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[The Heretic of Time]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Choose Wisely Episode 3 is up for anyone interested...I would post a link but have not figured out how to from the console ...

Finally!



EDIT: You can watch previous episodes on Choose Wisely YT channel.

Thanks for this video. After watching it I'm now 100% certain that ME3 is badly written. The video proves how little BioWare cares for their own lore and consistency in their lore. It makes the "Bad Writing Theory" stronger. 

Whoever made this did a good job at showing how little sense a lot of things in ME3 make. You either need a lot of handwaving, jumping through loops and grasping at straws to make sense of it, or you can just simply admit that BioWare doesn't care about consistency in their lore and story.

[ElSuperGecko]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
...You either need a lot of handwaving, jumping through loops and grasping at straws to make sense of it, or you can just simply admit that BioWare doesn't care about consistency in their lore and story.

Amusing.  The "Bad Writing" theory is nothing but "handwaving" the efforts of the entire Mass Effect production team.  In my opinion, it's conceited, offensive and childish.

But each to their own, I guess.

[Unschuld]

 This thread hasn't been culled yet? You folks should prepare yourselves for the Arrival. The Reapers Priestly are is coming. 

[CoolioThane]

They won't close the thread until byne is online to create Mark IV

[RavenEyry]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Whoever made this did a good job at showing how little sense a lot of things in ME3 make. You either need a lot of handwaving, jumping through loops and grasping at straws to make sense of it, or you can just simply admit that BioWare doesn't care about consistency in their lore and story.

We all know your opinion on the matter. Repeating it only annoys people.

[The Heretic of Time]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
...You either need a lot of handwaving, jumping through loops and grasping at straws to make sense of it, or you can just simply admit that BioWare doesn't care about consistency in their lore and story.

Amusing.  The "Bad Writing" theory is nothing but "handwaving" the efforts of the entire Mass Effect production team.  In my opinion, it's conceited, offensive and childish.

But each to their own, I guess.

At this point you can no longer deny that the ME3 story is a big inconsistent mess. You can either try to make sense of this big inconsistent mess, but that will need A LOT of jumping through hoops and grasping at straws, or you can simply accept that for some reason BioWare f*cked up with the final part of their trilogy.

Not just the final part really. Mass Effect was already pretty damn inconsistent with ME2. The whole u-turn of the council comes to mind. At the end of ME1 they acknowledge and accept the reaper threat, but in ME2 they say "lalalalala just a geth ship lalalalala no evidence for reapers lalalalala we can't hear you Shepard lalalalala". Or how about the termal clips, that BioWare tried to explain from a lore perspective, but failed miserably?

Now that I think about it, Mass Effect has ALWAYS been an inconsistent mess. It just got worse with ME3, that's all.

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Whoever made this did a good job at showing how little sense a lot of things in ME3 make. You either need a lot of handwaving, jumping through loops and grasping at straws to make sense of it, or you can just simply admit that BioWare doesn't care about consistency in their lore and story.

We all know your opinion on the matter. Repeating it only annoys people.

Just look at that video that your IT friend made and tell me that it's just an opinion. At this point you can no longer say that it's an opinion; Mass Effect is an inconsistent mess and that's a FACT. The video of your IT friend clearly shows this. He doesn't even provide an IT handwave explanation at the end of the video. All the video does is showing what a big mess the lore of Mass Effect has become. 

[Eryri]

Unschuld wrote...

 This thread hasn't been culled yet? You folks should prepare yourselves for the Arrival. The Reapers Priestly are is coming. 

 Actually the Reapers Priestly have has retreated to Dark Space gone on Christmas Holiday already.

[RavenEyry]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
 At this point you can no longer say that it's an opinion; Mass Effect is an inconsistent mess and that's a FACT.

Just because you say that doesn't make it true because, this may come as a shock, you're not the center of the universe, with the power to divulge what is and isn't fact.

[demersel]

Ok, after watching choose wisely ep 3 I'm sold on the whole "It is Leviathan's enduced hallucination" thing. ))))

Edit: Not really. I still say that the killer is the butler - Glyph is the vilian, and the intelligence Leviathans created. :innocent: (and TIM is the mind of Derelict Reaper:whistle:) 

Modifié par demersel, 04 décembre 2012 - 03:46 .

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
 At this point you can no longer say that it's an opinion; Mass Effect is an inconsistent mess and that's a FACT.

Just because you say that doesn't make it true because, this may come as a shock, you're not the center of the universe, with the power to divulge what is and isn't fact.

I don't need to be in the center of the universe or the power to divulge what is and isn't a fact. I'm not choosing the facts here. I'm merely not sticking my head in the sand. That's the only difference between you and me. I'm just completely aware at this point of how much of an inconsistent mess Mass Effect has become. It's all thanks to that video from your IT friend. That video shows more inconsistencies that I wasn't even aware of before. At this point we can no longer deny that Mass Effect is an inconsistent mess and that's a fact.

Sorry pall, I wish it didn't have to be that way. I don't choose the facts you know. Don't blame me for the fact that Mass Effect has become an inconsistent mess.

[RavenEyry]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Sorry pall, I wish it didn't have to be that way. I don't choose the facts you know. Don't blame me for the fact that Mass Effect has become an inconsistent mess.

You clearly are because you're doing it right now.

[acidic-ph0]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Whoever made this did a good job at showing how little sense a lot of things in ME3 make. You either need a lot of handwaving, jumping through loops and grasping at straws to make sense of it, or you can just simply admit that BioWare doesn't care about consistency in their lore and story.

We all know your opinion on the matter. Repeating it only annoys people.

Just look at that video that your IT friend made and tell me that it's just an opinion. At this point you can no longer say that it's an opinion; Mass Effect is an inconsistent mess and that's a FACT. The video of your IT friend clearly shows this. He doesn't even provide an IT handwave explanation at the end of the video. All the video does is showing what a big mess the lore of Mass Effect has become. 

I kind of have to agree with Hanar a bit on this. This video says several times that when taken literaly or at face value, the decisions that the writers and devs made with ME 3 are confusing and out of place with the rest of the narative of both the ME3 and franchise as a whole. Especially the parts about QEC... that's just sloppy =/

The only way to make sense of it all is to rely on heavy symbolism, WHICH could work if perhaps the symbolism was a bit more clear. The problem I see is that much of the symbolism can be interpreted in so many different ways that they can contridict themselves... and I'm afraid that's indicative of some poor writing. 

ALL THAT BEING SAID, these videos do make some good points about indoctrination stuff too. But I wont deny the fact that at face value, Bioware has only confused and frustrated a majority of their fans and core audience with ME3. And if abstract symbolism was their ultimate goal, then I really question the reasoning of doing that at the end of a trilogy. I think we can all agree that ME3 is loaded with a lot more symbolism than ME1 or 2 combined and that ME 1 and 2 could be easily understood at face value. Doing a complete 180 with the 3rd and final game seems like a very odd choice... and I'm being kind when I say that =/

Modifié par acidic-ph0, 04 décembre 2012 - 03:51 .

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Sorry pall, I wish it didn't have to be that way. I don't choose the facts you know. Don't blame me for the fact that Mass Effect has become an inconsistent mess.

You clearly are because you're doing it right now.

Ah, so if I now say that the earth is a sphere I'm also choosing the facts? Or what if I say that evolution is a fact, I'm also choosing the facts? The creationists most certainly would say I am. But then again, the creationists are delusional.

[Sebby]

Does the IT explain how we got from the council and/or Udina recognizing the Reaper threat and preparing for war in ME1's end and then to "ah yes reapers" and fighting against filler bad guys that were never mentioned before and working with a throwaway side quest enemy that had next to no development in the previous game in ME2?

[demersel]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

If anything is badly written - it is you. With all the mistakes in your DNA it is a wonder you can even use the internet to post. 

[demersel]

Seboist wrote...

Does the IT explain how we got from the council and/or Udina recognizing the Reaper threat and preparing for war in ME1's end and then to "ah yes reapers" and fighting against filler bad guys that were never mentioned before and working with a throwaway side quest enemy that had next to no development in the previous game in ME2?

Yes it does. 

[The Heretic of Time]

acidic-ph0 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Whoever made this did a good job at showing how little sense a lot of things in ME3 make. You either need a lot of handwaving, jumping through loops and grasping at straws to make sense of it, or you can just simply admit that BioWare doesn't care about consistency in their lore and story.

We all know your opinion on the matter. Repeating it only annoys people.

Just look at that video that your IT friend made and tell me that it's just an opinion. At this point you can no longer say that it's an opinion; Mass Effect is an inconsistent mess and that's a FACT. The video of your IT friend clearly shows this. He doesn't even provide an IT handwave explanation at the end of the video. All the video does is showing what a big mess the lore of Mass Effect has become. 

I kind of have to agree with Hanar a bit on this. This video says several times that when taken literaly or at face value, the decisions that the writers and devs made with ME 3 are confusing and out of place with the rest of the narative of both the ME3 and franchise as a whole.

The only way to make sense of it all is to rely on heavy symbolism, WHICH could work if perhaps the symbolism was a bit more clear. The problem I see is that much of the symbolism can be interpreted in so many different ways that they can contridict themselves... and I'm afraid that's indicative of some poor writing. 

Not even everything the video brings up can be justified with symbolism. The dreams can, but what about the complete contradiction between ME2 and ME3 when it comes to QECs? No amount of symbolism can justify that bullcrap. BioWare completely threw their own lore out of the window with the new QECs in the revamped Normandy SR2 in ME3.

[The Heretic of Time]

demersel wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

If anything is badly written - it is you. With all the mistakes in your DNA it is a wonder you can even use the internet to post. 

Ah, so when all else fails, bring out the ad hominems and strawmen.  classic ITist behavior.

[RavenEyry]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so if I now say that the earth is a sphere I'm also choosing the facts? Or what if I say that evolution is a fact, I'm also choosing the facts? The creationists most certainly would say I am. But then again, the creationists are delusional.

Those are facts. Mass Effect 3 being a horrible mess because of the occasional unexplainable error or inconsistency is your opinion.

And implying I'm delusional does not make it so because, once again, you don't have magical powers to change reality.

[acidic-ph0]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

acidic-ph0 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Whoever made this did a good job at showing how little sense a lot of things in ME3 make. You either need a lot of handwaving, jumping through loops and grasping at straws to make sense of it, or you can just simply admit that BioWare doesn't care about consistency in their lore and story.

We all know your opinion on the matter. Repeating it only annoys people.

Just look at that video that your IT friend made and tell me that it's just an opinion. At this point you can no longer say that it's an opinion; Mass Effect is an inconsistent mess and that's a FACT. The video of your IT friend clearly shows this. He doesn't even provide an IT handwave explanation at the end of the video. All the video does is showing what a big mess the lore of Mass Effect has become. 

I kind of have to agree with Hanar a bit on this. This video says several times that when taken literaly or at face value, the decisions that the writers and devs made with ME 3 are confusing and out of place with the rest of the narative of both the ME3 and franchise as a whole.

The only way to make sense of it all is to rely on heavy symbolism, WHICH could work if perhaps the symbolism was a bit more clear. The problem I see is that much of the symbolism can be interpreted in so many different ways that they can contridict themselves... and I'm afraid that's indicative of some poor writing. 

Not even everything the video brings up can be justified with symbolism. The dreams can, but what about the complete contradiction between ME2 and ME3 when it comes to QECs? No amount of symbolism can justify that bullcrap. BioWare completely threw their own lore out of the window with the new QECs in the revamped Normandy SR2 in ME3.

Yeah, I edited my post to mention that just as you posted this... and I do completely agree with that assesment.

[acidic-ph0]

demersel wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

If anything is badly written - it is you. With all the mistakes in your DNA it is a wonder you can even use the internet to post. 

Dude, that kind of attitude accomplishes nothing =/

[RavenEyry]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Ah, so when all else fails, bring out the ad hominems and strawmen.  classic ITist behavior.

You do it all the time. Does that make you an ITist?

[Sebby]

demersel wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Does the IT explain how we got from the council and/or Udina recognizing the Reaper threat and preparing for war in ME1's end and then to "ah yes reapers" and fighting against filler bad guys that were never mentioned before and working with a throwaway side quest enemy that had next to no development in the previous game in ME2?

Yes it does. 

Pray tell, when exactly was Shep "indoctrinated"? I was under the impression it happened right before the beam in ME3's end.

[acidic-ph0]

Seboist wrote...

demersel wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Does the IT explain how we got from the council and/or Udina recognizing the Reaper threat and preparing for war in ME1's end and then to "ah yes reapers" and fighting against filler bad guys that were never mentioned before and working with a throwaway side quest enemy that had next to no development in the previous game in ME2?

Yes it does. 

Pray tell, when exactly was Shep "indoctrinated"? I was under the impression it happened right before the beam in ME3's end.

Yeah, I'm intrigued... How the Hell does IT explain that? XD