80611 réponses à ce sujet

[401 Kill]

BatmanTurian wrote...

bah, nobody reads my stuff these days...

Sorry, I just can't concentrate when trolls attack this thread, my cognitive functions deteriorate as I lose hope in humanity. Maybe you should repost when trolls aren't here?

Im going to go before I take off my environmental suit to let the germs get to me.

[masster blaster]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Yeah, synthesis is a Reaper-approved evolutionary path. How could that possibly be good news for us? Not even EDI sounds like EDI, and that's likely to be intentional. You didn't save everyone. Everyone is gone, since they're not themselves anymore. They're now "in harmony" with the Reapers. What a sweet victory, huh?

Here's a wierd, out-there thought. What if Shepard really is dead in Synthesis (wasn't real and Shepard got huskified, or Saren-ed), fast-forward everyone dies, Harvest is completed, and EDI is reprogrammed and placed inside a Human Reaper or becomes the Human Reaper's intelligence instead of Shep in Control.  Then we could be seeing a virtual reality from EDI's point of view (she narrates it after all and all her "hopes and dreams" come true), a "First Matrix" for EDI keeping her happy even as some part of her operates as a Reaper hibernating in Dark Space (EDI isn't an organic so she would never need to wake up from a "perfect world" because she doesn't need suffering to affirm what is real or not)?

Oh, sh** that's depressing...

But don't they need a conciousness from the species that made the Reaper, for instance a turian Reaper will need A turian for it's intelligence?

Harbinger: You turians are considerd to...primative

Only humanity was going to become a Reapers, not the other races. Collectors are Protehams, and are they not inside a Reaper bpdy? Ni.

[Eryri]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Yeah, synthesis is a Reaper-approved evolutionary path. How could that possibly be good news for us? Not even EDI sounds like EDI, and that's likely to be intentional. You didn't save everyone. Everyone is gone, since they're not themselves anymore. They're now "in harmony" with the Reapers. What a sweet victory, huh?

Here's a wierd, out-there thought. What if Shepard really is dead in Synthesis (wasn't real and Shepard got huskified, or Saren-ed), fast-forward everyone dies, Harvest is completed, and EDI is reprogrammed and placed inside a Human Reaper or becomes the Human Reaper's intelligence instead of Shep in Control.  Then we could be seeing a virtual reality from EDI's point of view (she narrates it after all and all her "hopes and dreams" come true), a "First Matrix" for EDI keeping her happy even as some part of her operates as a Reaper hibernating in Dark Space (EDI isn't an organic so she would never need to wake up from a "perfect world" because she doesn't need suffering to affirm what is real or not)?

Oh, sh** that's depressing...

I read it. Interesting that it might be harder for an AI to identify an illusion, because all their senses are sort of "relayed". Their used to having a digital picture of the world fed to them via their sensors, so replace the feed with another and how would they tell the difference?

[BatmanTurian]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Yeah, synthesis is a Reaper-approved evolutionary path. How could that possibly be good news for us? Not even EDI sounds like EDI, and that's likely to be intentional. You didn't save everyone. Everyone is gone, since they're not themselves anymore. They're now "in harmony" with the Reapers. What a sweet victory, huh?

Here's a wierd, out-there thought. What if Shepard really is dead in Synthesis (wasn't real and Shepard got huskified, or Saren-ed), fast-forward everyone dies, Harvest is completed, and EDI is reprogrammed and placed inside a Human Reaper or becomes the Human Reaper's intelligence instead of Shep in Control.  Then we could be seeing a virtual reality from EDI's point of view (she narrates it after all and all her "hopes and dreams" come true), a "First Matrix" for EDI keeping her happy even as some part of her operates as a Reaper hibernating in Dark Space (EDI isn't an organic so she would never need to wake up from a "perfect world" because she doesn't need suffering to affirm what is real or not)?

Oh, sh** that's depressing...

But don't they need a conciousness from the species that made the Reaper, for instance a turian Reaper will need A turian for it's intelligence?

They took Shepard apart in Synthesis, likely melted him down. EDI is already made from Reaper code. It wouldn't be that hard for a Reaper to reprogram her like they did the Geth.

[Restrider]

@ demersel
Sounds interesting. Can't really comment further, since it is highly dependent on the way it is executed.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

demersel wrote...

Everyone ignored it, so I'll just bump it again. ( I really dig the bumping feature today:P)

demersel wrote...

 If ME4 features different spiecies protagonists - i really want the to do a drop in drop out co-op feature to play through main story compaign - like in the upcoming dead space 3 - but instead liniting it to just two player they can make it 3 or even 4. 
www.youtube.com/watch

From what I heard - the feature is really neat and well implemented - the catch is that players expirience different thing in game - both characters suffer from hallucinations and delusional perception of reality - so sometimes they even get entirely different levels. And sometimes a hallucination sequence will start for one player, while for the other it would seem as if he walks blindly in weird directions, and does not respond at all - and at that time an ambush would happen - so the second player will have to survive alone and at the same time protect the helpless first player - those are real examples from insider demos - concept is extremly rich, and I am eager to see what will they do with it and how far will they take it. 


But regardles of how it will be in dead space 3 - it is a great concept to implement into the next ME game - if seceral players will be playing mission together - some of them could be affected by indoctrination or something. 

So what do you guys thing? imagine that ME4 starts with an individual origin story, specific to class race and gender, DO:O style  - only one of those being Shepard, and only available via save import when choosing destroy. (other save imports are also accepted, but they just set the state of the galaxy, and include your shepard as indoctrinated antogonist) 

If there was an option to play offline, then I'd like this idea. Except for the Shepard being the antagonist, because that means that Shepards story isnt over which Bioware has stated dozens of times is with ME3.

[masster blaster]

BatmanTurian wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Yeah, synthesis is a Reaper-approved evolutionary path. How could that possibly be good news for us? Not even EDI sounds like EDI, and that's likely to be intentional. You didn't save everyone. Everyone is gone, since they're not themselves anymore. They're now "in harmony" with the Reapers. What a sweet victory, huh?

Here's a wierd, out-there thought. What if Shepard really is dead in Synthesis (wasn't real and Shepard got huskified, or Saren-ed), fast-forward everyone dies, Harvest is completed, and EDI is reprogrammed and placed inside a Human Reaper or becomes the Human Reaper's intelligence instead of Shep in Control.  Then we could be seeing a virtual reality from EDI's point of view (she narrates it after all and all her "hopes and dreams" come true), a "First Matrix" for EDI keeping her happy even as some part of her operates as a Reaper hibernating in Dark Space (EDI isn't an organic so she would never need to wake up from a "perfect world" because she doesn't need suffering to affirm what is real or not)?

Oh, sh** that's depressing...

But don't they need a conciousness from the species that made the Reaper, for instance a turian Reaper will need A turian for it's intelligence?

They took Shepard apart in Synthesis, likely melted him down. EDI is already made from Reaper code. It wouldn't be that hard for a Reaper to reprogram her like they did the Geth.

Hence why EDI want's to change her programming.

[BatmanTurian]

Eryri wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Yeah, synthesis is a Reaper-approved evolutionary path. How could that possibly be good news for us? Not even EDI sounds like EDI, and that's likely to be intentional. You didn't save everyone. Everyone is gone, since they're not themselves anymore. They're now "in harmony" with the Reapers. What a sweet victory, huh?

Here's a wierd, out-there thought. What if Shepard really is dead in Synthesis (wasn't real and Shepard got huskified, or Saren-ed), fast-forward everyone dies, Harvest is completed, and EDI is reprogrammed and placed inside a Human Reaper or becomes the Human Reaper's intelligence instead of Shep in Control.  Then we could be seeing a virtual reality from EDI's point of view (she narrates it after all and all her "hopes and dreams" come true), a "First Matrix" for EDI keeping her happy even as some part of her operates as a Reaper hibernating in Dark Space (EDI isn't an organic so she would never need to wake up from a "perfect world" because she doesn't need suffering to affirm what is real or not)?

Oh, sh** that's depressing...

I read it. Interesting that it might be harder for an AI to identify an illusion, because all their senses are sort of "relayed". Their used to having a digital picture of the world fed to them via their sensors, so replace the feed with another and how would they tell the difference?

Yeah, like I said, it goes back to that line in the app page that says " First Matrix". Agent Smith says humans couldn't accept the First Matrix because it was a perfect world and humans can only affirm reality through suffering. A machine or program does not have this need. This is now what I think they mean by "First Matrix".

[demersel]

By the way, why is that - in synthesis Shepard's organic essence is taken apart and dispersed all throughout the universe - but everybody in the universe gets tech in them.

- you send organic essence out - tech is being add to everybody - how come??

[Eryri]

demersel wrote...

Everyone ignored it, so I'll just bump it again. ( I really dig the bumping feature today:P)

demersel wrote...

 If ME4 features different spiecies protagonists - i really want the to do a drop in drop out co-op feature to play through main story compaign - like in the upcoming dead space 3 - but instead liniting it to just two player they can make it 3 or even 4. 
www.youtube.com/watch

From what I heard - the feature is really neat and well implemented - the catch is that players expirience different thing in game - both characters suffer from hallucinations and delusional perception of reality - so sometimes they even get entirely different levels. And sometimes a hallucination sequence will start for one player, while for the other it would seem as if he walks blindly in weird directions, and does not respond at all - and at that time an ambush would happen - so the second player will have to survive alone and at the same time protect the helpless first player - those are real examples from insider demos - concept is extremly rich, and I am eager to see what will they do with it and how far will they take it. 


But regardles of how it will be in dead space 3 - it is a great concept to implement into the next ME game - if seceral players will be playing mission together - some of them could be affected by indoctrination or something. 

So what do you guys thing? imagine that ME4 starts with an individual origin story, specific to class race and gender, DO:O style  - only one of those being Shepard, and only available via save import when choosing destroy. (other save imports are also accepted, but they just set the state of the galaxy, and include your shepard as indoctrinated antogonist) 

That would be incredible if they could pull it off. But I imagine it would be hugely difficult logistically. All those choices to take into account. Different voice actors for each possible race. Not saying it would be impossible, they've pulled off similar feats before. I certainly hope they could do something like this.

[Restrider]

BatmanTurian wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Yeah, synthesis is a Reaper-approved evolutionary path. How could that possibly be good news for us? Not even EDI sounds like EDI, and that's likely to be intentional. You didn't save everyone. Everyone is gone, since they're not themselves anymore. They're now "in harmony" with the Reapers. What a sweet victory, huh?

Here's a wierd, out-there thought. What if Shepard really is dead in Synthesis (wasn't real and Shepard got huskified, or Saren-ed), fast-forward everyone dies, Harvest is completed, and EDI is reprogrammed and placed inside a Human Reaper or becomes the Human Reaper's intelligence instead of Shep in Control.  Then we could be seeing a virtual reality from EDI's point of view (she narrates it after all and all her "hopes and dreams" come true), a "First Matrix" for EDI keeping her happy even as some part of her operates as a Reaper hibernating in Dark Space (EDI isn't an organic so she would never need to wake up from a "perfect world" because she doesn't need suffering to affirm what is real or not)?

Oh, sh** that's depressing...

But don't they need a conciousness from the species that made the Reaper, for instance a turian Reaper will need A turian for it's intelligence?

They took Shepard apart in Synthesis, likely melted him down. EDI is already made from Reaper code. It wouldn't be that hard for a Reaper to reprogram her like they did the Geth.

Synthesis being a VR has been stated a few times, as far as I know.
It collides with the idea of the slides being part of the illusion though. If there was some kind of reasonable/logical Deception Theory, I think the Synthesis slides could be easily a VR. And for those who are really familiar with ME, this is not a totally new concept (VR aliens in the Cerberus Network News [=CNN lolz]).

And as mentioned before, since Davik supports a DT type of ending, it could've been him who promoted this idea.

[TheProtheans]

BatmanTurian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

No, themes and evidence within the universe itself supports the literary theory that Shepard was undergoing indoctrination and is not indoctrinated until choosing to align his or her goals with the Reapers. It's not my head-canon, it's what the ending is. Because a literal ending makes no sense (logically or scientifically) no matter how much you try to explain it that way.

What if that is just what it is, what if it is just something that doesn't make sense.
What if it is something that was better as an idea in someones head.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

masster blaster wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Yeah, synthesis is a Reaper-approved evolutionary path. How could that possibly be good news for us? Not even EDI sounds like EDI, and that's likely to be intentional. You didn't save everyone. Everyone is gone, since they're not themselves anymore. They're now "in harmony" with the Reapers. What a sweet victory, huh?

Here's a wierd, out-there thought. What if Shepard really is dead in Synthesis (wasn't real and Shepard got huskified, or Saren-ed), fast-forward everyone dies, Harvest is completed, and EDI is reprogrammed and placed inside a Human Reaper or becomes the Human Reaper's intelligence instead of Shep in Control.  Then we could be seeing a virtual reality from EDI's point of view (she narrates it after all and all her "hopes and dreams" come true), a "First Matrix" for EDI keeping her happy even as some part of her operates as a Reaper hibernating in Dark Space (EDI isn't an organic so she would never need to wake up from a "perfect world" because she doesn't need suffering to affirm what is real or not)?

Oh, sh** that's depressing...

But don't they need a conciousness from the species that made the Reaper, for instance a turian Reaper will need A turian for it's intelligence?

Harbinger: You turians are considerd to...primative

Only humanity was going to become a Reapers, not the other races. Collectors are Protehams, and are they not inside a Reaper bpdy? Ni.

I though the inferior races became the Reaper Destroyers. It said something like that in the Codex. As for the Collectors, I think the Reapers kept them around simply as a tool to observe the next cycle.

[BatmanTurian]

401 Kill wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

bah, nobody reads my stuff these days...

Sorry, I just can't concentrate when trolls attack this thread, my cognitive functions deteriorate as I lose hope in humanity. Maybe you should repost when trolls aren't here?

Im going to go before I take off my environmental suit to let the germs get to me.

It's cool. When i commented, I hadn't yet realized the atmosphere of the thread at the moment.

[masster blaster]

demersel wrote...

By the way, why is that - in synthesis Shepard's organic essence is taken apart and dispersed all throughout the universe - but everybody in the universe gets tech in them.

- you send organic essence out - tech is being add to everybody - how come??

You would think if you have a renegade Shepard and you jump in the beam. Everyone would be evil, and corrupted. I mean everything that Shepard is will be sent out, so.... There should be no peace if your Renegade Shepard jumped in the Synthesis beam.

[demersel]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
If there was an option to play offline, then I'd like this idea. Except for the Shepard being the antagonist, because that means that Shepards story isnt over which Bioware has stated dozens of times is with ME3.

But it isn't Shepard anymore! He siezed to be Shepard and became Darth Spectrus instead. 

[Rifneno]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Transforming ALL organic life on a molecular level against their consent in an irreversible act without time to even contemplate it's consequences is the single dumbest thing Shepard could ever do. And that's not even considering the fact that it's accomplished using Reaper tech. It's a horrific act of egotism and it's real life philosophical counterpart is just as heinous and anti-human. Synthesis is simply the most abhorrent, irresponsible, despicable thing ever.

I missed a lot of pages, but this bears repeating.  Synthesis is ****ing EVIL.

[Restrider]

demersel wrote...

By the way, why is that - in synthesis Shepard's organic essence is taken apart and dispersed all throughout the universe - but everybody in the universe gets tech in them.

- you send organic essence out - tech is being add to everybody - how come??

If you start to try to rationalize Synthesis in a literal POV, you'll end in a sanatorium.
Even if we assume that the Guardian is honest and can be trusted and Synthesis is the best ending, I would still believe that the way it is presented to us is not literally!

[BatmanTurian]

TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

No, themes and evidence within the universe itself supports the literary theory that Shepard was undergoing indoctrination and is not indoctrinated until choosing to align his or her goals with the Reapers. It's not my head-canon, it's what the ending is. Because a literal ending makes no sense (logically or scientifically) no matter how much you try to explain it that way.

What if that is just what it is, what if it is just something that doesn't make sense.
What if it is something that was better as an idea in someones head.

What if you can't explain to me how an organic at ground-zero survives a multi-KT nuclear blast that damages the Citadel and destroys the Crucible? You can't, but it happens. Explain that. And no bad writing copout, since by that logic the other endings are also bad writing.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 03 décembre 2012 - 11:46 .

[demersel]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
If there was an option to play offline, then I'd like this idea. Except for the Shepard being the antagonist, because that means that Shepards story isnt over which Bioware has stated dozens of times is with ME3.

But it isn't Shepard anymore! He siezed to be Shepard and became Darth Spectrus instead. He is more machine now than a man.

[hukbum]

TheProtheans wrote...

What if that is just what it is, what if it is just something that doesn't make sense.
What if it is something that was better as an idea in someones head.

Maybe, maybe not. Where's the problem?

[TheProtheans]

Restrider wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

There is less headcanon going on in here (at least in the core theory) than in the support threads for other endings (for example Synthesis or Control). I am not trying to judge these endings (though I have my opinion), but there is a lot of so-called headcanon going on in there, while the IT is accused for being fanfic/headcanon.

Chris Priestly has stated several times that this theory is a valid interpretation and hence was not moved to fanfic, btw.

All theories are valid until debunked, I recall the intoxication theory as one of such.
Chris's opinions on if something is valid or not is worthless to me.
I have defended the IT as a theory against some person who said it was fanfic because of some reason, I think it was because he said it ignores stuff like EC and cherry picks the things that supports it.
He couldn't be reasoned with, he called me an Iter too, I was very hurt.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

demersel wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
You never know how you'll feel about something until you try it out for yourself. I did the same with an IT playthrough, but the results weren't as positive.

No? You didn't like the IT playthrough? 

It was very interesting and I see why you guys and girls like it, don't get me wrong. The only reason I didn't like it is it forces my mind to think in a way that's very challenging for me for long periods of time. Remember I have a sever case of Asperger's Syndrome so I'm not very good at figurative concepts and IT is very high on that. so when trying it, I found it fun but exhausting at the same time and ended up with a headache afterwords, hence not a positive result. I will say that if they do do a reveal it will definately be much easier since I will be able to see that Bioware literally meant IT. 

I' should add that after the full playthrough, the emnding being IT was easier to grasp the second time, so maybe with more playthroughs, it'll be easier.

[Rifneno]

demersel wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
If there was an option to play offline, then I'd like this idea. Except for the Shepard being the antagonist, because that means that Shepards story isnt over which Bioware has stated dozens of times is with ME3.

But it isn't Shepard anymore! He siezed to be Shepard and became Darth Spectrus instead. He is more machine now than a man.

Isn't it cute how people who picked control think Shepbinger will do whatever they'd do even though the thing refers to itself as a seperate entity (when it's not giving sugar coated versions of other Reaper speeches).

[BatmanTurian]

Restrider wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Yeah, synthesis is a Reaper-approved evolutionary path. How could that possibly be good news for us? Not even EDI sounds like EDI, and that's likely to be intentional. You didn't save everyone. Everyone is gone, since they're not themselves anymore. They're now "in harmony" with the Reapers. What a sweet victory, huh?

Here's a wierd, out-there thought. What if Shepard really is dead in Synthesis (wasn't real and Shepard got huskified, or Saren-ed), fast-forward everyone dies, Harvest is completed, and EDI is reprogrammed and placed inside a Human Reaper or becomes the Human Reaper's intelligence instead of Shep in Control.  Then we could be seeing a virtual reality from EDI's point of view (she narrates it after all and all her "hopes and dreams" come true), a "First Matrix" for EDI keeping her happy even as some part of her operates as a Reaper hibernating in Dark Space (EDI isn't an organic so she would never need to wake up from a "perfect world" because she doesn't need suffering to affirm what is real or not)?

Oh, sh** that's depressing...

But don't they need a conciousness from the species that made the Reaper, for instance a turian Reaper will need A turian for it's intelligence?

They took Shepard apart in Synthesis, likely melted him down. EDI is already made from Reaper code. It wouldn't be that hard for a Reaper to reprogram her like they did the Geth.

Synthesis being a VR has been stated a few times, as far as I know.
It collides with the idea of the slides being part of the illusion though. If there was some kind of reasonable/logical Deception Theory, I think the Synthesis slides could be easily a VR. And for those who are really familiar with ME, this is not a totally new concept (VR aliens in the Cerberus Network News [=CNN lolz]).

And as mentioned before, since Davik supports a DT type of ending, it could've been him who promoted this idea.

I think IT could be working up until Shep jumps into the beam and dies, then the player is decieved by the EDI voice-over and what seems like a " First Matrix" perfect world (which is green by the way, just like, you know, the matrix code and inside the matrix itself, there is a green tint to almost everything).