80611 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

401 Kill wrote...
Well, helping the Reapers achieve their goals won't make you better than the Reapers either...

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5006313466038029&pid=15.1
However, when is helping "preserve all life" considered a bas thing?

Considering thats what every indoctrinated individual in every cycle has technically been doing, its been a bad thing for at least a billion years.

[Restrider]

Played Slender.
At first interesting, but got boring pretty fast...
Edit: Unbelievable how bad my spelling was in this post.

Modifié par Restrider, 03 décembre 2012 - 08:47 .

[demersel]

I want a ME3/ Dead Space 3 cross promotion.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Interesting thing about this goal to preserve all life. The reapers only mention this to people of interest (People they want to indoctrinate. People who could prove useful to the reaper cause once turned)

[Restrider]

demersel wrote...

Only one ending choice can be defined as "Victory through sacrifice".

Refuse.
Don't look at me - I sacrificed this cycle so that the next can win!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...038029&pid=15.1
However, when is helping "preserve all life" considered a bas thing?

Considering thats what every indoctrinated individual in every cycle has technically been doing, its been a bad thing for at least a billion years.

Good ideals, bad execution. I put this on since the Catalyst is an AI, he sees life as simply data.

Sareth Cousland wrote...
When it entails preserving it by imposing a uniform order of thinking upon life, and preserving it in Reaper form.

Diversity breeds conflict, not all can be saved. Still better than the Reaper agenda.

But Synthesis doesn't preserve it in Reaper form.

[demersel]

Restrider wrote...

demersel wrote...

Only one ending choice can be defined as "Victory through sacrifice".

Refuse.
Don't look at me - I sacrificed this cycle so that the next can win!

Says who? what will be different? 

[Restrider]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

And no matter how you look at it, Synthesis and Control is a compromise. It is Shepard accepting either to replace the Reaper leader or accepting their goals in order to not sacrifice the Geth.

Yup. The geth are all soldiers. Soldiers are expendable.

See you later.

Bit of a misquote there, but i get the meaning

Also I wouldnt use the word "expendable" but every Soldier going in knows he might never return and has accepted that possibility. That dosent mean you should sacrifice them just because, but if necesary then it is a risk they accepted.

It's actually a similar to Hackett's decision sacrificing the second fleet to save the third and fifth fleet. Sucks to be a guy/gal serving on a ship in the second fleet, but that is war.
Surprisingly no one questions Hackett's decision, but go all nuts if we do the same in a larger scale - but securing victory and not only a few fleets.

[byne]

Restrider wrote...

demersel wrote...

Only one ending choice can be defined as "Victory through sacrifice".

Refuse.
Don't look at me - I sacrificed this cycle so that the next can win!

Nah, in refuse, the cycle that is victorious sacrifices nothing for their victory.

[spotlessvoid]

Transforming ALL organic life on a molecular level against their consent in an irreversible act without time to even contemplate it's consequences is the single dumbest thing Shepard could ever do. And that's not even considering the fact that it's accomplished using Reaper tech. It's a horrific act of egotism and it's real life philosophical counterpart is just as heinous and anti-human. Synthesis is simply the most abhorrent, irresponsible, despicable thing ever.

[Restrider]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Good ideals, bad execution. I put this on since the Catalyst is an AI, he sees life as simply data.

You do know that history is filled with examples how good ideals led to the most horrific atrocities ever committed?
And given the examples of Reaper methods, I doubt that the new proposed solutions are any better.

[byne]

So, when godchild claims synthesis is inevitable, why does he still kill everyone if you refuse? If synthesis is going to happen at some point, why does he step in and stop it from being achieved on our own terms? Why is his synthesis the only one that is allowed to happen?

[Restrider]

byne wrote...

Restrider wrote...

demersel wrote...

Only two ending choices can be defined as "Victory through sacrifice".

Refuse.
Don't look at me - I sacrificed this cycle so that the next can win!

Nah, in refuse, the cycle that is victorious sacrifices nothing for their victory.

Victory through sacrifice applies to Destroy and Refuse. The one has a smaller sacrifice and immidiate victory, while the other has a larger sacrifice and a victory in the long run.
Not trying to be nitpicky - but I have taken the liberty to correct dem's statement.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Restrider wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Good ideals, bad execution. I put this on since the Catalyst is an AI, he sees life as simply data.

You do know that history is filled with examples how good ideals led to the most horrific atrocities ever committed?
And given the examples of Reaper methods, I doubt that the new proposed solutions are any better.

Yes, I am well aware of that, but alternatively someone with good ideals have led to some of the greatest accomplishments in human history as well.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...038029&pid=15.1
However, when is helping "preserve all life" considered a bas thing?

Considering thats what every indoctrinated individual in every cycle has technically been doing, its been a bad thing for at least a billion years.

Good ideals, bad execution. I put this on since the Catalyst is an AI, he sees life as simply data.

Sareth Cousland wrote...
When it entails preserving it by imposing a uniform order of thinking upon life, and preserving it in Reaper form.

Diversity breeds conflict, not all can be saved. Still better than the Reaper agenda.

But Synthesis doesn't preserve it in Reaper form.

No but in a litteral universe it kills divesity. If taken litterally Synthesis is the Final Evolution of life. That means there is no way to evolve any longer, that there is no need to evolve any longer and that can only be achieved if everyone is the same. Because if something is different then you can still evolve towards that.

The problem is also that the Catalyst lies. I had a longer post some time ago on it, but to put it in short the catalyst outright lies to your face, its stated Purpose does not match its actions.

One fo the best examples i how the Geth / Quarian war is handled in Mass Effect 3. Had Shepard not interferred (and even if he interferes there is still a good chance) either the Quarians or the Geth would have been wiped out for good.

The Catalys directly says its purpose is to preserve ALL Organic and Synthetic life so forcing the extinction of a species, be it Synthetic or Organic is against its primary purpose and programming. Even the Leviathans 's support this saying the AI was to preserve life at any cost. This might apply only to Organics true, but the Reapers are still rigging the Geth / Quarian war so that without interference tghe Quarians are wiped out.

And there are more examples than this, hell Destroy and Control are against the Ctatalyst own core programming and through Refuse it demonstrates that it can shut down the Crucible so it is not a case of it beeing unable to deny us those choices.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Restrider wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Good ideals, bad execution. I put this on since the Catalyst is an AI, he sees life as simply data.

You do know that history is filled with examples how good ideals led to the most horrific atrocities ever committed?
And given the examples of Reaper methods, I doubt that the new proposed solutions are any better.

Also it was hardly good ideals which led to the Reapers Creation. The Leviathans simply dident want to lose their tribute from races who were wiped out. How noble<_<

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...038029&pid=15.1
However, when is helping "preserve all life" considered a bas thing?

Considering thats what every indoctrinated individual in every cycle has technically been doing, its been a bad thing for at least a billion years.

Good ideals, bad execution. I put this on since the Catalyst is an AI, he sees life as simply data.

Sareth Cousland wrote...
When it entails preserving it by imposing a uniform order of thinking upon life, and preserving it in Reaper form.

Diversity breeds conflict, not all can be saved. Still better than the Reaper agenda.

But Synthesis doesn't preserve it in Reaper form.

No but in a litteral universe it kills divesity. If taken litterally Synthesis is the Final Evolution of life. That means there is no way to evolve any longer, that there is no need to evolve any longer and that can only be achieved if everyone is the same. Because if something is different then you can still evolve towards that.

The problem is also that the Catalyst lies. I had a longer post some time ago on it, but to put it in short the catalyst outright lies to your face, its stated Purpose does not match its actions.

One fo the best examples i how the Geth / Quarian war is handled in Mass Effect 3. Had Shepard not interferred (and even if he interferes there is still a good chance) either the Quarians or the Geth would have been wiped out for good.

The Catalys directly says its purpose is to preserve ALL Organic and Synthetic life so forcing the extinction of a species, be it Synthetic or Organic is against its primary purpose and programming. Even the Leviathans 's support this saying the AI was to preserve life at any cost. This might apply only to Organics true, but the Reapers are still rigging the Geth / Quarian war so that without interference tghe Quarians are wiped out.

And there are more examples than this, hell Destroy and Control are against the Ctatalyst own core programming and through Refuse it demonstrates that it can shut down the Crucible so it is not a case of it beeing unable to deny us those choices.

[demersel]

byne wrote...

So, when godchild claims synthesis is inevitable, why does he still kill everyone if you refuse? If synthesis is going to happen at some point, why does he step in and stop it from being achieved on our own terms? Why is his synthesis the only one that is allowed to happen?

Because the cycle IS synthesis. 

[spotlessvoid]

Synthesis IS inevitable. The technology to transcend our frail and limited organic form will ultimately be so advanced, so well understood that it will be near impossible to pass up. Our society is FAR FAR FAR away from being intellectually and emotionally mature enough to even consider such drastic and permanent action. It is NOT a necessity, nor should it be forced upon an unsuspecting public. This is an individual choice, and in a nation of laws, such technology should be illegal long after it's availability. We aren't even remotely mature enough to venture into such dangerous territory.

[byne]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

One fo the best examples i how the Geth / Quarian war is handled in Mass Effect 3. Had Shepard not interferred (and even if he interferes there is still a good chance) either the Quarians or the Geth would have been wiped out for good.

I think probably the very best example is one you learn about from Javik's cycle. The Zha'til.

From the ME wiki:

The zha'til were a synthetic race that existed at the time of the Protheans. They originated when a race known as the zha implanted themselves with symbiotic AI technology to enhance their intelligence in order to survive as their homeworld became inhospitable. When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely.

Basically, synthesis had been achieved in Javik's cycle, the Reapers came along, said 'lolnope,' then forced Reaper synthesis. Which predictably didnt end well.

If the Reapers really existed to protect life against the dangers of synthetics, why do they always side with the synthetics against the organics?

[demersel]

M4 - part 2 still gives me chills, and i really feel it is relevant to ME2, and even more so to ME3.

M4 part 2 for Shepard is the same as Extreme Ways to Jason Bourne.  It is the main theme, that summs up the character and his main conflict. 

Modifié par demersel, 03 décembre 2012 - 09:09 .