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[Rifneno]

Andromidius wrote...

The list of guilible attributes he had was staggering.  But he was a good guy.  Just thick as a plank.

Did a picture of Vega just pop into anyone else's head?

[spotlessvoid]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

The list of guilible attributes he had was staggering.  But he was a good guy.  Just thick as a plank.

Did a picture of Vega just pop into anyone else's head?

Hmmmm

[ZerebusPrime]

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

The dwarven ruling castes need to be... "cleansed." The **** they do to their own people makes what what the mages and elves go through look like fun.

So who do you support, Harrowmont or Bhelen?

They're both garbage.

When I played a Dwarven Noble (my avatar pic is a Castless only because the castle tattoo was more awesome than a noble's helmet tattoo), I had wanted the Assembly scene at the end of the Orzammar storyline to end like this:

Steward Bandelor: "Enough!  Tell us, Warden.  Who did the Paragon choose to support?"
Warden Duran: "Me." *places crown on own brow*  *orders companions:* "Take them."
*Leliana puts an arrow in Harrowmont's head, Duran puts a knife in Bhelen's heart, and the rest slaughter anyone in the assembly who so much as looks at Duran funny*

But no..... it would have made the game too complex if you could play two thirds of it while also being the sitting king of Orzammar.

[byne]

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

The dwarven ruling castes need to be... "cleansed." The **** they do to their own people makes what what the mages and elves go through look like fun.

So who do you support, Harrowmont or Bhelen?

They're both garbage.

Harrowmont is the lesser evil, so I picked him.  Would be strange supporting my brother after he betrayed me in any case.

I think Harrowmont is horrible for Orzammar. He's way too much of an isolationist.

If you picked Harrowmont, and asked the Alistair/Anora for aid against the darkspawn in the deeproads as a dwarf, when the human armies arrive at the gates of Orzammar to help, Harrowmont doesnt let them in. He also doesnt do anything about the casteless, whereas Bhelen lets them take up arms to fight the darkspawn. He also lets the humans in, and with their aid, many thaigs are reclaimed, and the darkspawn are pushed all the way back to the Dead Trenches.

Harrowmont just sucks and dies after a few years, none of his policies being successful.

[Andromidius]

Since we're talking about older Bioware games, would it be worth me trying Jade Empire? Is the game itself decent, or is it all about the story?

[ZerebusPrime]

MWMike2011 wrote...

Anything new? I've been gone for MAYBE 24 hours and missed 50 pages...

I guy named Captain Pancake showed up a few pages back.  His post was swallowed up by other posters talking to themselves.  Alas, I seem to be the only one to respond to or mention the bloke.

[Rifneno]

Whatever. Video game theories are stupid. Video games are always straight forward. Next you're going to be telling me that Braid was about the atomic bomb.

[byne]

Andromidius wrote...

Since we're talking about older Bioware games, would it be worth me trying Jade Empire? Is the game itself decent, or is it all about the story?

I played it a while ago. It was pretty good.

[Lokanaiya]

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

The dwarven ruling castes need to be... "cleansed." The **** they do to their own people makes what what the mages and elves go through look like fun.

So who do you support, Harrowmont or Bhelen?

They're both garbage.

Harrowmont is the lesser evil, so I picked him.  Would be strange supporting my brother after he betrayed me in any case.

That being said, if I had the chance I would have changed things.  My Dwarf was very much equal oppertunies in his attitude - not being an arse to common Dwarves, being friendly with Gorim, thinking the Castless should be allowed to return to the city, getting on with Elves and Humans, accepting parlay even to Darkspawn and Werewolves... 

The list of guilible attributes he had was staggering.  But he was a good guy.  Just thick as a plank.

... Where did you get that? I mean, true, Harrowmont's less of a jerkass and isn't quite as manipulative, but he's also stuck in the old ways and is extremely isolationist... it's a good thing he dies after a few years, because if not, there might have been only one Dwarven city left after a while.

[Andromidius]

byne wrote...
I think Harrowmont is horrible for Orzammar. He's way too much of an isolationist.

And as you said, old.  I just wanted someone to stablise the city, and someone better to come along later.

Of course, you can't get a simple 'good' choice there.  But oh well.  Better to dash the crown on the ground and declare "Orzammar has no king" and let them kill each other in a frenzied rage.  Nobles made for poor politicians, better to each Paragons from each of the castes rule as a council.

But nope.  No choice for that.

I was actually very confused at how Dwarves acted during my Origin.  They are worse then Klingons!

[Andromidius]

Lokanaiya wrote...
... Where did you get that? I mean, true, Harrowmont's less of a jerkass and isn't quite as manipulative, but he's also stuck in the old ways and is extremely isolationist... it's a good thing he dies after a few years, because if not, there might have been only one Dwarven city left after a while.

Mostly because the alternative was a kin-slaying back stabbing scumbag who couldn't be trusted to run a cake stall at a carnival.

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...

Whatever. Video game theories are stupid. Video games are always straight forward. Next you're going to be telling me that Braid was about the atomic bomb.

I dunno.  That Space Invaders game was pretty deep.  If you hide behind your defenses for too long then you'll lose them to repeated attacks, and the aliens will overwhelm you regardless!

[Hrothdane]

I chose Harrowmont because based off what my female human saw of the two of them, Bhelen was a petulant, entitled slimeball that only cared about number one. The Casteless never even came up in conversation with Harrowmont, so I had no idea he had contempt for them. Even then, installing a purely self-interested leader with no sense of honor seems antithetical to the Warden's ultimate purpose of getting dwarven help against the Darkspawn when the Warden has nothing more binding than an ancient piece of paper. While the player might assume that Bhelen will help as much as Harrowmont, the character has no way of knowing that.

One would also think that the respected career politician that was personally selected by the previous king in preference to his own son would be a more effective ruler than said son.

If you want to metagame, Bhelen is an easy choice, as his endings are better. I just can't find a good reason to choose him without metagaming.

[Lokanaiya]

Andromidius wrote...

byne wrote...
I think Harrowmont is horrible for Orzammar. He's way too much of an isolationist.

And as you said, old.  I just wanted someone to stablise the city, and someone better to come along later.

Of course, you can't get a simple 'good' choice there.  But oh well.  Better to dash the crown on the ground and declare "Orzammar has no king" and let them kill each other in a frenzied rage.  Nobles made for poor politicians, better to each Paragons from each of the castes rule as a council.

But nope.  No choice for that.

I was actually very confused at how Dwarves acted during my Origin.  They are worse then Klingons!

Definitely. I kept expecting to see a temple to Lolth whenever I was walking around.

[byne]

Andromidius wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...
... Where did you get that? I mean, true, Harrowmont's less of a jerkass and isn't quite as manipulative, but he's also stuck in the old ways and is extremely isolationist... it's a good thing he dies after a few years, because if not, there might have been only one Dwarven city left after a while.

Mostly because the alternative was a kin-slaying back stabbing scumbag who couldn't be trusted to run a cake stall at a carnival.

The reason my dwarven noble always supports Bhelen is that she, more than really anyone else, knows how good he is at dwarven politics. His set up of you, if looked at objectively, was a brilliant move. She may hate him as a person, but she understands he is the kind of person who can get her the army she wants.

[Andromidius]

byne wrote...

The reason my dwarven noble always supports Bhelen is that she, more than really anyone else, knows how good he is at dwarven politics. His set up of you, if looked at objectively, was a brilliant move. She may hate him as a person, but she understands he is the kind of person who can get her the army she wants.

But then Dwarven politics are pretty crappy for Dwarven society.

Plus no-one messes with my Dwarf.  As that Scout knows first hand, and Frandolin Ivo knows due to the fact I never see him again (he's undoubtly hiding, along with the helm I gifted him, knowing I'll gut him on sight).

[Rifneno]

I also kind of wonder what dark secrets the dwarves have hidden and long since forgotten. It's more than a little odd that they're the only race without magic or a connection to the Fade, don't you think? Going by the Primeval Thaig, they did something unspeakable and ended up losing their connection. And their useless shaperate didn't record their unseemly acts.

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...

I also kind of wonder what dark secrets the dwarves have hidden and long since forgotten. It's more than a little odd that they're the only race without magic or a connection to the Fade, don't you think? Going by the Primeval Thaig, they did something unspeakable and ended up losing their connection. And their useless shaperate didn't record their unseemly acts.

Makes me wonder how they crafted Golems as well, without magic.

[Rifneno]

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I also kind of wonder what dark secrets the dwarves have hidden and long since forgotten. It's more than a little odd that they're the only race without magic or a connection to the Fade, don't you think? Going by the Primeval Thaig, they did something unspeakable and ended up losing their connection. And their useless shaperate didn't record their unseemly acts.

Makes me wonder how they crafted Golems as well, without magic.

And what in the name of God does this mean:

We who are forgotten, remember,
We clawed at rock until our fingers bled,
We cried out for justice, but were unheard.
Our children wept in hunger,
And so we feasted upon the gods.
Here we wait, in aeons of silence.
 We few, we profane.

[DoomsdayDevice]

What's new?

Well, this.

Shameless bump.

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Second playthrough of Omega:

Guys, there's a lot more to this than meets the eye at first glance.

The reactor scene is really foreshadowing the end:

Petrovsky: *appears as a hologram* I commend you. Your plan of attack was impeccable.
Shepard: Looks like we were expected.
Nyreen: More like "lured".
Petrovsky: I knew the reactor would be the hard target. I gave you no choice but this route.
Shepard: Why don't you do this in person, Petrovsky? Get your own hands dirty?

This first part seems to foreshadow the run to the beam. The beam was the obvious target. The Reapers lured us there, as it would be our only way onto the Citadel. We had no choice but to go through there. The last bit seems to foreshadow Harbinger not handling things directly, just sending a 'hologram' to deal with Shepard.

Petrovsky: I take no pleasure in any of this, Commander. You're the ones trying to start a war... for the glory of Aria. But now it's over.
Aria: This isn't over until your next of kin can't identify you.
Petrovsky: I love your bravado, but have the sense to know when you're beaten. You've been neutralized, and I can leave you there to rot. You might as well give up.

This part begins with a moment that is reminiscent of the catalyst denying there's a war going on. The rest seems to foreshadow Harbinger having taken out Shepard. He could just leave her/him to rot, but now he's convincing Shepard to give up, basically. At the same time, Aria saying that it isn't over until you're dead beyond identification (N7 dog tag!), seems to directly foreshadow things not being over with the breath scene. Shepard is still alive. This war isn't over.

Aria: Never! *starts to tear a hole in the Forcefield*
Shepard: Aria, what are you thinking?
Aria: I'm not going out like this!
Nyreen: Aria, don't!
Petrovsky: What the hell is she trying to do?
Aria: *continues to tear open the forcefield*
Petrovsky: Damn it, Aria, you're forcing my hand! We'll do it your way, then. *hologram disappears*
Shepard: *Dives through the hole and escapes*
Nyreen: Spirits, Aria! How did you know you could do that?
Aria: I didn't.

In this part, Aria really seems to foreshadow Shepard in the destroy ending. She will not go down without a fight, and literally starts to tear apart the fabric of what is imprisoning her. Just like Shepard attacks the illusion when shooting the tube. Then the catalyst being frustrated that his trap didn't work, and acknowledging that he is going to have to face Shepard on Shepard's terms. Shepard made an escape without knowing the escape was possible.

I love these parallels.

There's just so much more to find than there seems to be at first glance.

And for the people who have missed things over the past few weeks:

Do the 'From Ashes' Datapads reveal Bioware's entire plan for IT?

Does EDI foreshadow what actually happens to Shepard in the destroy ending?

Does 'From Ashes' completely foreshadow the return of Shepard and the continuation of the war?

For more of this dialogue-related analogy/foreshadowing/4th wall breaking stuff, visit the thread in my signature. 'The darkness will be breached.'  =)

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 04 décembre 2012 - 05:27 .

[ZerebusPrime]

*cough* off topic much? *cough* (edit: no, not you, Doomsday)

I think the next IT thread needs to have a paragraph summary before the links on the first page.

Modifié par ZerebusPrime, 04 décembre 2012 - 05:24 .

[Andromidius]

SwobyJ wrote...
Awesome! GREAT symbolism!

I'm cool with Omega now. $15 still wrong price, but I'm cool with it.

Ditto.

If they fix the bugs, all the better.

[masster blaster]

My human noble is a honest and just male.
LI Morrigan I change her attitude with either my words or other methods.
Sides with the mages ( f*** the Templars, except for the Knight Temp. He's alright.)
Sides with Caradin because I want Shell, and Ogrin can find his old flame once we get on the surface.
Harrowmont as king ( could never side with Belon because my warden has a bad experience with back stabers, and Belon a prime example)
Sides with the elfs ( except on my first playtrhough I persuaded the lady of the forest to kill all the elfs and boom)
Kill that one darkspawn in awakining.

I don't give a care that he says " we won't do this, and that again" Ya I know how you are created, and not to mention your races killed Duncan, and you crossed the point of no return line when that Hurlock killed Duncan.

Had Alistar as King
Banged Morrigan the night before the final battle.
I told Alistar that I was going to go find Morrigan, and Zevran, and my dog were going along with me to go find her.

[Rifneno]

masster blaster wrote...

I don't give a care that he says " we won't do this, and that again" Ya I know how you are created, and not to mention your races killed Duncan, and you crossed the point of no return line when that Hurlock killed Duncan.

Do you really?  The Architect wasn't just a darkspawn...