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[PsiMatrix]

Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

demersel wrote...

 By the way guys, just wanted to remind all those who say Bioware and EA are not smart enough to pull out IT -
here's the ending to a simple mainstream horror shooter produced and published by the very same evil dumb EA -
www.youtube.com/watch

So "it was all just a dream" endings are genius endings these days? It stopped being genius after A Link To The Past did it. That's the only game that managed to pull of the "All Just A Dream" trope rather well.

You mean Link's Awakening, which was so much retarded in one place it almost collapsed into itself.  Link To The Past was nothing to do with dreams, and actually a good game.

I thought Link to the Past was like... time travel or something?

No, I believe it was an alternate dimension.  I forget the details, haven't played it in eons.  Last non-handheld Zelda I got a chance to play.

It was about a parallel world called the Golden Land with 'Golden' being relative to the wielder of the Triforce. So Ganon bust his way in and the Golden Land was turned into the Dark World. It was the first of their light vs dark themed games.

[CmdrShep80]

paxxton wrote...

For those who awaited the return of my custom avatar. Behold!

i am beheld of my words (if that makes any sense lol)

[CmdrShep80]

Skillz1986 wrote...

I'M WRITING IN CAPITALS, SINCE THIS POST WILL GET OVERLOOLED OTHERWISE

IT'S PROBABLY NOT SIGNIFICANT BUT THE FIRST TIME YOU GET CONTACZED BY HACKETT (HE TELLS YOU TO GO TO THE MARS ARCHIVES) HIS SCAR IS ON THE LEFT SIDE OF HOS FACE (HIS LEFT SIDE) DURING THE REST OF THE GAME HOWEVER IT IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HIS FACE

can you show us pictures?  I'm curious if a mirror image was involved for some reason

[BatmanTurian]

TheConstantOne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

I'm just going to post this here for more comments. This is an idea I brought up a while ago but it never got much discussion going for it:

I would like to suggest the possibility that the Reapers are nothing more than very advanced husks, Leviathan husks in particular.

Being constructed from the genetics of other species would make the Reapers different than the conventional husks we see, which retain at least some outward semblance of the species used to create it. The apparent intelligence difference (or rather, flexibility of thinking) also appears much greater in a Reaper than in a husk footsoldier.

But consider this: from our point of view, husks have a far more limited focus. So much of a limited focus that they seem to have lost their former intelligence and could be classified as sophisticated VIs. Some evidence of higher intelligence can be seen in the strategies they use in battles but, in the end, they only have competence within the context of their function.

But the Leviathans were EXTREMELY intelligent. Far beyond where we currently are in the evolutionary curve. A Leviathan husk to us would seem immensely intelligent. However, a Leviathan would likely see a Reaper as nothing more than a crude, mindless imitation, much as we view human husks.

To me, this means that, as crazy as it may seem, the Reapers are actually extremely complicated VIs. Their thinking appears to be genuine AI because of how complex the Leviathans' minds were.

What this means in the context of the ME universe is, quite simply, that unless the Leviathan intelligence itself is destroyed, the threat that the Reapers posed will outlive them. Shepard destroys the Reapers in this cycle but the Intelligence, should it survive, will try to find another way to fulfill this function. How it might evolve its own methods to do this is a complete wild card at this point but it will certainly do whatever it feels it has to to gain control of evolution.

Anyway, just wanted to throw this out here. Might be a possibility for where ME 4 could go. Then again, maybe not. What's everyone think?

I've been pretty sure the Reapers are cyborg zombies since ME2 so yeah, advanced husks fits but I think husks are VI's where as Reapers are AI's . As for the intelligence the leviathans made, I'm with Doomsday. Harbinger is the original intelligence after it downloaded itself into a Reaper made out of Leviathans.

I'm not so convinced it is Harbinger.  I view the Inteligence as a TIM-like figure.  It seeks to control and works through subsidiaries.  An experimenter should remove himself as much as possible from an experiment in order to get the best results.  The Reapers may seem AIs by our definition but from The Int's and the Leviathans' point of view are nothing more VIs.  And thus, are part of Int's experiment as well.  Even if it is only a "reset" role.

If the Int was to download itself into Harbinger and personally handle the cleaning, it would be pretty redundant.  It built the Reapers as its cycle reset tool.  Why become a tool itself?

Harbinger is made of Leviathans. Like probably billions of them. Therefore, he can create an enthrallment more powerful than the one in the Leviathan DLC. The Intelligence wanted that power so that it could control both organics and synthetics. Harbinger is there at the beam run where he zaps you and it goes to a dream transition and then there's the *zap* . I think Harbinger is guiding things in the unconcious delusion if he's not the "Catalyst" itself. He is the oldest and first Reaper, largest and most powerful and the implied leader. I think it's a pretty open and shut case that he's this " intelligence" that turned on them.

[CmdrShep80]

Well, the last page I viewed was page 2287 and we're already on page 2318 omg! You all are awesome. Wait till evil Chris has on his hands when he gets back from vacation. He'll decide to never go on vacation again (at least not without checking threads first)

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...
If it was anyone else, I'd assume the irony was intentional.

Indeed.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I like how he speaks so authoritatively on behalf of everyone. Really strengthens the points he's making

That's because I don't spend all my time in this little hole but actually spend time on the main forum as well. I talk to many people from BSN, also outside of BSN. I'd never make bold claims about the fanbase without knowing it is true, but this time I know for a fact that what I said about the majority is true for 2 reasons:

1) I speak with the other people

2) the stats of the poll made by one of you ITers show this. Look at the information Restrider gathered. You can't deny those stats.

Oh please. You poke your miserable head into threads that barely have anything to do with IT and spew nothing but ignorance and misinformation.

[The Heretic of Time]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Harbinger is made of Leviathans. Like probably billions of them. Therefore, he can create an enthrallment more powerful than the one in the Leviathan DLC. The Intelligence wanted that power so that it could control both organics and synthetics. Harbinger is there at the beam run where he zaps you and it goes to a dream transition and then there's the *zap* . I think Harbinger is guiding things in the unconcious delusion if he's not the "Catalyst" itself. He is the oldest and first Reaper, largest and most powerful and the implied leader. I think it's a pretty open and shut case that he's this " intelligence" that turned on them.

How can Harbinger be the intelligence that turned on the Leviathans and turned them into a reaper, if Harbinger himself is that reaper made from the Leviathans? That doesn't make any sense.

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...
 I didn't get that vibe. It was more like " oh my god she's alive, thank god. Now I'll follow her around like a puppy and do everything she says because I love her and she would never betray me."

No it wasn't like that. He knew she was dead. But he thought she was a ghost that turured him, imprinted onto his brain by the artifact in the first game. Which she was. But he thought that she was just his memory of her, angered by his guilt. And he thought that he menaged to make piece with himself and by extension her. It was a surprise that she was actual evil manifistation. and that manifistation was real. He knew she didn't really wished him well, he just didn't expect her to be actually real monster living inside his brain. 

[BatmanTurian]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Sounds like an ending that could be cool. The IT could also have been cool if it was in the game from the very beginning. Trying to implement it retroactively just doesn't work for so many reasons. For starters; it would feel incredibly cheap and everyone would feel ripped off for several reasons. Some people actually started to like the current endings, and other people like me just simply have to puke by the very idea that I'll have to pay 20 bucks more to get my real trilogy ending.

Well... it wouldn't be retro-actively because it's already there but then Dead Space did reveal the deception before the game ended.

It's not there. If it was there than the majority of the fanbase would see it. This is not the case. The vast majority doesn't see it. That means it's rather poorly implemented, or not implemented at all.

I mean seriously, most of those "clues" you folks dig up are truly far-fetched. I really can't believe that BioWare would have planned something like IT. If they would implement IT, it would be retroactively.

Well... let's try not to mix opinions with facts here...

And what part of my post is opinion?

Everything I just said is fact bro.

The bolded are opinons. It's rather well implemented if people didn't figure it out. It's an ending designed to trick you, similar to Jade Empire's ending. The rest of it is your bias talking.

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
 I didn't get that vibe. It was more like " oh my god she's alive, thank god. Now I'll follow her around like a puppy and do everything she says because I love her and she would never betray me."

No it wasn't like that. He knew she was dead. But he thought she was a ghost that turured him, imprinted onto his brain by the artifact in the first game. Which she was. But he thought that she was just his memory of her, angered by his guilt. And he thought that he menaged to make piece with himself and by extension her. It was a surprise that she was actual evil manifistation. and that manifistation was real. He knew she didn't really wished him well, he just didn't expect her to be actually real monster living inside his brain. 

Well, we can agree to disagree.

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Better if you explain it or show him a video.

I did post a link to the video. in my very first post on that topic. 

[The Heretic of Time]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I like how he speaks so authoritatively on behalf of everyone. Really strengthens the points he's making

That's because I don't spend all my time in this little hole but actually spend time on the main forum as well. I talk to many people from BSN, also outside of BSN. I'd never make bold claims about the fanbase without knowing it is true, but this time I know for a fact that what I said about the majority is true for 2 reasons:

1) I speak with the other people

2) the stats of the poll made by one of you ITers show this. Look at the information Restrider gathered. You can't deny those stats.

Oh please. You poke your miserable head into threads that barely have anything to do with IT and spew nothing but ignorance and misinformation.

Don't talk about crap you know nothing about. You don't know what I do or did on the BSN and you don't know who I talked to and what I talked about. Unless you're a creepy stalker that follows me around on the board, a very misinformed stalker it seems.

You know nothing about me pall, other than the bit of information I made public about myself on the BSN.

[Andromidius]

401 Kill wrote...

I just want to restate something I posted yesterday, I'm not sure if anybody else has come up with this.

What does the Squad Evac scene at the end remind you of?

For me, it reminds me of when Anderson tells Shepard to leave him behind on Earth, while Shepard escapes on the Normandy. Your squad is standing on the ramp leading up to the Normandy, not wishing to leave Shepard behind. Shepard is standing on the ramp of the Normandy, not wanting to leave Anderson behind. It seemed like certain suicide in both cases. There even is a Reaper ship in close proximity that refuses to fire upon the Normandy. The most interesting part of this is:

Shepard and Anderson are eventually reunited.

Good point.  The scene is pretty well mirrored.

Of course, the main difference is that during Shepard's escape from Earth the Normandy didn't arrive instantly. 

The squad's evac was instant, despite the fact the Normandy was busy fighting in space alongside the rest of Sword fleet.

Legit.

[byne]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I like how he speaks so authoritatively on behalf of everyone. Really strengthens the points he's making

That's because I don't spend all my time in this little hole but actually spend time on the main forum as well. I talk to many people from BSN, also outside of BSN. I'd never make bold claims about the fanbase without knowing it is true, but this time I know for a fact that what I said about the majority is true for 2 reasons:

1) I speak with the other people

2) the stats of the poll made by one of you ITers show this. Look at the information Restrider gathered. You can't deny those stats.

Oh please. You poke your miserable head into threads that barely have anything to do with IT and spew nothing but ignorance and misinformation.

Don't talk about crap you know nothing about. You don't know what I do or did on the BSN and you don't know who I talked to and what I talked about. Unless you're a creepy stalker that follows me around on the board, a very misinformed stalker it seems.

You know nothing about me pall, other than the bit of information I made public about myself on the BSN.

I was going to make a "he's not your pal, buddy" joke, until I realized you spelled pal wrong, and now thats all I can focus on.

Modifié par byne, 04 décembre 2012 - 03:15 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Harbinger is made of Leviathans. Like probably billions of them. Therefore, he can create an enthrallment more powerful than the one in the Leviathan DLC. The Intelligence wanted that power so that it could control both organics and synthetics. Harbinger is there at the beam run where he zaps you and it goes to a dream transition and then there's the *zap* . I think Harbinger is guiding things in the unconcious delusion if he's not the "Catalyst" itself. He is the oldest and first Reaper, largest and most powerful and the implied leader. I think it's a pretty open and shut case that he's this " intelligence" that turned on them.

How can Harbinger be the intelligence that turned on the Leviathans and turned them into a reaper, if Harbinger himself is that reaper made from the Leviathans? That doesn't make any sense.

Because the Leviathans explicitly say so.

[BatmanTurian]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Harbinger is made of Leviathans. Like probably billions of them. Therefore, he can create an enthrallment more powerful than the one in the Leviathan DLC. The Intelligence wanted that power so that it could control both organics and synthetics. Harbinger is there at the beam run where he zaps you and it goes to a dream transition and then there's the *zap* . I think Harbinger is guiding things in the unconcious delusion if he's not the "Catalyst" itself. He is the oldest and first Reaper, largest and most powerful and the implied leader. I think it's a pretty open and shut case that he's this " intelligence" that turned on them.

How can Harbinger be the intelligence that turned on the Leviathans and turned them into a reaper, if Harbinger himself is that reaper made from the Leviathans? That doesn't make any sense.

Sure it does if you remember that the organics that the Leviathans were entralling were rebelling by creating Synthetics to fight the Leviathans. The Leviathans created the intelligence to figure out how to fight the Synthetics and the intelligence figured out that the Leviathans and their organic thralls were the problem. SO, it hacked all of the AI, turned them on the organics, and forced the AI's to construct the first Reaper and then it installed itself inside. Then it created more Reapers from the other organic races of the first cycle (probably destroyers).

And now it does this for every cycle. It hacks the AI in the cycle to turn on the Organics because organics are the "problem". It's stuck in a logic loop.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 04 décembre 2012 - 03:18 .

[Dwailing]

So, I just visited YouTube, and... the artists for Katawa Shoujo were very, um, detailed, weren't they?

[byne]

Dwailing wrote...

So, I just visited YouTube, and... the artists for Katawa Shoujo were very, um, detailed, weren't they?

Not sure what you mean.

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Better if you explain it or show him a video.

I did post a link to the video. in my very first post on that topic. 

I must have missed it.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I like how he speaks so authoritatively on behalf of everyone. Really strengthens the points he's making

That's because I don't spend all my time in this little hole but actually spend time on the main forum as well. I talk to many people from BSN, also outside of BSN. I'd never make bold claims about the fanbase without knowing it is true, but this time I know for a fact that what I said about the majority is true for 2 reasons:

1) I speak with the other people

2) the stats of the poll made by one of you ITers show this. Look at the information Restrider gathered. You can't deny those stats.

Oh please. You poke your miserable head into threads that barely have anything to do with IT and spew nothing but ignorance and misinformation.

Don't talk about crap you know nothing about. You don't know what I do or did on the BSN and you don't know who I talked to and what I talked about. Unless you're a creepy stalker that follows me around on the board, a very misinformed stalker it seems.

You know nothing about me pall, other than the bit of information I made public about myself on the BSN.

I don't stalk you. Don't worry. Its just that stupid avatar and sig of yours are hard to miss. 

[The Heretic of Time]

BatmanTurian wrote...

The bolded are opinons. It's rather well implemented if people didn't figure it out. It's an ending designed to trick you, similar to Jade Empire's ending. The rest of it is your bias talking.

Which would be great if the game itself revealed that we were tricked. However, it doesn't. Instead, BioWare did the exact opposite. They made the EC to expand on the endings in a literal way to make us happy with the endings. Now lots of people are content with their ending, be it Control, Synthesis, Destroy or Refuse. The BioWare staff also keeps saying and keep repeating they're NOT going to change, add on or expand the endings anymore. The endings are FINISHED. People learned to live with it and moved on. Most people like the endings now. The people who don't moved on, except for you IT folk it seems.

Pulling an IT plot-twist NOW would only ****** a lot of people off and it would truly do BioWare more harm than good. They should have done that when the hype was at the greatest. They should have done that instead of the EC. But they didn't. They decided to give us an EC that expanded on the endings in a literal way instead. That kind of killed the IT for most people, except the minority posting in this thread.

You see, I bet that if Restrider made a poll about the IT BEFORE the EC, a whole lot more people would be inclined to believe they were tricked and that the ending wasn't real. But BioWare completely destroyed that idea for most people by expanding on the endings in a literal way with the EC. It's the EC that killed the IT really.

[Andromidius]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Harbinger is made of Leviathans. Like probably billions of them. Therefore, he can create an enthrallment more powerful than the one in the Leviathan DLC. The Intelligence wanted that power so that it could control both organics and synthetics. Harbinger is there at the beam run where he zaps you and it goes to a dream transition and then there's the *zap* . I think Harbinger is guiding things in the unconcious delusion if he's not the "Catalyst" itself. He is the oldest and first Reaper, largest and most powerful and the implied leader. I think it's a pretty open and shut case that he's this " intelligence" that turned on them.

How can Harbinger be the intelligence that turned on the Leviathans and turned them into a reaper, if Harbinger himself is that reaper made from the Leviathans? That doesn't make any sense.

Because the Leviathans explicitly say so.

Wasn't it something along the lines of Harbinger being the first Reaper, and was then used to defeat the Leviathans?  My memory is a bit hazy on this.

Checked the wiki (lol) and it says pretty much that the Leviathans went into hiding after Harbinger's creation, who then began the Cycles.

But then that's coming from the Leviathans.  Who can't be trusted in the slightest.

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

So, I just visited YouTube, and... the artists for Katawa Shoujo were very, um, detailed, weren't they?

Not sure what you mean.

Consider what we were discussing earlier, and you might get a better idea what I'm referring to.

[BatmanTurian]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

The bolded are opinons. It's rather well implemented if people didn't figure it out. It's an ending designed to trick you, similar to Jade Empire's ending. The rest of it is your bias talking.

Which would be great if the game itself revealed that we were tricked. However, it doesn't. Instead, BioWare did the exact opposite. They made the EC to expand on the endings in a literal way to make us happy with the endings. Now lots of people are content with their ending, be it Control, Synthesis, Destroy or Refuse. The BioWare staff also keeps saying and keep repeating they're NOT going to change, add on or expand the endings anymore. The endings are FINISHED. People learned to live with it and moved on. Most people like the endings now. The people who don't moved on, except for you IT folk it seems.

Pulling an IT plot-twist NOW would only ****** a lot of people off and it would truly do BioWare more harm than good. They should have done that when the hype was at the greatest. They should have done that instead of the EC. But they didn't. They decided to give us an EC that expanded on the endings in a literal way instead. That kind of killed the IT for most people, except the minority posting in this thread.

You see, I bet that if Restrider made a poll about the IT BEFORE the EC, a whole lot more people would be inclined to believe they were tricked and that the ending wasn't real. But BioWare completely destroyed that idea for most people by expanding on the endings in a literal way with the EC. It's the EC that killed the IT really.

The EC created even more questions than it answered, actually.