80611 réponses à ce sujet

[masster blaster]

TheProtheans wrote...

Restrider wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

There is less headcanon going on in here (at least in the core theory) than in the support threads for other endings (for example Synthesis or Control). I am not trying to judge these endings (though I have my opinion), but there is a lot of so-called headcanon going on in there, while the IT is accused for being fanfic/headcanon.

Chris Priestly has stated several times that this theory is a valid interpretation and hence was not moved to fanfic, btw.

All theories are valid until debunked, I recall the intoxication theory as one of such.
Chris's opinions on if something is valid or not is worthless to me.
I have defended the IT as a theory against some person who said it was fanfic because of some reason, I think it was because he said it ignores stuff like EC and cherry picks the things that supports it.
He couldn't be reasoned with, he called me an Iter too, I was very hurt.

so what if your called an ITer, there is nothing wrong with being an ITer. And that person was misinformed. Ec helped IT better than what we could think of, and Leviathan proves that the whole ending can be in Shepard's head, and being Indoctrinated.

[byne]

TheProtheans wrote...

Restrider wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

There is less headcanon going on in here (at least in the core theory) than in the support threads for other endings (for example Synthesis or Control). I am not trying to judge these endings (though I have my opinion), but there is a lot of so-called headcanon going on in there, while the IT is accused for being fanfic/headcanon.

Chris Priestly has stated several times that this theory is a valid interpretation and hence was not moved to fanfic, btw.

All theories are valid until debunked, I recall the intoxication theory as one of such.
Chris's opinions on if something is valid or not is worthless to me.
I have defended the IT as a theory against some person who said it was fanfic because of some reason, I think it was because he said it ignores stuff like EC and cherry picks the things that supports it.
He couldn't be reasoned with, he called me an Iter too, I was very hurt.

Sounds like something Seival would do.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

demersel wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
If there was an option to play offline, then I'd like this idea. Except for the Shepard being the antagonist, because that means that Shepards story isnt over which Bioware has stated dozens of times is with ME3.

But it isn't Shepard anymore! He siezed to be Shepard and became Darth Spectrus instead. He is more machine now than a man.

I suppose, but they'd have to work in every possible custom Shep face into Shepards animations and cutscenes. That or put them in full body armor so we don't even recognize it as Shepard except maybe a filtered voice..

[umadcommander]

TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

No, themes and evidence within the universe itself supports the literary theory that Shepard was undergoing indoctrination and is not indoctrinated until choosing to align his or her goals with the Reapers. It's not my head-canon, it's what the ending is. Because a literal ending makes no sense (logically or scientifically) no matter how much you try to explain it that way.

What if that is just what it is, what if it is just something that doesn't make sense.
What if it is something that was better as an idea in someones head.

your sentences are filled with what ifs, well what if its right?

[Rifneno]

byne wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Restrider wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

There is less headcanon going on in here (at least in the core theory) than in the support threads for other endings (for example Synthesis or Control). I am not trying to judge these endings (though I have my opinion), but there is a lot of so-called headcanon going on in there, while the IT is accused for being fanfic/headcanon.

Chris Priestly has stated several times that this theory is a valid interpretation and hence was not moved to fanfic, btw.

All theories are valid until debunked, I recall the intoxication theory as one of such.
Chris's opinions on if something is valid or not is worthless to me.
I have defended the IT as a theory against some person who said it was fanfic because of some reason, I think it was because he said it ignores stuff like EC and cherry picks the things that supports it.
He couldn't be reasoned with, he called me an Iter too, I was very hurt.

Sounds like something Seival would do.

He said "person" not "subhuman dog creature".

[masster blaster]

byne wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Restrider wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

There is less headcanon going on in here (at least in the core theory) than in the support threads for other endings (for example Synthesis or Control). I am not trying to judge these endings (though I have my opinion), but there is a lot of so-called headcanon going on in there, while the IT is accused for being fanfic/headcanon.

Chris Priestly has stated several times that this theory is a valid interpretation and hence was not moved to fanfic, btw.

All theories are valid until debunked, I recall the intoxication theory as one of such.
Chris's opinions on if something is valid or not is worthless to me.
I have defended the IT as a theory against some person who said it was fanfic because of some reason, I think it was because he said it ignores stuff like EC and cherry picks the things that supports it.
He couldn't be reasoned with, he called me an Iter too, I was very hurt.

Sounds like something Seival would do.

They are friends. Prothean, and Seival

Modifié par masster blaster, 03 décembre 2012 - 11:50 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
If there was an option to play offline, then I'd like this idea. Except for the Shepard being the antagonist, because that means that Shepards story isnt over which Bioware has stated dozens of times is with ME3.

But it isn't Shepard anymore! He siezed to be Shepard and became Darth Spectrus instead. He is more machine now than a man.

Isn't it cute how people who picked control think Shepbinger will do whatever they'd do even though the thing refers to itself as a seperate entity (when it's not giving sugar coated versions of other Reaper speeches).

I didn't pick Control though, so...

[archangel1996]

TheProtheans wrote...

Restrider wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

There is less headcanon going on in here (at least in the core theory) than in the support threads for other endings (for example Synthesis or Control). I am not trying to judge these endings (though I have my opinion), but there is a lot of so-called headcanon going on in there, while the IT is accused for being fanfic/headcanon.

Chris Priestly has stated several times that this theory is a valid interpretation and hence was not moved to fanfic, btw.

All theories are valid until debunked, I recall the intoxication theory as one of such.
Chris's opinions on if something is valid or not is worthless to me.
I have defended the IT as a theory against some person who said it was fanfic because of some reason, I think it was because he said it ignores stuff like EC and cherry picks the things that supports it.
He couldn't be reasoned with, he called me an Iter too, I was very hurt.

Hurt uh?....i don't think it's normal you know

[Rifneno]

And yes yes, I apologize to dogs. That was out of line and all that.

[BatmanTurian]

Rifneno wrote...

He said "person" not "subhuman dog creature".

Wow, you're on fire today.

[GethPrimeMKII]

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

Nothing indicates the possible implimentation of the theory? Its like you skipped straight here to insult us without bothering to check out the links on the front page.

[Rifneno]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

He said "person" not "subhuman dog creature".

Wow, you're on fire today.

If there's an afterlife, Seival'll be on fire everyday of it.

[TheProtheans]

umadcommander wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

No, themes and evidence within the universe itself supports the literary theory that Shepard was undergoing indoctrination and is not indoctrinated until choosing to align his or her goals with the Reapers. It's not my head-canon, it's what the ending is. Because a literal ending makes no sense (logically or scientifically) no matter how much you try to explain it that way.

What if that is just what it is, what if it is just something that doesn't make sense.
What if it is something that was better as an idea in someones head.

your sentences are filled with what ifs, well what if its right?

What if it  is not right? what if it is right?
Largely irrelevant questions.

The real question is how will ITers react to each of the outcomes.

[Eryri]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

If there was an option to play offline, then I'd like this idea. Except for the Shepard being the antagonist, because that means that Shepards story isnt over which Bioware has stated dozens of times is with ME3.

I think there might be wiggle room for Bioware there. They might just mean that Shepard's personal story - his struggle with indoctrination / inner demons is over. A bit like in Star trek TNG where you'd have a story about Picard in one episode, then a Riker episode, then a Data episode and so on. Their characters got to grow a bit, but they were still all there in the same roles, more or less the same, week after week.

ME4 could see Shep back commanding the Normandy, but it would be more like ME2, where he's focusing on a mission while sorting out other people's problems rather than his own perhaps.

[masster blaster]

Restrider wrote...

----------Preamble----------

This list has been compiled to enable an easy access to The Indoctrination Theory. While there are many other aspects, hints and signs throughout Mass Effect 3 and the entire trilogy that may also point to The Indoctrination Theory, the concepts presented in this list are - to the best of my knowledge - the most compelling ones. Take into account that my role in this undertaking was mainly the role of an editor, though many broader suggestions I found to be convincing, made it into the list. The vast majority of the points listed below were reported by fellow associates of The Indoctrination Theory and they deserve the correspondent gratitude.
The order of the list was determined through surveys and polls that can be found here.

----------The Ten Most Important Concepts Supporting The Indoctrination Theory----------

     
        I) Indoctrination in general :

          1.   Regarding IT, Shepard is in the process of indoctrination and the outcome is decided by the final decision taken.
          2.   The concept of indoctrination is a crucial part throughout the trilogy and nothing new to the player (link 1 and 2).
          3.   Rana Thanoptis is an example of how subtle and slow indoctrination can be.
          4.   Shepard was knocked out for two days by a Reaper artifact that indoctrinated an entire facility.
          5.   Logs on the derelict Reaper and in Arrival (link) illustrate the reactions of victims of indoctrination.
          6.   Paul Grayson's indoctrination show its effects on someone's mind.
          7.   Harbinger's smacktalk (link 1 and 2).

 
       II) The Breath Scene :

          1.   London rubble.
          2.   Mako in the background.
          3.   Citadel explosion (link 1 and 2).


    III) The Dreams :
         
          1.   Dream sequences and post-beam sequence share the same game mechanics.
          2.   Reality-nonreality transition after beam shot (post-beam, dreams, Geth Consensus).
          3.   Oily shadows and whispering.
          4.   Nightmares are mentioned in the Arrival by subjects being indoctrinated.
          5.   Chambers and Asari having PTSD as comparison between PTSD & Shepard's dreams.


    IV) Leviathan :

          1.   Harbinger/the Reapers perfected enthrallment to indoctrination.
          2.   Enthrallment uses memories of its victim.
          3.   Similarities between Leviathan end and decision chamber.
          4.   Zap sound as a sign to enter/leave virtual reality (link 1 and 2).


     V) The Choices :

          1.   Shepard on his knees happened only during/after some mind control.
          2.   The Guardian is aligned to the Reapers.
          3.   Control and Synthesis being supported by indoctrinated characters.
          4.   A swap in the colours (TIM = Paragon; Anderson = Renegade).
          5.   Huskification during Control/Synthesis vs. Shepard gaining strength while shooting the tubes.
          6.   Guardian losing it when you refuse ("SO BE IT!").
          7.   Decision chamber looks like a dialogue wheel from an aerial view.
          8.   Decision chamber resembling beam scenery (link 1 and 2).
          9.   Ambiguous end dialogue (Control/Synthesis).
        10.   Slide shows in Control/Synthesis/Destroy illustrate future possibilities, not facts that already happened.
        11.   Soldiers in Destroy fighting fiercely while in Control/Synthesis they are losing (note: no cheering in Synthesis).


    VI) The Kid :

         1.   Moves from one roof to another during an invasion (all links).
         2.   It can open a door that is marked as locked.
         3.   It survives a blast from a Reaper laser.
         4.   It is not seen by anyone else.
         5.   There always are warning symbols around it.
         6.   It disappears without making any noise.
         7.   It does not behave like a normal kid ("You cannot save me!").
         8.   The Guardian has the same form as the kid.


   VII) Anderson & TIM :

         1.   How did Anderson follow Shepard?
         2.   How can Anderson reach the control first?
         3.   Why did no one else follow Anderson?
         4.   From where did TIM shows up?
         5.   TIM's scars are only present at the end of the game.
         6.   Anderson may be addressing Shepard ("They are controlling you!").
         7.   Shepard is dominated by TIM and thus through him by the Reapers.
         8.   Anderson and Shepard have wounds at the same place (link 1 and 2).
         9.   Reaper horn played in the background (at 1/2 speed).
       10.   The EMS requirements depend on Anderson's fate in the confrontation with TIM.


  VIII) The Guardian :

         1.   It has the same shape as the kid ( thus an extraction of Shepard's memories).
         2.   It speaks with femshep's and maleshep's voice.
         3.   Harbinger's line in the MP trailer (link 1 and 2).
         4.   The Guardian is a liar regardless of the interpretation of the endings.


    IX) The Beam Run :

        1.   Harbinger is pin-pointing everyone and everything but Shepard.
        2.   Harbinger does not destroy the Normandy.
        3.   Shepard survives a blast that should one-shot Makos and Gunships.
        4.   Harbinger just leaves.


     X) The Citadel :

        1.   The Citadel resembles events of the past.
        2.   You can find Coats dead on the Citadel.

----------Epilogue----------

I would again like to thank everyone that has contributed to this list and if only a single person gains a broader perspective of The Indoctrination Theory through this list, the porpuse of this undertaking has been fulfilled and not in vain. This list may seem to be complete, but there are certainly going to be new discoveries in the course of exploring new content and I will try to adjust this list accordingly.


Version 1.1  (01.12.2012)

Prothean this is why I think IT is true.

[BatmanTurian]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

Nothing indicates the possible implimentation of the theory? Its like you skipped straight here to insult us without bothering to check out the links on the front page.

Give 'im a break. Let's not get defensive too quickly. TheProtheans seems curious, which is good.

[TheProtheans]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

Nothing indicates the possible implimentation of the theory? Its like you skipped straight here to insult us without bothering to check out the links on the front page.

Technically speaking I was talking about post-ME3 and Bioware's behavior.
I already know all the in-game evidence.

[Rifneno]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
If there was an option to play offline, then I'd like this idea. Except for the Shepard being the antagonist, because that means that Shepards story isnt over which Bioware has stated dozens of times is with ME3.

But it isn't Shepard anymore! He siezed to be Shepard and became Darth Spectrus instead. He is more machine now than a man.

Isn't it cute how people who picked control think Shepbinger will do whatever they'd do even though the thing refers to itself as a seperate entity (when it's not giving sugar coated versions of other Reaper speeches).

I didn't pick Control though, so...

Yeah, I know.  You're all for rape-goo Shepard.  I mean all the Control supporters who have threads about how they'll handle the galaxy after ME3 because they totally think they're still in control of that abomination they created.

[Cyberfrog81]

TheProtheans is feigning interest, to encourage you to say things he then can make fun of.

Restrider wrote...

I guess EC is the problem here. Show people a few nice slides and IT is no more. Ignore other games, where BW has pulled off something similar (was it Neverwinter Nights?).

Or Jade Empire. It's got to be a huge spoiler (so consider yourself warned), but it's also pretty badass:

[Restrider]

I guess this list is the most quoted post in Mark III?

[umadcommander]

TheProtheans wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

No, themes and evidence within the universe itself supports the literary theory that Shepard was undergoing indoctrination and is not indoctrinated until choosing to align his or her goals with the Reapers. It's not my head-canon, it's what the ending is. Because a literal ending makes no sense (logically or scientifically) no matter how much you try to explain it that way.

What if that is just what it is, what if it is just something that doesn't make sense.
What if it is something that was better as an idea in someones head.

your sentences are filled with what ifs, well what if its right?

What if it  is not right? what if it is right?
Largely irrelevant questions.

The real question is how will ITers react to each of the outcomes.

people who support this theory wont start flipping desks if it is proven wrong, so far no one has managed to prove it wrong without resorting to trolling or insults

[Hanako Ikezawa]

"What if it is(just a story)? What a wonderful story it is. But if it's not(just a story), then just think of the possibilities."

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 03 décembre 2012 - 11:59 .

[BatmanTurian]

TheProtheans wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

hukbum wrote...
So ... why are you here anyway?

To find out why people believe in these theories with a passion despite nothing indicating the implementation of such a theory within a reasonably timeframe of the games release.

Question: For everyone in this thread.

Do you head canon Indoctrination in the ending?

No, themes and evidence within the universe itself supports the literary theory that Shepard was undergoing indoctrination and is not indoctrinated until choosing to align his or her goals with the Reapers. It's not my head-canon, it's what the ending is. Because a literal ending makes no sense (logically or scientifically) no matter how much you try to explain it that way.

What if that is just what it is, what if it is just something that doesn't make sense.
What if it is something that was better as an idea in someones head.

your sentences are filled with what ifs, well what if its right?

What if it  is not right? what if it is right?
Largely irrelevant questions.

The real question is how will ITers react to each of the outcomes.

If not right, big friggin' deal. Move on.
If right, Bioware can SHUTUP AND TAKE MY MONEY.

I really have nothing to lose because this is a video game and an anonymous forum, a place filled with people whose opinions I hardly care about except for the people whose presence I enjoy. My life is not centered around IT and it will not be affected negatively if I am wrong. I will just not care and move on.

[demersel]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
I suppose, but they'd have to work in every possible custom Shep face into Shepards animations and cutscenes. That or put them in full body armor so we don't even recognize it as Shepard except maybe a filtered voice..

That is wrong - every custom face has the same animations - it is just the matter of the face code and its import - imagine how awesome it would be to play against your own personal Shepard, voiced once again by Mark Meer or Jennifer Hale - but this time he'd be illusive man or saren to you. And all this with the face and voice you've come to love - it is much bigger than just have some hollywood star do a villian. 

[CoolioThane]

TheProtheans wrote...



What if it  is not right? what if it is right?
Largely irrelevant questions.

The real question is how will ITers react to each of the outcomes.

But then those questions you listed are relevant. Jesus