good to me.

Genocid is more applyd to Synthesis. Rewriting everyones dna/ genetic material is basacly killing them.

Why don't you ask the collectors/ Indoctrinated Protheans. They can tell you, wait they can't because they died a long time ago on the inside.

I'm not kidding you. I view Destroy, Control, and Refuse as unacceptable choices.
Destroy: I commit genocide on every synthetic race in the galaxy. That's ruthless calculus, which Shepard earlier stared "makes us no better than Reapers". 

Yeah Shepard does say that, but in the very next conversation with Garrus, Shepard says this:
Garrus: "It all comes down to the Crucible now"
Shepard: "And ruthless Calculus"

And no this is not the Renegade response, this is full Paragon.

And it is  running theme. Garrus is the most clear with his ongoing advice position towards Palaven, but javik also chimes in with his line about "stand among the ashes of a trillion dead and ask the ghosts if honor matters" and then there is James who tells of the mission with the Collectors which went sour and Shepard says he made the right choice.

Even if Shepard dosent like it, the "Ruthless Calculus of war" is everywhere and unavoidable, something eevn Paragon Shepard seems to realize going by the second conversation with Garrus.

Believe me, i dont like it anymore than you, I have always been a "save everyone" kind of person. But I recognice a pattern when I see it and unlike the innocent civilians of the War, the Geth (as a consensus) had decided there would be no more compromise with the Reapers and EDI herself says she will die before beeing rewritten.

And no matter how you look at it, Synthesis and Control is a compromise. It is Shepard accepting either to replace the Reaper leader or accepting their goals in order to not sacrifice the Geth.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 03 décembre 2012 - 08:09 .

[demersel]

I was thinking. Omega's ending - it is really establishes he concept, that in a war of total extiction, when an enemy who if given chance would have killed you without second choice surrenders to you, and is willing to provide help - He does not siezes to be your enemy.

[hukbum]

byne wrote...

I just watched the synthesis ending since we're all talking about it.

Shepard: And there will be peace?
Godchild: The cycle will end. The Reapers will cease their harvest, and the civilizations preserved in their forms will be connected to all of us.

First off, he does not say yes.

This - and like in Control ("You will loose everything") most people just ignore it ...

[RavenEyry]

paxxton wrote...

For those who awaited the return of my custom avatar. Behold!

He looks less drunk than ast time at least.

[demersel]

Only one ending choice can be defined as "Victory through sacrifice".

[dreamgazer]

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Control: I enslave the Reapers for eternity. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, so taking freedom away again makes me no better than the Reapers.

You realize of course that theres nothing at all in synthesis that indicates the Godchild has stopped controlling the Reapers, right? They're still enslaved.

An answer I've read from the pro-synthesis camp is that the Catalyst just ... disappears, since it's served the original purpose of its programming.

[401 Kill]

demersel wrote...

Good evening, everyone. What's new? Is the third episode of Choose Wisely out yet?

The new Choose Wisely is not out yet.

[RavenEyry]

byne wrote...

I just watched the synthesis ending since we're all talking about it.

Shepard: And there will be peace?
Godchild: The cycle will end. The Reapers will cease their harvest, and the civilizations preserved in their forms will be connected to all of us.

First off, he does not say yes.

Second off, that sounds exactly like what happened to every other cycle. The cycle ended, the Reapers stopped harvesting, and were then connected to that cycle due to having a new Reaper.

Before EC that was one of the main points for the 'it wont end well' camp.

"The cycle will end... cos we're gonna kill you all."

Modifié par RavenEyry, 03 décembre 2012 - 08:11 .

[BansheeOwnage]

byne wrote...

I just watched the synthesis ending since we're all talking about it.

Shepard: And there will be peace?
Godchild: The cycle will end. The Reapers will cease their harvest, and the civilizations preserved in their forms will be connected to all of us.

First off, he does not say yes.

Second off, that sounds exactly like what happened to every other cycle. The cycle ended, the Reapers stopped harvesting, and were then connected to that cycle due to having a new Reaper.

Hey, good point Byne.

[GethPrimeMKII]

One thing that gets handwaved for control is why. Why even bother offering shepard cpntrol of the reapers to begin with? The catalyst does not have a reason to hand the keys over to a guy who will probably use the reapers to stop the cycles and undo everything. Shepard has no reason to believe the reapers can be controlled other than the enemy saying it can.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

dreamgazer wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...
Didn't save Shepard. He died in the same vain Legion/Thane/Reegar did.

Shepard was willing to die to save everyone else. How is that in vain?

He meant "vein".

Oh, my mistake then.

[paxxton]

Humakt83 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

For those who awaited the return of my custom avatar. Behold!

No offence, but I hope for your sake that you didn't use a mirror while building that Shepard. 

Oh well, my male Shepard turned from lip-monster to a caveman when I imported him.

No, I didn't. lol
 
I'll try to refine that avatar's face.

[RavenEyry]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

One thing that gets handwaved for control is why. Why even bother offering shepard cpntrol of the reapers to begin with? The catalyst does not have a reason to hand the keys over to a guy who will probably use the reapers to stop the cycles and undo everything. Shepard has no reason to believe the reapers can be controlled other than the enemy saying it can.

Because the solution no longer works apparently.

Lets not get into it not working anyway, not being a problem and Shepalyst not being any better.

[byne]

RavenEyry wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

One thing that gets handwaved for control is why. Why even bother offering shepard cpntrol of the reapers to begin with? The catalyst does not have a reason to hand the keys over to a guy who will probably use the reapers to stop the cycles and undo everything. Shepard has no reason to believe the reapers can be controlled other than the enemy saying it can.

Because the solution no longer works apparently.

Lets not get into it not working anyway, not being a problem and Shepalyst not being any better.

>the Reaper solution no longer works
>still works fine if you refuse

Seems legit.

[BansheeOwnage]

[quote]Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
I'm not kidding you. I view Destroy, Control, and Refuse as unacceptable choices.
Destroy: I commit genocide on every synthetic race in the galaxy. That's ruthless calculus, which Shepard earlier stared "makes us no better than Reapers". 
[/quote]

And no matter how you look at it, Synthesis and Control is a compromise. It is Shepard accepting either to replace the Reaper leader or accepting their goals in order to not sacrifice the Geth.
[/quote]
Yup. The geth are all soldiers. Soldiers are expendable.

See you later.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Glorious news friends! Tomorrow I can finally play the complete trilogy on my ps3!

[byne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

And no matter how you look at it, Synthesis and Control is a compromise. It is Shepard accepting either to replace the Reaper leader or accepting their goals in order to not sacrifice the Geth.

Yup. The geth are all soldiers. Soldiers are expendable.

See you later.

There will be no more compromise with the old machines. - Geth Prime in London.

Modifié par byne, 03 décembre 2012 - 08:16 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

And no matter how you look at it, Synthesis and Control is a compromise. It is Shepard accepting either to replace the Reaper leader or accepting their goals in order to not sacrifice the Geth.

Yup. The geth are all soldiers. Soldiers are expendable.

See you later.

Bit of a misquote there, but i get the meaning

Also I wouldnt use the word "expendable" but every Soldier going in knows he might never return and has accepted that possibility. That dosent mean you should sacrifice them just because, but if necesary then it is a risk they accepted.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 03 décembre 2012 - 08:17 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

Not to mention its never explained just why in the hell Shepard and only Shepard can make synthesis happen.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
Are you kiding me. Everyone is not acting the same in Synthesis. Heck Javik alone is all you need to question " WTF is wrong with Javik. He doesn't want to kill Reapers?" Heck Leviathans would hate synthesis because everyone becomes equal, they don't like equal, they want to be on top.

Heck I am sure our squad mates, and the whole galaxy, would not stop trying to kill the Reapers. And EDI said she would rather die, than befriend the Reapers, so Destroy looks good to me.

Genocid is more applyd to Synthesis. Rewriting everyones dna/ genetic material is basacly killing them.

Why don't you ask the collectors/ Indoctrinated Protheans. They can tell you, wait they can't because they died a long time ago on the inside.

I'm not kidding you. I view Destroy, Control, and Refuse as unacceptable choices.
Destroy: I commit genocide on every synthetic race in the galaxy. That's ruthless calculus, which Shepard earlier stared "makes us no better than Reapers". 

Yeah Shepard does say that, but in the very next conversation with Garrus, Shepard says this:
Garrus: "It all comes down to the Crucible now"
Shepard: "And ruthless Calculus"

And no this is not the Renegade response, this is full Paragon.

And it is  running theme. Garrus is the most clear with his ongoing advice position towards Palaven, but javik also chimes in with his line about "stand among the ashes of a trillion dead and ask the ghosts if honor matters" and then there is James who tells of the mission with the Collectors which went sour and Shepard says he made the right choice.

Even if Shepard dosent like it, the "Ruthless Calculus of war" is everywhere and unavoidable, something eevn Paragon Shepard seems to realize going by the second conversation with Garrus.

Believe me, i dont like it anymore than you, I have always been a "save everyone" kind of person. But I recognice a pattern when I see it and unlike the innocent civilians of the War, the Geth (as a consensus) had decided there would be no more compromise with the Reapers and EDI herself says she will die before beeing rewritten.

And no matter how you look at it, Synthesis and Control is a compromise. It is Shepard accepting either to replace the Reaper leader or accepting their goals in order to not sacrifice the Geth.

You bring up good points, but if there is an option to save everyone, which there is, I will take it. And compromise is always done in war and everything else. It's one of the things that keep society functioning.

byne wrote...

I just watched the synthesis ending since we're all talking about it.

Shepard: And there will be peace?
Godchild: The cycle will end. The Reapers will cease their harvest, and the civilizations preserved in their forms will be connected to all of us.

First off, he does not say yes.

Second off, that sounds exactly like what happened to every other cycle. The cycle ended, the Reapers stopped harvesting, and were then connected to that cycle due to having a new Reaper.

he can't promise peace because since the races are remaining as they are, their nature will remain as well. This means that something will eventually lead to conflict because that's how nature works. Javik I believe termed this the cosmic inperative". The point of Synthesis is Catalyst's function of forming a connection between organics and synthetics without turning them into Reapers.

dreamgazer wrote...

byne wrote...
You realize of course that theres nothing at all in synthesis that indicates the Godchild has stopped controlling the Reapers, right? They're still enslaved.

An answer I've read from the pro-synthesis camp is that the Catalyst just ... disappears, since it's served the original purpose of its programming.

He still exists, at least to me he does, but now he serves his programming, which will never be fulfilled since life will alwauys need protecting, but now can do it in a less restrictive way than the harvests. Basically, he will govern the Reapers instead of outright controlling them. 

401 Kill wrote...
Well, helping the Reapers achieve their goals won't make you better than the Reapers either...

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5006313466038029&pid=15.1
However, when is helping "preserve all life" considered a bas thing?

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 03 décembre 2012 - 08:27 .