80611 réponses à ce sujet

[demersel]

Never forget. 

demersel wrote...

 And another thought - look at this picture again and tell me that it is not a perfect illustration for the whole M4 - part 2 song.

And yes. I demand that this picture become the emblem of the IT thread and be added into OP. It is really overdue. 



P.S. - M4 - part 2 lyrics should be added too.

I have wondered about you
Where will you be when this through
If all goes as planned
Will you redeem my life again?

Fire the fields the weed is sown
Water down your empty soul
Wake the sea of silent hope
Water down your empty soul

Fight your foes you're on your own
Holy war is on the phone
Asking to please stay on hold
The bleeding loss of blood runs cold

And I need you to recover
Because I can't make it on my own

[Hanako Ikezawa]

byne wrote...
If the Reapers really existed to protect life against the dangers of synthetics, why do they always side with the synthetics against the organics?

Doesn't Saren explain this. Something along the lines of organics are driven by emotion while synthetics are driven by logic. Therefore, synthetics would be more agreeable to what the Reapers are doing while organics wouldn't be able to comprehend it.

[byne]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...
If the Reapers really existed to protect life against the dangers of synthetics, why do they always side with the synthetics against the organics?

Doesn't Saren explain this. Something along the lines of organics are driven by emotion while synthetics are driven by logic. Therefore, synthetics would be more agreeable to what the Reapers are doing while organics wouldn't be able to comprehend it.

I dont recall that. The only time I recall Saren mentioning something being driven by logic is when he says that the Reapers are machines, and think like machines, and therefor will let him live if he proves himself useful.

[dorktainian]

so logic dictates that synthetics in order to protect organics from being killed by synthetics must make mega death machines to kill organics so they wont be killed by synthetics. err....

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...
If the Reapers really existed to protect life against the dangers of synthetics, why do they always side with the synthetics against the organics?

Doesn't Saren explain this. Something along the lines of organics are driven by emotion while synthetics are driven by logic. Therefore, synthetics would be more agreeable to what the Reapers are doing while organics wouldn't be able to comprehend it.

And yet they still need to rewrite the Geth to make them serve them.

Even in ME1 it is hinted something is odd about the Geth we now know are the Heretics. At Zhu's hope they are worhshipping what we know from a sidemission in ME1 to be a Reaper Indoctrination Object. Your squad even asks what machines could be worshipping and it is eirily similar to the "treating the Reapers themselves with superstitious awe" from indoctrination.

Then in ME2 Legion is clearly surpised by the Heretics spying on the Geth or creating the virus for that matter and in ME3 they fully take control of the Geth.

Yeah, Synthetics are more agreeable...

Also it is stated clearly that Sovereign saw the Geth as nothing more than tools and Habringer calls them "an annoyance."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...
If the Reapers really existed to protect life against the dangers of synthetics, why do they always side with the synthetics against the organics?

Doesn't Saren explain this. Something along the lines of organics are driven by emotion while synthetics are driven by logic. Therefore, synthetics would be more agreeable to what the Reapers are doing while organics wouldn't be able to comprehend it.

I dont recall that. The only time I recall Saren mentioning something being driven by logic is when he says that the Reapers are machines, and think like machines, and therefor will let him live if he proves himself useful.

"Now you see why I never came foward with this to the Council. We organics are driven by emotion instead of logic. We will fight even when we know we cannot win."

[spotlessvoid]

Byne...yeah, merging an organic with sentient technology is beyond dangerous. It's one thing to undergo a transformative process that introduces technology into the very fabric of organic being, it's something entirely different to infuse artificial intelligence into an organic being.

[byne]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...
If the Reapers really existed to protect life against the dangers of synthetics, why do they always side with the synthetics against the organics?

Doesn't Saren explain this. Something along the lines of organics are driven by emotion while synthetics are driven by logic. Therefore, synthetics would be more agreeable to what the Reapers are doing while organics wouldn't be able to comprehend it.

I dont recall that. The only time I recall Saren mentioning something being driven by logic is when he says that the Reapers are machines, and think like machines, and therefor will let him live if he proves himself useful.

"Now you see why I never came foward with this to the Council. We organics are driven by emotion instead of logic. We will fight even when we know we cannot win."

Hmm, must have forgotten that quote.

But still, at no point do any synthetics agree with the Reapers without being rewritten by the Reapers in the first place. Synthetics apparently fight too.

[spotlessvoid]

Who says choosing destroy isn't using logic? It isn't an inherently emotional decision. Starchild's logic is playing on emotions anyways.


And right, it's not like EDI and the Geth aren't fighting back.

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 03 décembre 2012 - 09:21 .

[acidic-ph0]

masster blaster wrote...

Also if Anderson followed Shepard up to the citadle, then he must have been awake to see Shepard get up, and go into the Conduit.
If he was, then he had to have over listened to coats/ the lady calling a full retreat. Yet why didn't Anderson say something?

You know, I never thought about that! That is very odd... we know Anderson makes it to the Citadel just moments after Shepard does and he's completely unharmed and has a working radio. You would think that he would tell Coats to shove that retreat order up his ass and continue to push to the beam! Hell, I would expect him of all people to still be in charge of the retreat/push forward command cause he's the damn Admiral! If he's still alive and well, then why the hell is Coat's even allowed to order a retreat?

That really doesn't make sense at all O_o

[Hanako Ikezawa]

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...
If the Reapers really existed to protect life against the dangers of synthetics, why do they always side with the synthetics against the organics?

Doesn't Saren explain this. Something along the lines of organics are driven by emotion while synthetics are driven by logic. Therefore, synthetics would be more agreeable to what the Reapers are doing while organics wouldn't be able to comprehend it.

I dont recall that. The only time I recall Saren mentioning something being driven by logic is when he says that the Reapers are machines, and think like machines, and therefor will let him live if he proves himself useful.

"Now you see why I never came foward with this to the Council. We organics are driven by emotion instead of logic. We will fight even when we know we cannot win."

Hmm, must have forgotten that quote.

But still, at no point do any synthetics agree with the Reapers without being rewritten by the Reapers in the first place. Synthetics apparently fight too.

I got the quote I was talking about and the quote you were talking about and put them together. The last sentence was my interpretation of it, but forgot that Heretics were rewritten.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 03 décembre 2012 - 09:23 .

[Andromidius]

byne wrote...
Nah, in refuse, the cycle that is victorious sacrifices nothing for their victory.

So we're told.  I find that very hard to believe, of course.  Why would things suddenly change that dramatically when we apparently did nothing to halt the Reapers and our Crucible was destroyed anyway?

Time for some unfeasible ideas now.  What would be incredibly cool would be a massive Mass Effect game not set in a single cycle - but dozens. 

Each time you're playing a hero in that Cycle, learning about the Reaopers and your own cycle's history, then fighting the Reapers.  Only you never have any way of winning, and all you can do is leave clues for the next cycle and try to help them win the war. 

So then you take over another hero in a future cycle (maybe not even the next one!) who finds clues left for them and unravels the events that happened...then fights the Reapers, loses, and leaves more clues.

Eventually we reach the current Cycle, and hopefully end the threat forever.  Unless you fail, then you go to the next Cycle for a 'final chance'.

Would be impossible to create such a game with any true detail, of course.  But imagine it.  It would be like Eternal Darkness, set in Mass Effect!

[Andromidius]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Who says choosing destroy isn't using logic? It isn't an inherently emotional decision. Starchild's logic is playing on emotions anyways.

Granted, if you use logic to realize the decision chamber must be an indoctrination attempt, you can arrive at the same conclusion. However, I think that most people who picked destroy did it out of an emotional feedback to the Catalyst, holding on to their spite of the Reapers. I think many realized subconsciously that something was not right and picked destroy because that's what they came here to do - more out of a "gut feeling" than because they realized what was actually going on.

Actually, emotions almost stopped me using Destroy because of my connection to the Geth and all the threats of widespread destruction that would follow.

Logic told me the Reapers could never be trusted, and never be forgiven for their guiltless crimes and genocide.  Logic reminded me the Geth and EDI were willing to die.  Logic reminded me that freedom is worth fighting and dying for.

So logically I picked Destroy.

[spotlessvoid]

acidic-ph0 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Also if Anderson followed Shepard up to the citadle, then he must have been awake to see Shepard get up, and go into the Conduit.
If he was, then he had to have over listened to coats/ the lady calling a full retreat. Yet why didn't Anderson say something?

You know, I never thought about that! That is very odd... we know Anderson makes it to the Citadel just moments after Shepard does and he's completely unharmed and has a working radio. You would think that he would tell Coats to shove that retreat order up his ass and continue to push to the beam! Hell, I would expect him of all people to still be in charge of the retreat/push forward command cause he's the damn Admiral! If he's still alive and well, then why the hell is Coat's even allowed to order a retreat?

That really doesn't make sense at all O_o

Neither does Anderson making the beam run solo. Did he really stay back by himself? Since Harbinger is gone, why doesn't the Normandy drop off reinforcements right at the beam? He doesn't know what is waiting for him on the Citadel. If anything, he should expect resistance from ground forces.

[spotlessvoid]

Logic can tell you that
1.Reaper Overlord isn't trustworthy
2. Choosing an option that allows the Reapers vto live isn't smart
3. Destroy was always the plan

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Who says choosing destroy isn't using logic? It isn't an inherently emotional decision. Starchild's logic is playing on emotions anyways.

Granted, if you use logic to realize the decision chamber must be an indoctrination attempt, you can arrive at the same conclusion. However, I think that most people who picked destroy did it out of an emotional feedback to the Catalyst, holding on to their spite of the Reapers. I think many realized subconsciously that something was not right and picked destroy because that's what they came here to do - more out of a "gut feeling" than because they realized what was actually going on.

That is a perfect describtion of what happened to me.

My logic told me Synthesis was the right choice. I dident want to sacrifice anyone and Control was out of the question due to TIM and Ceberus showing clearly how that would go. Yet Synthesis also wasent appealing on an emotional level and I couldnt figure out why.

And then Legion flashed through my mind, how he had spoken about the Geth seeking a future of their own, not wanting it handed to them...It was strange, but that was the turning point for me. I felt taht Synthesis would betray the very thing the Geth fought for and even if Destroy killed them i could apply the Geth's goal to every single other species. I would not force anything upon them and so i destroyed the Reapers.

Then I found this Theory and all the pices as to why it had seemed so strange fell into place.

[hukbum]

@demersel:
Is this picture fan art or something from BW? I've seen it before, but I forgot to ask.