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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#58001
byne

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masster blaster wrote...

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Ah I remember I once that there was an IT council. Ah the memorys, and was it me, or was I the nice guy in the IT group before I went crazy from reading to muc Synthesis, and Control threads. Talking about saving the Reapers/ it's not their fault/ why would you kill the Reapers?.


Masster, you dont still think there was an IT council, do you?


No.


Good, good. Thats what we want you to think.

#58002
shepskisaac

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Andromidius wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
The ending is actually Shep taking a nap after Harby's blast. Now that sounds legit!


Overly simplistic explainations for overly simplistic minds.

It was a joke /EDI :P And don't go into "you're just not intelligent enough to get IT" mode, because plenty of people could respond with similar argument about believing in IT

magnetite wrote...

Leviathan basically told us that the Starbrat (Intelligence) is Harbinger. And that each cycle ends with the birth of a Reaper, or he's going to harvest all life. Confirmation of synthesis.

He embodies collective intelligence of all Reapers so he's all of them in a way, but none of the Reapers is the Intelligence. And certinately Levi never suggested the Intelligence is directly the same entity as Harbinger

Modifié par IsaacShep, 04 décembre 2012 - 03:55 .


#58003
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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ElSuperGecko wrote...

Just took a quick look on HTL - the thread is still going strong, with almost 80% of voters saying they believed in IT. Without looking through the 30 or so pages, I'm not even sure CP followed up any further in the thread, or just threw the pipe bomb in there and waited for the results...

demersel wrote...
There is still a question whether or not that concept actually needs a reveal to be complete.
On one hand - it is to beautifull to be spoiled and trivialised by a reveal.


This.  A reveal is not necessary - and in some ways it would be counterproductive, especially if they're planning on a radical change of direction for ME4.  At the end of the day, Bioware could keep people guessing forever, one way or another.  People could be playing the game 20 years from now and still wondering "what if...?"

A reveal would break that spell irrevocably.  Any satisfactuion that could be gained from it would be temporary - and not everyone would be satisfied, either.  As long as you're sure, as long as you're confident in your own decision, that should be enough.  Like Bioware said, it's the fan's story as well.  They've effectively let you decide the ending.

Bioware could potentially take the truth to the grave with them.  Was Shepard being indoctrinated?  Did I make the right choice?  Did the top stop spinning?


I'll just say I don't think they'll be taking a *radical* change of direction.

Female krogans.

I can say no more :(

#58004
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Ah I remember I once that there was an IT council. Ah the memorys, and was it me, or was I the nice guy in the IT group before I went crazy from reading to muc Synthesis, and Control threads. Talking about saving the Reapers/ it's not their fault/ why would you kill the Reapers?.


Masster, you dont still think there was an IT council, do you?


No.


Good, good. Thats what we want you to think.


Let me in! I deserve it! :devil:

#58005
ZerebusPrime

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Capt. Pancake wrote...


am I grasping at staws?
or am I just insain?


Insane?  Your name is Capt. Pancake.  Insanity should be a given with no bearing on whether or not believing in the Indoctrination Theory is itself valid.

#58006
Rifneno

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SwobyJ wrote...

I'll just say I don't think they'll be taking a *radical* change of direction.

Female krogans.

I can say no more :(


Fertile female krogan on board ship.

Later, James finds mystery eggs and makes some kind of omelet.

.... :?

#58007
acidic-ph0

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SwobyJ wrote...

Eryri wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Quck question - did CP ever give any indication of Bioware's intent with the Indoctrination Theory poll he posted on the HTL forums? I'm just wondering why he (they) would go to the trouble of polling the fans about it...


I'd like to know that too. I would find it very odd if he just did it out of idle curiosity. As Community Manager he is a public face of Bioware, so he must realise the importance we fans attach to everything he posts.


Wow. It's kinda crazy he did this.

:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:


Yeah I remember seeing that some time ago... I thought it was very strange for a Bioware employee to show any concern at all with a "fan-made" theory.

It did give me some hope that Bioware could have been throwing out ideas on integrating IT into the game based on fan approval. And in some ways, I'm still a bit hopeful that perhaps that poll may have had some influence on this so called "super-DLC" that all the writers are working on now. I mean, considering how long DLC tends to take to produce, I think the timing fits...

I'd like that to be the case but eh... not holding my breath =(

#58008
masster blaster

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byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Ah I remember I once that there was an IT council. Ah the memorys, and was it me, or was I the nice guy in the IT group before I went crazy from reading to muc Synthesis, and Control threads. Talking about saving the Reapers/ it's not their fault/ why would you kill the Reapers?.


Masster, you dont still think there was an IT council, do you?


No.


Good, good. Thats what we want you to think.


i will have to check in with C-sec about this... Council.

#58009
demersel

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SwobyJ - actually yes. - They are known for giving people what they ask for.
Female krogans, salarians, and now even turians.
IT reveal is underway.

#58010
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demersel wrote...

Eryri - Omega should give you much hope for the things to come then.

All SP Story DLC for Mass Effect 3 are IT DLCs.

From Ashes is a set up.
Extended Cut is a double check question.
Leviathan is a statement.
Omega is a promise.


Agreed.

And as I put it:

Original Ending is the Dream.
Extended Cut is deeper REM sleep.
Leviathan is the groggy beginning of waking up.
Omega is being rattled awake.
Next one is?......

#58011
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Rifneno wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

I'll just say I don't think they'll be taking a *radical* change of direction.

Female krogans.

I can say no more :(


Fertile female krogan on board ship.

Later, James finds mystery eggs and makes some kind of omelet.

.... :?


Funny, but wrong. I can't say what I really mean though :(

#58012
Rifneno

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I've got precious little faith in remaining DLCs after Omega. Omega was fine as a combat-centric DLC, but seriously, who plays Mass Effect for the combat?

#58013
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demersel wrote...

SwobyJ - actually yes. - They are known for giving people what they ask for.
Female krogans, salarians, and now even turians.
IT reveal is underway.


Also wrong from what I meant. But I can't say :(

You're right in spirit though - they give the fans what they want, and some things are yet to come.

#58014
byne

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Rifneno wrote...

I've got precious little faith in remaining DLCs after Omega. Omega was fine as a combat-centric DLC, but seriously, who plays Mass Effect for the combat?


The multiplayer people. And like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure the MP team made Omega.

#58015
Andromidius

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Rifneno wrote...

I've got precious little faith in remaining DLCs after Omega. Omega was fine as a combat-centric DLC, but seriously, who plays Mass Effect for the combat?


Multiplayers.

#58016
masster blaster

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So how muc do you all think Chris is going to close us personally?

#58017
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I've got precious little faith in remaining DLCs after Omega. Omega was fine as a combat-centric DLC, but seriously, who plays Mass Effect for the combat?


The multiplayer people. And like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure the MP team made Omega.


Bioware-Montreal is no longer the 'MP Team'. They're going to be centric to the Mass Effect series, going forward.

#58018
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BatmanTurian wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Yeah, synthesis is a Reaper-approved evolutionary path. How could that possibly be good news for us? Not even EDI sounds like EDI, and that's likely to be intentional. You didn't save everyone. Everyone is gone, since they're not themselves anymore. They're now "in harmony" with the Reapers. What a sweet victory, huh?


Here's a wierd, out-there thought. What if Shepard really is dead in Synthesis (wasn't real and Shepard got huskified, or Saren-ed), fast-forward everyone dies, Harvest is completed, and EDI is reprogrammed and placed inside a Human Reaper or becomes the Human Reaper's intelligence instead of Shep in Control.  Then we could be seeing a virtual reality from EDI's point of view (she narrates it after all and all her "hopes and dreams" come true), a "First Matrix" for EDI keeping her happy even as some part of her operates as a Reaper hibernating in Dark Space (EDI isn't an organic so she would never need to wake up from a "perfect world" because she doesn't need suffering to affirm what is real or not)?

Oh, sh** that's depressing...


WOW!!

That'd be a new solution for the Reapers all right. (for figuring out how to stop future cycles' resistance before it occurs again)

#58019
Rifneno

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SwobyJ wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I've got precious little faith in remaining DLCs after Omega. Omega was fine as a combat-centric DLC, but seriously, who plays Mass Effect for the combat?


The multiplayer people. And like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure the MP team made Omega.


Bioware-Montreal is no longer the 'MP Team'. They're going to be centric to the Mass Effect series, going forward.


Oh Jesus, I hope they're not going to let those people fail up SP with their combat voluses and their guns using thermal clips yet spitting out shell casings, ect.

#58020
BeastSaver

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IsaacShep wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
The ending is actually Shep taking a nap after Harby's blast. Now that sounds legit!


Overly simplistic explainations for overly simplistic minds.

It was a joke /EDI :P And don't go into "you're just not intelligent enough to get IT" mode, because plenty of people could respond with similar argument about believing in IT

magnetite wrote...

Leviathan basically told us that the Starbrat (Intelligence) is Harbinger. And that each cycle ends with the birth of a Reaper, or he's going to harvest all life. Confirmation of synthesis.

He embodies collective intelligence of all Reapers so he's all of them in a way, but none of the Reapers is the Intelligence. And certinately Levi never suggested the Intelligence is directly the same entity as Harbinger


Does anyone else wonder why the Catalyst says "So be it" in Harbinger's voice when Shepard refuses?

Modifié par BeastSaver, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:11 .


#58021
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Rifneno wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I've got precious little faith in remaining DLCs after Omega. Omega was fine as a combat-centric DLC, but seriously, who plays Mass Effect for the combat?


The multiplayer people. And like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure the MP team made Omega.


Bioware-Montreal is no longer the 'MP Team'. They're going to be centric to the Mass Effect series, going forward.


Oh Jesus, I hope they're not going to let those people fail up SP with their combat voluses and their guns using thermal clips yet spitting out shell casings, ect.


*shrug* I dunno.

But you know I find the combat voluses funny anyway.

#58022
Big_Boss9

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Rifneno wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I've got precious little faith in remaining DLCs after Omega. Omega was fine as a combat-centric DLC, but seriously, who plays Mass Effect for the combat?


The multiplayer people. And like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure the MP team made Omega.


Bioware-Montreal is no longer the 'MP Team'. They're going to be centric to the Mass Effect series, going forward.


Oh Jesus, I hope they're not going to let those people fail up SP with their combat voluses and their guns using thermal clips yet spitting out shell casings, ect.

Indeed. Their "flash over substance" approach to Omega concerns me about the future of the franchise.

#58023
Andromidius

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You know, I'm a bit fed up of all the people claiming IT is all about Shepard dreaming.

Yeah. And Dragon Age's The Fade was all about just dreaming too, wasn't it? Oh wait, no it wasn't.

The Fade obviously aren't the same thing as Indoctrination, but they are suspitiously similar. Both use memories to construct a false reality, and attempt to trap the victim inside it. Both are highly manipulative and sinister in nature. Both have an effect on the 'real world'. And both are used by maleviolent horror-beings that want to use their victims for their own goals.

Edit: And both were supposedly impossible to escape once you're caught in the trap.  The Fade was escapable, if you had enough willpower.  Indoctrination...

Modifié par Andromidius, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:17 .


#58024
Guest_magnetite_*

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He embodies collective intelligence of all Reapers so he's all of them in a way, but none of the Reapers is the Intelligence. And certinately Levi never suggested the Intelligence is directly the same entity as Harbinger


Does anyone else wonder why the Catalyst says "So be it" in Harbinger's voice when Shepard refuses?


Regardless, he is some form of Reaper AI. I wouldn't trust him or put the fate of the galaxy at stake for his "ideal solutions" for a second.

Actually the codex says he's just the hallucination of a ghostly presence. Not to mention:

Posted Image

Oily shadows! Even without editing that, you can kind of make them out in his hair.

Modifié par magnetite, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:16 .


#58025
Capt. Pancake

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

Capt. Pancake wrote...


am I grasping at staws?
or am I just insain?


Insane?  Your name is Capt. Pancake.  Insanity should be a given with no bearing on whether or not believing in the Indoctrination Theory is itself valid.

not quite the help I was looking for but thanks all the same
btw can take a joke so ha ha

Modifié par Capt. Pancake, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:19 .